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How can god possibly exist and be true with so many ridiculous absurdities in the bible?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

"He rested."
Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

God repents. 6:6-7 

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

"I do set my bow in the cloud."
God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

etc etc etc 

Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 
dropoutEvidenceSilverishGoldNova

Comments

  • Because everyone is entitled to their own opinions and forms of worship that should be respected so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others. There is nothing wrong with believing in God or in the powers he exercised in the Bible, the likes of which in a theist's eyes were seen historically but not now. For many people God does not represent strictly what is said in the Bible and he can be an expression of every day life. For those who do believe in the Bible, I say let their interpretation of religion be. Religion is a source of comfort for many people and to know all these stories exist serves as a moral guideline that I think can be a very good thing. Of course it's not all harmonious virtue all the time but nothing is.

    This is coming from a very strict atheist. I don't believe in God or any part of the Bible, but let people be. You sound like a complete jerk in half your arguments and people would be willing to take you more seriously if you toned it down.
    SuperSith89comey_testify
  • When I became an atheist I expected to wage many heated discussions arguing, like you, how it was impossible for God to exist. It turned out that atheists were so unecessarily vicious that now I spend most of my time defending religion and people's belief in a god instead. Well done, sir.
  • @melanielust I'm sorry but I cannot possibly respond to anything you have to say. Its so worthless, trite, has nothing to do with the subject matter... I only read your first sentence and then shut it down because of that. The end. 
    PowerPikachu21SuperSith89Erfisflatm_abusteit
  • melanielustmelanielust 224 Pts
    edited June 19
    @awaketowhere
    And that's exactly why no one will ever want to debate with you. If you'd read a little further you would have seen I fully addressed your remarks.
    Peak of arrogance: dismissing without even being willing to understand.
    By the way, if there's one way to tell a man has no confidence in his argument, it's  how he dismisses the arguments of others...
    PowerPikachu21SuperSith89m_abusteit
  • Um no. It means YOU won't debate with me. But then again, I wouldn't want someone like you or anyone who has such limited and obvious stunted intelligence and edumacation levels that you have to debate me with. Your first sentence in your first post says everything I need to know because it has 0 to do with "opinions". See you didn't even read a single absurdity, not one that would NEVER take place IF god is god, before you posted your idiotic "opinion" rhetoric which has nothing to do with anything as you also tried to change the subject as well in your first sentence which didn't work either. Good night. 
    WhyTrumpSuperSith89Erfisflatm_abusteit
  • melanielustmelanielust 224 Pts
    edited June 19
    @awaketowhere

    strongly leaning towards you being a troll....?
    If not then you really need to have more of an open mind man. Live outside of your needless hatred for once.
    You can't say anything about my argument because you literally didn't read it. Why? Because you're afraid of finding a logical argument in there? Because you're too lazy to come up with a solid rebuttal? Because you find pleasure in being immature and demeaning? Are you 12? If that's how you want to handle what's supposed to be a respectful discussion, until next time.
    WhyTrumpSuperSith89comey_testify
  • @melanielust Not sure if age is relevant. I know an Anti-Theist from debate.org and he's 50 years old (according to his profile). Though "let opinions be" isn't proof of existence or a direct rebuttal, it's advice worth taking to heart. If you believe God to be evil, how are you any better in hating?
    melanielust
  • @PowerPikachu21 Oh you weren't here early enough.  aarong deleted his above comments to me.  This guy is extremely rude and hateful, believe me. His idea is that if you disagree with him, you deserve to be made fun of.  
    comey_testifymelanielustPowerPikachu21
  • So he is backwardseden. I never liked the guy, honestly.
  • @PowerPikachu21 He must have more of a reputation than I thought.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
    Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

    "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

    "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    "And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

    God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

    God repents. 6:6-7 

    "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
    How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

    Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

    "I do set my bow in the cloud."
    God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
    But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

    God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

    The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
    GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

    GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

    GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

    GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

    GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

    GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

    LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

    etc etc etc 

    Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 
    Your interpretations of a book written by men have nothing to do with God, and you are a fool for believing that science is infallible. 

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member

    Furthermore, the amount of time and energy you spend attacking the Bible and God shows your insecurities about them. That's right, I see you.
    @awaketowhere

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • dropoutdropout 36 Pts
    God does exist, and the debate should be held in a more open-minded state considering more religions like Judaism and others.
    SuperSith89
  • Please do note half the verses in his debates are not interpretations from any bible I know.  The whole plants for meat verse should be plants for food.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 20 Premium Member
    @SuperSith89

    I wouldn't worry with him too much, he's obviously trolling and doesn't deserve the attention. It's ok to stand up for your beliefs, but sometimes, like when it falls on deaf or dumb ears, you just have to let it go. I don't think anyone here agrees with anything he says, so he has zero influence, unless you give him your attention. Just let his debates fall off the page. I've proved intelligent design, and he chooses to ignore it.
    melanielustPowerPikachu21

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat He's not a troll, sadly, and I honestly pity him.  I have the joy of waking up each morning with this simple peace.  This knowledge that God has set out the day before me and I'll do my best to enjoy it that way.  This man lives every day with hatred in his heart and I just can't imagine what that is like and would rather not imagine it.  
    melanielust
  • @dropout Really? god exists? Then you go right ahead and you prove that this god of yours exists right now because no one else can. Not one person that has ever existed has ever been able to also. Open-minded. Are you serious? Your non existent god is the most closed-minded nothingness the world has ever seen. Have you ever read your bible? Clearly not. Because that's the most closed-minded diatribe ever written. 
    Erfisflat
  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @dropout
    Pointing out considering other religions? We all know there's only one unity of monotheistic people believing in one Abrahamic God that will go to heaven. Those are the people that accept Jesus as the way, that believe in his life,death and resurrection, that accept him as a messiah and many sites have stated Jesus is the only way. Even the major sinners can go to heaven as long as they are not a morally good atheist.

    https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/28794/do-people-who-commit-major-sins-after-accepting-jesus-go-to-heaven
    Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washedyou were sanctifiedyou were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11, NIV)

    There are some tough things to read and analyse in the Bible, even in the Quran or any religious text which is why I've always preferred scouting original scriptures which my christian friends' parents have connections to.

    Some are seemingly evil and questionable if we replace 'God' with 'a man':

     A man commanded Moses to talk to the rock so that water may flow.
    Moses did not follow and instead tapped the rock twice so a man banned him from ever entering Jerusalem along with most people of his nation.

    Simply God isn't a man and this way of comparative logic isn't enough to convince people to see God in a political and judgemental perspective. What are God's social qualities that separates him from a man when we were made in his image and likeness? The three omnis? I see them as debunked by free will.

    @awaketowhere
    Try to explain things in a much formal way. I've said the same things you did only to religious teachers and even though I beat them such that they were silenced, I still got in trouble, a few offences were filed, couple of unnecessary slips.  I mean they should credit me for using my logic and education to question religion but no, I even got the "I'll pray for you" from the principal! He didn't really help me calm my hormones down and so I ended up chatting formally against prayer. That's the day I learned to seperate my religious argument styles from between my classmates and people with high authority. Gladly I transferred school so only my present classmates know.

    These aren't just conversations but debates. I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and just admit that yeah in conversations I've mumbled that a few verses are absurd but certainly not in a formal discussion platform.
  • @Imbster Don't bother with awaketonowhere.  He is hateful and takes no opinion other than his own.  Even if you agree with him, he will still trash you.  It's who he is.  
    melanielust
  • SuperSith89SuperSith89 96 Pts
    edited June 21
    @Imbster Check this out for your point on free will: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/free-will-in-the-bible/

    I don't see how it disproves Him as the three omnis.  He can be all those, but still desire to give us choice over controlling us with no choice.  He can still know all, see all, and be everywhere at once.  He loves us enough to allow us to choose, because He knows that a life without choice is a poor one.  Would you rather live in this world or in one where you have no freedom to choose what to do.  That does allow for evil, but that was not God's intention.  Lucifer/the Devil corrupted the world through Adam and Eve's sin.  God told them the consequences, being spiritual and not physical death since they lost their connection to God, and He told them what not to do.  We are now allowed to be connected to God through Jesus now.    
  • @Imbster Don't tell me what to do.K? E specially when I do know a lot more about god, the bible and religion than you ever will. 
    I've been doing this for 40+ years and have talked with roughly 25,000 on this very subject. If you show intelligence and have an education then there's room  for a debate. If not and you pretend like you know what you are squawking about and thus invent excuses and profess to have a knowledge on a subject and you really don't, then you leave yourself either to be ignored or to be belittled, degraded and dehumanized as obvious as the electron painted smiley faces on rolls of t.p that SuperSith89 blatantly is and he knows it. And he has no genuine friends either. Wow does it show. 
    Getting into trouble isn't that much of a big thing because you haven't seen the worst of the worst. You have no idea what true suffering is. I could tell you some true stories that would turn your soul black. And then I would tell you all about me. You've seen nothing. Squat. Ziltch. 
    Gladly I'm happy the way I am with death right around the corner. 
  • @awaketowhere

