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Man-made Climate Change is real
in Science

By PoguePogue 532 Pts edited February 4
Man-made climate change is real. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal." This graph based on the comparison of atmospheric samples contained in ice cores and more recent direct  measurements provides evidence that atmospheric CO2 has increased  since the Industrial Revolution  Source LINKhttpwwwncdcnoaagovpaleoicecoreNOAA
There is direct evidence that humans are the main cause of the rise of atmospheric Co2.
 
Climate change is real because of global temperature rise, warming oceans, shrinking ice sheets, glacial retreat, decreased snow cover, sea level rise, declining Arctic ice, extreme events. and ocean acidification.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
https://skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm

natbaronsMax_Air29BaconToesWhyTrumpEmeryPearsonErfisflatZombieguy1987
  1. Man-made Climate is real?

    24 votes
    1. No
      50.00%
    2. Yes
      50.00%
I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

I friended myself! 
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Arguments

  • Humans did not pollute the climate or change the climate.

    The Earth’s climate changes over time during period.
    BaconToesDrCerealEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    edited February 3
    natbarons said:
    Humans did not pollute the climate or change the climate.

    The Earth’s climate changes over time during period.
    Yes, it does. However, the rate of change is too rapid. Also, we know it is humans becasue
    1. Simple chemistry that when we burn carbon-based materials, carbon dioxide (CO2) is emitted (research beginning in the 1900s)
    2. Basic accounting of what we burn, and therefore how much CO2we emit (data collection beginning in the 1970s)
    3. Measuring CO2 in the atmosphere and trapped in ice to find that it is indeed increasing and that the levels are higher than anything we've seen in hundreds of thousands of years  (measurements beginning in the 1950s)
    4. Chemical analysis of the atmospheric CO2 that reveals the increase is coming from burning fossil fuels (research beginning in the 1950s)
    5. Basic physics that shows us that CO2 absorbs heat (research beginning in the 1820s)
    6. Monitoring climate conditions to find that recent warming of the Earth is correlated to and follows rising CO2 emissions (research beginning in the 1930s)
    7. Ruling out natural factors that can influence climate like the Sun and ocean cycles (research beginning in the 1830s)
    8. Employing computer models to run experiments of natural vs. human-influenced “simulated Earths” (research beginning in the 1960s)
    9. Consensus among scientists that consider all previous lines of evidence and make their own conclusions (polling beginning in the 1990s)
    "In fact, we are statistically more confident that humans cause climate change than that smoking causes cancer."

    http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2017/03/23/how-do-we-know-that-humans-are-causing-climate-change-these-nine-lines-of-evidence/
    https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-know-humans-triggered-climate-change ;
    BaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearsonWordsMattercheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Human influence on the Earth's climate, is simply part of a natural evolutionary process. 

    We are of this Earth.

    And our actions are of this Earth.

    Therefore our actions and their effects on the Earth's climate are natural processes.
    PogueBaconToesEmeryPearsonWordsMattercheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    Human influence on the Earth's climate, is simply part of a natural evolutionary process. 

    We are of this Earth.

    And our actions are of this Earth.

    Therefore our actions and their effects on the Earth's climate are natural processes.
    No, humans are causing it and it is not Earth's natural change in climate. You committed two fallacies. A false clause and an appeal to nature fallacy.  
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    I'll try this in order.

    1. Climate change is real because of Global temperature rise.

    Response: The rising or lowering of Global temperatures is not an indicator that Mankind has done something to cause it.  All Scientific research and study regarding the history of the Earth's climate supports that the Earth has gone in and out of Ice ages and that same research supports the theory that the temperature of the Earth is in flux...always.

    2. Warming oceans.

    Response: Since the temperature of the Earth is in flux, so is the temperature of its Oceans.  If we transition into another Ice age...the Oceans freeze.

    3. Shrinking Ice Sheets, glacial retreat, reduced snow coverage, declining arctic ice.

    Response: Again, the Earth's temperature is in flux, there is more Ice during Ice Ages and less when we're not in an Ice Age.  

