supernatural things are likely to occur - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com. The only online debate website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the leading online debate website. Debate popular topics, debate news, or debate anything! Debate online for free! DebateIsland is utilizing Artifical Intelligence to transform online debating.


The best online Debate website - DebateIsland.com! The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free!

supernatural things are likely to occur
in Religion

By linatelinate 34 Pts
here is a link with working links for the stuff below




theists cant show things that look supernatural, but theists can

first cause per God is merely a philosophical problem and is the most likely scenario

=======
there are credible people in respectable positions of science who believe in exorcisms. there are credible people who say of things that look supernatural.

"Dr. Richard Gallagher is an Ivy League-educated, board-certified psychiatrist who teaches at Columbia University and New York Medical College. He was part of the team that tried to help the woman.
Fighting Satan's minions wasn't part of Gallagher's career plan while he was studying medicine at Yale. He knew about biblical accounts of demonic possession but thought they were an ancient culture's attempt to grapple with mental disorders like epilepsy. He proudly calls himself a "man of science."
Yet today, Gallagher has become something else: the go-to guy for a sprawling network of exorcists in the United States. He says demonic possession is real. He's seen the evidence: victims suddenly speaking perfect Latin; sacred objects flying off shelves; people displaying "hidden knowledge" or secrets about people that they could not have possibly have known."

"Gallagher agrees and has answers for skeptics like Novella.
He says demons won't submit to lab studies or allow themselves to be easily recorded by video equipment. They want to sow doubt, not confirm their existence, he says. Nor will the church compromise the privacy of a person suffering from possession just to provide film to skeptics."


more doctors discussing this from a scientific perspective

here is the leading proponent doctor giving an example of a 'true' possession

=======

evidence of the objective nature of NDEs:

people literally die and come back to tell us of the afterlife and God. it's hard to get much more straightforward than that.

NDEs of atheists
-most atheists meet a divine being and more than half of them come back believing in God. reading the examples at nderf.org seems to make one think almost all of them do. there is some decent arguments that NDEs can be somewhat subjective sometimes, but the fact that athesists dont just see an afterlife without God is significant.
of course NDEs of agnostics and theists involve this stuff too

out of body experiences
-the AWARE studies show people who have cardiac arrest and are resusitated. they die, experience the afterlife, and come back to tell about it. the first study showed someone experiencing both visual and auditory ability while clinically dead through an out of body experience. more studies are being done.
-one peer reviewed study showed someone who died reading numbers on a page while out of body, and that would only be possible otherwise if they guessed the numbers randomly and correctly.
-"In a little over 40 percent of my surveys, NDE"rs observed things that were geographically far from their physical body, that were way outside of any possible physical central awareness. Typically, someone who has an NDE with an out-of-body experience comes back and reports what they saw and heard while floating around, it"s about 98 percent accurate in every way. For example, in one account someone who coded in the operating room had an out-of-body experience where their consciousness traveled to the hospital cafeteria where they saw and heard their family and others talking, completely unaware that they had coded. They were absolutely correct in what they saw."
-there is the testimony of thousands of credible people who have died and told others what they were doing when dead, affirmed by both the dead person and the person observed. often concerning reliable witnesses like doctors. there are books dedicated to giving examples. a common example is pam reynolds, who accurately described the surgical equipment that was used while she was dead, and was said to not have been available while she was awake and not something a normal person would know.

consistency argument
'near death experiences' are consistent globally
-the near death experience happens to everyone in very similar ways. this even happens to people who have never heard of the phenomenon and to kids. to suggest that there is a story embedded in our brain is far fetched.

seems more real than real
"we ask that as a very direct survey question: What do you currently believe about the reality of your experience? And of about 590 NDE responders, 95 percent say the experience was definitely real with the other options being probably real, probably not real, and definitely not real. So among those that have these experiences, virtually everybody knows that it was a real thing. It"s just much harder to believe for those of us who have never had one. Seeing is believing. If you don"t personally have a near-death experience, which is again a blessing"obviously these people nearly died"it"s hard to understand these unearthly experiences."

non-hallucinatory
-there is nothing that reproduces the NDE and the closest drug that can like ketamine you can draw marked differences between that and the authentic experience. mostly by noting most ketamine and drug induced experiences are random, but NDEs again are consistent.

here is a load of scientific evidence produced from NDEs:
AlofRI



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted To Win
Tie

Details +



Arguments

  • linatelinate 34 Pts
  • DeeDee 382 Pts
    edited April 16
    @linate

    Thats it? Just looking at one of your go to sites as in the Scottnet site and what a surprise it’s a site that’s theme is Christian and run by a Christian.

    Can you post up a scientific site demonstrating proof and show me where eminent sceintists agree with any of your claims?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 1653 Pts
    It seems that all these "credible people" have nothing to offer but verbal testimonies. I would guess that, should someone employed in an Ivy League university claim that his girlfriend is a Night Elf from Kalimdor, you would also take this claim as credible, right? For that matter, I am employed at a very high-ranked university, and I am claiming that I have a T-Rex pet on a leash in my home. Sound credible enough?