    ....I've said repeatedly that I'm an atheist, I don't think I will ever believe in a god. Where did that confusion come from?
  • @awaketowhere- I think you're totally missing the whole point of religion.  It doesn't need to be true.  The Bible is not a textbook.  It was never intended to be, it is the error of fundamentalists that insist on the bible being true.  That doesn't mean they're right!  The fact is most religious people are not fundamentalists!  Atheism assumes that they are!   The Lord speaks in parables- these are stories intended to teach a common ethical paradigm or moral system.  You don't need factual stories to teach that.  You atheist types are all wasting our time with this intellectual masturbation! Science deals in factual discovery and religion is just a blue collar, working class way to discuss ethics and philosophy without the benefit of a college education!  You can even teach ethics to the illiterate if you do it in the context of religion.  The fact is science without religion is every bit as dangerous as religion without science.  The two are complimentary parts of the same whole.  Science teaches us HOW the universe works, religion teaches us the VALUE of the human place in the universe. These two disciplines do not oppose each other- unless you're a fundamentalist and they're such a small radical part of the religious world that everyone thinks they're nuts anyway! 
    melanielustm_abusteitImbster
  • @brainteaser Well if the Bible isn't true, then why is it you should trust what it says on human value when evolution and the big bang place us on a miniscule planet that happened by chance?  If the Bible wasn't true, what point would human value be with science?  In evolution, we used to be monkeys and happened to have a gigantic jump, but we will just be another creature some future evolution learns of.  No value there.  In creation, we are made by God and in His image.  We are given dominion over the animals and Earth.  We are also dearly loved by God through the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.  If the Bible is true, human value means something.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Anti-theists are among the most pathetic human beings on this plane. Especially the old ones. If I were still atheist, I sure wouldn't spend what little time I had left picking petty arguments about something that can't be proved or disproved empirically. Do these people have nothing better to do with what little time they have left? Why bother people about their belief system, when theirs is no more believable?
    PowerPikachu21

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • I agree with @brainteaser . I'm an atheist but find the way many other atheists act to be deplorable. All belief systems should be respected as long as those systems don't infringe upon other's rights.
  • m_abusteitm_abusteit 69 Pts
    edited June 22
    all of these claims are not as half as retarded as the other anti-science claims it makes like the earth coming before the stars which is debunked before the big bang. Creating everything in six days which is also debunked by the big bang. We were created from mud and the rib of some guy because he was lonely and wanted some action in some magical paradise before all animals in heaven  debunked by evolution. Earth is ten thousand - sixteen thousand years old and the rest of the universe is the ten thousand years and humans are even younger using the creation story in genesis and the genealogies from adam to jesus in genesis 5 and 11 and in luke and matthew first chapter. These ridicoulous young ages have obviously been debunked by dating some rocks and trees and glaciers that dat to 3.8 billion years. One tree called pando is literally 80,000 years old. How can one tree be older than the earth lol? also ridicolous flat earth and there being an edge to the earth and the earth being flat and the falling off the earth or the edge. also geocentric claims. all of this has been disproved multiple times because humans have sent rovers to mars and took pictures of earth which is not flat (sphere) and has planets between itself and the sun. What else does the bible say? oh the flood which we know did not happen because there were civilizations during noah like the Native Americans, Chinese and Mesopotamian which were flourishing at that time. These are just the tip of the iceberg my friend and they apply to almost all religions. However, most people will deny all the empirical evidence and attach to fairytales because they have become too emotionally attached to it, brainwashed since childhood, got lucky in life and need a reason for this luck or they hit a low in life and need someone when they are going thru hardships. We all know that emotions is not a rational thing to hold on to when making decisions about life and death and heaven and hell. In fact, all followers of all religions claim they have a distinct emotional attachement solely to their religion which means it is right. This obviously means they are all wrong because they all cant be right. The luck and the low in life causing them to choose gods is very ironic because they go about choosing different gods and usually the god of the people around them or the god of their culture. God is not something they could prove rationally. I am pretty sure the whole thing with religions just started as a way to control the masses because some people wanted to be rulers over other people and they saw religion as a good unifying force and that they woould be the prophet or whatever and they would have that authority as a prophet. Look at Muhammad, the guy was a dirt-poor shepherd in arabia. Suddenly at the age of 40, he decides to become a prophet, 20 years later after implementing islam by the force of the sword through violent texts calling his followers to convert others like surah 9 verse 29, Muhammmad becomes very powerful and becomes the ruler of the entire arabian peninsula and some other lands like jordan. He becames filthy rich, gets multiple wives and has multiple houses as revealed in surah 33 verse 53. That is because whatever money and booty muslims gained from war and invasions, muhammad would take an entire fifth of it to himself in Sahih al-Bukhari 3124.
  • @m_abusteit  How does the big bang debunk anything?  It's just another theory, like creation.  I also find any dating method to be ludicrous.  How in the world can you trust a system saying things are billions and millions of years old anyways?  There is way too much that could have happened to have affected what we perceive as millions of years.  God created a fully mature Earth for it to run and thus of course it looked like trees are millions of years old.  That would be the age, but God matured it like the universe with the stars.  
  • I mean God created Adam at a mature age.  Couldn't he with the Earth?  

    Genesis 1:12 "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds"

    Trees already had fruit on them in one day during creation.  

    Genesis 1:14-19 "14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times,and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

    Stars already gave light to the Earth.  Matured at creation.

    "If a scientific observer today, with no knowledge of Adam's creation, traveled back in time to Day Seven and tried to determine Adam's age (or the age of a rock, or the age of a star), how could it be done? The scientist would rely on today's human growth rates (or rates of radioactive decay, or the speed of light), and calculate how long it would take for this state of maturity to develop, and would come to a wrong conclusion." - icr.org http://www.icr.org/article/did-god-create-with-appearance-age/

    The Bible is not a science book, nor a history book, but when it refers to either it is 100% accurate.  
    Evidence
  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm ;
    Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

    "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29

    "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    "And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    Adam finally dies -- 930 years after eating from the tree of knowledge, contrary to God's false prophecy that Adam would die the day that he ate the forbidden fruit (2:17). 5:5 

    God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure 6:5 

    God repents. 6:6-7 

    "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens."
    How did Noah know which animals were "clean" and "unclean" to God? (It wasn't defined until Leviticus was written.) 7:2 

    Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11 

    "I do set my bow in the cloud."
    God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won't be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: "Oh, yeah.... That's right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I'll have to find something else to do."). 
    But rainbows are caused by the nature of light, the refractive index of water, and the shape of raindrops. There were rainbows billions of years before humans existed. 9:13

    God says, "Let us go down ..." Maybe he hasn't been talking to himself; maybe there is more than one of them up there. Well, however many there may be, they all decide to come down to confuse the builders by confounding human language and scattering them [humans] abroad. 11:7

    The Jews were God's chosen people. So why did God have them enslaved for 400 years? n15:13 

    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;
    GE 1:3-514-19 There was light ("night and day") before there was a sun. (Note: If there were no sun, there would be no night or day. Also, light from the newly created heavenly bodies seems to have reached the earth instantaneously though it now takes thousands or millions of years.)

    GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

    GE 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, buckeye pod, nightshade, oleander.)

    GE 6:5 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to flood the earth to eliminate mankind. All living things including plants, animals, women and innocent children are also exterminated. (Note: This is like burning down a house to rid it of mice.)

    GE 7:19-20 The flood covered the earth with water fifteen cubits (twenty plus feet) above the highest mountains.(Note: This would require steady, worldwide rainfall at the rate of about 6 inches per minute, 360 inches per hour, 8640 inches per day--for 40 days and nights--so as to cover the entire earth with an endless ocean 5 miles deep, thus burying 29,000 ft. Mt. Everest under 22 ft. of water. How did the author know the depth of the water? Did Noah take soundings? And where has all this water gone?)

    GE 3:14-16 God curses the serpent, Eve, and Adam for what they have done. (Note: This is inconsistent with God's omniscience; God should have known full well, ahead of time, what the outcome would be. Since God created the three as well as the Tree of Knowledge, he is ultimately responsible for the Fall.)

    LE 14:49-53 The cure for leprosy involves incantations and the blood of a bird. 