    4. Extreme Events.

    Response: If I understand you correctly, your argument on this is that extreme events are happening therefor it must be Man made.  I'm afraid I have no reference to what events you're talking about though.

    5. Ocean acidification.

    Response: I'm afraid that the pH zone of the World's Ocean's is between 7.5 and 8.3, well above the acid zone.  Depending on who's research you use, you can say that the world's oceans may not be as alkaline as thy once were...but to use the term Acidify...implies something completely different.  This isn't some semantics argument either, Scientists that are responsible for this term know good and well that there is no such acidification happening but use the term anyhow as a means of creating dogma surrounding their claim.  

    Think of it like this, if you're sitting in front of a camp fire and you decide that it's too hot and use a stick to spread out the wood and stifle the flames somewhat...are you in the process of freezing out the camp fire?  No of course not.  This is the same thing as insisting that because the oceans aren't as alkaline as they once were, that it's a process of acidifying the ocean and it's caused by Mankind.  If you add a tiny amount of water to acid, is this a process of alkalinization of acid?  No, the acid is just becoming less acidic.  But I could easily draw a disproportionate amount of attention to something by overstating and misrepresenting the process to be something far worse than it actually is.

    And that's politics in a nutshell folks.
    BaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearsonWordsMattercheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @Vaulk
    The temperature of the Earth has been changing throughout its 4,000,000,000 year history but the change has not been so rapid. I got the evidence from NASA (https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/). 
    5. "Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the acidity of surface ocean waters has increased by about 30 percent.11,12 This increase is the result of humans emitting more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and hence more being absorbed into the oceans. The amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the upper layer of the oceans is increasing by about 2 billion tons per year.13,14"


    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
    This shows the models for global temperature. Blue with natural ((what it would be with natural forces) ie sun (been dimming), volcanoes (not enough CO2 for this high temperature), etc), Red with human and natural, and Black for observation. The man-made model closely matches the observations. 

    "If we add more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, the effect is like wrapping yourself in a thicker blanket: even less heat is lost. So how can we tell what effect CO2 is having on temperatures and if the increase in atmospheric CO2 is really making the planet warmer?

    One way of measuring the effect of CO2 is by using satellites to compare how much energy is arriving from the sun, and how much is leaving the Earth. What scientists have seen over the last few decades is a gradual decrease in the amount of energy being re-radiated back into space. In the same period, the amount of energy arriving from the sun has not changed very much at all. This is the first piece of evidence: more energy is remaining in the atmosphere." https://skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm

    The 3% of scientific papers that say climate change is not real or man-made is, according to Katharine Hayhoe, an atmospheric scientist at Texas Tech University, "Every single one of those analyses had an error—in their assumptions, methodology, or analysis—that, when corrected, brought their results into line with the scientific consensus,” https://qz.com/1069298/the-3-of-scientific-papers-that-deny-climate-change-are-all-flawed/

    4. Extreme weather events: "The number of record high temperature events in the United States has been increasing, while the number of record low temperature events has been decreasing, since 1950. The U.S. has also witnessed increasing numbers of intense rainfall events.10" (NASA). Also, our carbon footprint. More example of extreme weather are the recent Tropical Cyclones that hit the US. Hurricanes are driven by the transfer of heat from the ocean to the air. With a rising sea temperature, which is becasue of humans considering science and the ocean getting warmer too fast. Vox (youtube.com/watch?v=_0TCrGtTEQM) 
    Image result for ocean getting warmer noaaImage result for Earth heating up gif
    "Ocean warming doubles in recent decades"
    http://research.noaa.gov/News/NewsArchive/LatestNews/TabId/684/ArtMID/1768/ArticleID/11572/Ocean-warming-doubles-in-recent-decades.aspx

    Michael Mann, a climatologist, and director of the Earth System Science Centre at Pennsylvania State University, "This work builds on previous research establishing that, without a doubt, the record warmth we are seeing cannot be explained without accounting for the impact of human activity on the warming of the planet." https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/879523/global-warming-environment-climate-change-human-impact

    Also, what about the other points brought up. 
    BaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Pogue ;

    I'm not refuting your proposition. Just stating the obvious.

