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Christians SHOULD convert to Islam
in Religion

By AliAli 15 Pts edited June 2
I will show you that Christians SHOULD convert to Islam especially if you believe in the Bible. 

First lets disscuss how did Islam start:

One night, when the Prophet S.A.W was alone in the cave of Hira'a, there came to him an angel in the form of a man. The angel said to him, “Read!”. “I cannot read”, the Prophet (ﷺ) replied. The angel took hold of him a second time and pressed him until he could not endure it any longer. After letting him go, the angel again said, “Read!”. Again the Prophet (ﷺ) replied “I cannot read”. The angel further embraced him again until he had reached the limit of endurance and said “Read!” for the third time the Prophet (ﷺ) said “I cannot read”. The angel released him and said: 


"Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-" -Sura Al-Alaq, Ayah 1


And if you are wondering why am I mentioning this story you'll figure out later 

The Bible Mentions a very mysterious verse in Isaiah (29;12)

New International Version

Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," they will answer, "I don't know how to read."

New Living Translation
When you give it to those who cannot read, they will say, “We don’t know how to read.” 

English Standard Version
And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

New American Standard Bible 
Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, "Please read this." And he will say, "I cannot read."

King James Bible
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Christian Standard Bible
And if the document is given to one who cannot read and he is asked to read it, he will say, "I can't read



So... its surely talking about a man who can't read but will be handed an important book or document, and if you didn't figure out who was that man then it was Prophet Mohammad S.A.W, and that book is the Holy Qur'an , hence proved that it was revealed to him by God. 


And there many verses in the Quran that show that Christians are wrong and they misunderstood the message of God:
 Surah Al-Ikhlas:

In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.

1. Say, “He is God, the One.
2. God, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is nothing comparable to Him.”
"They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary..."   -Sura Al-Ma'idah, Ayah 17

They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."
-Sura Al-Ma'idah, Ayah 72

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment."

-Sura Al-Ma'idah, Ayah 73


And all of those verses deny that Christ (Peace be upon him) is God or the begotten son of God


So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

-Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 137

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers -  never would the [whole] capacity of the earth in gold be accepted from one of them if he would [seek to] ransom himself with it. For those there will be a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers.

-Sura Aal-E-Imran, Ayah 91


So this proves that Christians  should convert to Islam

If you want to convert don't hesitate and contact me or someone who has alot of knowledge about islam
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Arguments

  • @Ali


    .

    How about cutting right to the chase, why would anyone want to worship a primitive brutal camel humping god named Allah which is as horrific as the Christian's Yahweh/Jesus god?


    ALLAH'S DIRECT AND INSPIRED WORDS THAT HIS FOLLOWERS ARE TO ENGAGE IN:

    “Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them” (Qur’an 47:4) Infidels = anyone that does not believe in the disgusting religion of Islam.

    “Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an." (Qur'an 8:12)

    Allah revealed his will to the angels, saying: "I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers.I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Qu’ran 8, Verse 12)

    "If you do not fight, Allah will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

    "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush." (Surah 9:5)


    RAISE YOUR HANDS IF YOU WANT TO WORSHIP AND FOLLOW THE PASSAGES ABOVE FROM THE SAND FLEA ALLAH GOD OF THE PAGAN FAITH OF ISLAM!



    .



    Ali
  • AliAli 15 Pts

    @21CenturyIconoclast

    Some non-Muslims either through ignorance or Islam-bashing continue taking the verses of the Holy Quran out of context and its history to justify their false propaganda. In order to gain a proper understanding of many  verses in the Holy Quran, it is important to understand and know the historic context of the revelations. So many revelations in the Holy Quran came down to provide guidance to Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and the fellow Muslims based on what they were confronting at that time.

    (47:4) When you meet the unbelievers (in battle), smite their necks until you have crushed them, then bind your captives firmly; thereafter (you are entitled to) set them free, either by an act of grace, or against ransom, until the war ends.8 That is for you to do. If Allah had so willed, He would have Himself exacted retribution from them. (But He did not do so) that He may test some of you by means of others.9 As for those who are slain in the way of Allah, He shall never let their works go to waste.

     The words of this verse as well as the context in which it occurs clearly show that it was sent down after the revelation of the command for fighting and before the actual fighting began. The words, “So when you meet (in battle) those who disbelieve”, indicate that the fighting has not yet taken place and the Muslims are being instructed that when it does take place, what they should do.

    The words of (verse 20 ) in the same surah testify that this Surah was sent down at a time when the command for fighting had already been given in (Surah Al-Hajj, Ayat 39) and (Surah Al- Baqarah, Ayat 190), and the hypocrites of Madinah and the people of the weak faith had been so upset that it seemed as if they were actually facing death.

    Besides,( verses 67-69 of the Surah Al-Anfal )also testify that this verse had been sent down before the Battle of Badr. There it has been said:

    It does not behoove a Prophet to have captives until he has crushed down the enemies in the land. You desire the gains of this world, but Allah desires the Hereafter, and Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise. Had not a decree already been issued by Allah, you would have incurred a severe chastisement in consequence of what you have done. So eat of what you have taken as spoils because it is lawful and pure.

    A careful study of this passage shows that what had displeased Allah on this occasion was that before crushing down the enemy completely in the Battle of Badr, the Muslims had started taking the enemy soldiers as captives, whereas the instruction given to them in Surah Muhammad before the actual fighting was this: When you have crushed them completely, then bind the captives tight. However, as the Muslims had been permitted, among other things in Surah Muhammad, to accept ransom from the prisoners, Allah declared the money taken from the captives of Badr as lawful and did not punish them for that. The words: Had not the decree already been issued by Allah, are clearly pointing to the fact that the command for permission to accept ransom had already been given in the Quran before this event, and obviously, there is no other verse in the Quran beside this verse of Surah Muhammad, which contains this command. Therefore, it will have to be admitted that this verse had been sent down before the above cited verse of the Surah Al-Anfal (For explanation, see (E.N. 49 on Surah Al-Anfal).


    008.012  Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: 
    give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: 
    smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."


    This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims. 

    And when you fight, you strive to kill the enemy during the fight. 
    However, even during the war, Islam has the highest moral law of war. You don't kill children, women or any one who is not fighting with you. 


    And the verse that you mentioned as 9:37 is actually 9:39

    [9:39] If you do not march forth, Allah will chastise you grievously40 and will replace you by another people,41 while you will in no way be able to harm Him. Allah has power over everything.

    40. A general rule of the Islamic conduct has been derived from, “If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment.” When the Muslims are commanded to go to Jihad by a public proclamation from their leader, it becomes an obligatory duty for those who are called upon to do Jihad, whether they belong to any particular group or region. So much so that the faith of those who do not go for Jihad without a genuine excuse becomes doubtful. But even in cases where the Muslims are called upon to go forth for Jihad and there is no command for the compulsory enrollment of every able-bodied Muslim of a particular group or region, it is a religious duty (though not obligatory), and it shall be considered to have been performed even if only some Muslims go forth for it.


    41. That is, “Allah’s work does not depend on you and will be accomplished only if you do it. It is Allah’s grace and bounty that He is affording you the golden opportunity of serving the cause of His Way. Therefore if you miss this opportunity because of any foolish assumption, Allah will raise another people and bestow on them the opportunity and capability of doing His work, and you will be losers”.


    This verse, often called “the verse of the sword”, has been misquoted in a manner similar to the previous verses. First, we shall provide the verse in its context:


    9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.


    Having presented the verse in context, we can analyze it properly. Dr. Maher Hathout gives an explanation on the historical context of the verse:


    This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious. One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. To minimize hostilities, the Qur’an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur’an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added)


    Therefore, this verse once again refers to those pagans who would continue to fight after the period of peace. It clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace and are non-combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations. The command of the verse was only to be applied in the event of a battle. As Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:


    The emphasis is on the first clause: it is only when the four months of grace are past, and the other party show no sign of desisting from their treacherous design by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes - between Faith and Unfaith. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur’an, Text, Translation and Commentary, emphasis added)


    If the pagans would not cease their hostilities towards the Muslims, then they were to be fought, especially since they were living in the land of an Islamic state. 


    So sir what's you excuse now? 





  • AlofRIAlofRI 247 Pts
    Fight, slay, behead, crucify ……… GOD! These religions are brutal! 

    I would rather rely on human compassion and dignity and intelligence, than I would on books of mythology that actually say war is a necessity. We MUST defend our "maker" and his "word" There seems to be only ONE letter between his "WORD" and "S-WORD", and we must live by one, to protect the other.
     I have a big problem finding "love" in either. 

    I recognize the NEED some feel for religion. I also SEE that fewer and fewer feel the need as we gain intelligence about life and our surroundings, including the universe. 

    I'm not that familiar with the Qu' ran (or however one wishes to spell it), but, the Bible, OT especially, seems to be about 1/3rd love and 2/3rds defending that "Lover" with retribution …. 'cause, for some reason, the entity needs our help, when it doesn't commit the mass murder itself. 

    No. I don't think Christians should convert to a beheading religion, stick with crucifixion if you must kill. (Not so much blood).

    Is it Kosher to say … GOD, I'm so glad I'm an atheist!?
    Zombieguy1987
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @AlofRI

    Relying on human compassion, dignity and intelligence is more likely to be a problem than a solution. A man with no restrictions is more likely going to be lead by his pleasures and lusts than acting with an acceptable and a mannerful way.