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master. 

    2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slain in a single battle. (Note: This is more than were lost in any single battle of World War II, and even exceeds the number of deaths that resulted from the dropping of the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.) 

    etc etc etc 

    Now why should anybody believe in this god of clear insanity? 

    @awaketowhere ; "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat."
    Since many plants have evolved poisons to protect against animals that would like to eat them, God's advice is more than a little reckless. Would you tell your children to go out in the garden and eat whatever plants they encounter? Of course not. But then, you are much nicer and smarter than God. 1:29 "

    Poisoned plants to eat Lol, .. and oh yeah, don't forget the air to breath, .. Chem-Trails, how could God create these airplanes that poison our air, my, my how reckless God is, right?



    @awaketowhere "He rested."
    Even God gets tired sometimes. 2:2 

    Umm, yeah, have you seen the work that went into even a simple thing like the lily we find scattered in the fields? Man cannot even create a simple apple seed, yet he knows everything that the seed is made up of, yet all man can do is turn it poisonous (GMO) to cause cancer in people.
    And don't forget that God gets jealous too, and angry, sad! He hates, and He loves, He punishes and then repents, .. and He created evil too did you know that? Now which of His creation poses all these characteristics, I give you three guesses?

    @awaketowhereCain is worried after killing Abel and says, "Every one who finds me shall slay me." This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time -- his parents! 4:14

    Who told you there were only two other people alive, .. the Pope, who worships Lucifer as his god? Lol.
    After God created Eve, what did he tell them to do?
    Now how long were they in the Garden before God introduced "time" to them, .. you know, the countdown to their death because they disobeyed God!?
    I mean if you're going to attack the Bible, don't do it from a religious perspective like the Christian Religion, do it with an understanding of the Bible. Seek, knock like I have all my life and God WILL open your eyes and give you understanding my friend! Everything you claim here is from a religious perspective, .. why do you think religion requires "blind faith" for you to be a member in good standing? Yep, because they don't have the answers, but need your money.

    @awaketowhere"And Cain knew his wife." That's nice, but where the hell did she come from? 4:17

    See what I mean? Now if you search as to how long Adam and Eve was in the Garden "before they sinned" you would understand where Cain's wife came from!?
    Genesis 5:5
    Adam was 930 years old when he died, that's counting from the time God punished them and condemned them to death. Before that, there was no aging, only maturing for children, so there could have been millions in Eden, who had to scatter outside after the fall.

    The Bible only mentions births that are significant to our History. If Adam would not have sinned, no births would of been "significant", since we would have all lived in eternity till we filled the earth. This is why only the first children born outside of the Garden is mentioned, Cain and Abel.
    What happens after we would have filled the earth with humans? I'm sure God had some awesome plan for us, maybe that New Earth and New Heaven which is still in His plan, .. well, according to the Bible anyways, right?

    NU 22:21-30 A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master.


    So God should have chosen a Raven or a parrot to wake the Prophet up with?
    If dumb birds can talk, I'm sure making a donkey talk was not too much a task for God, .. I mean He did create the donkey.
    It's shutting the donkey up that's the problem (referring to Shrek the movie lol.)





    If you want me to answer any other issues you have with the Bible, by all means by Gods grace I can. Not because I'm smart, but because I'm simple, weak, foolish, lowly and beaten, so God can make a donkey like me to talk too. Go figure why God chooses the simple fisherman and sheepherders to reveal things to, .. right??
    Erfisflat
  • @Evidence  I'd like to say you are in for a world of hurt with this dude.  He will not listen to anything.

    Now.  Some problems I saw with your arguments.  Being a Christian myself, I should point these out.  

    1: God did not create evil, the devil and we did.  He cannot have anything to do with evil.  This is confirmed when he says everything was good after each day in creation.  Him saying that wasn't just Him liking it, but affirming that evil was not created by Him.

    2:  The verse on plants being for meat is actually translated to food and the KJV is the only version that uses the word meat, though it is in the footnotes that says it is food as the true translation.  

    3: God resting does not mean He was tired.  He did not grow weary like us, but He was just done.  He was finished and went to watch as His creation went on.  This is further explained here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/why-did-god-need-to-rest-on-the-seventh-day

    I was going to counter your idea that Cain and Abel were not the first born, but I can see that as a highly viable answer.  Maybe not, but I am not a master of theology yet, though that is my major.  
  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    @Evidence  I'd like to say you are in for a world of hurt with this dude.  He will not listen to anything.

    Now.  Some problems I saw with your arguments.  Being a Christian myself, I should point these out.  

    1: God did not create evil, the devil and we did.  He cannot have anything to do with evil.  This is confirmed when he says everything was good after each day in creation.  Him saying that wasn't just Him liking it, but affirming that evil was not created by Him.

    2:  The verse on plants being for meat is actually translated to food and the KJV is the only version that uses the word meat, though it is in the footnotes that says it is food as the true translation.  

    3: God resting does not mean He was tired.  He did not grow weary like us, but He was just done.  He was finished and went to watch as His creation went on.  This is further explained here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/why-did-god-need-to-rest-on-the-seventh-day

    I was going to counter your idea that Cain and Abel were not the first born, but I can see that as a highly viable answer.  Maybe not, but I am not a master of theology yet, though that is my major.  


    Love you my dear friend, but your problem is that you, just as I have most of my life having been raised in the Christian Religion, is that we were brainwashed to see in the Bible only what our religion tells us to see.

    1. Isaiah 45:7 King James Version
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    2. Sorry, but can you show me where I mentioned 'meat' for plants? Thanks.

    3. Ah yes, thank you for pointing that out for me, "abstained" would be fine also, but I still think God rested. Just think about it for a minute, even though God doesn't have a physical body, He did get tired of us continually sinning, where He was going to destroy man altogether. If God is patient, then He must get tired too, don't you think so? Not physically as I said, but mentally, emotionally.
    We were created in His image, remember? So here is what we share with our Creator, and I don't think we could poses any extra attribute that God doesn't have!?

    His heart aches
    He gets angry
    He takes revenge
    He waits patiently
    He gets sad,
    jealous,
    hungry (for a little praise from ungrateful man, or He even enjoys the smell of an animal sacrifice that was given from a pure heart)
    He gets lonely
    His heart rejoices
    He can run out of patience, .. everything we have is from Him in whose image we were created.

    I have debated a lot of "Masters in theology" Christians with a doctorate, starting from the inventors of the Christian Religion "Catholics", to every major denomination thereof, and so far the best they could do was try to make me "agree to disagree", which I as a Believer, a Disciple of Jesus Christ could never do.

    Remember that the pagan many-god worshipping Constantine who knew nothing of the Biblical Infinite Creator created the Christian Religion, and made our Infinite God into the only thing he and the Roman population knew, into many gods, what the Christians call the Trinity-gods. The JW's make him out to be their own personal god, and Jesus a Cherubim, some winged Heavenly Creature, not who he really is; the Son of God Word.

    Theos is Greek for god, and I can assure you that the Greeks didn't mean the One True Invisible and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal Creator. Think about it my friend, what does our Infinite and Eternal Creator have to do with the gods the Greeks studied in theology (study of one or more gods)?

    Is our Creator one of the gods in theology (created gods, idols etc.)?
    No.
    God is the Creator, not of His creation.

    Is God some deity?
    The Christian gods are most definitely deities (deified men, idols, stars, ideas) who live in the supernatural realm.

    And who contacts these deities in the supernatural realm? Guess who? That's right, Christian mediums, or Diviners who got their degrees in Divination from accredited Schools of Divinity. Those in Religion who got their doctorates in divination, which you know (especially if you are going for your masters in theology) that it is an abomination to God to contact deities (demons) who rule from the supernatural realm.

    Our Infinite and Eternal Creator is One, the Only Possible One, for Infinite is borderless and timeless, so there cannot be another besides Him by definition.

    If you have an open mind (which is next to impossible to have if you belong in a religion, especially the Christian Religion), I can reveal to you our Creator.

    If there is ONE thing that I say that I cannot back up with wholesome unadulterated Scripture verses, you can deny what I said and call me a liar and a blasphemer. But I will also tell you this, that you will never find our Creator in any Greek theos/god/gods, especially not through divination from any supernatural being!

    The ONLY thing true, and does good for people in the "Christian Religion" is the Bible. Most of what the religion teach is good, and true to its original definition, but their gods are NOT the Bible God the One and Only Infinite Creator. So what did Jesus say to those billions who will come before Him:

    Mathew 7:21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    But to deify our Creator God and His dear Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into some pagan sun-god, a deity who resides in the supernatural realm who divines through Christian mediums/Diviners is the ultimate sin, it is blasphemy of the unforgivable kind against God the Holy Spirit.
    Look my dear friend:

    * God is Holy and Spirit, whose home and throne is in Heaven, and "reveals" His will/message to His chosen Disciples through revelation.