    Come on, mate, all of these claims are of the "Nigerian prince" level of trustworthiness.
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987AlofRI
  • linatelinate 34 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    the near death experience happens to everyone in very similar ways. this even happens to people who have never heard of the phenomenon and to kids. to suggest that there is a story embedded in our brain is far fetched. how do you respond?

    the AWARE study was led by doctor sam parnia, who was an atheist and is now a believer. as was said, there was an incident of verified out of body experience. do you just pretend this didn't happen? that's not to mention the other credible stories and studies. how do you respond? 

    do you have any evidence of things that look supernatural and are inexplicable that look like the laws of nature were violated happening to atheists, as there's ample evidence happening to theists? i didn't think so. 

    to compare this all to the nigerian prince scams is just stupid. 
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1076 Pts
    MayCaesar said:
    It seems that all these "credible people" have nothing to offer but verbal testimonies. I would guess that, should someone employed in an Ivy League university claim that his girlfriend is a Night Elf from Kalimdor, you would also take this claim as credible, right? For that matter, I am employed at a very high-ranked university, and I am claiming that I have a T-Rex pet on a leash in my home. Sound credible enough?

    Come on, mate, all of these claims are of the "Nigerian prince" level of trustworthiness.
    If someone wishes to identify as a Night Elf from Kalimdor, who are we to question them?  Haven't you learned anything from the transgender debates?  You're so politically incorrect.
  • linatelinate 34 Pts
    @Dee

    the near death experience happens to everyone in all cultures in very similar ways. this even happens to people who have never heard of the phenomenon and to kids. to suggest that there is a story embedded in our brain is far fetched. how do you respond?

    the AWARE study was peer reviewed led by doctor sam parnia, who was an atheist and is now a believer. as was said, there was an incident of verified out of body experience. do you just pretend this didn't happen? that's not to mention the other credible stories and studies. how do you respond? 

    do you have any evidence of things that look supernatural and are inexplicable that look like the laws of nature were violated happening to atheists, as there's ample evidence happening to theists? i didn't think so. 
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 442 Pts
    edited April 19
    @linate

    On the AWARE study... Out of that data pool of 2,060 participants, the study provides evidence for only one single patient who had what Parnia et al describe as “a verifiable period of conscious awareness during which time cerebral function was not expected.”

    You should notice a conspicuous missing claim in those conclusions.  It’s a claim that many wish was there, and some of whom are mistakenly insisting is there.  Not one participant was able to recount or recall the characters or images on any of the placards.

    That is a very important detail that needs to be driven home.  The AWARE study has not proven the case for NDE’s or OBE’s.

    What it did do is indicate that there’s more study needed.  The two percent of participants who recounted verified detail from periods when conventional science and medicine say they were clinically dead is a truly exciting conclusion.  It means that these few people had some level of consciousness when it shouldn’t have been possible, indicating that there are levels of consciousness and neural activity that are still beyond our ability to measure.

    There are still problems with this methodology however.  Specifically, these results rely on memory.  And as we all know (or should know), human memory is unreliable in the best of conditions, let alone during a traumatic medical procedure.  This certainly doesn’t mean they were wrong, but it opens the door for criticism.  The memories could have been influenced by things that were said and done while the patient was conscious/semi-conscious, or could be manufactured by the assimilation of popular ideas of what occurs in such situations.  There are many reasons why those conclusions are not terribly solid.  But since this is the first study of this kind to ever be conducted, the data and conclusions are invaluable to a great many people.

    Those with an agenda, whether that be to prove or disprove near-death experiences, are undoubtedly going to clash in the wake of this publication.  For the onlooker, the third-party observer, remember that the facts are relatively clear, and all else is ego.

    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • DeeDee 382 Pts


    You say ......
    the near death experience happens to everyone in all cultures in very similar ways.

    My reply ..... Indeed  , yet Muslims have claimed to see Allah , and people of other religions have claimed to see their particular gods why’s that do you think?

    You say ......this even happens to people who have never heard of the phenomenon and to kids. to suggest that there is a story embedded in our brain is far fetched. how do you respond?

    My reply ......But you say it’s “far fetched” but yet Jesus walking on water is not? I’m not a neuroscientist that are the ones who seem to know most on the subject 

    You say .....the AWARE study was peer reviewed led by doctor sam parnia, who was an atheist and is now a believer. as was said, there was an incident of verified out of body experience. do you just pretend this didn't happen? that's not to mention the other credible stories and studies. how do you respond? 

    My reply ....Youre wrong again here is what Parnia actually says in his latest writings .....Dr. Parnia is asked why he suspects NDE is an “illusion”, and a “trick of the mind”.  When pressed, Dr Parnia stated, “…It may well be. You’re pushing and I’m giving you honest answers. I don’t know. If I knew the answers then I don’t think I would have engaged and spent 12 years of my life and so much of my medical reputation to try to do this. Because to appreciate people like me, I risk a lot by doing this sort of experiment. So I’m interested in the answers and I don’t know. Like I said, if I was to base everything on the knowledge that I have currently of neuroscience, then the easiest explanation is that this is probably an illusion.”

    What other credible stories do you have now in the light of this confession?

    You say .....do you have any evidence of things that look supernatural and are inexplicable that look like the laws of nature were violated happening to atheists, as there's ample evidence happening to theists? i didn't think so. 

    My reply .....There’s zero evidence for miracles when you get some present it and I shall dismantle it 
  • @linate
    Supernatural events by definition are unlikely to occur, otherwise, they would be called natural.
    Debate.org is a burning ship in the middle of the ocean. Cast away, before the depraved lunatics there devour you.
    "We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." 
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2019 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
BestDealWins.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch