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Is the Confederate Flag Racist?
in History

Does it stand for Racism? Or does it stand for proud heritage? Or even the American dream of overthrowing the Government when it doesnt serve the people anymore?
I have a black friend who flew this flagon his bike when biking to school. The admin saw it, and got real pissed. Were they right?
aarongjoecavalry
Sovereignty for Kekistan



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  • Racism or proud heritage?

    It stands for both racism and proud heritage.

    Neo-nazis are very proud of their heritage and also very racist.
    PogueEmeryPearsonZombieguy1987
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @someone234
    I agree with that. 
    People say that it's their heritage. And it is. 
    However, their heritage is built on racism and is such racist. 
    someone234anonymousdebater
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • It's a flag of heritage and rightful separation that (unfortunately) served as a rally for some racists during the Civil War. The vast majority of volunteers to the Confederate army, for instance, weren't slave owners and never would be. They joined largely because they felt threatened by the cultural separation of the North and South, and how the North was legislating based on that difference.

    The association of the flag with racist sentiment is a mistake that only serves to reduce the complexity of Confederate motivation and completely obscure the things they were completely within their rights to do.
    SinaAriaEmeryPearsonBaconToesErfisflat
  • The Confederate flag represents a movement based on racism and hatred. It represents a group of people who took arms against the US in support of slavery. In support of being able to OWN a human being. 
    to anyone who would argue that this flag does not represent slavery I present a question that if answered will change my view:

    Why was it, that when the southern commission for peace talks met with Lincoln to discuss the terms of surrender, their first and only wish was to be readmitted into the union in time to block the ratification of the thirteenth amendment?
    Pogue
  • @SinaAria You aren't wrong. The Confederates were fighting for their right to slavery.
    EmeryPearson
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    Slavery was mentioned in multiple states secession. Mississippi said, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery ..." The Confederate constitution said "No bill ... or law denying or impairing the right of property in ... slaves shall be passed."
    Also, in 1861 the Confederate vice president gave a speech that said: " ... the negro is not equal to the white man ..."

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    I think a better question is does the confederate flag represent racism because the confederate flag is a flag and does not care who you are. Also which confederate flag are we taking about? I don't think that a flag of a society that kept slaves represent slaves. When the civil war started The north was npt trying to destroy slavery. Some northern states kept slaves longer then the confederate states.
    EmeryPearsonErfisflat
  • Does the Confederate flag symbolize racism? Yes.

    This is basically undeniable, as the Confederacy stated that Racism was the reason it existed as a nation.

    Fast forward to modernity, and racists groups still use it as their primary symbol. So I'd say it's meaning hasn't evolved much in the past century.
    BaconToesErfisflat
  • BaconToesBaconToes 188 Pts
    edited March 27
    Like @Erfisflat in the other confederate flag debate, flags are subjective. You can decide what the flag represents. Certain people think it symbolizes bravery of Confederate soldiers, some people think of it a reminder of history and slavery, some people think of it as a racist symbol, some people just think it is... a flag.
    EmeryPearsonNopeanonymousdebaterErfisflat
    i fart cows
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    @BaconToes
    A flag is made to symbolize a country. A country includes the society and the government/laws itself. As I previously stated above ...
    Slavery was mentioned in multiple states secession. Mississippi said, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery ..." The Confederate constitution said "No bill ... or law denying or impairing the right of property in ... slaves shall be passed."
    Also, in 1861 the Confederate vice president gave a speech that said: " ... the negro is not equal to the white man ..."

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
    EmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • @Pogue said
    @BaconToes
    A flag is made to symbolize a country. A country includes the society and the government/laws itself. As I previously stated above ...
    Slavery was mentioned in multiple states secession. Mississippi said, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery ..." The Confederate constitution said "No bill ... or law denying or impairing the right of property in ... slaves shall be passed."
    Also, in 1861 the Confederate vice president gave a speech that said: " ... the negro is not equal to the white man ..."

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
    Your point is...
    EmeryPearsonErfisflat
    i fart cows
  • PoguePogue 507 Pts
    BaconToes said:
    Like @Erfisflat in the other confederate flag debate, flags are objective. You can decide what the flag represents. Certain people think it symbolizes bravery of Confederate soldiers, some people think of it a reminder of history and slavery, some people think of it as a racist symbol, some people just think it is... a flag.
    I think you mean subjective not objective. 
    Subjective-based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
    Objective-(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
    If it was objective it would mean racism

    BaconToes said:
    @Pogue said
    @BaconToes
    A flag is made to symbolize a country. A country includes the society and the government/laws itself. As I previously stated above ...
    Slavery was mentioned in multiple states secession. Mississippi said, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery ..." The Confederate constitution said "No bill ... or law denying or impairing the right of property in ... slaves shall be passed."
    Also, in 1861 the Confederate vice president gave a speech that said: " ... the negro is not equal to the white man ..."