    * The Christian Religions gods are deities who reside in the supernatural realm, who divine their lies and half truth to diviners and mediums through divination.

    Look it up, it's all there in the Bible, just have to step out of Religion long enough to see it, which is what I did.

    Warning!: (better count the cost first!)
    For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

    (the cost I paid where I was excommunicated, and now hated and shunned by friends and family treated as a blasphemer):

    If any man come to me, and hate (deny) not his father, and mother (and their religion and gods), and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

    Erfisflat
  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @SuperSith89
    Job also proves God has something to do with evil. Satan can't do much without God's permission that's always the moral lesson from the book of Job
  • @Evidence  You may have taken what I said about theology way out of context.  I merely meant stuff like what Ken Hamm does on Answers in Genesis.  Otherwise, good points.  I was pointing out the meat thing because awaketonowhere is taking that way too literally.    
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Evidence  I'm glad my message about this beautiful, unmoving realm we reside on reached your mind and ears first, I'm glad to have you as a friend. It's often difficult to understand your message, but I am listening. 

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    @Evidence  You may have taken what I said about theology way out of context.  I merely meant stuff like what Ken Hamm does on Answers in Genesis.  Otherwise, good points.  I was pointing out the meat thing because awaketonowhere is taking that way too literally.    

    Yes my friend, I understand what you were doing, and I agree with you on that. But what I did was that I took this opportunity to point out something mind boggling that was revealed to me, which by the way has eternal consequences, our souls depend on this revelation, .. so please hear me out? I stake my life on what I say, just as millions have by the hands of the Christian Jesuit Warriors (burned at the stake, beheaded, tortured to death) after Constantine created his new religion!

    The Lord revealed to me (who else would do this?) that the word theology been used out of context for 1,700 years (since the invention of the Christian Religion and its gods) so what I'm praying and hoping to do is put it back in context and share it with those who study the Bible first, and then to those who, .. (because of how religion destroyed the Bibles/God and His Sons reputation) have lost any faith in the Bible, just like my dear friend @Earfisflat here has.

    Look, .. just as the Jesuits changed Gods created heaven and earth which is obviously flat, to a globe, an insignificant speck flying through the vastness of some invented 'expanding vacuum' simply by putting globes in every classroom (even in Ming China) and a science fiction fairytale to back it up, .. the Catholic/Jesuit Religion also changed our Infinite Creator (Bible God) into just another insignificant speck, a mythological idea amongst the tens of thousands of gods that are worshipped in the world!

    I know it is difficult to understand especially if you are going for your masters in theology, the last thing a Jesuit run theology college is going to do is tell you that theology, including the entire 'Christian Religions' have nothing to do with an invisible, Infinite Spirit that no one can, nor has ever seen, so people throughout the ages, that's for the past 1,700 years simply accepted Bible God as just another god that the Greeks, Romans, and the rest of the world worshipped. And I'm sure you know who is really being worshipped in the name of all those gods, right? THIS, is what I am hoping to open yours and everyone else's eyes to!

    I KNOW what they taught us, that;
    The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-theology.html

    But are they really teaching you God who is revealed in the Bible? Or "their version of" God in the Bible? Just like when children go to their science class to learn about the earth, and instead are taught the spinning Globe Earth!

    _____

    To be Continued for those interested to know who their Creator is, who they are, and what lies we been taught for 1,700 years!
  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @Evidence
    Tell me more. You're on to some religious revelation I'm not gonna hear from the popes nor bishops.
  • @Evidence I'm actually going to be studying it at a Christian college that has some very strong morals when regarding the Bible.  Not sure about their stance on the Holy Spirit, but they definitely teach the true God of the Bible there.  The people running that school have a genuine care for the students and we could feel that on visit day.  

    I 100% agree that theology has been taken out of context, but I'll be going at it in a more Apologetics route and using the knowledge to teach others.  I look forward to learning more at this college and have been praying that the money will come since I only have one scholarship left to be announced that would pay my way for one year.  
  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    PLEASE, .. please, if you have any intention to know our Creator, take another look at the god/gods they are selling us as "bible God"! From the same article from gotquestions.org

    I KNOW what they taught us, that; The word “theology” comes from two Greek words that combined mean “the study of God.” Christian theology is simply an attempt to understand God as He is revealed in the Bible.

    gotquestions.org - The study of theology, then, is nothing more than digging into God’s Word to discover what He has revealed about Himself. When we do this, we come to know Him as Creator of all things, Sustainer of all things, and Judge of all things.

    This is fine, and true, that is who our Creator God is, only we have to remember who God "created all things" by and through, .. right? And who did God create all things by and through? This is very crucial!

    Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

    So we have the Father, the Infinite and Eternal Spirit who beget/created His Son Word (John 1-) who was the "firstborn over all creation", For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

    So God created all things how? Through His Son Word correct? God is NOT his son Word, God is God.

    Now look what the Christian Religion teaches who God is (s


    gotquestions.org - The study of theology, then, is nothing more than digging into God’s Word to discover what He has revealed about Himself. When we do this, we come to know Him as Creator of all things, Sustainer of all things, and Judge of all things.
    He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end of all things. When Moses asked who was sending him to Pharaoh, God replied “I AM WHO I AM” (Exodus 3:14). The name I AM indicates personality. God has a name, even as He has given names to others. The name I AM stands for a free, purposeful, self-sufficient personality. God is not an ethereal force or a cosmic energy. He is the almighty, self-existing, self-determining Being with a mind and a will—the “personal” God who has revealed Himself to humanity through His Word, and through His Son, Jesus Christ.

    God is NOT Alpha and Omega, because Infinite Spirit/Mind is borderless/boundless, without beginning nor end, He IS Infinite. But the Son Word is Alpha and Omega, .. He IS the Beginning and the End of all Gods Creation.

    Why?

    Because God created all things through him and for him, so all creation begins with Gods Son Word, and ends, or when God creates the last thing, will be through his son Word. Look how sneakily this religion turned the Creator into the created!?

    - When Moses asked who was sending him to Pharaoh, God replied “I AM WHO I AM” (Exodus 3:14). The name I AM indicates personality

    No, "I Am" does not indicate a personality, look what 'indicates' personality:

    Personality: the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character. "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging"

    "I Am" indicates consciousness/awareness you sly Jesuit deceivers! Which makes perfect sense, because Infinite (not to be confused with infinity) is conscious, so our God is THE: "Infinite and Eternal Conscious Mind/Spirit", .. who through His Son Word, who is also a system of rules and laws how God created everything by.

    It is the year 2017, and we my friends have come to the End of all of Gods creation regarding man, the heavens and the earth, where next is Judgement.

    We have reached the fulfillment of Daniel 12:4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” where man now creates virtual worlds, with virtual people without souls of course (we have to control them), so we can now all see how God has created all things, .. through programming laws.

    Just as we are mind in a body, God created a body He used to create all things by and through, who also has His own free will, His Son Word, who is also our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

    We could never have understood this until this New computer Age, which fulfills the Last Days where no one can deny what Daniel said, that; knowledge has increased! man has now become a creator of worlds.

    Satan of course continues on his quest to: "Be like the Most High", so he is now trying to download a human mind, to a disk/memory stick so he could put a soul into a robot:


    But of course, Satan has no power over Gods Spirit, so he tries to fake it; (see the "Blue Brain Project") by mimicking a mind, which is no different than a computer chess game.

    So you see my friends, about 1,700 years ago the Christian Religion that was Created by Constantine and run by the Catholic Church took over the Bible, and reinterpreted our Infinite Creator and turned Him into just another created being, a god like any other gods. And to study godsss, they have dedicated "theology"

    Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!


    1 Corinthians 2 1-5


  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @Evidence
    so...don't believe in a priest?

  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    Imbster said:
    @Evidence
    so...don't believe in a priest?



    Lol, .. why would you ask me that? Of course I believe in Priests, as long as they do their jobs serving the Lord.
    You shall put the holy garments on Aaron, and anoint him and consecrate him, that he may minister to Me as priest.