    Moreover, those wars and orders to fight in these book were nothing more than a way to confront some unjust disbelievers who used to oppress others in the lands. Did you know that those "compassionate" humans where the first people who started killing religious people? Did you know that half of the prophets were killed by these peaceful humans for only trying to assure that there is a God?


    However, there will be some people who try to convince others that everything was created by nothing, and that humans were fish before their "evolution".

    Are you really trying to convince me that this complex universe that keeps on expanding started all by itself?

    If you are really convinced by that, then I assure you that you have some mental issues. 

    Then comes a man with his body which contains 206 bones and 650 muscles, looks up to the sky with his eyes that work perfectly like cameras, and then uses 100 muscles to speak and then say:"There is nothing such as a God..." 
    AlofRIZombieguy1987
  • @Ali

    The one with definitive mental problem is the one who delusions himself about the reality of any divinity...  Religion poisons everything...
    AlofRIZombieguy1987Dee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    @Ali

    Fortunately most Christians today are literate and are able to read the context of the verse you cherry picked. When this verse is read in context, we learn that it is specifically talking about the nation of Israel and that judgement will come upon them if they continue to rebel. It compares the nation and the message that God gave them, to a learned man who is given a book and says I cannot read, i.e. people who refuse to listen to God's message.

    How desperate you must be to try and convert others on the basis of deception, but what can be expected from someone who worships the best of deceivers .

    According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers" (3:54; 8:30). The phrase is often translated into English as "best of planners," "best of schemers," or "best of plotters," but the root word (makr) means "deception." (See wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver)

    And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. (Qur'an 3:54) Are they then secure from Allah's scheme? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme save folk that perish. (Qur'an 7:99)

    The Qur'an attributes to Allah as being the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not beyond using the same evil and wicked plans of his opponents.

    Mohammad is also mentioned in the Bible in Matthew 24:11, "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray."
  • AlofRIAlofRI 247 Pts
    @Ali :

    "I have recently been examining ALL the known superstitions of the world and I do not find, in our particular superstition "Christianity", one redeeming feature. They are ALL alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." * Thomas Jefferson *

    "The purpose of the separation of church and state is to keep, forever from these shores, the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." * James Madison *

    "It is full of interest, it has noble poetry in it and some clever fables, some blood drenched history and some good morals, a wealth of obscenity and upwards of a thousand lies." * Mark Twain * (On the Bible)


    I just thought I'd introduce you to some of my friends, who, apparently, also have "mental issues".  You have a nice day.
    PlaffelvohfenZombieguy1987Dee
  • I support your right to say that, but I just don't want to. Jesus is my God, Lord, and Savior, and I have proof that Jesus is God, for anyone that asks.
    AlofRI
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    edited June 4
    @Ali

    You say ......If you are really convinced by that, then I assure you that you have some mental issues

    My reply .....I would think the “mental Issues “ are with one who elevates a warmongering peadophile  as in Muhammad to the lofty status of “prophet.“

    Also on the same note “mental issues “surely come into play if one is to believe this peadophile split the moon in two or ascended to heaven on a yellow flying  horse 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee
    @Plaffelvohfen ;
    @AlofRI

     I am going to prove to you that God exists in a very simple way.

    Lets suppose that you were shown a new device that you haven't seen before and you were the first person to receive it, How will you know all of its mechanism and the direct purpose of it? It doesn't matter how much will you think of the answer because its the creator of this device.

    And we all know that the universe came to existence by the Big Bang...

    Well... the Qur'an explains in (Ch 21 :V30) about the Big Bang Theory. Who could've mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago??


    Plaffelvohfen
  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    @Ali

    >>Well... the Qur'an explains in (Ch 21 :V30) about the Big Bang Theory. Who could've mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago??

    Who? Who indeed! 

    It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens. (Jer. 10:12)

    This Bible verse is much more specific to the Big Bang, than the Qur'an, which says that things were separated. 

    I would be more concerned with other plagiarized parts of the Qur'an though. Some stories in the Qur'an seem to share an affinity to much earlier pseudepigraphical (fake) gospel sources, such as The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus turns a clay bird into a real one, this is paralleled in the Qur’an 5:110.

    Islam claims that an angel came to Muhammad conveying the messages which were complied in the Qur’an over a 23 year period ending in 632AD. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas dates to the 2nd or 3rd centuries, hundreds of years before the Qur’an, did an angel also convey this false gospel as well?

    Similarities are also found in other apocrypha such as the Protoevangelium of James, Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew and the Arabic Infancy Gospel. This makes it quite clear that the many misunderstandings and errors in the Qur’an are the result of the plagiarisation of more ancient documents that have long been considered to be inauthentic and invalid sources of truth.

    But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Neopesdom

    Jesus Said, "When the Comforter has Come, the Spirit of Truth, he will Teach you All Things"

    And Thus the Trustworthy Spirit has Brought the Qur'an down upon your Heart O Muhammad, as a Detailed Explanation of All Things, and Indeed it is Mentioned in the Former Scriptures

    61:6, Qur'an
    [Remember] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of God to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me -

    John 14:16, Gospel
    [For] I will pray the [Creator], and He will give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.

    John 16:8 - 12, Gospel
    And when he has come, he will expose the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement.
     Of sin, because they do not believe in me; of righteousness, because I go to my [Creator], and you see me no more; of judgement, because the prince of this world is judged.  I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

    John 16:7, Gospel
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send him to you.

    John 15:26, Gospel
    [And] when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the [Creator], [even] the Spirit of Truth, which proceeds from the [Creator], he will testify of me.

    John 14:26, Gospel
    [And] the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the [Creator] will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you.

    John 16:13, Gospel
    [And thus,] when he, the Spirit of Truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak of himself; but whatever he will hear, [that] he will speak, and he will show you things to come."

    53:2 - 5, Qur'an
    [And thus,] your companion has not strayed, nor has he erred,
    nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.  It is not but a revelation revealed, taught to him by One intense in strength -

    26:192 - 197, Qur'an
    Indeed, [the Qur'an] is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
    The Trustworthy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners in a clear Arabic language.  And indeed, it is [mentioned] in the Scriptures of former [peoples].  And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?

    12:111, Qur'an
    [For] there was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was [the Qur'an] a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.

    13:43, Qur'an
    [But] those who have disbelieved say, "You are not a messenger."  Say, "Sufficient is God as Witness between me and you, and [the witness of] whoever has knowledge of the Scripture -

    16:102, Qur'an
    [For] the Holy Spirit has brought [the Qur'an] down from your Lord in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to those in submission [to God]."

    42:52 - 53, Qur'an
    And thus We have revealed to you [O Muhammad] a [Holy] Spirit by Our command.  You did not know what is the Book or [what is] faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants.  And indeed, you guide to a straight path -
    the path of God, to whom belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth.  Unquestionably, to God do [all] matters evolve.

    5:19, Qur'an
    [So] O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our messenger to make clear to you [the religion] after a period [of suspension] of messengers, lest you say, "There came not to us any bringer of good tidings or a warner."  But there has come to you a bringer of good tidings and a warner.  And God is over all things Powerful.

    3:193, Qur'an
    [So say,] "Our Lord, indeed we have heard a Caller [Comforter] calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.  Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and remove from us our misdeeds and let us die with the righteous."

  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    @Ali

    "Muhammad was a narcissist, pedophile, mass murderer, terrorist, misogynist, lecher, cult leader, madman, rapist, torturer, assassin, and a thief." Former Muslim Ali Sina offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove otherwise based on Islamic texts. The reward has gone unclaimed. Ali Sina is an Iranian Ex-Muslim and a strong critic of Islam. Founder of Faith Freedom International, which he describes as a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. - Sina's Challenge

    Uqba bin Abu Muayt
    Uqba harassed and mocked Muhammad in Mecca and wrote derogatory verses about him (cf. Sura 83:13). He was captured during the Battle of Badr in AD 624, and Muhammad ordered him to be executed. "But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?" Uqba cried with anguish. "Hell," retorted the prophet coldly. Then the sword of one of his followers cut through Uqba’s neck. "I saw them all killed and thrown in a well at Badr." - Bukhari, vol. 4, no. 2934; Muslim, vol. 3, nos. 4422, 4424.

    In Tabari VIII 90-96; Ishaq 507-509 an old woman, Umm Qirfa, mocked the Prophet. She was arrested and brutally executed by being quartered. Her daughter was given to Muhammad

    In Tabari VII 101 and Ishaq 483 Muhammad granted permission to murder the Jew Salaam Huqayq. He was in bed when assassins thrust a sword into his belly.

    The killings continue in Ishaq 675-676. Muhammad ordered the assassinations of Al Harith ibn Suwayd ibn Samit, for speaking against him, Abu Afak (120 year old murdered in his sleep for objecting to Samit’s murder), and Assam bint Marwan, who was impaled in her tent while sleeping with her children and pregnant with another child for satirizing Muhammad in her poetry.

    The man tried to stop her repeatedly, "but she did not give up the habit." One night she began to slander the Prophet . . . and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who was between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. The next morning Muhammad was informed of the murder, so he assembled the people and demanded to know who did it. Finally, the blind man stood up, trembling and explained to Muhammad the insults of his slave mother, his human property. He said he even had two sons by her. He told the prophet that he tried to stop her, but she did not desist. He admitted that he killed her. What was Muhammad’s response? "Oh, be my witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood" (Abu Dawud vol. 3, no. 4348).

    Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain. (Qur’an 9:111)

    Muhammad said: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illahllah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.” - Sahih al-Bukhari 6924

    We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with a wild god. - Carl Gustav Jung (1875 – 1961)
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali



    You say ......Lets suppose that you were shown a new device that you haven't seen before and you were the first person to receive it, How will you know all of its mechanism and the direct purpose of it? It doesn't matter how much will you think of the answer because its the creator of this device.


    My reply ......You would assume the maker of the device was human as we have examples of devices made by humans 


    You say ......And we all know that the universe came to existence by the Big Bang...


    My reply .....I don’t know how the Universe came into existence and even if the Big Bang is indeed accepted as the model how does that mean a god was the one responsible for such 


    You say .......Well... the Qur'an explains in (Ch 21 :V30) about the Big Bang Theory. Who could've mentioned this in the Quran 1400 years ago??


    My reply .....The Qur’an does not explain in any way clearly about the Big Bang the Qur’an states the earth is flat  is that accepted also by Muslims if not why not?



    15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

  • AlofRIAlofRI 247 Pts
    @Neopesdom : OMG! Can you imagine Trump complaining about PSEUDEPIGRAPHICAL NEWS!
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee
    Did you know that the Quran says that when the night and the day overlap, they make a ball (sphere):

    [Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?



    The Arabic word "Kura" means ball; its verb "Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ" means to make into a ball. The Quran says that the overlapping of the night and the day makes a ball (sphere).

    How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that Earth is a sphere?

    "ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري)" here the Quran is referring to ALL MOVING, not only the sun and moon but also Earth. In Arabic grammar there is difference between the singular (one), binary (two) and plural (three or more). The reference to binary is "Kulahuma Yajreean كلاهما يجريان" however the Quran said "Kullon yajree كل يجري" referring to the plural (three or more). Since the sun and moon are just two but the Quran refers to three or more then according to the Quran all the three move: sun, moon and Earth.

    How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that all move sun, moon and Earth?

    The Quran says that Earth has a diameter (diameter is simply twice the radius).

    [Quran 55.33] O company of Jinn and man, escape the diameters (اقطار) of the Heavens and the Earth if you can, You won't escape without authority.



    Diameter in Arabic is Kutr قطر. Its plural is Aktar اقطار. Radii and diameters are properties of circles or spheres only. This conforms with the previous verse, to make into a ball [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ].

    How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that Earth is a sphere?

    The rotation of Earth is slowing down, that is, days are getting longer. The Quran says that Allah persistently asks more of the day and more of the night, that is, for the day to get longer:

    [Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne. [Allah] Covers the night with the day, asks for it persistently; and the sun and the moon and the stars enslaved by His orders. Is this not His creation and His command? Blessed be Allah the Lord of all the worlds.



    If God asks more of the day and more of the night then this means the days are getting longer. Physics wise this means that the rotation of Earth should be slowing down. However this is what it really turned out to be, the rotation of Earth is indeed slowing down.

    How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that the days are getting longer?

    "Sateh سطح" in Arabic means surface however this surface can have any shape. It could have the shape of a saddle:
    ,
    This saddle shape is one type of "sateh سطح". It could have any shape but unfortunately "sateh سطح" was mistranslated to flat. Flat in Arabic is "musattah مسطح" however it was not used in the entire Quran.

    [Quran 50.7] And the earth We have spread it out (والارض مددناها), and set thereon mountains standing firm, and have produced therein every kind of lovely pairs (of plants).



    The Quran says that God spread out the Earth 'والارض مددناها' meaning increase in surface area during formation. 'Madda' in Arabic means 'spread out', however it was mistranslated to 'flat'. 

    The Quran says that God spread out Earth, that is, increased the surface area. Our solar system is 4.57 billion years old. Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However during the accretion process the radius of Earth was not spontaneously 6400 km; but rather started a few kilometers long and progressively increased. But the surface area is a function of the radius (surface area = 4πR2), that is, as the radius increases the surface area increases. So the Quran correctly described the surface area as increasing.

    (The Bible says that Earth is a 2 dimensional flat disk and the heaven is like a canopy: Isaiah 40:22. And since Earth is flat then Jesus could see the entire Earth from a single high location Matthew 4:8)


    ?? 
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    edited June 5
    @Ali

    Nonsense , my friend ..........“The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment.”
    —Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, 1993


    Are you saying the supreme religious authority of Saudi does  not understand the Qur’an?


    Muslim people in past time thought the Earth a flat disc here is direct evidence from a book revered by Muslims .....

    Bookmark this item: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/world/earth.html#obj104
  • @Ali
    How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that Earth is a sphere?
    Well, Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the Earth 2200 years ago, so about 800 years before Islam was even a thing... The idea was not new...

    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee

     He was misquoted. He actually said the earth was round, but described it as being flat in the sense that we live on it, and it being spread out for us. But the shape of the earth, itself, as a planet, is round.

    Forces for falsehood always spread the disinformation about Islaam and Glorious Qur’aan. One of their examples is the absurd lie about the flat earth and an alleged Fatawaa. Anti-Islaam forces selects parts of the Islaamic history and/or Qur’aanic teachings treating them as the whole, omitting the entire context from the subject. And then expect people to believe that their claim is true, while the leading parts of and controlling features of the Islaamic and/or Qur’aanic teachings are carefully suppressed. Following is a synopsis of what is being taught by the respected Shaikh Ibn Baaz رحمة الله عليه about the issue in question, which clearly impeaches the lies and slanders against the respected scholar of Islaam.



    The Shaikh Ibn Baaz:According to the people knowledge (scholars of Islaam) the earth is round; for indeed Ibn Hazim and a group of other scholars mentioned that there is a consensus (unanimous agreement, Ijmaa') among the people of knowledge that it is round. This means that all of it is connected together thus making the form of the entire planet like a ball. However, Allaah has spread out surface for us and He has placed firm mountains upon it and placed the animals and the seas upon it as a mercy for us. For this reason, Allaah said: "And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it is spread out (Sutihat)." [Al-Ghaashiyyah (88): 20]

    Therefore, it (the Earth) has been made flat for us in regards to its surface, so that people can live on it and so that people can be comfortable upon it.



    The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat. This is because something that is round and very large, if it is made flat (its surface), then its surface will become very vast or broad (i.e. having a flat appearance). Yes."



    This is the Fatawaa of the Shaikh Ibn Baaz about the earth's flatness and its roundness. So do not listen to those who lie against Islaam, Glorious Qur’aan and Scholars of Islaam. Shaikh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah be always please with him) was not some fool. In fact, such people are liars and slanderers at most, and their sole objective is to obscure and obfuscate the truth.
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    edited June 5
    @Ali

    Nonsense , in his own words below he states the Earth is Flat ,  his stupidity is legendary although in fairness the Qur’an  agrees the Earth is indeed flat.


    The idiot also denied  the Earth rotates and orbits the sun 

     “The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment" - Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, 1993


    In 1966, when Ibn Baz was vice-president of the Islamic University of Medina, he wrote an article denouncing Riyadh Universityfor teaching the "falsehood" that the earth rotates and orbits the sun.[25][26]


    You also did not acknowledge the fact that a famous Islamic book has a map of the world depicting the Earth as Flat like a disc this belief was widely held , how do you explain that?

  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    >>So... its surely talking about a man who can't read but will be handed an important book or document, and if you didn't figure out who was that man then it was Prophet Mohammad S.A.W, and that book is the Holy Qur'an , hence proved that it was revealed to him by God. 

    Allah has surely deceived you Ali, after all Allah is the best of all deceivers.

    According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers" (3:54; 8:30). The phrase is often translated into English as "best of planners," "best of schemers," or "best of plotters," but the root word (makr) means "deception." (See https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver)

    And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. (Kor'an 3:54) Are they then secure from Allah's scheme? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme save folk that perish. (Kor'an 7:99)

    The Kor'an attributes to Allah as being the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not beyond using the same evil and wicked plans of his opponents and apparently his votaries as well.

    Allah is mentioned in the Bible, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)

    And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read” (Isaiah 29:12). 

    Fortunately most Christians today, are literate and are able to read the context of the verse you cherry picked. When this verse is read in context, we learn that it is talking about the nation of Israel and that judgement will come upon them if they continue to rebel. It compares the nation and the message that God gave them, to a learned man who is given a book and says I cannot read, i.e. people who refuse to listen to God's message.

    How desperate you must be to try and convert others on the basis of deception, but what can be expected from someone who follows the best of deceivers .

    Mohammad is mentioned in the Bible,  "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." (Matthew 24:11)

  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    >>So... its surely talking about a man who can't read but will be handed an important book or document, and if you didn't figure out who was that man then it was Prophet Mohammad S.A.W, and that book is the Holy Qur'an , hence proved that it was revealed to him by God. 

    Allah has surely deceived you Ali, after all Allah is the best of all deceivers.

    According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers" (3:54; 8:30). The phrase is often translated into English as "best of planners," "best of schemers," or "best of plotters," but the root word (makr) means "deception." (See https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver)

    And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. (Kor'an 3:54) Are they then secure from Allah's scheme? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's scheme save folk that perish. (Kor'an 7:99)

    The Kor'an attributes to Allah as being the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not beyond using the same evil and wicked plans of his opponents and apparently his votaries as well.

    Allah is mentioned in the Bible, "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)

    And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read” (Isaiah 29:12). 

    Fortunately most Christians today, are literate and are able to read the context of the verse you cherry picked. When this verse is read in context, we learn that it is talking about the nation of Israel and that judgement will come upon them if they continue to rebel. It compares the nation and the message that God gave them, to a learned man who is given a book and says I cannot read, i.e. people who refuse to listen to God's message.

