Earth is a ball

Gooberry

SilverishGoldNova said:

@Goobery @Pouge I notice you left a fallacy on this post of mine

http://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/17124#Comment_17124

What fallacy did I use? Disagreement? This is basically a repeat of flat and stationary, where we have a couple of globers circle jerking and marking any dissenting opinions as a fallacy @Erfisflat ;

I also know that you’ve used these arguments before, and have been called out on them, and it’s been pointed out that images in your posts do not show what you say they do, and you’ve admitted this same photos you’re using here was inaccurate.

Why are you still using it again?

SilverishGoldNova

@Goobery

1.

2. Interesting how you don't mention that standing water cannot curve. I guess you agree with me.

If you understand how water works and the charateristics of a sphere, then we know that rivers must constantly flow uphill, getting higher and higher, but we know that this is completely impossible.

https://i.imgur.com/ewLBM1u.png

3. I said "Most" flights, not all of them.

4. I already showed NASA admitting to faking images. Would you like to provide me the images from other agencies?

5. Yeah, I noticed I left that out on accident. Hold on.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMJEGjMR9YUv8g6cT5mVrbOCpYi2AtKa1Ty4gFdkRsDueZHhZPWDnMZv6NFP3nXPg?key=TFQwb2ZDOVlwOTZ1MWJraThnSHI4ZjNwRDlfeWpR

6. The article is NASA literally admitting to faking images. Yes, I linked NASA admitting to faking images. I'm confused, are you claiming that NASA cannot be deceiving everyone because they admitted to deception in an article?

7. View inserted images

8. I explained if you have seen a mirage, you know it cannot possibility be a mirage. The explanation is simple, the heat from the water is creating a mirage effect.

You went way too easy on me.

Gooberry

SilverishGoldNova said:

@Goobery

1.

2. Interesting how you don't mention that standing water cannot curve. I guess you agree with me.

If you understand how water works and the charateristics of a sphere, then we know that rivers must constantly flow uphill, getting higher and higher, but we know that this is completely impossible.

https://i.imgur.com/ewLBM1u.png

3. I said "Most" flights, not all of them.

4. I already showed NASA admitting to faking images. Would you like to provide me the images from other agencies?

5. Yeah, I noticed I left that out on accident. Hold on.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMJEGjMR9YUv8g6cT5mVrbOCpYi2AtKa1Ty4gFdkRsDueZHhZPWDnMZv6NFP3nXPg?key=TFQwb2ZDOVlwOTZ1MWJraThnSHI4ZjNwRDlfeWpR

6. The article is NASA literally admitting to faking images. Yes, I linked NASA admitting to faking images. I'm confused, are you claiming that NASA cannot be deceiving everyone because they admitted to deception in an article?

7. View inserted images

8. I explained if you have seen a mirage, you know it cannot possibility be a mirage. The explanation is simple, the heat from the water is creating a mirage effect.

You went way too easy on me.

1.) isn’t an argument.

2.) we observe water to be curved: and not to be flat. This refuted your position.

3.) then you’re argument i relatively meaningless. Such flights should be impossible on a flat earth, and
goven your map of a flat earth should take twice as long. This refutes the flat earth position

4.) you showed no evidence of faking: evidence of faking would be scenarios where NASA presented an image as genuine, and it turned out not to be. You have presented mostly examples of NASA presenting images to be composite; and then you assuming this means they’re fake. No. You have to show evidence they have misrepresented or actually faked images intentionally to show something that is not true. You can’t do that.

5.) you’re imgur image shows curvature. This image is unrelated. And simply asserting that all plane windows are curved, and make a horizon look curved when it’s flat - is an assertion. 

6.) NASA literally described an image and how it was made. NASA isn’t trying to prove the earth is a sphere with its images. It’s trying to show images of the earth in a variety of contexts. If they presented the image as proof the earth was a sphere, you could have a point: in reality it appears the image is exactly what they said it is, and fakery is merely asserted by you because you are operating under the false assumption that these images are being produced to indicate the earth is a sphere.

7.) 3 images, with no conext does not prove that every single image ever taken from any type of plane that shows curvature of any form only does so because the window is curved.

8.) it is a mirage. As I pointed out: it has every property of a mirage. Given it has every property of a mirage, saying it is not a mirage is not a supportable proposition.