    Human actions may have influence on the Earth's climate and  ecosystem.

    I was merely expressing a personal opinion.

    That is to say. All human actions can be considered as natural processes.

    Therefore human influenced change of climate and ecosystems can also be regarded as natural processes.

    There is no Universal edict which states how an evolving planetary ecosystem should function or proceed.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
  • Your definition is meaningless as everything would qualify as natural and it doesn't meet the basic distinctions between natural and artificial present both in the human language and specifically in environmental sciences.
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    Alright @Pogue

    Let's say for a minute that you're right, so then what temperature SHOULD the Earth be?  If anyone can say with any certainty that the temperature of the Earth is off...be it cooler or warmer...then they should be able to say with all confidence what the Temperature of the Earth should be.  After all, how would you know that the Earth's temperature is off its mark if you don't know what the mark is?

    So what temperature should the Earth be at?
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @Vaulk
    It would probably be around the predicts with just natural factors.  
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Vaulk

    About 1C lower than it is currently in terms of GMST.
    PogueBaconToesqipwbdeoZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @Ampersand
    Do you think man-made climate change is real?
    BaconToes
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Climate change due to Earth’s climate changing during certain period throughout its history. Humans did not cause that.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • @Max_Air29 And because the temperature did change in the past and we have various ways to measure this, we have been able to compare past change to current change and see that the temperature increase we are saying is indicative of man made effects rather than natural effects.

    @Pogue Almost certainly yes. While not technically impossible, in the same way a lot of things aren't technically impossible, I think the chances are vanishingly small of it not being real.
    PogueBaconToesqipwbdeoZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    edited February 4
    @Max_Air29
    It does but has I stated before with charts and other information why this time it is humans, the rate right now, is too fast
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited February 5
    Take this one with a grain of salt because this guy is pretty rough around the edges.  Also turn the volume down because he gets REALLY loud.  But this is one of the best arguments against the global warming scare I've ever heard.  Just over five and a half minutes.



    If global warming were a concern, even with the most modest of projections...that would mean that the Earth's ocean levels over the next 100 years would rise TEN feet.  That's the BEST case scenario.  If that were even remotely accurate...you couldn't get a single red cent from a banking institution to invest into ANY property in the Southern half of the United States or about 40% of Europe.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk

    What's meant to be convincing about that?
    BaconToesqipwbdeoZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    edited February 5
    @Vaulk
    One, this is about it being real, not a concern. Two, it is a concern becasue it will cause a massive refugee crisis and so many deaths. Listen to Elon Musk on the matter. A youtube video called "Climate Change in 10 minutes - By Elon Musk" by The School of Self. Also, why does the very very very few people's claim override the vast majority? 
    BaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Ampersand ;

    Sometimes you need to try and think outside the box that you have been programmed into.

    You seem to be suggesting that all universal processes require human definition and qualification.

    Whereas I would suggest that, human definition and qualification are no more than  social functions and have no significance when regarded in the context of universal reality.

    That is to say. That all human actions are real.  

    Therefore, all human actions are natural.

    Therefore, human influenced climate change is a natural process.


    PogueBaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    Natural- existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind.
    Man-made- made or caused by human beings (as opposed to occurring or being made naturally); artificial.

    They are different things. What you are saying sounds philosophical. That is different from science. 
    BaconToesanonymousdebaterqipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @Fredsnephew And has @Ampersand said before, your definition is meaningless becasue it shows no distinction between the two words. One is not caused by humans and occurs in nature without human influence (natural). The other is not natural and caused by humans (man-made)
    BaconToesanonymousdebaterqipwbdeoEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited February 5
    @Pogue

    Because science is not a democracy.  There seems to be a huge misunderstanding out there that the number of scientists who agree on something is somehow an indicator of the validity of a theory.  If this were even remotely close to the truth then we'd still be living in a world where everyone was afraid to sail on the ocean for fear of falling off the Earth.  So let's drop the "Majority believes" argument because everyone here knows it's against every scientific principle to suggest that Science is about what the majority of Scientists believe...it's about truth.

