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Are AR-15s and M4s the same thing?
in Politics

By BryceSloanBryceSloan 31 Pts
AlofRIZombieguy1987
  1. Live Poll

    Which firearm is used in more crimes?

    6 votes
    1. AR-15s
        0.00%
    2. Handgun
      100.00%
Bryce M. Sloan,
"Streite nicht mit einem Idioten, sie werden dich auf ihr Niveau herunterziehen und dich mit Erfahrung schlagen."  -Mark Twain 



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Arguments

  • AlofRIAlofRI 152 Pts
    You should run another poll to be fair, like: What firearm can kill the most people before the police can arrive, or allows the shortest escape time.

    The AR-15 is not the same thing as an M-4 by a long shot, (no pun intended). That doesn't mean they are totally out of the same category. They are weapons made to kill, they are NOT made to hunt. Of course, you CAN hunt with either, but, hunting is supposed to be a "sport". "Hunting" with either is anything but "sportsman-like", it's slaughter. The person who feels he (she) NEEDS either, should not be a person who is allowed to purchase a gun. "WANT" is another thing, but, we shouldn't always get what we want, and wanters are different than needers. It's a whole different outlook.  

    I've had guns all my life. Most are things of beauty to me and thousands of others. I think the M-4 is a thing of beauty … as a deadly weapon. Like a NASCAR vehicle is a beautiful machine, but, in the wrong hands, in the wrong place, it's a deadly weapon also. I'm for letting qualified drivers drive them on a track that's MADE for them. I'm for letting qualified soldiers use the M-4 on the battlefield it was made for.

    I saw a news article today that said there has been 600+ gun crimes since Monday. We can be thankful that the majority didn't involve the AR-15 or M-4.
    PlaffelvohfenCYDdhartaApplesauce
  • WordsMatterWordsMatter 444 Pts
    edited March 22
    Precisely why gun control or any sort of reform like increased background checks or closing the gun show loophole is completely futile and would only strengthen the position of those who strongly super the 2nd. Handguns are practically the only gun used in gun violence in the US, if you don't fully repeal all guns then gun violence will not be impacted. If we aren't going to fully repeal all guns then we should broaden the scope of the 2nd amendment to allow us to own more weapons. I think we are in a very dumb middle ground as it is right now, let's go either fully to one side or the other. If we have the 2nd amendment I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to get an RPG if I so choose. Id rather not have to go to Pakistan to shoot one.

    This is where I split with my fellow liberals and why I split with people in the right in terms of immigration, and seemingly the majority of country on counterterrorism. I'm not afraid to die, I've accepted is a possibility at any second. I could easily die anytime I go drive for a plethora of reasons. I could get shot and killed any moment, maybe I cut someone off in traffic and they are unstable and pissed and decide to shoot me for it, always possible. Screw this harsh immigration and blocking of refugees and especially things like the NSA and Patriot act. Just living in the world makes terrorism a constant possibility anywhere my delusion of safety isn't worth my security or stopping people who desperately need asylum or want to immigrate. I've accepted that these are all realities and I'm ok with it, I get to live my life knowing my time could be limited.
    Zombieguy1987AlofRIApplesauce
  • @AlofRI ;


    So in basic principle you are saying every person should be required to take and pass a gun safety class. It should also be a required course for graduating High School?
    AlofRIZombieguy1987
  • AlofRIAlofRI 152 Pts
    @WordsMatter:  To take your theory seriously I would have to agree that requiring a drivers license and driving test would be futile. Because thousands die each year, killed by cars or by using them it is futile to require these ….. regulations? Sorry, can't agree with that.

    I, personally, see a reason why YOU shouldn't have an RPG. I have no idea of your mental state. Would YOU want your next door neighbor who you might consider a few cards short of a full deck, to also have one … that is, if he "really" wants one ;-) ?? If you do, you'd better count the cards in your OWN deck. I'd really rather they didn't even have them in Pakistan.

    JFK said: "This nation was founded by many men of many countries and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened." That means YOUR rights have to be balanced so that they don't step on others rights. Maybe your neighbor to the OTHER side of you, the one WITH a full deck, fears for his family if his "short of cards" neighbor(s) are seen waving RPG's around in THEIR back yards. You're saying s/he doesn't have the "right" to object? To have these WOMD's removed for the safety of the family?? Strange, dangerous outlook on what freedom is! You want it ALL, apparently. Libertarian?