SilverishGoldNova

1. You brought up boats over the horizon as experimental proof that water is curved.

2. So you make no attempt at refuting what I have to say, and instead  just drop off a nuh-uh argument.

3. How exactly should these flights be impossible? Just because the flights go in a curved pattern does not automatically mean we must live on a globe. 

4. Then I guess fake is a little to harsh for you. Let me repeat: If you read the article, NASA says that for the images, they took bits of satelite data, put it on a flat map, and wrapped it around a ball. They say they have done this since 1972, when the moon landing happened and the blue marble picture was taken, which were also debunked. Ok?

5. I debated that before, and after reexamining it, I noticed the curvature and concluded it used a fish eye lense however. I C/P'd those arguments from an older debate.

6. See #4#.

7. I have noticced that the majority of images taken from airplanes showing curvature, well, have curved windows, just like in the picture I provided. If we cannot see the window or the window is curved, then I see absolutely no reason to trust it.

8. Another nuh uh. Next. Oh nevermind. @Goobery

Gooberry

Let’s focus on water for a second.

Do boats appear to drop blow the level of water if they go far enough?

Do buildings or city skylines appear to be partially below water if you move far enough away?

Do the tower pylons appear to curve over the horizon on Lake Pontecharin?

Are you disagreeing with basic observations of water?

SilverishGoldNova

Gooberry said:

Let’s focus on water for a second.

Do boats appear to drop blow the level of water if they go far enough?

Well, yes, it's called perspective. Now, there are 2 conclusions we can come up with this observation. The Earth is a globe, and this happens because of the curvature. We can also conclude that the Earth is flat and is happening due to perspective. Upon further observations, like shown in my video, we can only conclude the second one.

Do buildings or city skylines appear to be partially below water if you move far enough away?

We have already concluded that the majority of observations showing curved water, are actually caused by perspective. While the buildings might be partially hidden, assuming a globe Earth they should be completely hidden under a bulge of water.

Do the tower pylons appear to curve over the horizon on Lake Pontecharin?

Ah, you are inserting in the Lake Pontchartrain argument. 

Are you disagreeing with basic observations of water?

Gooberry

Let’s assume you’re correct.

You’re argument is that perspective makes water look not flat; right?

Gooberry

@SilverishGoldNova

We can also talk about perspective.

Please explain how perspective can make a flat surface to appear in between two people standing on that flat surface.

Erfisflat

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

Pogue

@Erfisflat
Give me some equations, models, observations, evidence, and laws of nature for a flat fake Earth

Gooberry

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

The famous ninja ocean swell, that manages to look 40 feet high and can’t be seen in the photo.

Gooberry

Pogue said:

@Erfisflat
Give me some equations, models, observations, evidence, and laws of nature for a flat fake Earth

Ask him this:

- Where is the sun?

- Use your model to calculate the position of the sun, at sunset on the equator at the equinox.

- how can you calculate how much curvature you should see in a photo. (If he doesn’t know, how can he tell we should see curvature)

- what would “curved” water look like. (If he doesn’t know, how can he tell water isn’t curved)

Pogue

@Gooberry Ok, I will. However, I have asked similar questions. Some of the answers were "you do it" or "I know it isn't ...".
@Erfisflat
Where is the sun?
Use your model to calculate the position of the sun, at sunset on the equator at the equinox.
How can you calculate how much curvature you should see in a photo? 
What would “curved” water look like?

WilliamSchulz

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

However, if there is no swell, it must mean the Earth is flat.

Erfisflat

WilliamSchulz said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

However, if there is no swell, it must mean the Earth is flat.

There are always swells, and the earth is flat.

Ampersand

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

Wow, it's amazing how 'In every measurable circumstance water will be flat and level in its container' turns to 'No, obviously there is curvature orders of magnitude more significant than would be seen in a spherical earth (e.g. amount of curvature per metre) because it's now convenient for me to claim this'.

Also anyone else notice how he dropped his argument about how things drop because of pressure rather than gravity once he had to start changing it as it was becoming clear it quickly would have lead to him having to accept the theory of gravity?

WilliamSchulz

Erfisflat said:

WilliamSchulz said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

However, if there is no swell, it must mean the Earth is flat.

There are always swells, and the earth is flat.

But in no particular instance are there swells that are 60 feet high in the middle of a lake of all places! In meteorology, swells take place after a hurricane hits because of the low pressure in the system and the waves that bash the shore, the most dangerous part is the swell afterwards, which can cause even more damage, but that swell hits the shore, it doesn't just appear at random in any place. A storm, system, or earthquake has to cause it, and from the photo, there is nothing to show that there is swelling except for a sunrise in foggy weather.

Pogue

Round Earth

Erfisflat

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Gooberry

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Let’s focus on water for a second.

Do boats appear to drop blow the level of water if they go far enough?

Well, yes, it's called perspective. Now, there are 2 conclusions we can come up with this observation. The Earth is a globe, and this happens because of the curvature. We can also conclude that the Earth is flat and is happening due to perspective. Upon further observations, like shown in my video, we can only conclude the second one.

Do buildings or city skylines appear to be partially below water if you move far enough away?

We have already concluded that the majority of observations showing curved water, are actually caused by perspective. While the buildings might be partially hidden, assuming a globe Earth they should be completely hidden under a bulge of water.

Do the tower pylons appear to curve over the horizon on Lake Pontecharin?

Ah, you are inserting in the Lake Pontchartrain argument. 

Are you disagreeing with basic observations of water?

So as you haven’t replied: let me hammer home the point.

You’re first argument is that water Is observed to be flat. You’re arguments in your last set of replies is that the reason water is observed to be curved is due to perspective. 

Note: The second part by definition refutes the first. You can’t make both arguments without implicitly contradicting yourself, and you don’t seem to appreciate that you have literally proved your own point wrong in your reply.

Water can’t both never appear curved, and appear to be curved because if perspective.

You may feel you have an explanation of why water appears and is observed to be curved: but that doesn’t mean the observation doesn’t exist, and that you can’t pretend that it does.

Given how ubiquitous these measurements are; boats, horizons, buildings, sunsets: when you sat down and wrote your first argument, you MUST have been aware of these observations. 

As a result, knowing there are observations of the water being curved; and yet pretending as if they do not exist either shows your argument intentionally omitted material facts in order to misrepresent the strength of your position: or you do not understand how science works: you cannot simply say an inconvenient observation doesn’t exist because you feel you can explain it.

Now: here is the problem with your argument 1. You’re misrepresenting your position: your argument “Water is always observed to be flat” SHOULD be rephrased as “water regularly observed to be curved, but I have an explanation of why it looks curved when actually it’s flat”.

Rephrasing the argument you wrote with the argument you’re actually making; it should really drive home how your argument, is actually using this misstatement to make your argument sound WAY stronger than it is; and at best misleading people into think you’re making an argument you are not.

You should be relying on science, observations, logic and reason to make your argument appear strong: not on misrepresenting what your argument actually is.

So; given this: let’s move on to the argument you actually seem to be making: that every observation of curved water being down to perspective.

This is a bogus argument and one that is easily refuted and never actually mathematically explained by you or anyone: despite it being an argument from geometry. 

It’s simply refuted like this:

Parallel lines NEVER meet.

If water is flat, and you are 100 feet above sea level: then a line between you and any position 100ft above sea level is parallel with the waterline.

These lines can never meet by definition: they are parallel. If these lines can’t meet, and are always 100ft separating them; then there is no point where the water is at or above that line between you and the object being observed, and therefore it i not possible for that water to obscure the object.

Your argument from perspective falls apart. Because any trivial analysis of perspective shows it can’t do what you say it can.

Ampersand

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

WilliamSchulz

Guys, I have been noticing this, don't spam fallacy @Erfisflat. If we are to persuade him, we can't attack his arguments to death. This is turning into a circular reasoning argument in which we say "I'm right," "No I'm right!" Everything is posted for a reason, instead of attacking the pictures, ask why the pictures were posted. My arguments revolve around questioning pictures and out of place statement, not tallying a fallacy count in the hopes for some likes. Erf has been very good with tolerating your fallacy count on most of his posts, but it is time for it to stop. Just because we disagree does not mean we close our ears to reasoning. Just press the informative button and leave be. Thanks!