    How desperate you must be to try and convert others on the basis of deception, but what can be expected from someone who follows the best of deceivers .

    Mohammad is mentioned in the Bible,  "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray." (Matthew 24:11)

  • AliAli 15 Pts
    edited June 5
    @Neopesdom
    Reply for Ali Sina Challenge :

    http://nogodbutallah.org/? page_id=465


    Uqba bin Abu Muayt Killing:


    Uqba bin Abi Muayt is portrayed by critics as an innocent Qurayshi polytheist who did not deserve to be dealt with in the battle of Badr. In the following historical sources, we provide dozen or more historical reports where Uqba attempted to murder the Prophet Muhammed (p). Other times where he didn’t succeed in the killing, he would often try and bully the Prophet (p).




    Sahih al-Bukhari (820 – 870 AD):


    Narrated `Urwa bin Az-Zubair: I asked `Abdullah bin `Amr, “What was the worst thing the pagans did to Allah’s Messenger ?” He said, “I saw `Uqba bin Abi Mu’ait coming to the Prophet while he was praying.’ `Uqba put his sheet round the Prophet’s neck and squeezed it very severely. Abu Bakr came and pulled `Uqba away from the Prophet and said, “Do you intend to kill a man just because he says: ‘My Lord is Allah, and he has brought forth to you the Evident Signs from your Lord?” (Sahih al-Bukhari volume 5, Book 57, Hadith 27, https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62/28)


    Sahih al-Bukhari (820 – 870 AD):


    Narrated `Urwa bin Az-Zubair: I asked `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`As to inform me of the worst thing the pagans had done to Allah’s Apostle. He said: “While Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) was praying in the courtyard of the Ka`ba, `Uqba bin Abi Mu’ait came and seized Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) by the shoulder and twisted his garment round his neck and throttled him severely. Abu Bakr came and seized `Uqba’s shoulder and threw him away from Allah’s Apostle and said, “Would you kill a man because he says: ‘My Lord is Allah,’ and has come to you with clear Signs from your Lord?” (40.28) ( Sahih al-Bukhari Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 339, https://sunnah.com/urn/44940 )


    And:


    Narrated `Urwa bin Az-Zubair: I asked Ibn `Amr bin Al-As, “Tell me of the worst thing which the pagans did to the Prophet.” He said, “While the Prophet was praying in the Hijr of the Kaba; Uqba bin Abi Mu’ait came and put his garment around the Prophet’s neck and throttled him violently. Abu Bakr came and caught him by his shoulder and pushed him away from the Prophet and said, “Do you want to kill a man just because he says, ‘My Lord is Allah?'” (Sahih al-Bukhari volume 5, Book 58, Hadith


    Kitab Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra – Ibn Sa’d (784 – 845 AD):


    “They (Quraysh polytheists) were relentlessly engaged in hostility against the Prophet. Night and day, they were obsessed with this single mission of antagonism. Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, and Uqbah Ibn Abi Mu’it were the three most bitter enemies of the lot.” (Kitab Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa’d (Arabic edition) volume 1, page 134)


    Ibn Athir:


    “Uqbah was the bossom chum and confident of Ubayy Ibn Khalaf. One day, Uqbah took a seat in the company of the Prophet attentively listening to the words of the Prophet. When Ubayy learnt of this, he hurried over to Uqbah and voiced his concerns: ‘I learnt that you sat in the company of Muhammad attentively listening to his words. By Allah! Until you do not go and spit on his face, it is haram for me to talk to you and even look at your face.’ Accordingly, the wretched Uqbah rose and ejected his saliva right onto the blessed of the Prophet.” (Ibn Athir, volume 2, page 27)


    At the end, Uqba got killed as a result of his hostility towards the Prophet and the Muslim community in the battle of Badr.


    Umm Qirfa Killing :

    First let me tell you the full story about Umm Qirfa:

    The True Story in Full :

    Here I give the full account as to what actually happened. Reading the accounts of the event given in
    both Sirat Ibn Hisham and Tabaqat Ibn S'ad will help us understand better.

    1- Zaid bin Harith (RA) went on a trading journey to Syria and with him was the merchandise for
    Companions of the Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi'l Qura' he encountered people from the
    Tribe of Badr of Fazara, whose leader was Umm Qirfa. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all they had of merchandise.

    2- Some of his fellows were killed and he himself was carried wounded from the field. Zaid vowed that he would not wash his head for ritual purity (i.e. he vowed to abstain from sexual intercourse) until he
    fought the people of Fazara.

    3- When he recovered from his wounds the Holy Prophet (PBUH) sent him to punish the treacherous people and ordered them to move by the night and rest by the day as a stratagem.

    4- Zaid went and fought the Fazara in Wadi'l Qura, killed some of them. Qais bin Musahhar killed Mas'ada bin Hakama. Umm Qirfa, her daughter and Abdullah bin Mas'ada were taken as prisoners. Zaid ordered Qais bin Musahhar to kill Umm Qirfa and Qais killed her by putting a rope in her two legs, tying it to two camels and driving them in opposite directions until she was killed, ripped apart.

    (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa'd 2/90 & Sirat Ibn Hisham 2/617)

    In Sirat Halbiyya, another source they cite on this issue, it is clearly stated;

    "Zaid bin Harith went on a trading expedition towards Syria and with him was the merchandise for the Companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi'l Qura he met a party from the Tribe of Fazara of Banu Badr. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all that was with them (of merchandize)." (Sirat Halabiyya 2/192)

    5- Further we learn that Umm Qirfa in her capacity of being the tribal leader plotted to harm the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in person (Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtum p. 457). In Sirat Halabiyya it is stated that;

    "Zaid bin Harith ordered the killing of Umm Qirfa for she used to revile the Prophet, on whom be
    peace and blessings of Allah, and because she had prepared thirty riders from amongst he
    children and grand children and had asked them to attack Medina and kill Muhammad (PBUH)."

    (Sirat Halabaiyya 3/251)

    Facts and the Lies!

    Now this clarifies certain points.

    1- It was the Tribe of Fazara, which was headed by Umm Qirfa, who first attacked Muslims who were merely on trading journey.

    2- They killed Muslims and took their merchandise.

    3- Muslims made a counter attack to punish the trigger-happy tribe.

    4- There is no authentic report whether Holy Prophet (PBUH) ordered her killing specifically. Infact it was Zaid bin Harith (RA) who ordered her killing as she was, being the leader of the tribe, responsible for all that happened. And we just read Zaid himself had seen their aggression and merely survived it.

    5- Her killing was perfectly justified as she led her tribe to commit violence against Muslims. She was no innocent a woman and was rather a hostile enemy.

    6- The manner she was killed was not ordained by the Prophet (PBUH) but was carried on by the people who had undergone the terror practiced by her men. It was a reaction by such people; nevertheless it goes against the mannerism taught by Islam. And though such a behavior is deplorable, it is Umm Qirfa herself who is to be held responsible for such a reaction.

    7- No authentic report makes any mention of her head being brought to the Prophet (PBUH) and then paraded in the streets of Medina. This is a myth and a lie! The books these slanderers produce as a reference are no authority as they are not written by trustworthy people and no authentic report in any of the classical books gives even a hint to such a happening.

    The Daughter of Umm Qirfa :

    8- Now coming to the daughter of Umm Qirfa. There are two reports and these liars refer to both of them. According to Sahih Muslim, she was given to Salama bin al-Akwa' and then Holy Prophet (PBUH) took her from Salama and she was given as a ransom for Muslim captives in Makkah. While according to Sirat Ibn Hisham etc she was taken from Salama and then given to Hazn bin Abu Wahb and later bore him a son, Abdul Rahman.

    9. She was not raped : According to Sahih Muslim she was first given to Salama (RA) and he himself
    reports:

    "...we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) met me in the street and said: 'Give me that girl, O Salama!' I said: 'Messenger of Allah, she has
    fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her.' The next day, the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) again
    met me in the street, he said: 'O Salama, give me that girl, May God bless your father.' I said:
    'She is for you. Messenger of Allah! By Allah! I have not yet disrobed her.' The Messenger of
    Allah (PBUH) sent her to the people of Makkah, and surrendered her as ransom for a number of
    Muslims who had been kept as prisoners at Makkah." (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 3299)

    Now one can observe that Salama (RA) said that he had not disrobed her when they reached Medina and again when the Holy Prophet (PBUH) met him in the street he told that he had not disrobed her. And even the next day, after the night having passed, when he was again asked for the girl, he testified that

    he had yet not disrobed her though she fascinated him.

    This is enough proof that Salama didn't forcefully lay with her as it was against the teachings of Islam.
    Islam does not allow a man to forcefully have sexual intercourse with his slave woman, otherwise no could stop Salama from sleeping with a slave girl who fascinated him. And if she later gave birth bore Hazn bin Abu Wahb (RA) a son then it must have been by her own consent. We have seen the conduct
    of pious companion Salama (RA) and there is no reason to say that another pious companion Hazn (RA) would have violated the Islamic injunction and forced the daughter of Umm Qirfa into the intimate
    relation.

    LET ME TURN THE TABLES!
    Indiscriminate killing of women and children :

    "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay
    both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ." (ISamuel 15:3)

    Agreed that the Amalekites were accused of being violent to the Israel on their way out of Egypt but did Fazara, the tribe lead by Umm Qirfa, not do the same to Muslims who were merely on trading journey?
    But still there is difference. Muslims killed only those who fought and plotted against Muslims and even Holy Prophet (PBUH) in person, but why did the 'loving Father' in the Heavens above order the indiscriminate killing of men and women and even infants? Why infant and the suckling? No devil or saint can help the Christians come up with a justification for such cruelty.