    We ALL have to respect others rights, we ALL can't do everything we'd like to do. You can't drive without a license, you just can't because I don't want you to. I'd rather, as an early member of the NRA that was, at that time, the major purveyor of "gun safety" in the country, that you also have passed muster on your qualifications to "operate a moving weapon". By the way, it has been shown that the VAST majority of NRA members want stronger ownership laws as well as the vast majority of other Americans. Your rights, like mine, are secondary to the vast majorities in this country. Our freedoms are, necessarily, limited. (Thank the founders.)
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1055 Pts
        AlofRI said:
        You should run another poll to be fair, like: What firearm can kill the most people before the police can arrive, or allows the shortest escape time.

    A poll isn't a proper response in either case as they indicate popularity, not a reasoned determination that has been derived by thorough analysis of relevant data.

        The AR-15 is not the same thing as an M-4 by a long shot, (no pun intended). That doesn't mean they are totally out of the same category. They are weapons made to kill, they are NOT made to hunt. Of course, you CAN hunt with either, but, hunting is supposed to be a "sport". "Hunting" with either is anything but "sportsman-like", it's slaughter. The person who feels he (she) NEEDS either, should not be a person who is allowed to purchase a gun. "WANT" is another thing, but, we shouldn't always get what we want, and wanters are different than needers. It's a whole different outlook.

        I've had guns all my life. Most are things of beauty to me and thousands of others. I think the M-4 is a thing of beauty … as a deadly weapon. Like a NASCAR vehicle is a beautiful machine, but, in the wrong hands, in the wrong place, it's a deadly weapon also. I'm for letting qualified drivers drive them on a track that's MADE for them. I'm for letting qualified soldiers use the M-4 on the battlefield it was made for.

    "Weapons made to kill"?  That is the purpose of weapons, but lethality was definitely NOT the overriding factor in adopting the 5.56mm.  Controllability in full-auto fire and small size, allowing a greater combat load, were greater concerns than stopping power.  The 5.56mm is a great vermin hunting caliber, but it's inadequate for anything larger.  Many states outlaw it's use for anything but small game.  So, if by hunting with an AR-15 or M-4 would be "slaughter" you mean for rabbits, squirrels, groundhogs, etc., well maybe, if you find a really good spot and you get really lucky.  For anything larger, like deer, you're too likely to wound the poor creature than to kill it.

        I saw a news article today that said there has been 600+ gun crimes since Monday. We can be thankful that the majority didn't involve the AR-15 or M-4.

    We can be even MORE thankful that the majority didn't involve 12 gauges or FN-FALs.



    AlofRIApplesauce
  • The only similarity’s are that they both look similar and the fire similar rounds.
    M4s fire in either Full auto, Semi-auto, or three round bursts
    AR-15s are only Semi-auto. The thing is, the were originally developed for the military, but they didn’t meet military standards. Then, the civilian model was dumbed down even more. The AR is a sport rifle. Not a killing machine

    (The following link is the National Violent Deaths Reporting System. A study from the CDC. You’ll find all of the gun death data you’ll ever need here)
    https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/nvdrs/nvdrsDisplay.jsp
    Zombieguy1987Applesauce
    Sovereignty for Kekistan
  • they are varients
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • similar =/= same, if they were the same thing they would have the same name thus this topic couldn't exist.
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • One is a semi automatic variant of the other, they are very similar .
    CYDdharta
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • semi automtic rifles should be banned you can play with your troy par https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2TE8lhMiFk
    The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin

  • TKDBTKDB 84 Pts
    edited March 30
    @AlofRI

    Here's an idea for another Poll:

    Why aren't the non race on race, and the race on race gun violence crimes being protested by some who take to the streets to protest police brutality?

    When the non race on race, and race on race gun violence brutality crimes, happen a whole lot more, but for some odd reason, not many, if anyone is taking to the streets to protest, those criminals and their gun violence brutality against their victims? 

    I wonder why those same non race on race, and race on race gun violence brutality crimes, get treated with such a lack of transparency? 


  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1055 Pts
    edited March 30
    One is a semi automatic variant of the other, they are very similar .
    One is a military rifle, the other is not, they are significantly different.  No military has ever equipped their troops with AR-15s.
  • TKDBTKDB 84 Pts
    Maybe this information can help with this forum?

    From Wikipedia:

    "In active service (some branches or limited roles)Edit

    • M4

    • Mk 18 Mod 0 CQBR

    • GUU-5/P

    • M231 FPW

    • HK416

    Out of service (obsolete)Edit

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