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born to fear
in Science

By maxxmaxx 81 Pts edited May 26
are we born with just emotion; fear? I contend we are not born with the emotion of love; we just have the ability to learn it. Fear is what we are born with, and all other emotions stem from it, either by adding to or subtracting of the fear. A baby does not automatically love the mother; the mother is a place of comfort that eases the fear, which gives the baby a feeling of comfort which in return leads eventually to love as the child realizes that the closer he bonds with the mother the safer he is and the less fear he has. what do you think?



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  • piloteerpiloteer 427 Pts
    @maxx

    Emotions are chemical reactions that take place within the body. We are born with those chemicals in place. Fear and love are not learned, it's how we react to these emotions that is learnt.
    maxxWinstonC
  • K_MichaelK_Michael 67 Pts
    Fear is also learned to a great extent. Many emotional reactions are instinctual, however.
    maxxZeusAres42
    "We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." 
  • That is a possible theory. I believe that you aren`t because why not be born with happiness if you are with fear. Why not any other feeling?
  • WinstonCWinstonC 98 Pts
    @maxx As piloteer said, our emotions come ultimately from hormones and neurochemicals. In regards to your example of the baby and mother you may find looking up the hormone "oxytocin" of particular interest.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • maxxmaxx 81 Pts
    yes Winston/ oxytocin is a chemical produced by humans and can even be sold as a supplement. In older people(those above puberty) this chemical is called the cuddle chemical for it has properties to make those be more apt to get together and socially interact with one another in a sexual manner. it is also produced in childbirth for the purpose of mother and baby bonding. This is not love/  there is no chemical that produces emotions. you and I both know that love is something that is created and built over time. we are not born with any emotions, however we do have the ability to learn them. Emotions are a learned behavior. Fear in which we are born with is not an emotion, but an instinct. we are not born with love or knowing how to hate or to be jealous and so on. interacting and cuddling with the mother is due to a chemical process for it allays the babies fears and produces a feeling of safety for the child. 

     @WinstonC
  • WinstonCWinstonC 98 Pts
    @maxx "This is not love/  there is no chemical that produces emotions."

    It certainly seems to explain a lot of the mother-child relationship. Of course, no single neurotransmitter or hormone is responsible for love entirely. As with all emotions it's a mixture of several neurotransmitters and hormones. What do you think causes you to have feelings?

    "you and I both know that love is something that is created and built over time."

    This is true, but it's based ultimately on neurochemicals and hormones. I'll put it this way: you are a clump of cells that produces another clump of cells. Why would you care about that other clump of cells?

    "we are not born with any emotions, however we do have the ability to learn them."

    Where are you getting this idea from? A very brief overview of hormones and neurochemicals and their effects on our emotional states is available here (1) or a more in depth view here (2). We certainly learn emotional responses to stimuli based on experience but ultimately the emotions themselves are modulated by neurochemicals and hormones.

    "...knowing how to hate or to be jealous and so on."

    Hatred is related to predator detection, interpersonal conflict and tribal conflict. Sexual jealousy is related to ensuring reproductive success.

    "interacting and cuddling with the mother is due to a chemical process for it allays the babies fears and produces a feeling of safety for the child."

    It also causes the mother to care about the child and makes bonding occur. Further, it appears to play a role in romantic love (3).

    Sources:
    (1) https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201211/the-neurochemicals-happiness
    (2) http://www.neuroanatomy.wisc.edu/coursebook/neuro5(2).pdf
    (3) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3936960/

  • maxxmaxx 81 Pts
    I am sure that I can show you opposing links, but then we would simply have links debating each other. hate is not  due to predatorhttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread816737/pg1 conflict or war.  mainly war is a impersonal thing. and I have yet to see a baby hate or be jealous or be envious. children learn these by social interactions related to fear mainly. a small child is bullied and can not fight back; he learns to hate. emotions are a learned behavior and can even produce the chemicals that produces them.  @WinstonC
  • maxxmaxx 81 Pts
  • WinstonCWinstonC 98 Pts
    edited July 28
    @maxx "I am sure that I can show you opposing links, but then we would simply have links debating each other."