    Keep virgin women 'for yourselves' !

    Bible puts the following words into the mouth of Moses (PBUH) alleging that he was inspired by God:

    "Therefore kill all that are of the male sex, even of the children: and put to death the women, that have carnally known men. But the girls, and all the women that are virgins save for yourselves:"

    (Numbers 31:17-18)

    Again why kill children? Were they also accused of deceiving the people of Israel? Why kill even the little ones for your weakness of Faith? Even the learned men of Christianity find no way to justify this barbarism attributed to holy men. Adam Clarke in his commentary to this verse says: "The little ones were safely lodged; they were taken to heaven and saved from the evil to come. " What a justification!
    Reasoning and rationality can only mourn at it.

    But all the girls and all the women that are virgins save for yourselves! ' says the Bible attributing it to Moses (PBUH). What for? Were the virgin women not accused of deceiving the Israel while even the children were? 

    Salaam Huqayq :

    It is the habit of some to be deceiving as well as guilty of oppression and aggression, to the extent that they may even become war criminals. There is no hope to reform such people because they can neither be advised nor intimidated. Hence, it is necessary to purify the community from such evil because their existence will only bring people harm and be a cause for preventing goodness and facilitating evil. Sallaam ibn Abi Al-Huqayq, also known as Abu Raafi’, was one such person. He was a prominent Jewish criminal who took part in the Al-Ahzaab (the confederates) Gathering and provided the participants with the supplies and money they needed, as well as supporting them against the Muslims. Furthermore, he was one of those who would hurt the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, and incite others against the Muslims. It was therefore inevitable that one day he would get what he deserved.


    After getting rid of the Jews of Banu Quraythah, the tribe of Al-Khazraj wanted to have the honor of killing Abu Al-Huqayq just as the tribe of Al-‘Aws had had the honor of killing Ka‘b ibn Al-Ashraf. This is why the tribe of Al-Khazraj sent a group of men from Banu Salamah, under the leadership of ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him, to kill Abu Al-Huqayq after they had taken the permission of the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – and this took place in the fifth Hijri year. 


    Before sunset, ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him, and his companions moved from Madeenah towards the fort of Abu Raafi’ which was in the place where he stayed in Khaybar, in Al-Hijaaz. After sunset, he and his companions, may Allah be pleased with them, approached the fort while the Jews were driving their cattle and mounts inside the fort after returning from pasture.


    ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him, said to his companions, "Stay in your place and I will go and talk to the doorman to let me enter the fort." When ‘Abdullaah, may Allah be pleased with him, approached the door, he found the Jews occupied, trying to find a donkey they had lost. ‘Abdullaah, may Allah be pleased with him, seized the opportunity and slipped inside the fort disguised. Having entered the fort, he looked for a safe place to hide. He found a donkey stall beside the door of the fort and he hid there.


    When the Jews entered the fort, ‘Abdullaah, may Allah be pleased with him, watched the doorman carefully to see where he would place the keys. Later, he picked up the keys and moved towards the house of Abu Raafi‘ and started to open the doors that lead to it. On his way, he would shut behind himself every door he had opened until he approached his location. He found him in a high place in the fort that no one could reach except by using a ladder. Having reached his house, he found it very dark and Abu Al-Huqayq was sitting with his family. ‘Abdullaah, may Allah be pleased with him, could not recognize him and so he called him by his name and tried to strike him with his sword - however, he did not succeed the first time. Then, he tried again and called him for the second time, this time in a different tone of voice. He finally managed to kill him without harming his wife or any of his children.


    ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Having killed him, I rushed out of his house and started to open the doors, one after another, until I reached the ladder. While I was climbing down, I mistakenly let my foot drop, thinking that the ground was close. However, I fell and broke my leg, so I tied it with my turban." Ibn ‘Is-Haaq, may Allah have mercy upon him, stated that ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him, had poor eyesight. Also, according to another narration of this story that is to be found in Saheeh Al-Bukhari, he said "and my leg was dislocated" rather than broken.


    He endured the pain and continued on until he reached his brothers. When they returned to the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, and told him what had happened, he said to ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Ateek, may Allah be pleased with him: "Stretch out your leg." ‘Abdullaah continued his narration, "So I stretched it out and the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, wiped it with his hand - and there was then nothing wrong with it!" He added, "It was as if nothing had happened to it!" This was narrated by Al-Bukhari, may Allah have mercy upon him.


    On that occasion, the Poet of Islam, Hassaan Ibn Thaabit, may Allah be pleased with him, praised the Ansaar and their courage due to them killing both Ka'b Al-Ashraaf and Ibn Al-Huqayq.


    This is the usual end for the aggressors and oppressors, and the suitable reward for treachery and betrayal. It is the only effective treatment for this type of people. It was in this way that the Muslims got rid of this Jewish criminal, his death being a lesson and a deterrent for others.


    Al Harith Bin Suwayd:


    The reason Al-Harith bin Suwayd al-Ansari was killed is that he took the life of some people unlawfully. Hence, he was killed for this crime.


    Ibn Ishaq:


    THE JEWS ARE JOINED BY ANSARI HYPOCRITES

    The following hypocrites from al-Aus and al-Khazraj joined the Jews according to information given me. God knows best about the truth. From Aus of the section of B. Amr b. Auf b. Malik of the subdivision Laudhan b. Amr. Auf: Zuwayy b. al-Harith. From Hubayb b. Amr b. Auf: Julas b Suwayd b. al-Samit and his brother al-Harith. Julas was one of those who withdrew from the apostle in the raid on Tabuk. He said, ‘If this man is right we are worse than donkeys.’ Umayr b. Sa’d, one of them, who was closely related to Julas, he having married his mother after his father’s death, reported what he had said to the apostle. But first he said to Julas: ‘You are dearer to me than any man, the most generous to me, and it it is most painful to me that anything should happen to upset you; but you have said words which if I repeat them I shall bring shame upon you, and if I keep silence I shall bring my religion into peril. One is preferable to the other. Then he went to the apostle and told him what Julas had said. Julas swore by God that he had not said the words attributed to him by Umayr. And God sent down concerning him: ‘They swear by God that they not say, when they did actually say, words of unbelief and did disbelieve after they had surrendered themselves. They planned what they could not carry out and they had nothing to avenge but that God and His apostle had enriched them by Hus bounty. If they repent it will be better for them; and if they turn back God will afflict them with a painful punishment in this world and the next. In this world they have no friend or helper’ (295).

    It is alleged that he repented and was known to be a good Muslim. His brother al-Harith who killed al-Mujadhdhar b. Dhiyad al-Balawi and Qays b. Zayd one of B. Dubay’a at Uhud, went out with the Muslims. He was a hypocrite, and when battle was joined he fell upon these two men, killed them, and attached himself to Quraysh (296).


    Mu’adh b. Afra killed Suwayd treachersly when there was no war. He shot him with an arrow before the battle of Bu’tah. The apostle-so they say-had ordered Umar to kill him if he could get hold of him, but he escaped and got to Mecca, Then he sent to his brother Julas asking for forgiveness so that he might return to his apostle. 


    Muhammad Ibn Abdul W.


    Ibn Ishaq said: ‘Among those of the hypocrites who were named for us from Al-Aws and Al-Khazraj were: Zuwayy Ibn Al-Harith and Al-Harith Ibn Suwaid Ibn As-Samit.’

    Ibn Hazm said: The messenger of Allah killed him in retaliation (for someone whom he had unlawfully killed).


    Abu Afak:

    Where is The Isnâd?

    According to Ibn Sa'd and Ibn Ishâq, Abu 'Afak was a 120 years old Jewish man who had abused the Prophet(P) verbally, so the latter launched a raid under the command of Salîm Ibn 'Umaîr to kill him. We do know that Ibn Ishâq lived in the 2nd half of the 2nd century after Hijra, as well as Al-Waqîdî from whom Ibn Sa'd (died 230 A.H.) copied the story of Abu 'Afak.

    As explained above, the chain of reporters of the story from eye-witnesses of the event till Ibn Ishâq or Al-Waqîdî must be examined and verified. So, our legitimate question is: where is the isnâd (i.e., chain of reporters)?

    Unfortunately, references of the Sîrah do not provide such information. Actually, we are told that this story has no isnâd at all; neither Ibn Ishâq (or his disciple Ibn Hîsham) nor Al-Waqîdî (or his disciple Ibn Sa'd) had provided such a thing! In this case, the story is rated by hadîth scholars as "...of no basis", indicating that it has reached the lowest degree of criticism regarding its isnâd. This is in fact a proper scientific position because we cannot accept such a problematic story without evidence.

    In brief, we have no commitment to accept such a baseless story - according to scientific criteria of hadîth criticism - which strangely had appeared in the 2nd half of the 2nd century after Hijra. We are therefore obliged to reject the story of the killing of Abu 'Afak by Salîm Ibn 'Umaîr at the Prophet’s command.


    Asma Bint Marwan:


    Asma bint Marwan:

    As for the report about the slaying of ‘Asma bint Marwaan that is propagated by these liars, it is a fabricated report. It was narrated by al-Qadaa‘i in Musnad ash-Shihaab (856), al-Khateeb in at-Tareekh (13/99), Ibn ‘Asaakir in his Tareekh (51/244), and Ibn ‘Umar al-Harbi in his Fawaa’id (50), all via Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaaj al-Lakhami Abu Ibraaheem al-Waasiti from Mujaalid ibn Sa‘eed from ash-Sha‘bi from Ibn ‘Abbaas, who said:

    A woman from Banu Khatamah wrote poetry lampooning the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and news of that reached the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and upset him. He said: “Who will deal with her for me?” A man from among her people said: I will, O Messenger of Allah! She was a seller of dates, so he went to her and said to her: Do you have any dates? She said: Yes. So she showed him some dates, and he said: I want something better than this. So she went inside to show him and he followed her and looked right and left, but he did not see anything except a small table, and he kept hitting her head with it until he killed her. Then he went to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allah, I have taken care of her for you. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.”