Gooberry

WilliamSchulz said:

Guys, I have been noticing this, don't spam fallacy @Erfisflat. If we are to persuade him, we can't attack his arguments to death. This is turning into a circular reasoning argument in which we say "I'm right," "No I'm right!" Everything is posted for a reason, instead of attacking the pictures, ask why the pictures were posted. My arguments revolve around questioning pictures and out of place statement, not tallying a fallacy count in the hopes for some likes. Erf has been very good with tolerating your fallacy count on most of his posts, but it is time for it to stop. Just because we disagree does not mean we close our ears to reasoning. Just press the informative button and leave be. Thanks!

Unfortunately this is a debate site. Attacking arguments is mostly the point. 

If if someone is perpetually dishonest, repeatedly saying things that are factually untrue, and repeatedly engaging in core fallacies to dismiss everything anyone says: there’s really not much else you can do but repeatedly call them on their lies and fallacies.

If you feel that I wasn’t accurate in any one of the examples I called him on, feel free to point it out: but I’m pretty sure they’re all accurate, with a justification for each one.

If you object; feel free to ask yourself how on earth it’s possibke to objectively hold a conversation, argue or convince someone who is willing to make 66 untrue statements, and make 35 large individual logical fallacies over 3 posts.

Gooberry

WilliamSchulz said:

Guys, I have been noticing this, don't spam fallacy @Erfisflat. If we are to persuade him, we can't attack his arguments to death. This is turning into a circular reasoning argument in which we say "I'm right," "No I'm right!" Everything is posted for a reason, instead of attacking the pictures, ask why the pictures were posted. My arguments revolve around questioning pictures and out of place statement, not tallying a fallacy count in the hopes for some likes. Erf has been very good with tolerating your fallacy count on most of his posts, but it is time for it to stop. Just because we disagree does not mean we close our ears to reasoning. Just press the informative button and leave be. Thanks!

Unfortunately this is a debate site. Attacking arguments is mostly the point. 

If if someone is perpetually dishonest, repeatedly saying things that are factually untrue, and repeatedly engaging in core fallacies to dismiss everything anyone says: there’s really not much else you can do but repeatedly call them on their lies and fallacies.

If you feel that I wasn’t accurate in any one of the examples I called him on, feel free to point it out: but I’m pretty sure they’re all accurate, with a justification for each one.

If you object; feel free to ask yourself how on earth it’s possibke to objectively hold a conversation, argue or convince someone who is willing to make 66 untrue statements, and make 35 large individual logical fallacies over 3 posts.

Gooberry

@WilliamSchulz

I would also like to offer this nugget of wisdom, it may help get you up to speed:

If it were possible to logically reason with flat earthers: there wouldn’t be any flat earthers.

Erfisflat

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Gooberry

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Erfisflat

WilliamSchulz said:

Guys, I have been noticing this, don't spam fallacy @Erfisflat. If we are to persuade him, we can't attack his arguments to death. This is turning into a circular reasoning argument in which we say "I'm right," "No I'm right!" Everything is posted for a reason, instead of attacking the pictures, ask why the pictures were posted. My arguments revolve around questioning pictures and out of place statement, not tallying a fallacy count in the hopes for some likes. Erf has been very good with tolerating your fallacy count on most of his posts, but it is time for it to stop. Just because we disagree does not mean we close our ears to reasoning. Just press the informative button and leave be. Thanks!

http://ifers.123.st/t38-flat-earth-shill-wall-of-shame

They aren't fooling me.

Erfisflat

WilliamSchulz said:

Erfisflat said:

WilliamSchulz said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

If everything we use for a round Earth is false, please provide your own equations, laws of nature, observations, and full models. Yes, curvature does exist. 
If you rise to a higher elevation more of Earth becomes visible. 

Has never heard of a swell in the ocean

However, if there is no swell, it must mean the Earth is flat.

There are always swells, and the earth is flat.

But in no particular instance are there swells that are 60 feet high in the middle of a lake of all places! In meteorology, swells take place after a hurricane hits because of the low pressure in the system and the waves that bash the shore, the most dangerous part is the swell afterwards, which can cause even more damage, but that swell hits the shore, it doesn't just appear at random in any place. A storm, system, or earthquake has to cause it, and from the photo, there is nothing to show that there is swelling except for a sunrise in foggy weather.