    I would call them "Servants" in these last NT days, because now we have One High Priest Jesus Christ. So who could fill those shoes, right? We don't need Priests, or Pharisees, we have Christ!
  • @Evidence  I'm not sure what you are trying to say.  theology is not a bad thing in itself, just depends on how you study it.  I am doing Christian theology in which I want to study God's word for a living.  If you think I believe any other way and that God is not the creator of all, you are mistaken.  I think we have gotten off on the wrong foot and you are preaching to the wrong person here.
  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @Evidence
    Then to be more specific don't believe in Jesuits then? Well I have stated so because priests have propagandised everything you seem to have rejected recently concerning religious teachings and ideas.
  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    @Evidence I'm actually going to be studying it at a Christian college that has some very strong morals when regarding the Bible.  Not sure about their stance on the Holy Spirit, but they definitely teach the true God of the Bible there.  The people running that school have a genuine care for the students and we could feel that on visit day.  

    I 100% agree that theology has been taken out of context, but I'll be going at it in a more Apologetics route and using the knowledge to teach others.  I look forward to learning more at this college and have been praying that the money will come since I only have one scholarship left to be announced that would pay my way for one year.  


    Of course, for we are in the world, but not part of it. I just wanted to point out that even though we have been taught from the Bible, and most of what has been taught is good, but the Most Important is who God is and who His Son is have been hidden from us.

    I listen to preaching's on Radio, TV, anywhere and everywhere I can get it, and I have my favorite TV preachers and teachers, but unfortunately when I invite them over the house, when they have to make the decision to choose between their Religion or God (truth that I have presented to them from science or the Bible or both that they can't deny, and even admit it is so as I say) they have all chosen their Religion.

    [ Paul’s Sincerity ] For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

    that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

    that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,

    Jesus did not call us out of the world, but to be a light to the world. But it is mind boggling to me to see those I have listened to and learned so much from regarding the Bible to turn away, .. no, some even run away from the most important revelation a Believer could have, to know that the gods they have taught us over the years is NOT our Creator mentioned in the Bible.

    Like Kent Hovind for instance, I loved the guy, and learned so much from him over the years about understanding the Bible, the history, especially the powerful way he destroys Evolutionist's .. I mean I absolutely loved him.

    Well God provided an opportunity for me to talk to him about these things I reveal to you here, and three time he hung up on me. Knowing that he was building his New Dino-land, and he was asking everyone on TV and YouTube to come and help, anything would be appreciated, and when I asked if I could see him so we could talk in person, to my amazement he said: "Well, .. umm, .. you could come, but I won't be here!" .. when in fact he was there, living on the premises as the building was going on. (see dozens of YouTube videos of his Dino Land project him asking for everyone to come down)

    Now I don't know if you know Kent Hovind, but I never seen this guy back down from a Biblical debate no matter how many, or who he was against, or what the subject, yet when he heard my testimony, he literally ran from the topic, didn't say he disagreed with me, or quote Bible (which he did a few times) to show me where I was wrong, but ended the conversation like a coward. This happened three times!?

    And like I said, this happened with other TV Ministers from different denominations, same result. They had no doubt that I was right, even admit it that I was right, .. no how sad is that? Some with 40-50 years in the Ministry, on TV too, and deny God, .. to me this was so scary. But then I remembered what the Lord said to the Young Ruler, and also

    Luke 14:30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

    All those Ministers I have talked to would not even consider accepting the Biblical truth I shown them, they said they would be thrown out of the Church, or "it would split the church", .. so they denied Christ instead and chose the gods of this world over Him.

    Mark 10:
    17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

    18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”[c]

    20 And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

    21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”

    22 But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

  • @Evidence  I still have no idea what your goaal is.  I am already a firm believer and none of this is new to me.  I know religion is wrong, but a relationship with God is the only way.  I believe in just one God and not multiples, outside of the trinity which is three in one God.
  • awaketowhereawaketowhere 24 Pts
    edited June 23
    @brainteaser ;

    I’m not missing anything. Religion starts with power and then with that power comes fear and with that fear comes control of its subjects just as nearly all religions do. god, his terror and then control of his subjects is exactly that.
    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror.” Richard Dawkins and he’s 100% right.
    Oh the bible is a textbook to billions even though they never read the damn thing at the 80% level who claim themselves to be christian which is such a joke in the first place. So since this is true, and they haven’t even the slightest hints that they do not believe in this mummification processed god, then they are atheists.Period.
    Of course the bible doesn’t need to be true.  Its not a need. Its not a requirement. And its most certainly not a necessity. Yet people follow it nonetheless with tragic results. There’s no truth in faith because faith cannot be proved. You’d also have to prove every other religion wrong and false... if you are a genuine christian.
    “If you care about something is true, faith has no place. Your faith is indistinguishable from the faith of the people’s of those who disagree with you. Its not a path to truth. Faith is accepting something. Faith is gullibility. Faith is the reason, the excuse people give when they don’t have a good reason. I’m talking about how do we find a good reason. And if your only answer is ‘well the bible says so, or you just have to have faith’, then you’ve demonstrated that you are not actually concerned whether its true.” Matt Dillahunty
    Of course the bible was intended to be a textbook. Are you kidding me or anyone else for that matter? It was intended to be the ONLY book  and still is especially with god’s bloated blubbering ego. Thankfully in its quest, it failed. However, if you were to rank it among the actual textbook, even among the failed textbooks, it would never pass the first grade level point and would never be allowed in the first grade classrooms or to educate first graders because of all of its absurdities, violence, hate, wars, needless death, evils, anger, wrath, rage, fury, jealousy. Jealousy? What? From a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. And then this miserable god guy who is obviously unhappy with his own self righteous mechanical superior ego complex neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate with at least 1 billion dead on the battlefields alone since the inception of this so-called god. Great going god. Great going for those who believe in him. So really, who would ---ever--- want to believe in this god guy? No one who has half an education or intelligence.
    Now you only assume that atheists assume this and that/ Really? According to what splattering omelette minkey yodeling grunge nursery rhyme boy? You? How would you know? What grade of since you showed Popeyed eating his spinned-itch intelligence and education with your response I shall respond the same way, in you assuming where or where do you get that atheists “assume” anything? There’s absolutely no handbook nor guidebook for what atheists believe now is there? Nope. So you got shot in the groin with a knee to the foot right there.“The Lord speaks in parables-” Actually the lard speaks in idiocies that have been changed over the generations with each translation. So how does anyone determine which one is true when there’s no truth behind faith? I mean there’s millions of translations. So how is it that you narrow down to which translation has a gut shot to that insidious mouse trap of a brain to scrimmage through and thus find that one true bible? The answer is, is it doesn’t exist.
    But you are right with “stories” because that’s all the bible is is stories. Nothing more. And yet there are some out there that take these stories seriously with naturally tragic results because the bible is an evil hateful violent book.
    Don Baker “Let’s just take one quote for example “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”. That’s a quote in the bible. That’s a direct commandments from god. And hundreds of thousands of people have been killed for that quote. And its reprehensible. Its horrible. And I can think of no good reason for it. And if a god really did really write that he’s really f stupid for saying ‘hey btw, there’s no witches” Then laughter proceeds from Don. Gee. Golly. I just can’t imagine why.
    Now who says you, require, want, desire, out of necessity, need anything factual in the bible in order to stir up a commotion, war, pain, suffering especially among children, slavery, lovely rape, evil, hate bloodshed etc etc etc?
    And who says that in any way that the bible is moral? NEWSFLASH: Its not. How can it be when it delivers false hope?
    I’m not wasting my time. I personally don’t care if you read this or not. But what I do care about is a child’s knowing suffering that’s in your bible, your god freely permits it and creates it with verse after verse after verse about it. Its thoroughly disgusting and sick. But you christians think its perfectly OK.
    You theists are wasting the world’s population generations with your white man’s sweaty greasy racist male macho pig ego’s with your christian brethren nonsense who think you can interpret your bible correctly, and you do, thus you can commit horrific atrocity after atrocity and you get away with it. .
    Oh and golly gee gosh darned it all it is atheists who generally know the bible than theists.
    That’s news to me that speaking in tongues that christians have an edumacation?