    This woman was ‘Asma bint Marwaan.

    This is an invalid isnaad and a fabricated report that was narrated by Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaaj of whom al-Bukhaari said: His hadeeth is to be rejected. Ibn Ma‘een said: (He is) an evil liar. Ad-Daaraqutni said: (He is) a liar; and on one occasion he said: He is not trustworthy.

    Mizaan al-I‘tidaal, 3/509

    Ibn ‘Adiyy said: Muhammad ibn al-Hajjaaj fabricated the hadeeth about the woman who used to lampoon the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), according to which when she was killed he (allegedly) said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.”

    End quote from al-Mawdoo‘aat by Ibn al-Jawzi 3/18

    This hadeeth was also mentioned by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allah have mercy on him) in ad-Da‘eefah (6013); he said it is fabricated (mawdoo‘).

    It was narrated by al-Waaqidi in al-Maghaazi (p. 173) and via him by al-Qadaa‘i (858): ‘Abdullah ibn al-Haarith told me, from his father, that ‘Asma bint Marwaan, from Banu Umayyah ibn Zayd, was married to Yazeed ibn Zayd ibn Hisn al-Khatmi. She used to revile the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), criticise Islam and incite people against the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). When news of what she said and her incitement of the people reached ‘Umayr ibn ‘Adiyy ibn Kharashah ibn Umayyah al-Khatmi, he said: O Allah, I make a vow to You that I shall kill her if You grant a safe return to Madinah to the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) – as the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was in Badr at that time. When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) came back from Badr, ‘Umayr ibn ‘Adiyy came to her in the middle of the night and entered upon her in her house when she had a group of her children sleeping around her, including an infant who was still being breastfed. He reached out to touch her and found the infant whom she was breastfeeding. He pushed the child aside then he plunged his sword into her chest until it came out of her back. Then he went out and prayed Fajr with the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in Madinah. When the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) finished praying, he looked at ‘Umayr and said: Did you kill the daughter of Marwaan? He said: Yes, may my father be sacrificed for you, O Messenger of Allah.

    ‘Umayr was afraid that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) would not approve of his killing her, so he said: Is there any sin on me for that, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “The validity of what you have done is something that no one could dispute.” And this is the first time I heard this phrase from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). ‘Umayr said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) turned to those who were around him and said: “If you want to see a man who supported Allah and His Messenger, then look at ‘Ubayr ibn ‘Adiyy.”

    End quote.

    This is a worthless isnaad. Imam Ahmad said concerning al-Waaqidi – whose name was Muhammad ibn ‘Umar ibn Waaqid – : He is a liar; he alters hadeeths. Ibn Ma‘een said: He is not trustworthy. On one occasion he said: His hadeeth is not to be written down. Al-Bukhaari and Abu Haatim said: He is matrook (rejected). Abu Haatim and an-Nasaa’i said: He fabricates hadeeth. Ibn ‘Adiyy said: His hadeeths are odd and problematic. Ibn al-Madeeni said: al-Waaqidi fabricates hadeeth.

    Mizaan al-I‘tidaal, 3/663

    An-Nasaa’i said: The liars who are known for fabricating hadeeth are four: Ibraaheem ibn Abi Yahya in Madinah, al-Waaqidi in Baghdad, Muqaatil in Khorasan and Muhammad ibn Sa‘eed in Syria.

    End quote from Tahdheeb at-Tahdheeb, 9/163.




    --VERSE 9:111--


    [9:111] Surely Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their belongings and in return has promised that they shall have Paradise.106 They fight in the Way of Allah, and slay and are slain. Such is the promise He has made incumbent upon Himself in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur'an.107 Who is more faithful to his promise than Allah? Rejoice, then, in the bargain you have made with Him. That indeed is the mighty triumph.
    106. In this verse that aspect of the Islamic faith which determines the nature of the relationship between Allah and His servants has been called a transaction. This means that faith is not merely a metaphysical conception but is, in fact, a contract by which the servant sells his life and possessions to Allah and in return for this accepts His promise that He would give him the Garden in the life after death. In order to comprehend the full implications of this transaction, let us first understand its nature.

    We should note it well at the outset that, in reality, this transaction is not in regard to the actual selling of the life and possessions of the servant to Allah in the literal sense, for Allah is in fact the real Owner of man’s life and possessions. Allah alone has the right of ownership because He is the Creator of man and of everything he possesses and uses. Therefore there is no question at all of selling and buying in the worldly sense; for man possesses nothing of his own to sell, and Allah has no need to buy anything because everything already belongs to Him. However, there is one thing which has entirely been entrusted to man by Allah, that is, the freedom of will and the freedom of choice, and the transaction concerns that thing.

    Of course, it is true that this freedom does not make any change in the real position of man with regard to the right of ownership to his own life and his possessions. They belong to Allah Who has delegated to him only the authority to use or abuse these things as he wills, without any coercion or compulsion from Him. This means that man has been given the freedom to acknowledge or not to acknowledge that Allah is the owner of his life and property. The transaction mentioned in Ayat 111 is concerning the voluntary surrender of this freedom to Allah’s will. In other words, Allah wills to test man whether he acknowledges the ownership of Allah over his life and property, in spite of that freedom, and considers himself to be their trustee only, or behaves as if he were their owner and so could do whatever he liked with them.

    Thus, the terms of this transaction from Allah’s side are these: “If you voluntarily, and not by compulsion or coercion, agree to acknowledge that your life, your property and everything in this world, which in fact belong to me, are mine: And if you consider yourself only as their trustees; And if you voluntarily surrender the freedom I have given you to behave; And if you, in a dishonest way do not intend to become their master and owner; Then, I will give you in return, Gardens in the eternal life of the next world”. The one who makes this bargain with Allah is a believer, for faith is in fact the other name for making this bargain. On the other hand, the one who refuses to make this bargain, or after making it adopts the attitude of the one who has not made the bargain, is a kafir. For, technically, kufr is the term applied to the refusal to make this bargain.

    The following are the implications of making this transaction:

    (1) Allah has put man to two very hard tests in this matter. The first is whether he acknowledges the real Owner as owner, in spite of the freedom of choice given to him. Or he refuses this and becomes ungrateful, treacherous and rebellious. The second test is whether he puts his trust in his God or not. And he surrenders his freedom and sacrifices his desires and wishes in this present world in return for His promise of the Gardens and eternal bliss in the next world. Even though the world were to proclaim, “A bird in hand is worth two in the bush”.

    (2) This matter helps to draw a clear line of demarcation between the legal conception of the Islamic faith and the higher and spiritual one according to which Allah will judge one in the Hereafter.

    According to its legal conception, the mere verbal profession of the articles of the faith is a sufficient proof that one is legally a Muslim and after this no jurist is authorized to declare such a one to be a disbeliever or to expel one from the fold of the Islamic community, unless there is a definite and clear proof that the one made a false profession of the faith. But this is not so with Allah. Allah considers the faith of only that person to be true, who makes this bargain with Him and sells his freedom of thought and action to Him and gives up his entire claim to ownership in His favor. That is why a man might profess the articles of the faith and observe the prescribed obligatory duties, but if he considered himself alone to be the master and owner of his body and soul, his heart and brain and his other faculties, his property and his resources and other things in his possession, and reserved to himself the right of expending them as he willed, he shall be regarded a disbeliever in the sight of Allah, even though he should be regarded a believer in the sight of the world. This is because such a man has not made that bargain with God which is the essence of the faith according to the Quran. The very fact that a man does not expend his life and property in the way Allah approves of, or expends these in the way He disapproves, shows that the one who claimed to profess the faith either did not sell these to Allah, or after having made the transaction still regarded himself to be their master and owner.

    (3) The above conception of the Islamic faith draws a clear line of demarcation between the attitude of a Muslim and that of a disbeliever towards life. The Muslim, who sincerely believes in Allah, surrenders himself completely to Allah’s will, and does nothing whatsoever which may show that he is independent in his attitude, except when he temporarily forgets the terms of the bargain he has made with Him. Likewise no community of the Muslims can collectively adopt an independent attitude in political, cultural, economic, social and international matters and still remain Muslim. And if sometimes it temporarily forgets its subordinate position and its voluntary surrender of its freedom, it will give up the attitude of independence and readopt the attitude of surrender, as soon as it becomes aware of its error. In contrast to this, if one adopts the attitude of independence towards Allah and makes decisions about all the affairs of life in accordance with ones own wishes, whims and caprices, one shall be regarded to have adopted the attitude of disbelief, even though one was a Muslim or a non-Muslim.

    (4) It should also be noted well that the will of God to which a man is required to surrender himself is that which is specified by Allah himself and not the one which the man himself declares to be the will of God. For in the latter case one does not follow God’s will but one’s own will, which is utterly against the terms of the transaction. Only that person (or community) who adopts the attitude that conforms to the teachings of His Book and His Messenger, shall be deemed to have fulfilled the terms of the transaction.