You do realize with perspective, a 60 foot swell isn't needed to hide 60 feet. But there are swells.
https://magicseaweed.com/Great-Lakes-Surf-Forecast/81/

Erfisflat

 @SilverishGoldNova who is this?

SilverishGoldNova

Erfisflat said:

 @SilverishGoldNova who is this?

Every glober we have tried to debate. Especially Coveny and Wake.

I started a debate with a glober and I am working on my arguments, I also entered in the DebateIsland tournament so uh...

SilverishGoldNova

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

Ampersand

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

So yesterday the boat over the horizon image was due to a large camouflaged 60ft swell. Now you say it's impossible.

When you flip flop between these equally baseless claims it just shows how every argument you make is pulled out of your .

At least you concede that the boat going over the horizon would be impossible on a flat earth. As we know from thousands of years of observation and modern photos and videos, boats do go over the horizon. Ergo the earth is not flat.

Gooberry

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

FYI: as you seemed to have missed this, I will repost.

So as you haven’t replied: let me hammer home the point.

You’re first argument is that water Is observed to be flat. You’re arguments in your last set of replies is that the reason water is observed to be curved is due to perspective. 

Note: The second part by definition refutes the first. You can’t make both arguments without implicitly contradicting yourself, and you don’t seem to appreciate that you have literally proved your own point wrong in your reply.

Water can’t both never appear curved, and appear to be curved because if perspective.

You may feel you have an explanation of why water appears and is observed to be curved: but that doesn’t mean the observation doesn’t exist, and that you can’t pretend that it does.

Given how ubiquitous these measurements are; boats, horizons, buildings, sunsets: when you sat down and wrote your first argument, you MUST have been aware of these observations. 

As a result, knowing there are observations of the water being curved; and yet pretending as if they do not exist either shows your argument intentionally omitted material facts in order to misrepresent the strength of your position: or you do not understand how science works: you cannot simply say an inconvenient observation doesn’t exist because you feel you can explain it.

Now: here is the problem with your argument 1. You’re misrepresenting your position: your argument “Water is always observed to be flat” SHOULD be rephrased as “water regularly observed to be curved, but I have an explanation of why it looks curved when actually it’s flat”.

Rephrasing the argument you wrote with the argument you’re actually making; it should really drive home how your argument, is actually using this misstatement to make your argument sound WAY stronger than it is; and at best misleading people into think you’re making an argument you are not.

You should be relying on science, observations, logic and reason to make your argument appear strong: not on misrepresenting what your argument actually is.

So; given this: let’s move on to the argument you actually seem to be making: that every observation of curved water being down to perspective.

This is a bogus argument and one that is easily refuted and never actually mathematically explained by you or anyone: despite it being an argument from geometry. 

It’s simply refuted like this:

Parallel lines NEVER meet.

If water is flat, and you are 100 feet above sea level: then a line between you and any position 100ft above sea level is parallel with the waterline.

These lines can never meet by definition: they are parallel. If these lines can’t meet, and are always 100ft separating them; then there is no point where the water is at or above that line between you and the object being observed, and therefore it i not possible for that water to obscure the object.

Your argument from perspective falls apart. Because any trivial analysis of perspective shows it can’t do what you say it can.

Pogue

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

False, the moon landings have overwhelming evidence to support they were real. It would have been impossible to fake it. In the moon landings were fake debate, @Erisisflat only source said the moon landings were real. Using just your eyes and how you feel is the only way to verify the flat fake Earth. Math and observations prove the round Earth. We live on a spinning spherical planet. Also, how is the Earth the only falt planet? Everything is round, but the Earth is flat. How? Why?

Erfisflat

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

So yesterday the boat over the horizon image was due to a large camouflaged 60ft swell. Now you say it's impossible.

When you flip flop between these equally baseless claims it just shows how every argument you make is pulled out of your .

At least you concede that the boat going over the horizon would be impossible on a flat earth. As we know from thousands of years of observation and modern photos and videos, boats do go over the horizon. Ergo the earth is not flat.

Ya, that was sarcasm. As if the words pitiful arguments like... didn't give a hint.