    Truth: Global warming is pseudoscience.
    PogueBaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    edited February 5
    @Vaulk
    Um no, the ancient Greeks actually were the first to find out the Earth was round. You have given no evidence and even if you ignore that piece of evidence, there is still an overwhelming amount of evidence. You state a claim with no evidence. That is idiotic (not a fallacy, did not insult you). However, if the overwhelming majority got the same answer and if the other scientific papers have a mistake and when corrected, they fall into the scientific consensus. Also, the scientific consensus is the Earth is round (actually an oval). If you do not counter the other points and just say the consensus is wrong, it is not an argument. 
    BaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Vaulk said:
    @Pogue

    Because science is not a democracy.  There seems to be a huge misunderstanding out there that the number of scientists who agree on something is somehow an indicator of the validity of a theory.  If this were even remotely close to the truth then we'd still be living in a world where everyone was afraid to sail on the ocean for fear of falling off the Earth.  So let's drop the "Majority believes" argument because everyone here knows it's against every scientific principle to suggest that Science is about what the majority of Scientists believe...it's about truth.

    Truth: Global warming is pseudoscience.
    Scientific consensus is not perfect but is a VERY good indicator because generally you will only get a majority of scientists supporting something if the evidence supports it too.

    If you want to reject the scientific consensus then you will need to point out flaws in the evidence they accept or provide alternative evidence.
    PogueBaconToesqipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheesebraintwerk
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited February 6
    @Ampersand

    I could reference several hundred years of misunderstandings that were the result of Scientific consensus (Most of which are ridiculous) but only a few decades of reference for scientific consensus being a good thing.  So how exactly is Scientific consensus generally a good thing when more often than not throughout history it has not been the case that the majority of scientists support something because the evidence supports it too?  


    EmeryPearsonbraintwerk
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @Vaulk
    Because we have a very good understanding on how Earth's climate works and the affects we have on it. Through recent decades we have gathered more knowledge. We have a massive amount of data and evidence to support this.

    https://futurism.com/what-is-scientific-consensus/
    http://theconversation.com/the-things-people-ask-about-the-scientific-consensus-on-climate-change-59243
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:
    @Vaulk
    Because we have a very good understanding on how Earth's climate works and the affects we have on it. Through recent decades we have gathered more knowledge. We have a massive amount of data and evidence to support this.

    https://futurism.com/what-is-scientific-consensus/
    http://theconversation.com/the-things-people-ask-about-the-scientific-consensus-on-climate-change-59243
    We do??  What will the temperature and weather be at this location on this day in five years?
    EmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    The exact weather is not predictable due to the butterfly effect. This does not take away from the substantial evidence I have provided. Weather and climate are different. Weather is short-term and climate is long-term. Why do you just say, for example, what will the weather be in the future or should be now and provide no evidence to say it is not real?

    https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/climate
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/weather
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • VaulkVaulk 567 Pts
    edited February 6


    Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) states: "The long-term prediction of future climate states IS NOT POSSIBLE".





    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • Pogue said:
    The exact weather is not predictable due to the butterfly effect. This does not take away from the substantial evidence I have provided. Weather and climate are different. Weather is short-term and climate is long-term. Why do you just say, for example, what will the weather be in the future or should be now and provide no evidence to say it is not real?

    https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/climate
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/weather
    If it helps further climate alarmists claims its climate if it hurts climate alarmists claims its weather.  If a hurricane hits the US, it's all because of climate change, as we saw this past summer.  Climate is incredibly complex.  We can't answer what the temperature or weather will be in five years because we simply don't understand the system well enough yet.  Since we can't tell what the temperature will be in five years, why would ANYONE believe people who say they know what the temperature and weather will be like in 100 years?
    EmeryPearson
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @CYDdharta ;
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    The exact weather is not predictable due to the butterfly effect. This does not take away from the substantial evidence I have provided. Weather and climate are different. Weather is short-term and climate is long-term. Why do you just say, for example, what will the weather be in the future or should be now and provide no evidence to say it is not real?

    https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/climate
    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/weather
    If it helps further climate alarmists claims its climate if it hurts climate alarmists claims its weather.  If a hurricane hits the US, it's all because of climate change, as we saw this past summer.  Climate is incredibly complex.  We can't answer what the temperature or weather will be in five years because we simply don't understand the system well enough yet.  Since we can't tell what the temperature will be in five years, why would ANYONE believe people who say they know what the temperature and weather will be like in 100 years?
    Has I stated before hurricanes get more powerful because of warmer oceans. Oceans are warming to quickly. Climate and weather are different! We can make accurate predictions of the climate. 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html

    qipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    Vaulk said:


    Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) states: "The long-term prediction of future climate states IS NOT POSSIBLE".