  • @Evidence  Scripture backs this up that the three are one.  It doesn't take away from God being one and it shows His love even more when He was the one on the cross as Jesus.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @awaketowhere
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

    Instead of presenting valid arguments or counter-arguments, the simpleton's post is simply a "yo mama" approach. What a pathetic creation you are! I've reported you a second time now, hope it does any good this time.
    PowerPikachu21

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • Erfisflat said:
    @awaketowhere
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

    Instead of presenting valid arguments or counter-arguments, the simpleton's post is simply a "yo mama" approach. What a pathetic creation you are! I've reported you a second time now, hope it does any good this time.
    You realise you're doing exactly what you're accusing him of, right? You've just called him a simpleton and a pathetic creation. Although you've also accusing him of making an ad hominem attack, you haven't actually backed this up with argument or evidence. I don't have the interest to read through his poorly formatted wall of text so you may be correct in that he's making ad hominem attacks, but if you are you've done nothing to show you're right.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:
    @awaketowhere
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

    Instead of presenting valid arguments or counter-arguments, the simpleton's post is simply a "yo mama" approach. What a pathetic creation you are! I've reported you a second time now, hope it does any good this time.
    You realise you're doing exactly what you're accusing him of, right? You've just called him a simpleton and a pathetic creation. Although you've also accusing him of making an ad hominem attack, you haven't actually backed this up with argument or evidence. I don't have the interest to read through his poorly formatted wall of text so you may be correct in that he's making ad hominem attacks, but if you are you've done nothing to show you're right.
    one be only read a single post to see that is true

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @AlwaysCorrect How can you always be correct when you don't even know how to use a simpleton spell check. I mean you don't even know how to spell "realise". Duh. 
  • @Erfisflat Oh and btw, I have presented valid arguments. But because your mind is that of a oafing lumberjack trying to knock down something other than his own brown house, perhaps I should report you? 
  • @awaketowhere

    I'm assuming you're from the USA and unaware that you spell words differently from most of the English-speaking world. I'm from the UK and notably we will often use an 's' where you will use a 'z'. For example "Awaketowhere had the startling realization that he didn't know what he was talking about" for US English vs "Awaketowhere had the startling realisation that he didn't know what he was talking about" for British English.

    @Erfisflat

    It's not a case of who did it first. If ad hominem attacks don't have a place in a reasoned debate, then you shouldn't be using them either.

    While he does make ad hominem attacks (as you have done too), he also makes points and presents arguments with quotes from sources. That's contrary to your claim that he did not do so.

  • @AlwaysCorrect  @awaketonowhere also said I would amount to nothing and that I have no friends, and something about being slapped by a fetus.  Great guy.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 23 Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect

    I was politely warned when I was disrespectful and insulted someone, it wasn't nearly as childish and disrespectful as some of the now banned user's trash. He's been warned a few times and I was just about ready to intellectually and psychologically destroy him, if i thought he could even stay focused long enough to understand it, since I've been warned not to do so, I was trying to refrain myself. It's one thing to be an atheist, another to be a belligerent douchebag. 

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect

    By the way, what shape is the earth, and how do you know?

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    Erfisflat said:
    @AlwaysCorrect

    By the way, what shape is the earth, and how do you know?
    Take your time, I'm just testing a theory associated with your user name. 
    @AlwaysCorrect

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • edited June 24
    @Erfisflat My main in Smash Bros Wii U is Charizard, and I'm currently playing Pokken Tournament as Braixen, even though my username is PowerPikachu. Usernames don't have to mean something. Maybe AlwaysCorrect thought it was a fitting name to use for debating.
  • @PowerPikachu21  Charizard.  Pfft.  Slowbro ftw.  Snorlax close second.  Both are my patronuses.  
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat My main in Smash Bros Wii U is Charizard, and I'm currently playing Pokken Tournament as Braixen, even though my username is PowerPikachu. Usernames don't have to mean something. Maybe AlwaysCorrect thought it was a fitting name to use for debating.
    Choosing a user name after a game character is understandable, even if it isn't your "main" it's not even close to an ego trip.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @awaketowhere

    Only people garner respect, ideas do not. So please do not ask for respect for ideas, especially bad ideas like religion.

  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    @Evidence  I still have no idea what your goaal is.  I am already a firm believer and none of this is new to me.  I know religion is wrong, but a relationship with God is the only way.  I believe in just one God and not multiples, outside of the trinity which is three in one God.

    My goal is to wake up people of all religions, especially those in the Christian Religion who study the Bible and think they worship the God of the Bible, but instead worship deities, demons who reside in the supernatural realm, and ideas that make up "god" like the trinity Doctrine does, and of course idols.

    Look, who are the three "individuals" outside the Trinity Triangle? They are:

    father-god
    son-god
    spirit-god

    these three are individuals, correct? As in the father-god is NOT the sun-god who is not the spirit-god, but together they make up what?

    Look in the middle of the Trinity-explained triangle, you have the word "god", right?

    The 3 person, or personal gods make up the "idea" god. This today is what the Pope, Morgan Freeman, Billy Graham and the rest of the Christian Religions  are propagating, .. this, umm idea that: "all gods/roads/religions lead to one god".
    The Trinity was just to lead humanity away from God for the final kill, this is not even a secret anymore, the word is out; "all the world religions really worship one god", and we know who that god, that deity is, right? The god of this world, who else!?

    The Bible on the other hand reveals One Infinite God who knows everything and can do everything, including upcoming important dates. He is the One who created all things through His Son Word AKA Jesus Christ.

    Jesus admitted He does not know the Day, nor the Hour of His second coming, but only the Father knows. So obviously He is not God, unless he is a handicapped-god!? The Holy Spirit is not God either, for He too will teach us what He hears the Father say. God is not incompetent.

    Why would "religion" be wrong, .. I'm asking you? Christianity is a religion, and you say you're a Christian, no?

    A relationship with a god is one thing, billions of people are doing it, there are literally tens of thousands of gods that lead to one place, to hell. But a relationship with the One True and Only Possible Infinite and Eternal God is another story, and this is my goal to bring people to that One True and Only Possible Creator, .. the One who created us all through His Son Word AKA Jesus Christ, .. not some sun-god.
    Erfisflat
  • @Evidence

    The Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a perfect god.

    If gods are not perfect, why worship?

    Erfisflat
  • edited June 28
    A god does not need to be perfect to be worshiped. It would just need to show why we should worship. Like if demons tried to attack us, and a god destroyed them. I'd definitely worship then!

    But the Christian God hasn't done anything of the sort. Hasn't even given us a clue to curing any cancer!
    Erfisflat
  • ImbsterImbster 77 Pts
    @PowerPikachu21
    Still it's utterly prideful and aggressive for teachers to propagandise that the Abrahamic God is perfect and while other religions happily tell the weaknesses of their gods in folk lore or mythology. Well why worship Zeus with the amount of mythology?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    A god does not need to be perfect to be worshiped. It would just need to show why we should worship. Like if demons tried to attack us, and a god destroyed them. I'd definitely worship then!

    But the Christian God hasn't done anything of the sort. Hasn't even given us a clue to curing any cancer!
    Demons are in fact attacking us, by the time God destroys them, i think it'll be too late to worship Him.

    He also has given us the cure for cancer,  and everything else, this knowledge has been suppressed. 

    Question 6

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29-30&version=KJV&interface=amp

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat  layi

    "Marijuana cures cancer but this knowledge is being supressed!"

    *Posts link to government website openly talking about the benefits of marijuana in relation to cancer*

    Lol

    The truth is marijuana is beneficial in tackling the side effects and symptoms of cancer but not actually cuing cancer.
  • @Erfisflat  

    "Marijuana cures cancer but this knowledge is being supressed!"

    *Posts link to government website openly talking about the benefits of marijuana in relation to cancer*

    Lol

    The truth is marijuana is beneficial in tackling the side effects and symptoms of cancer but not actually cuing cancer.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member

    Antitumor activity

    • Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.
    • A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colonand may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.
    • A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma(liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.
    • A laboratory study of cannabidiol (CBD) in estrogen receptor positiveand estrogen receptor negative breast cancer cells showed that it caused cancer cell death while having little effect on normal breast cells. Studies in mouse models of metastatic breast cancer showed that cannabinoids may lessen the growth, number, and spread of tumors.
    • A laboratory study of cannabidiol (CBD) in human glioma cells showed that when given along with chemotherapy, CBD may make chemotherapy more effective and increase cancer cell death without harming normal cells. Studies in mouse models of cancer showed that CBD together with delta-9-THC may make chemotherapy such as temozolomide more effective.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    If, by "tackling the side effects and symptoms of cancer" you mean killing cancer cells, we're in agreement, if not, we should add "learning to read" to your bucket list.
    @AlwaysCorrect ;

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 157 Pts
    edited June 29
    Why are you linking to definitions of random words rather than linking to any evidence to support your currently baseless claims?

    Were you assuming people wouldn't actually check your links and it would look like you'd provided evidence? Or just laziness?

    Even if you had bothered to link to the studies, the evidence does not support your conclusions. The studies you refer to were provided by www.cancer.gov and the assessment provided by your own source that you provided as reliable and have just now quoted again is that they do not constitute evidence to claim that cannabis cures cancer.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 29 Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect

    Random words? Please tell me you are joking. If you needed help finding where this was quoted from, you could've just asked, instead of ignorantly assuming I pulled that information from thin air. I thought "question 6" would've explained that, it's in the q&a section of this article from the National Cancer Institute not just random words.