Pogue

@Erfisflat
Please give calculations, models, and observations for the flat fake Earth

Erfisflat

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

You can have it. Just so long as everyone keep in mind that we are still working on and haven t completely agreed on a full model yet. Your research and mine aren't exactly in line with each other. We both have common sense to admit the earth is flat though

Pogue

Erfisflat said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

You can have it. Just so long as everyone keep in mind that we are still working on and haven t completely agreed on a full model yet. Your research and mine aren't exactly in line with each other. We both have common sense to admit the earth is flat though

What research? Who are/were your best astronomers? Also, why do you think every government on Earth is trying to deceive us? Why create entire fields of science? You said money, power before. However, how do they gain money and power because of it? What are the flat Earth communities' top five accomplishments? No wonder why there is not a full model. Also, why have civilizations been propagating the same thing for a millennium? 

Erfisflat

Pogue said:

Erfisflat said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

You can have it. Just so long as everyone keep in mind that we are still working on and haven t completely agreed on a full model yet. Your research and mine aren't exactly in line with each other. We both have common sense to admit the earth is flat though

What research? Who are/were your best astronomers? Also, why do you think every government on Earth is trying to deceive us? Why create entire fields of science? You said money, power before. However, how do they gain money and power because of it? What are the flat Earth communities' top five accomplishments? No wonder why there is not a full model. Also, why have civilizations been propagating the same thing for a millennium? 

It's actually a good time for @SilverishGoldNova to take the podium for a minute, been working, helping the in-laws in a short notice move, and having a birthday party in my honor Saturday, hopefully he can help you with your multitude of questions. The best way to research anything related is to Google but put flat earth included somewhere. Weigh the evidence and try to make an informed decision yourself. You have come into this debate with the false assumption that the earth is a ball. If you can consider a flat and stationary earth, the answer becomes clear and obvious.

Erfisflat

Actually flagging every post either of us make as fallacious? Of course he would. 

Pogue

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Erfisflat said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

You can have it. Just so long as everyone keep in mind that we are still working on and haven t completely agreed on a full model yet. Your research and mine aren't exactly in line with each other. We both have common sense to admit the earth is flat though

What research? Who are/were your best astronomers? Also, why do you think every government on Earth is trying to deceive us? Why create entire fields of science? You said money, power before. However, how do they gain money and power because of it? What are the flat Earth communities' top five accomplishments? No wonder why there is not a full model. Also, why have civilizations been propagating the same thing for a millennium? 

It's actually a good time for @SilverishGoldNova to take the podium for a minute, been working, helping the in-laws in a short notice move, and having a birthday party in my honor Saturday, hopefully he can help you with your multitude of questions. The best way to research anything related is to Google but put flat earth included somewhere. Weigh the evidence and try to make an informed decision yourself. You have come into this debate with the false assumption that the earth is a ball. If you can consider a flat and stationary earth, the answer becomes clear and obvious.

So I am supposed to research it when this is a debate. You are supposed to convince me! Where is the proper evidence that convinced you? Also, that quote applies to me. I have thought about a flat fake Earth. However, it has been proven to me to be completely fake. 

Erfisflat said:

Actually flagging every post either of us make as fallacious? Of course he would. 

What is that supposed to mean? That seems incoherent. 

Pogue

Pogue said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Erfisflat said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

You can have it. Just so long as everyone keep in mind that we are still working on and haven t completely agreed on a full model yet. Your research and mine aren't exactly in line with each other. We both have common sense to admit the earth is flat though

What research? Who are/were your best astronomers? Also, why do you think every government on Earth is trying to deceive us? Why create entire fields of science? You said money, power before. However, how do they gain money and power because of it? What are the flat Earth communities' top five accomplishments? No wonder why there is not a full model. Also, why have civilizations been propagating the same thing for a millennium? 

It's actually a good time for @SilverishGoldNova to take the podium for a minute, been working, helping the in-laws in a short notice move, and having a birthday party in my honor Saturday, hopefully he can help you with your multitude of questions. The best way to research anything related is to Google but put flat earth included somewhere. Weigh the evidence and try to make an informed decision yourself. You have come into this debate with the false assumption that the earth is a ball. If you can consider a flat and stationary earth, the answer becomes clear and obvious.

So I am supposed to research it when this is a debate. You are supposed to convince me! Where is the proper evidence that convinced you? Also, that quote applies to me. I have thought about a flat fake Earth. However, it has been proven to me to be completely fake. 