    According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal." 






    https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2016/04/21/-lindzen-prager-u-and-the-art-of-lying-well/

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/a-disservice-to-the-scientific-method-climate-scientists-take-on-richard-lindzen
    https://www.inverse.com/article/11643-climate-change-denying-mit-prof-richard-lindzen-is-suddenly-popular-still-wrong
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/climate-nexus/lindzen-cites-debunked-science_b_6812356.html

    I am done putting sources down because I like actual arguments instead of just linking a source. These sources explain why your narrative and the entire prager university narrative is wrong and why man-made climate change is real. 
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    Can we debate with our own words instead of just linking something now?
    EmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:
    Has I stated before hurricanes get more powerful because of warmer oceans. Oceans are warming to quickly. Climate and weather are different! We can make accurate predictions of the climate. 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html

    ...then why didn't we make accurate predictions??? 

    A dry, mild winter is likely across most of the southern tier of the U.S. this time around, thanks to a developing La Niña, meteorologists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Climate Prediction Center said.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2017/10/19/winter-weather-forecast-warm-dry-southern-u-s-snowy-and-cold-northwest-great-lakes/779886001/


    meanwhile, in the real world;






    I guess they just like to surprise their readers.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    Has I stated before hurricanes get more powerful because of warmer oceans. Oceans are warming to quickly. Climate and weather are different! We can make accurate predictions of the climate. 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html

    ...then why didn't we make accurate predictions??? 

    A dry, mild winter is likely across most of the southern tier of the U.S. this time around, thanks to a developing La Niña, meteorologists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Climate Prediction Center said.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2017/10/19/winter-weather-forecast-warm-dry-southern-u-s-snowy-and-cold-northwest-great-lakes/779886001/


    meanwhile, in the real world;






    I guess they just like to surprise their readers.
    1 time does not destroy years of research, predictions, and evidence. Where did you get that the models are wrong when the graph with man-made is almost identical to observations. 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html

    “You can’t tell much about the climate or where it’s headed by focusing on a particularly frigid day, or season, or year, even,” writes Eoin O’Carroll of the Christian Science Monitor. “It’s all in the long-term trends,” concurs Dr. Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU

    The sources have a lot of information. 
    BaconToesEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    @CYDdharta
    It could actually mean colder and more intense winter storms because more water is evaporating into the atmosphere to when it gets colder it will freeze and fall through the water cycle. I hope this helps you understand why it could mean harsher winters. 

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:

    “You can’t tell much about the climate or where it’s headed by focusing on a particularly frigid day, or season, or year, even,” writes Eoin O’Carroll of the Christian Science Monitor. “It’s all in the long-term trends,” concurs Dr. Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU

    The sources have a lot of information. 
    LOL, how convenient. 
    EmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
  • Pogue said:
    @CYDdharta
    It could actually mean colder and more intense winter storms because more water is evaporating into the atmosphere to when it gets colder it will freeze and fall through the water cycle. I hope this helps you understand why it could mean harsher winters. 

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU
    Yes, if it gets warmer, its because of global warming.  If it gets colder, its because of global warming.  Flooding, it must be of global warming.  Drought, its also global warming.  Too bad none of these men of "science" could make an accurate prediction BEFOREHAND when it would have helped.  It appears they really don't understand the climate they way they pretend they do.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheeseZombieguy1987
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    @CYDdharta
    It could actually mean colder and more intense winter storms because more water is evaporating into the atmosphere to when it gets colder it will freeze and fall through the water cycle. I hope this helps you understand why it could mean harsher winters. 