    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq

    And if "kills cancer cells while protecting normal cells" doesn't constitute as curing cancer, what in your opinion does?

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    The same link provided in the initial post. @AlwaysCorrect

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • Since when was Christianity the correct religion?

  • @Erfisflat

    Trouble reading? I stated in my post "The studies you refer to were provided by www.cancer.gov". The issue is you've included a load of links to basic definitions which make it look like you've supported your post with evidence when of course, you have not, because you were either too lazy to remove their formatting or you wanted it to look live you had actual evidence.

    Also "curing cancer" in my opinion meets the criteria of "curing cancer". Shocking I know! As you yourself quoted and highlighted "cannabinoids may lessen the growth, number, and spread of tumors". It DOES NOT claim to stop or reverse the growth of tumours. Thanks for providing sources which back me up and show you are wrong, though it's not a very good strategy on your part and maybe one day you want to consider actually supporting your claims with evidence :)
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    edited June 30 Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect blabbered:

    "because you were either too lazy to remove their formatting"

    Because I'm using my phone, and typing, let alone editing is quite bothersome. So, besides being about as irrelevant as your spelling of "cuing" 8 posts up, leaving the linked definitions, could've helped you figure out that reducing tumor size (the study did show cannabis was able to stop or slow tumor growth, and stated so a few times) is also irrelevant if the tumor is no longer cancerous.  :D 

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • AlwaysCorrectAlwaysCorrect 157 Pts
    edited July 1
    @Erfisflat

    Ah, resorting to criticising spelling, a sure sign that you don't have anything to refute the actual content of my argument. Funnily enough I was just replying to a post of yours where you made a noticeable typo (or just didn't know the person's name) but didn't bother to pick up on it because I could show how your entire argument was wrong.

    As for your claims here, wrong wrong and wrong.

    You claim the study showed cannabis did such and such. In fact what you linked to is not a study but a website that discuses studies. Two very different things.

    Secondly you try to make the claim that cannabis slows and stops tumour growth. The first half of the claim is incorrect, the website does not state that. It does state that it can slow tumour growth (though it does not know if ti can do so in humans) but that is irrelevant and an attempt by you to move the goalposts as you realise your argument is failing and you need to desperately grab onto something else to avoid conceding. Unless you actually think just slowing tumour growth is the same as curing cancer

    Doctor Erfisflat: "Good news, you're cured!"

    Cancer patient: "You mean I don't have cancer any more? That's wonderful!"

    Doctor Erfisflat: "No, you still have cancer."

    Cancer patient: "B-b-but it's benign now, so I don't have to worry, right?"

    Doctor Erfisflat: "No, it's actually still spreading and you're going to die soon."

    Cancer patient: "Jesus Christ, why would you tell me I'm cured?! That's not cured at all!"

    Doctor Erfisflat: "Hey, it's spreading somewhat slower. Don't get angry at me just because you can't understand my amazing logic for why this counts as cured. A random person on the internet with no evidence told me that this counts as you being cured so I believe them and furthermore it's simple to prove to with three simple experiments you can conduct yourself that will only cost you $50 and some magic beans!"
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    edited July 1 Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect said:

    "As for your claims here, wrong wrong and wrong."

    Kicking the stone now? You do realize that the ball is still in your court? You can't just dismiss my argument and source without some valid reason. Just because the article was about a group of studies, that doesn't make it any less valid. So that's a second fallacy  

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat

    The problem here is either your reading comprehension or your logic, possibly both.

    You state "You can't just dismiss my argument and source without some valid reason". However I've given a rationale for why your argument is wrong. If you disagree and don't think my reasoning is valid then defend your argument and challenge my claims, don't just whine about it. That's how debates work.

    As for the source, the source itself is okay as they go (primary sources would obviously be better) but again if you'd actually read what I'd wrote you'd see I don't have any problem with the source and the issue is your false claims that the source supports your position when it does not, with an aside calling you out on misrepresenting what the source was (I'm guessing because you haven't actually read it properly, as seems your wont). 
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @AlwaysCorrect

    Yes, I accidentally posted prematurely. As I was saying, your first point, from which you are now backpedaling from, 

    "You claim the study showed cannabis did such and such. In fact what you linked to is not a study but a website that discuses studies. Two very different things."

    Is not a relevant point. It's not a point at all. It's an already known, obvious observation. A poorly executed attempt to dismiss the source. 

    Your second attempt at a rebuttal "It does state that it can slow tumour growth (though it does not know if ti can do so in humans)" is irrelevant, as you stated, while trying to pin this strawman on me. The reason humans haven't been tested (or at least
    not publicly) is because of it's ignorant classification as a schedule 1 drug. Grants and government restrictions. 


    "Unless you actually think just slowing tumour growth is the same as curing cancer"

    The conclusion of the article is that cannabis kills cancer cells while protecting normal cells, prevents cancer, has antitumor effects, and inhibits tumor growth. If that isn't the closest thing to the cure for cancer, I challenge you to find something better. 

    The last bit, the rhetorical dialogue at the end is nonsensical and even embarrassing for you.

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • EvidenceEvidence 64 Pts
    missmedic said:

    @Evidence

    The Christian god has to many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a perfect god.

    If gods are not perfect, why worship?


    ABSOLUTELY! You hit the nail right on the head: "The Christian god has too many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes to be a perfect god.

    If gods are not perfect, why worship?" couldn't of say it better myself.

    The 'Christian god/gods' do have too many descriptive failings, contradictions and limiting attributes, and I ask every Christian to stop worshipping them, but not I, it is God Himself who commanded us to stop worshipping these weak, contradicting, made up ideas of God:

    Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:

    “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

    Not the Egyptian gods of wood, stone, silver and gold they took from Egypt, it was the One True Invisible God showing sings and wonders who brought Egypt to its knees by plagues is the God "I Am" who brought them out.

    “You shall have no other gods before Me.

    The Roman Trinity-gods start with three, and grew into tens of thousands, ..  assimilating the already existing gods that people worshipped, each Christian denomination having their own little version. Oh, and BYO (Bring Your Own gods too) is welcomed by this 1,700 year old Roman created Religion called "Christian" (not to be confused with those Believers who were called Christians/Goodie-two-shoes by the Gentile world). And to retain the godhood of Emperors, they assigned it to Popes.

    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

    Just from these simple instructions, it shouldn't be hard to figure out who the One True and Only Possible Creator God is, right? Another huge mistake we make is generalizing, or tacking God to one single identity, like the "Abrahamic God", which includes Judaism, Islam and Christianity, of which not one knows or worships the God of Abraham. Not only that, they "deny" him, each of these three religions have created very different god/gods than He who is revealed in the OT, and later fully revealed in the N.T. by Jesus.

    The Jews openly deny the God of Abraham who by the way destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, all the while the Jews are the biggest supporters of homosexuality.

    Then we have the Christian religions with all their gods, then Islam, .. definitely not the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob.

  • SylynnSylynn 66 Pts
    "How can god possibly exist and be true with so many ridiculous absurdities in the bible?"

    Simple. What if a god exists, but isn't the god of the Bible? Just because one religious text describes a particular god doesn't make it the only option. 

    Of course, I don't believe in any god, but I wanted to point out an issue with the question. It's the equivalent of asking, "how can automobiles be considered reliable if there are so many issues with the Yugo?"
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Sylynn If you don't mind me asking, what turned you atheist?

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • SylynnSylynn 66 Pts
    @Erfisflat - I spent over 30 years in Christianity. Though I was consistent with studying the Bible, I had only read through it, cover-to-cover, a few times in my life. One day I decided to make myself a better Christian and start reading the entire Bible over the course of a year and keep doing it. I also have a love for science so as I read the Bible it became difficult to make those stories fit with what we know of science. Essentially I wound up coming to the conclusion that the creation story, Adam & Eve, Noah and the flood, and the Exodus (just to name a few) were not meant to be taken literally. The issue I found is that though not everything within a book must be able literal in order for you to take it seriously, there does need to be a fair amount in there that's actually true. Let's face it, the default answer you give/get in Christianity when you start having doubts is, "you just have to have faith". The thing is, a person can believe anything based on faith - meaning it's not a reliable way of determining if something is true. At that point I realized I was no longer convinced the Bible was true and when I asked myself why I believed in a god, I couldn't find a legitimate answer. I did continue to read the Bible, but instead of reading with Christian blinders on, I read it from a critical standpoint and quickly saw just how many inaccuracies there are, and just how evil this god seems to be. It's been about 2 years since I became an atheist, and I haven't looked back.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member

    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    edited July 9
    I would love to argue any one of the points made in the OP of this thread, however, it would be absurd, even rude I think to try to address each and every one of them in a single post.  So instead I will address for now, only the first point made in the OP.  "Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 

    Most plants, most algae, and cyanobacteria perform photosynthesis
    https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=lw&ei=DjlfWJsLyOuYAcKToKgP&ved=0EKkuCAUoAQ#q=photosynthesis+and+life

    "The first photosynthetic organisms probably evolved early in the evolutionary history of life and most likely used reducing agents such as hydrogen or hydrogen sulfide, rather than water, as sources of electrons.[6] Cyanobacteria appeared later; the excess oxygen they produced contributed directly to the oxygenation of the Earth,[7] which rendered the evolution of complex life possible."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis

    Okay, so lets work with what we know.  Let's assume for the moment that our current scientific knowledge with regard to evolution and biology and genetics is true.  The science, which I have shown excerpts from, declares that the first life forms were not photosynthetic organisms, that photosynthetic organisms evolved from non-photosynthetic organisms early in life's history.  If that is the case, the light from the sun would not be necessary for life forms to come into being.  Once the sun was created, it makes perfect sense that organisms might evolve to utilize the energy coming from the sun.  So why indeed would it be absurd to think that life could not originate without the sun, when in fact it is believed by science that life did not require the sun to begin its existence here on this earth, when in fact life did begin without the sun and the photosynthetic processes that we see to day?
  • SonofasonSonofason 53 Pts
    @awaketowhere
    I would love to give an answer to each and every claimed absurdity listed in the OP of this thread.  But I don't see that as a viable option considering the extensive list of supposed absurdities that the OP claims invalidate the Bible.  I'd have to write an entire book to accomplish that.  Maybe I should, and perhaps one day I will.  Instead I will begin with the first supposed absurdity in the list:
    "Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 "

    I believe if we truly desire to give a believable and convincing explanation to this question, it is important to do so by employing the current knowledge that we have, which I personally believe ought to come from the body of knowledge that we have gathered in the name of science, specifically from the fields of biology, evolution, and genetics.  Before getting into the science, lets talk for a moment about Genesis.  The Bible tells us that all of the plants, that were made on the third day of creation, derive their being, their physiology and identity from their ancestors.  After all, "God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."
    Here we see God letting the earth bring forth, and so it may be true that on the third day, the earth was indeed bringing forth every living plant that we see today.

    Now back to the science.
    The sciences of biology, evolution and genetics tell us that "Most plants, most algae, and cyanobacteria perform photosynthesis;"
    https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=lw&ei=DjlfWJsLyOuYAcKToKgP&ved=0EKkuCAUoAQ#q=photosynthesis+and+life

    Here we see the modifying term "most" plants, and "most" algae.  Of course this is an important modifier as it implies that not all plants, and not all algae require photosynthesis.  So lets continue...

    Science tells us that, "The first photosynthetic organisms probably evolved early in the evolutionary history of life and most likely used reducing agents such as hydrogen or hydrogen sulfide, rather than water, as sources of electrons.[6] Cyanobacteria appeared later; the excess oxygen they produced contributed directly to the oxygenation of the Earth,[7] which rendered the evolution of complex life possible."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis

    Here we see the implication that the first photosynthetic organisms actually evolved from non-photosynthetic organisms.  We have already seen that not all plants and algae require photosynthesis, and the science here suggest that the first and earliest life forms did not employ photosynthesis at all. 

    If this is true, then why in the world is it absurd to think that every life form has it's beginnings in life forms that did not require photosynthesis, which evolved over time into organisms "after their own kind" that require photosynthesis?  It makes perfect sense that after the sun was created that early life forms not requiring photosynthesis evolved into similar organisms that do require photosynthesis, employing and utilizing the energy produced by the newly formed sun?  Because that is exactly what science claims happened, that non-photosynthetic organisms evolved into photosynthetic organisms, which in turn brought forth every single creature under creation?

    So why is it absurd to say that life began without the sun, when indeed life came forth from the earth without the need of a sun?
  • SylynnSylynn 66 Pts
    @Sonofason " why is it absurd to say that life began without the sun"
    It's absurd to believe the earth existed before the sun. Without stars this universe would be nothing but hydrogen and helium. It's only because of stars (more specifically the deaths of stars) that we have any elements heavier than this. 

    Erfisflat
  • Sylynn said:
    @Sonofason " why is it absurd to say that life began without the sun"
    It's absurd to believe the earth existed before the sun. Without stars this universe would be nothing but hydrogen and helium. It's only because of stars (more specifically the deaths of stars) that we have any elements heavier than this. 

    You may be right...Please show your evidence.
    Erfisflat
  • @Sonofason The problem with christians is that its not in their vocabulary to state "I don't know" whereas it is within every good and great scientist. And with that long winded speech of yours, wow you don't know. Nice guess though. 
    "The Bible tells us that all of the plants, that were made on the third day of creation, derive their being, their physiology and identity from their ancestors." No the bible doesn't tell "us" that. It might tell you that. But not us. After all, no one would agree with you except for perhaps .00001% of all christians on this planet if that and then you'd have to convince them of that. "God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." All its saying to many who read it is POOF it happened.
    See that's another problem with christians is they dig into the bible and find something that clearly isn't there. Especially when no god, if god is a god would ever communicate in text form, the worst form of communication possible so everybody gets it wrong with no updates in at least 2,000 years. 
    As far as the rest of your speech, plants require photosynthesis to survive. And 6,000 - 10,000 years ago they would have required the sun. If you don't like it then take it up with the creator of the idea, as well as hundreds of others online who also share the same idea also with hundreds of other absurdities that no god if god is a god would ever put into play, and thousands of contradictions thus making the bible unreadable, and not me. I got that from the Secular Web. Start with therm. They know a lot more than you. That's for sure. 
    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;

  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @awaketowhere

    "The problem with christians is that its not in their vocabulary to state "I don't know" whereas it is within every good and great scientist."

    I suppose you assume this guy is a scientist? 


    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

  • @Erfisflat Of course, though he doesn't. I can't remember what he calls himself? An astrophysicist I believe? But that's as good as a scientist as anybody is ever going to get. And one of the smarter, personable easy to understand ones also. 
  • @Sonofason The problem with christians is that its not in their vocabulary to state "I don't know" whereas it is within every good and great scientist. And with that long winded speech of yours, wow you don't know. Nice guess though. 
    "The Bible tells us that all of the plants, that were made on the third day of creation, derive their being, their physiology and identity from their ancestors." No the bible doesn't tell "us" that. It might tell you that. But not us. After all, no one would agree with you except for perhaps .00001% of all christians on this planet if that and then you'd have to convince them of that. "God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." All its saying to many who read it is POOF it happened.
    See that's another problem with christians is they dig into the bible and find something that clearly isn't there. Especially when no god, if god is a god would ever communicate in text form, the worst form of communication possible so everybody gets it wrong with no updates in at least 2,000 years. 
    As far as the rest of your speech, plants require photosynthesis to survive. And 6,000 - 10,000 years ago they would have required the sun. If you don't like it then take it up with the creator of the idea, as well as hundreds of others online who also share the same idea also with hundreds of other absurdities that no god if god is a god would ever put into play, and thousands of contradictions thus making the bible unreadable, and not me. I got that from the Secular Web. Start with therm. They know a lot more than you. That's for sure. 
    https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/absurd.html ;

    Not once have I said that God wrote the Bible.  The Bible was written by men.

    There are no Biblical contradictions.
  • Erfisflat said:
    @awaketowhere

    "The problem with christians is that its not in their vocabulary to state "I don't know" whereas it is within every good and great scientist."

    I suppose you assume this guy is a scientist? 


    I am the only scientist I know.
  • Sylynn said:
    @Sonofason " why is it absurd to say that life began without the sun"
    It's absurd to believe the earth existed before the sun. Without stars this universe would be nothing but hydrogen and helium. It's only because of stars (more specifically the deaths of stars) that we have any elements heavier than this. 

    Why would I believe this is true?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 262 PtsPremium Member
    Premium Member
    @Erfisflat Of course, though he doesn't. I can't remember what he calls himself? An astrophysicist I believe? But that's as good as a scientist as anybody is ever going to get. And one of the smarter, personable easy to understand ones also. 
    He's an actor portaying a pseudoscientist. 


    http://m.imdb.com/name/nm1183205/


    http:/ /youtu.be/Zj7Cw545f44

    https:/ /youtu.be/QpXSQDVqzsA


    Hubble is a plane.

    https:/ /youtu.be/SIfp0lIpyxs

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