    Psychology is my field. I gave those links because the idea that neurochemicals and hormones are the ultimate cause of emotional reactions (triggered by stimuli, of course) is well founded. It's the basis for medications such as antidepressants, for example. This is not to say that one has no ability to control one's own emotions.

    "http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread816737/pg1"

    Which post are you referring to specifically?

    "I have yet to see a baby hate or be jealous or be envious."

    How would you know that a baby was experiencing envy or jealousy? Surely we would need to do brain-scan studies?

    "emotions are a learned behavior and can even produce the chemicals that produces them"

    We can certainly learn to have emotional responses to certain stimuli and we do have some ability to control them if that's what you mean?

    "https://www.amazon.com/How-Emotions-Are-Made-Secret/dp/0544133315/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1495668125&sr=8-1&keywords=how+emotions+are+made&linkCode=sl1&tag=gregooscicen-20&linkId=4107517badca1573b6aa4bc538519da3"

    I've now read several of Dr Barrett's studies and I thank you for recommending her. I think you're misunderstanding what she means, though.

    I quote (1): "Psychological constructionist approach. A theoretical framework for understanding the ontology of emotions. The psychological constructionist approach assumes that emotion categories such as anger, sadness, fear, and so forth, are common sense categories whose instances emerge from the combination of more basic psychological operations that are the common ingredients of all mental states."

    In other words she's attempting to capture the nuance that is lost with a purely "locationalist" approach. One of many purely locationalist approaches that Barret criticizes is the idea that the amygdala is specifically associated with fear. Instead, she cites research that suggests it is instead associated with recognizing salient stimuli (which is closely related to fear, and necessary for most types of fear). Dr Barrett is also saying that while it makes sense to categorize emotions in the way that we have, it is important to note, for example, that not all fear is the same.

    Sources:
    (1) https://www.affective-science.org/pubs/2012/lindquist-et-al-bbs-2012.pdf
  • maxxmaxx 81 Pts
    http://www.pravdareport.com/society/127526-human_emotions/ pardon any ads and yes links are a bit quicker. When we are born our brains are in a blank like state and if we are born with emotions as you say then they are an instinctive behavior. if that is the case, then children (say at age of 2 or so) would show feelings of sadness at a loss of something, say a pet, instead they cry which is mistaken as sadness, however this crying is a learned behavior from birth. The baby learns that crying will get him what he wants; picked up, fed, cuddled and so on. Emotions are not handed-down like traits through a family line. They either have to be learned or if not, then they are an instinctive action. If so, then are you claiming that love, hate, envy and jealousy are instinctive?@WinstonC
  • WinstonCWinstonC 98 Pts
    @maxx To quote your link: "Thus, for example, if a young child lives in a social milieu devoid of love, it will be deprived of the opportunity to develop the capacity to recognize, experience and offer love, and it will not be able to develop this potential later in life."

    I'd agree that there is certainly an amount of social learning that is necessary in order to have a close enough relationship to feel love. This doesn't mean that you couldn't hormonally and neurochemically alter them with drugs in order to force them to feel love, though. I'd also be interested to see what would happen if such a person had a child, as I would expect hormones and neurotransmitters to be released regardless.

    "if we are born with emotions as you say then they are an instinctive behavior"

    I'm not necessarily saying that we were born with emotions, I'm saying that the emotional states we feel are ultimately caused by hormones and neurochemicals. We are born with the ability to produce and secrete these chemicals in response to our environment (and our perception of our environment).

    "if that is the case, then children (say at age of 2 or so) would show feelings of sadness at a loss of something, say a pet, instead they cry which is mistaken as sadness, however this crying is a learned behavior from birth. The baby learns that crying will get him what he wants; picked up, fed, cuddled and so on."

    I'm sure that this could be the case, but is there any evidence for it?

    "Emotions are not handed-down like traits through a family line."

    If having emotions serves to guide our action in a way that increases our chances of survival and reproduction (which they do) then it makes sense to think that they are evolved.
  • maxxmaxx 81 Pts
    edited July 29
    I think what we are missing is the link between the process. For instance, laughter is instinctive yet the humor that triggers it, is not. What two different people or cultures may find funny can be quite different. So we may be born with the ability to live or hate but have to learn how, to learn the techniques.@WinstonC
    WinstonC
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