    From the above implications of this transaction, it also becomes clear why the fulfillment of the terms by Allah has been deferred to the next world after the termination of the life of this world. It is obvious that the Garden is not the return for the mere profession that the buyer has sold his life and property to Allah but it is the actual surrender of these things in the worldly life and their disposal by him as a trustee of Allah according to His will. Thus, this transaction will be completed only when the life of the buyer comes to an end in this world and it is proved that after making the bargain, he went on fulfilling the terms of the agreement up to his last breath. For then and there alone, he will be entitled to the recompense in accordance with the terms of the transaction.

    It will also be worthwhile to understand the context in which this matter has been placed here. In the preceding passage, there was the mention of those people who failed in the test of their faith and did not make the sacrifice of their time, money, life and interests for the sake of Allah and His Way, in spite of their professions, because of their negligence or lack of sincerity or absolute hypocrisy. Therefore after criticizing the attitudes of different persons and sections, they have been told in clear words the implications of the faith they had accepted: “This is not the mere verbal profession that there is God and He is One, but the acceptance of the fact that He is the Owner and the Master of your lives and possessions. Therefore, if you are not ready and willing to sacrifice these in obedience to the command of Allah, but expend these and your energies and resources against the will of Allah, it is a clear proof that you were false in your profession of the faith. For, the true believers are those who have truly sold their persons and possessions to Allah, and consider Him to be their Owner and Master, and expend their energies and possessions without any reservations, where He commands them to expend, and do not expend the least of these where He forbids them to expend.

    107. Some critics say that the statement of promise in the Torah and the Gospel is not confirmed by these Books. Their objection in regard to the Gospel is obviously wrong for even in the existing Gospels there are sayings of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) that confirm this verse. For instance:

    “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (MAT. 5: 10).

    “He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” (MAT. 10: 39).

    “And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life.” (MAT. 19: 29).

    It is, however, true that the matter of this transaction is not confirmed in its entirety by the existing Torah. For instance, there is a mention of the first part of the bargain at several places in one forth or the other: “Is not He thy father that hath bought thee? hath He not made thee, and established thee?" (DEUT. 32: 6).

    "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." (DEUT. 6: 4-5).

    But as regards the other part of the bargain, that is, the promise of the Gardens, they applied it to the land of Palestine:

    “Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.” (DEUT. 6: 3).

    This is because the Torah does not give any conception of the life-after-death, the Day of Judgment, rewards and punishments in the Hereafter, though this creed has always been an inseparable part of the right way. This does not, however, mean that the Torah did not originally contain this creed. The fact is that the Jews had become so materialistic during the period of their degeneration that they had no other idea of a reward from God than the wellbeing and prosperity in this world. Therefore they perverted all the promises made by God in return for man’s service and obedience to Him and applied those to the land of Palestine.

    In this connection, it should also be noted that the abovementioned changes became possible because the original Torah had been tampered with in several ways. Some portions were taken away from it and others were added to it. Thus, the Torah in the existing form is not purely the word of God but also contains the comments, etc. of the Jewish scholars mixed up with it. So much so that at some places it becomes difficult to distinguish the word of God from the Jewish traditions, their racial prejudices, their superstitions, their ambitions and, wishes, their legal interpretations, etc. all of which have gotten mixed with the word of God.

    -----Hadith from Sahih Al Bukhari 6924 


    Firstly, the hadith as you present it is mistranslated. It does not say, “I was ordered to kill…”, rather it says, “I was ordered to fight.” There is a huge difference between the two words. Killing (qatl) is one-directional, whereas fighting (qital) implies mutuality, i.e., that there are two sides fighting each other. [Dr. Bouti, Jihad fil Islam]


    Moreover, this hadith does not apply to all non-believers: the word “people” (nas) used in the hadith is restricted by other texts of the Qur’an and sunna, and is therefore understood to refer only to Arab polytheists.








    .....As long as you ask I'll respond to you, and do you know why?


    That's because I know that my religion is complete and perfect, and deep down there, you know it too... 

    Plaffelvohfen
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Neopesdom

    So if Allah S.w.t is evil and a liar then Jesus is just another liar... 

    (Sahih International)
    That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

    -Sura Maryam, Ayah 34
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee


    Still not convinced about what he REALLY said...
    Understand it the way you like but I have proved to you earlier that the Qur'an assured that the earth is round so still you haven't proved me wrong...


  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 446 Pts
    edited June 5
    Do you have contempt for all other faiths and those that have no faith at all? Do you all so believe that all other faiths and nonfaiths that are not part of Islam will or should all suffer in Hell?
    Plaffelvohfen

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    You say ....

    Still not convinced about what he REALLY said...

    My reply .....I gave you what he REALLY SAID in his own words are you saying he’s lying?

    He also believed man did not go to the the moon and the Earth did not orbit the Sun or do you deny this also?

    You say ......Understand it the way you like

    My reply .....I understand going on the mans exact words it’s you who out of embarrassment is attempting to re invent what’s uncomfortable 

    You say ......but I have proved to you earlier that the Qur'an assured that the earth is round so still you haven't proved me wrong...

    My reply .....You proved nothing , you attempted to reinterpret what the qur’an actually says more than once “spread out like a carpet ‘remember?

    Also I gave you a link to a book from the time of Muhammad with a map depicting the Earth as Flat like a disc you keep avoiding this ,the qur’an is wrong and it’s a book full of such nonsense and contradictions......you’ve been roundly beaten accept it and move on 
    PlaffelvohfenAli
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @ZeusAres42


    I have no contempt for those who are non-Muslims. Actually I feel sorry for them because most of them get to only see the fabricated side of Islam like ISIS, etc...And in Islam no one should go to hell because of his beliefs unless he received the message of Islam, and whoever didn't recieve it should never go to hell because of his beliefs because thats considered oppression, and Allah never oppressed anyone at all...
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 446 Pts
    Ali said:
    @ZeusAres42


    And in Islam no one should go to hell because of his beliefs unless he received the message of Islam
    Care to elaborate a bit more on this particular message of Islam?

    The unexamined thought is not worth thinking.

  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    “And never would We punish until We sent a messenger“
    --- Israa (17:15)
    "Whoever does righteousness -  it is for his [own] soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.'' 
    -Sura Fussilat, Ayah 46


    " And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, "Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say, "Yes, but the word of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers." 
    -Sura Az-Zumar, Ayah 71



    "..... Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers(of hell) will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?"
    -Sura Al-Mulk, Ayah 8



    Everyone who hears the message  Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence aginst him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly. And Allaah is All-Seer of His slaves. 
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee


    “Do you not see that Allah causes the night to enter the day and causes the day to enter the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term, and that Allah , with whatever you do, is Acquainted?” [Al-Qur’an 31:29]

    Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

    The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:

    “He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver.” [Al-Qur’aan 39:5]

    The Arabic word used here is “Kawwara” meaning ‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.

    The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

    “And the earth, moreover, Hath He made egg shaped.” [Al-Qur’aan 79:30]

    (The Arabic word dahaha has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as “vast expanse”, which also is correct. The word “dahaha” also means an ostrich-egg)

    The Arabic word for egg here is “dahaha”, which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’aan correctly describes the shape of the earth .

    Its proved again yet this guy thinks that if a muslim interprets anything wrongly then all of the religion is wrong.The truth is bitter but it has to be accepted... 


  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    edited June 6



  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    @Ali

    That's a lot of verbiage, the batteries in my mouse failed as I was scrolling down your post!  :smiley:

    For the sake of this particular debate, I think we need to establish something before we continue. I see you mentioned (Sahih International) in one of the Qur'an quotes you made, do you know which of the over 31 different Arabic Qur'ans that this is based upon? Also which version of Islam are you promoting? I believe the Hadith or somewhere says that there are 73 different ones and that only 1 is correct?


    >>So if Allah S.w.t is evil and a liar then Jesus is just another liar... 

    That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute. -Sura Maryam, Ayah 34

    When the Qur'an talks about Christians being confused and misguided, it is not talking about all Christians everywhere.

    “And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? (Qur'an 5:116)

    There could of been a cult somewhere out there that believed that Mary, Jesus, and Allah were three gods. I agree that if that is what they believed they were certainly mistaken and liars. 
  • NeopesdomNeopesdom 36 Pts
    Sorry for double posts, but getting this error,

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  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    edited June 6
    @Ali



    You say ......”Do you not see that Allah causes the night to enter the day and causes the day to enter the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term, and that Allah , with whatever you do, is Acquainted?” [Al-Qur’an 31:29]


    Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.



    My reply .....Your knowledge of the Qur’an is weak and you’re taking the typical Muslims apologist route which I anticipated, I’ve already destroyed your claims and I’ve sent you a link to an ancient book depicting a  flat Earth from the time of Muhammad , yet again you fail to acknowledge this as you know it’s destroyed your weak assertions.


    You say .....


    The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:


    “He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver.” [Al-Qur’aan 39:5]


    The Arabic word used here is “Kawwara” meaning ‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.


    The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:


    “And the earth, moreover, Hath He made egg shaped.” [Al-Qur’aan 79:30]


    (The Arabic word dahaha has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as “vast expanse”, which also is correct. The word “dahaha” also means an ostrich-egg)


    The Arabic word for egg here is “dahaha”, which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’aan correctly describes the shape of the earth .




    My reply.......This clearly demonstrates you have little knowledge of language or indeed the Qur’an you seem to make it up as yo go along , let me help by correcting your deeply flawed narrative.........



    والارضمددناهاوالقينافيهارواسيوانبتنافيهامنكلشئموزون

    Waal-arda madadnaha waalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin

    And the earth We have spread out(like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. 