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU
    Yes, if it gets warmer, its because of global warming.  If it gets colder, its because of global warming.  Flooding, it must be of global warming.  Drought, its also global warming.  Too bad none of these men of "science" could make an accurate prediction BEFOREHAND when it would have helped.  It appears they really don't understand the climate they way they pretend they do.
    But they have. There are legitimate reasons why but you seem to just deny it. This debate is now uninteresting. Bye. 
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 716 Pts
    edited February 6
    Pogue said:
    But they have. There are legitimate reasons why but you seem to just deny it. This debate is now uninteresting. Bye. 
    They have???  Well then, don't be shy, feel free to share.  Let me demonstrate;

    Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases


    It's entirely wrong, but its a prediction, anyway.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    But they have. There are legitimate reasons why but you seem to just deny it. This debate is now uninteresting. Bye. 
    They have???  Well then, don't be shy, feel free to share.  Let me demonstrate;

    Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases


    It's entirely wrong, but its a prediction, anyway.
    I live in New York, and it goes from 30F to 50F in a few days and by your logical this is evidence for climate change. Overall, winters are getting warmer though. The 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
    these show climate predictions and they closely match observations. 
    "The study found that unusually cold temperatures in northern North America and lower precipitation in the south central U.S. all coincided with periods of warmer Arctic weather." https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/global-warming-arctic-colder-winters-climate-change-spd/

    We can accurately predict the climate not weather (different things). https://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-03/weather-prediction-climate-prediction-what’s-diff  https://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

    http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/maps/winters-are-getting-warmer
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts

    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:

    “You can’t tell much about the climate or where it’s headed by focusing on a particularly frigid day, or season, or year, even,” writes Eoin O’Carroll of the Christian Science Monitor. “It’s all in the long-term trends,” concurs Dr. Gavin Schmidt, a climatologist at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/12/28/16827022/climate-change-cold-arctic-snap-us-canada-jet-stream
    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/cold-snow-climate-change.html#.WnkayaOZMdU

    The sources have a lot of information. 
    LOL, how convenient. 
    What is convenient about it? That there is reliable information to back my point but not yours.
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • Pogue said:
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    But they have. There are legitimate reasons why but you seem to just deny it. This debate is now uninteresting. Bye. 
    They have???  Well then, don't be shy, feel free to share.  Let me demonstrate;

    Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases


    It's entirely wrong, but its a prediction, anyway.
    I live in New York, and it goes from 30F to 50F in a few days and by your logical this is evidence for climate change. Overall, winters are getting warmer though. The 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
    these show climate predictions and they closely match observations. 
    "The study found that unusually cold temperatures in northern North America and lower precipitation in the south central U.S. all coincided with periods of warmer Arctic weather." https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/global-warming-arctic-colder-winters-climate-change-spd/

    We can accurately predict the climate not weather (different things). https://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-03/weather-prediction-climate-prediction-what’s-diff  https://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

    http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/maps/winters-are-getting-warmer
    Ugh, you don't really want to get into a battle of the graphs, do you?



    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/02/uah-global-temperature-update-for-january-2018-0-26-deg-c/

    I live just below you in PA.  I've never lived thru colder winters than I've been thru the last few years, but I guess a few years is "weather" if it doesn't support the global warming theory.
    BaconToesEmeryPearson
  • Pogue said:

    LOL, how convenient. 
    What is convenient about it? That there is reliable information to back my point but not yours.
    What "reliable information"????  That when it gets warmer its because of global warming and that when it gets colder its because of global warming and that when its wetter its because of global warming and that when its dryer its because of global warming???!?  As I said before, if anyone was accurately predicting what we could expect, maybe they would have an understanding worth respecting, but no one does.  They all just come up with excuses after the fact.
    EmeryPearson
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:
    But they have. There are legitimate reasons why but you seem to just deny it. This debate is now uninteresting. Bye. 
    They have???  Well then, don't be shy, feel free to share.  Let me demonstrate;

    Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases


    It's entirely wrong, but its a prediction, anyway.
    I live in New York, and it goes from 30F to 50F in a few days and by your logical this is evidence for climate change. Overall, winters are getting warmer though. The 

    https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/science-and-impacts/science/human-contribution-to-gw-faq.html
    these show climate predictions and they closely match observations. 
    "The study found that unusually cold temperatures in northern North America and lower precipitation in the south central U.S. all coincided with periods of warmer Arctic weather." https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/global-warming-arctic-colder-winters-climate-change-spd/

    We can accurately predict the climate not weather (different things). https://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-03/weather-prediction-climate-prediction-what’s-diff  https://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

    http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/maps/winters-are-getting-warmer
    Ugh, you don't really want to get into a battle of the graphs, do you?



    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/02/uah-global-temperature-update-for-january-2018-0-26-deg-c/

    I live just below you in PA.  I've never lived thru colder winters than I've been thru the last few years, but I guess a few years is "weather" if it doesn't support the global warming theory.
    How does this support your point? It shows the temperature and Earth are getting warmer very quickly. Words have meanings. Finally a year does not beat decades of research and observations. I will debate more tomorrow, I need to charge my laptop, i want to watch TV, and I am pretty tired for some reason now Have a good night. Bye. 
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • PoguePogue 532 Pts
    CYDdharta said:
    Pogue said:

    LOL, how convenient. 
    What is convenient about it? That there is reliable information to back my point but not yours.
    What "reliable information"????  That when it gets warmer its because of global warming and that when it gets colder its because of global warming and that when its wetter its because of global warming and that when its dryer its because of global warming???!?  As I said before, if anyone was accurately predicting what we could expect, maybe they would have an understanding worth respecting, but no one does.  They all just come up with excuses after the fact.
    Global Warming is just Earth getting warmer. Climate change is the proper term. 
    https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-difference-between-global-warming-and-climate-change
    http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/ask-joe/difference-global-warming-climate-change/
    https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-difference-between-global-warming-and-climate-change-1
    https://pmm.nasa.gov/education/articles/whats-name-global-warming-vs-climate-change
    https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/difference-between-global-warming-and-climate-change

    THESE are the facts
    EmeryPearsoncheesycheese
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 716 Pts
    edited February 6
    Pogue said:
    LOL, way to dodge my post.  The climate is always changing.  Does this better suit you?  When it gets warmer its because of "climate change" and that when it gets colder its because of "climate change" and that when its wetter its because of "climate change" and that when its dryer its because of "climate change"???!?  As I said before, if anyone was accurately predicting what we could expect, maybe they would have an understanding worth respecting, but no one does.  They all just come up with excuses after the fact.

    Those are SUPPOSITIONS, or less.
    BaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
  • NopeNope 342 Pts
    CYDdharta
    "I live just below you in PA.  I've never lived thru colder winters than I've been thru the last few years, but I guess a few years is "weather" if it doesn't support the global warming theory."
    First global warming means through the globe as a hole not one place. Second while a few years is not weather it is also not a large trend. 
    PogueqipwbdeoBaconToesEmeryPearsoncheesycheese
  • @Pogue ;

    Humans are natural.

    Therefore human actions are natural. 

    Therefore anything"man made" is natural.

    Changes that occur as a result of our actions must be regarded as natural.

    All events that occur within the universe are natural. It is impossible for these events to be anything other than natural.

    It's interesting how easily people are prepared to dismiss simple logic. 

    Here's a question for you.

    You take in food through your mouth (remember a lot of food we eat is pre-processed), which then passes through your gut where chemical reactions take place extracting nutrients from your food. Eventually a waste product is ejected through your anus.

    Are your faeces natural or man made?

    PogueqipwbdeoBaconToesEmeryPearson
  • Vaulk said:
    @Ampersand

    I could reference several hundred years of misunderstandings that were the result of Scientific consensus (Most of which are ridiculous) but only a few decades of reference for scientific consensus being a good thing.  So how exactly is Scientific consensus generally a good thing when more often than not throughout history it has not been the case that the majority of scientists support something because the evidence supports it too?  


    Why don't you actually reference hundreds of years of scientific misunderstandings rather than just claim you could?
    qipwbdeoEmeryPearson
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