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/cornerstone-speech/
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp
    Your point is...
    Oh, sorry I did not clearly state my point. It is racist. 
    BaconToesEmeryPearson
    I could either have the future pass me or l could create it. 

    “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin  So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.

    I friended myself! 
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    EmeryPearson Why was my comment Irrelevant? Also what a flag represents based on the person because it is just a flag so saying it is basically undanible is not that true.
    Also I still wan't to know what Confederate flag because they each represent something different to most people.
    BaconToes
  • @Nope

    "I think a better question is does the confederate flag represent racism because the confederate flag is a flag and does not care who you are:"

    The Confederate Flag represents the confederacy. 

    "Also which confederate flag are we taking about?"

    Basically any 'stars and bars' style confederate flag outside the official flag used between 1861 – 1863. But I can only assume this was the original posters intention.

    "I don't think that a flag of a society that kept slaves represent slaves."

    The entire nation existed to preserve to slavery, as stated by the Confederacy.

    "When the civil war started The north was npt trying to destroy slavery."

    The North's motivations do not negate the South's motivation for war.

    "Some northern states kept slaves longer then the confederate states."

    This isn't exactly true, seeing slavery persisted in the South through Sharecropping and the Justice system.

    "Also what a flag represents based on the person because it is just a flag so saying it is basically undanible is not that true."

    The Flag represented the Confederacy, which existed to preserve slavery. If you can find evidence that it did not represent the confederacy, I'd say you have wiggle room here.
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    EmeryPearson
    It can be argued that the Confederacy main motivation was to keep state rights which if the government abolishing slavery it would intrude on. I also mentioned the Northern states not being motivated to destroy slavery because it shows that the confederacy was not only trying to preserve slavery.
    BaconToes
  • @Nope

    "It can be argued that the Confederacy main motivation was to keep state rights which if the government abolishing slavery it would intrude on. "

    It can be argued that the Union main motivation was to keep states rights which the enforcement of fugitive slave laws trampled.

    "I also mentioned the Northern states not being motivated to destroy slavery because it shows that the confederacy was not only trying to preserve slavery."

    The motivations of the North don't negate the motivations of the South. If the Union fought to maintain an elephant in congress, that wouldn't somehow make the fact the South fought to preserve slavery any less true.
    BaconToes
  • People should be allowed to own, etc. the confederate flag due to it being part of the U.S.’s history.
    Erfisflat
    DebateIslander and a DebateIsland.com lover. 
  • VaulkVaulk 558 Pts
    edited March 29
    I think if you can wear a Cuban Flag and claim that it's about your heritage and not about supporting Communism and the murder of God knows how many people then one can equally wear a Rebel Flag and claim that it's about your heritage and not about supporting Racism and hatred.



    BaconToesErfisflatEmeryPearson
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    edited March 29
    Where I'm from, that flag is all over the place. Historical monuments and landmarks, on vehicles, some schools, tatoos, yards, etc. but it's not just white people that fly the flag. In Selma, which is about 2 hours away at a job that I worked on, the flag was also seen there in some places. I agree that the flag is subjective in nature, just as any flag is. I openly support anyone's right to fly or burn any flag.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/photos-they-black-and-they-proud-the-confederate-flag/by06A6ywMrqi7mYP9A1jmO/
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • someone234someone234 605 Pts
    edited March 29
    Erfisflat said:
    Where I'm from, that flag is all over the place. Historical monuments and landmarks, on vehicles, some schools, tatoos, yards, etc. but it's not just white people that fly the flag. In Selma, which is about 2 hours away at a job that I worked on, the flag was also seen there in some places. I agree that the flag is subjective in nature, just as any flag is. I openly support anyone's right to fly or burn any flag.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/photos-they-black-and-they-proud-the-confederate-flag/by06A6ywMrqi7mYP9A1jmO/

    I am the opposite entirely.

    I am an anti-fascist fascist. If you adorn a flag that I consider immoral or you burn a flag that represents what I love, I want to make you burn with the flag... I want to show you what a flag is and the respect you owe what it represents.


    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1555 Pts
    Erfisflat said:
    Where I'm from, that flag is all over the place. Historical monuments and landmarks, on vehicles, some schools, tatoos, yards, etc. but it's not just white people that fly the flag. In Selma, which is about 2 hours away at a job that I worked on, the flag was also seen there in some places. I agree that the flag is subjective in nature, just as any flag is. I openly support anyone's right to fly or burn any flag.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/photos-they-black-and-they-proud-the-confederate-flag/by06A6ywMrqi7mYP9A1jmO/

    I am the opposite entirely.

    I am an anti-fascist fascist. If you adorn a flag that I consider immoral or you burn a flag that represents what I love, I want to make you burn with the flag... I want to show you what a flag is and the respect you owe what it represents.


    So, just to clarify, you're willing to take a life in the worst possible way... for setting fire to a piece of cloth from Wal-Mart that was made by little Chinese kids in a sweatshop?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat

    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.

    Wayne Dyer
  • There is no objective symbolism attached to flags, but that doesn't mean that subjective values attached to flags aren't relevant or fairly obvious.

    While someone who is using the flag can claim they personally don't attach racist connotations to the confederate flag when they use it, likewise someone can claim that they personally don't attach insulting connotations to flipping someone the bird. Either way, don't be surprised if other people think you are a racist or an asshole.
    someone234EmeryPearson
  • @Erfisflat Well there are physically worse ways than burning.

    If you burn the flag of the nation, the nation you reside in should remove the rights it has granted you.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    someone234
    The US has the rights of freedom of speech. Burning its flag is practicing this right. Why should practicing a right given to you by your country result in them taking away the right. You are supposed to be able to practice your rights. 
    EmeryPearson
  • @Nope Oh, you seem to think I support freedom of speech and stuff to an unfettered level.

    I am not a right-wing libertarian, so come and try again.

    There's a ton of stuff people should be punished for saying and the punishment should be teaching them how to become a tolerant, understanding human being.

    If I ever ran a nation, I'd be a leader like no other. My people would love me and those who don't would learn to.
    drodgers
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    someone234
    I don't see how burning people who burn the flag teaches people how to be tolerant understanding human beings. I feel like that would be doing the opeset. You can't make some one love you. If they don't like you how can you teach them to like you? 
    EmeryPearson
  • @Nope I said I want to burn them. I didn't say what I'd do was burn them.

    The discipline to act differently to what you feel like doing is the difference between Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor.
    Be tomorrow's hero, not today's idol.
  • NopeNope 327 Pts
    edited March 29
    P
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 413 Pts
    Confederate Flag is a symbol, and as any symbol, for a given individual it only has the meaning the individual gives it. Which means, in the most general terms, that as any symbol, it can stand for virtually anything. It can stand for racism, and it can not stand for racism.

    Allow me to bring up an extreme example I've seen on TV a long time ago. In, I believe, Latvia there was a small parade of veterans of World War 2 in Nazi costumes. A reporter was interviewing one of the veterans, and approximately the following dialogue occurred:
    Reporter: "Are you not ashamed of celebrating Nazism?"
    Veteran: "We are not celebrating Nazism. We are celebrating our fight for freedom from Soviet occupants."
    Reporter: "But what about the Nazi costume you are wearing?"
    Veteran: "This is the costume I wore when fighting communism. I do not have any love for Nazis, and I would have fought them just as well if needed - but I do have love for freedom and for my history of fighting for it, no matter under which banner."

    Just as this Veteran wore a Nazi costume because he treasured his memories, and not because he loved Nazis - people could wave a Confederate flag because they treasure the history and, perhaps, some specific Confederate ideals, and not because they support slavery.

    So, the answer to your question is: it depends on the meaning the person waving the flag puts into it. People who get angry over the meaning they themselves put into someone else's flag are simply being emotional or not understanding of how symbols work.
    Vaulk
  • drodgersdrodgers 33 Pts
    A flag can't be racist.  It takes a person.
  • @AmericanFurryBoy

    It stands for multiple things, depending on who flies it. Notice that the Dukes of Hazzard had the Confederate flag on the top of their car. It stood for being rebels.
  • It's a flag, it stands for multiple things.

    For me: It's just a piece of cloth from a historical part in American History

    For that triggered SJW in the corner cringing: It represents racism

    For a normal southerner: It's heritage 
  • If any meaning is attached to the confederate flag it should be Anti-American before it stands for heritage or racism. It was literally the symbol for an armed attack against the United States of America.
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