Erfisflat said:

Actually flagging every post either of us make as fallacious? Of course he would. 

What is that supposed to mean? That seems incoherent. 

You also seem to be ignoring and trying to change the topic. 

SilverishGoldNova

Any questions? Pogue said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

False, the moon landings have overwhelming evidence to support they were real. It would have been impossible to fake it. In the moon landings were fake debate, @Erisisflat only source said the moon landings were real. Using just your eyes and how you feel is the only way to verify the flat fake Earth. Math and observations prove the round Earth. We live on a spinning spherical planet. Also, how is the Earth the only falt planet? Everything is round, but the Earth is flat. How? Why?

Just a quick video.

SilverishGoldNova

@Pouge I guess I can take the podium. Any questions?

SilverishGoldNova

Erfisflat said:

Actually flagging every post either of us make as fallacious? Of course he would. 

Yeah it doesn't look like they're debating too much anymore, just asserting that we're wrong, circle jerking, and marking everything we post as a fallacy. *Sudden flashbacks of DDO and the flat/stationary thread*. 

Pogue

SilverishGoldNova said:

Any questions? Pogue said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

False, the moon landings have overwhelming evidence to support they were real. It would have been impossible to fake it. In the moon landings were fake debate, @Erisisflat only source said the moon landings were real. Using just your eyes and how you feel is the only way to verify the flat fake Earth. Math and observations prove the round Earth. We live on a spinning spherical planet. Also, how is the Earth the only falt planet? Everything is round, but the Earth is flat. How? Why?

Just a quick video.

Russia has excepted that the US got to the moon! Multiple governments have stated they independently picked up the US going to the moon. The beginning of the video destroys the entire argument. It would have been impossible to fake it anyway (at the time). 
Just a quick video: 

LibertineStates

@Erfisflat And you flagging every post as Funny is no different.

Pot meet kettle.

SilverishGoldNova

Pogue said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Any questions? Pogue said:

SilverishGoldNova said:

Gooberry said:

Erfisflat said:

Ampersand said:

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Erfisflat said:

Pogue said:

Round Earth

Thanks for these pictures of a man in a Sasquatch costume, a small unidentifiable object causing ripples and Steven Spielberg sitting in front of an animatronic dinosaur but they don't help your argument. 

Similar to how we know from all the evidence and witnesses and common sense that animatronic dinosaurs were used in the shooting of Jurassic Park and the photo adds a tiny bit more proof to this theory, the photos of a round earth are yet more proof of a very very obvious fact.

Pitiful evidence like boats over horizons and sunsets. Which are absolutely impossible on a flat plane. Right, carry on amongst yourselves.

Well... yeah. They actually are...

Well, as I demonstrated earlier, boats over the horizon is due to perspective and Infact, it actually disproves curvature over a long distance meaning that it is not proof of a globe, but rather, some easy flat Earth proof.

For sunsets: 

@Erfisflat Can I replace you as the main debater for a little bit? 

Also, the first Earth image is from the moon landings. Those have been proven to be fake.

The second image is literaly a composite . Unless the Earth has large grey spiral lines all around it.

As for the third, well, you do know we don't usually trust unverifiable imagery. But there are a number of easy experiments you can do for yourself that prove the Earth is flat, for example, long distance curvature tests.

Kinda like the refuted-many-times sticks and shadows experiment, except, I am yet to see a rebuttal.

False, the moon landings have overwhelming evidence to support they were real. It would have been impossible to fake it. In the moon landings were fake debate, @Erisisflat only source said the moon landings were real. Using just your eyes and how you feel is the only way to verify the flat fake Earth. Math and observations prove the round Earth. We live on a spinning spherical planet. Also, how is the Earth the only falt planet? Everything is round, but the Earth is flat. How? Why?

Just a quick video.

Russia has excepted that the US got to the moon! Multiple governments have stated they independently picked up the US going to the moon. The beginning of the video destroys the entire argument. It would have been impossible to fake it anyway (at the time). 
Just a quick video: 

I'll watch it.

Erfisflat

LibertineStates said:

@Erfisflat And you flagging every post as Funny is no different.

Pot meet kettle.

Funny is bad to you?