    Quran 15:19




    الذيجعللكمالارضمهداوسلكلكمفيهاسبلاوانزلمنالسماءماءفاخرجنابهازواجامننباتشتى

    Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-arda mahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta

    He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others. 

    Quran 20:53





    والارضفرشناهافنعمالماهدون

    Waal-arda farashnaha faniAAma almahidoona

    And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)! 

    Quran 51:48



    Sarwar:After this, He spread out the earth, [13] 


    Shakir:And the earth, He expanded it after that. [13] 


    Arberry:and the earth-after that He spread it out, [13] 


    Pickthal:And after that He spread the earth, [13] 


    Yusuf Ali:And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); [13] 



    One of the meanings of dahaha is to 'throw' and that is the derivation of the words 'almadahi and udhiyatun'. It is not anything to do with their shape. In any case, the contention that almadahi and udhiyatun conveys the concept of roundness which they link to the root of dahaha is false for the reason that the 'roundness' of the almadahi and udhiyatun is only in two dimensions. The almadahi is round like a piece of Arab bread (i.e. shaped like a disc) and the udhiyatun is also round in two dimensions.




    In Arabic, each word must be derived from its root. The root usually consists of three letters that can be manipulated, by adding vowels, prefixes and suffixes in order to produce different words with different meanings. For example, "ka-ta-ba" (to write) is the root for many words such as kitab (book), maktaba (library), katib (author), maktoob (written), kitabat (writings) et cetera.

    Let's now take the word claimed to mean egg of an ostrich, "Duhiya". This word is nota root. It is a noun and is derived from "da-ha-wa" (دحو)[18], the same root that the verb "dahaha" (دَحَىٰهَآ) in 79:30 comes from (the 'ha' at the end there is just a pronoun suffix meaning 'it'). Furthermore, Duhiya does not even mean the egg of an ostrich. This is what the most respected dictionaries have to say on this subject:


    الأُدْحِيُّوالإدْحِيُّوالأُدْحِيَّةوالإدْحِيَّةوالأُدْحُوّةمَبِيضالنعامفيالرمل, وزنهأُفْعُولمنذلك, لأَنالنعامةتَدْحُوهبرِجْلهاثمتَبِيضفيهوليسللنعامعُشٌّ. ومَدْحَىالنعام : موضعبيضها, وأُدْحِيُّهاموضعهاالذيتُفَرِّخفيه.ِ

    Translation: Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa:The place in sand where an ostrich lays its egg. That's because the ostrich spreads out(تَدْحُوه, tadhooh) the earth with its feet then lays its eggs there, an ostrich doesn't have a nest.

    الدَّحْوُالبَسْطُ. دَحَاالأَرضَيَدْحُوهادَحْواًبَسَطَها. وقالالفراءفيقولهوالأَرضبعدذلكدَحاهاقال : بَسَطَها ; قالشمر : وأَنشدتنيأَعرابية : الحمدُللهالذيأَطاقَا

    بَنَىالسماءَفَوْقَناطِباقَا

    ثمدَحاالأَرضَفماأَضاقا

    قالشمر : وفسرتهفقالتدَحَاالأَرضَأَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشدابنبريلزيدبنعمروبننُفَيْل : دَحَاها, فلمارآهااسْتَوَتْ

    علىالماء, أَرْسَىعليهاالجِبالا

    ودَحَيْتُالشيءَأَدْحاهُدَحْياًبَسَطْته, لغةفيدَحَوْتُه ; حكاهااللحياني. وفيحديثعليّوصلاتهِ, اللهمدَاحِيَالمَدْحُوَّاتِيعنيباسِطَالأَرَضِينَومُوَسِّعَها, ويروى ; دَاحِيَالمَدْحِيَّاتِ. والدَّحْوُالبَسْطُ. يقال : دَحَايَدْحُوويَدْحَىأَيبَسَطَووسع 

    Translation: To daha the earth: means to spread it out. Then it mentions a couple of Arabic poems that confirm this meaning. Anyone who can read Arabic will find this to be the definitive proof that Daha means to spread out.

    Al Qamoos Al Muheet

    (دَحَا): اللهالأرضَ(يَدْحُوهَاوَيَدْحَاهَادَحْواً) بَسَطَها

    Translation: Allah daha the Earth: He spread it out.

    Al Waseet

    دَحَاالشيءَ: بسطهووسعه. يقال: دحااللهُالأَرض 

    Translation: To daha something: means to spread it out. For example: Allah daha the Earth.


    Dahw (دحو)

    1. Daha (., MM_b;,, 1,) first pers. Dahouth aor, yad'hoo inf. N. dahoo He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended;(S, Msb, K; ) a thing; (K; ) and, when said of God, the earth; (Fr, S, Mb, 1V; ) As also daha first pers. dahaithu (K in art. daha) aor. yaad’heae inf. n. dahae: (Msb, and K in art. dahae : ) or He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; as explained by an Arab woman of the desert to Sh: (TA : ) also, said of an ostrich, (S, TA,) he expanded, and made wide, (TA,) with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs: (S, TA : ) and, said of a man, he spread, &c., and made plain, even, or smooth. (TA in art. dhaha )- Also, said of a man, (K,,) aor. yad’hoo, inf. n. dahwu(TA,) i.q. Jamie as also daja; on the authority of 1Abr. (TA.) (You say, dhahaha He compressed her; like as you say, dhajaha.) _ Also He threw, or cast, and impelled, propelled, oi removed from its place, a stone, with his hand (TA.) One says also, to him who is playing with walnuts, abidil maddha va adhhuhu, meaning (Make thou the distance far, and) throw it. (S,TA.: See also midh’hath, in two places. And of a torrent one says, dhaha bilbat’hai It cast along (the soft earth and pebbles in its course; or drove then along). (TA.) And of rain, one says, dhaha Al hissa an waj’hil Ardhi (S,Msb) It drove the pebbles from the surface of the earth; (Msb; ) or removed them. (TA.) (See also dhaha, in the next art.) And aldhahwu bilhijarathi also signifies The vying, one with another, in throwing stones, and striving to surpass (in doing so); as also al Midahath (inf. n- of dahee). (TA marra yad’hoo inf.n. dahow said of a horse, He went along throwing out his fore legs without raising his hoofs much from the ground. (S,TA.) = dhahal bathan The belly was, or became, large, and hanging down; (Kr, K; ) and Indhahee (the belly) was, or became, wide, or distended: (MF : ) or both signify it (the belly) became swollen, or inflated, or big,. and hung down, by reason of fatness or disease; as also Dhau and Indah (TA in art dooh.) 3. Dhahee inf.n. Mudahath: see 1. 5. Thud'hee He spread out, or extended, himself; syn. Thabassuth. (K: in art. Daha.) You say, nama fulan fathadhahha Such a one slept, and (extended himself so that he) lay upon a vide space of ground (TA in that art.) - And thadhahhathil ibilu fil ardhi The camels made hollows in the ground where they lay down, it being soft; leaving therein cavities like those of bellies: thus they do only when they are fat. (El-'Itreefee, TA in art. Daha. ) 7. see 1, last sentence. 9. id'havi (of the measure if’alath for if’alle like Ar’awa) It (a thing, TA) was, or became, spread, spread out or forth, expanded, or extended. (K.)

    Dhahin (act. part n. of 1). Allahumma dhahil Mad’huwwath in a prayer of ‘Alee, means O God, the Spreader and Expander of the (seven) earths: (TA : ) al Mdhuwwath (properly) signifies the things that are spread, &c.; as also Al Mudh’hiyyath. (TA in art. dhaha ) _ Al’Matharuddahee The rain that removes (or drives) the pebbles from the surface of the earth. (TA.)

    Ud'hiyy (S.K) (Originally od'huwa of the measure Uf’ool from dhahaithu but said in the S to be of that measure from dhahouthu the dial. var. dhahaithu not being there mentioned,) and and id’hiyy and Ud’hiyyath and ud’huwwath (K) The place of the layingof eggs, (S, K,) and of the hatching thereof, (S,) , of the ostrich, (S. K. ) in the sand; (K; ) because that bird expands it, and makes it wide, with its foot, or leg; for the ostrich has no (nest such as is termed) Ush (S: ) pl. Adahin (TA in the present art.) and Adahee (i. e., if not a mistranscription, Adahiyyu agreeably with the sing.): (TA in art. dhaha and mudhhiyya (likewise) signifies the place of the eggs of the ostrich. (S.) (Hence,) binthu Adh’hiyyathun A female ostrich. (TA.)_(Hence also,) Al Udkhiyyu and Al Id’hiyyu A certain Mansion of the Moon, (K, TA,) (namely, the Twenty-first Mansion,) between the Na’aai’m sa’dha zabih (more commonly) called Al Baldath likened to the Adhahhee of the ostrich. (TA.)

    Ud’huwwath and udh’hiyyath: see the next preceding paragraph, in three places: - and for the latter, see also mid’hath, below.

    Mad’han see ud’hiyy

    Mid’hath A wooden thing with which a child is driven along (yud’ha), and which, passing over the ground, sweeps away everything against which it comes (K, TA.) - Accord. to Sh, A certain thing with which the people of Mekkeh play: he says, I heard El-Asadee describe it thus: Almadahiyy and Almasadiyy signify stones like the (small round cake of bread called) qursath, according to the size which a hole is dug, and widened a little: then they throw those stones (yad’hoona biha) to that hole and if the stone fall therein, the person wins; but if not, he is overcome: you say of him yad’hoo and yasdoo when he throws the stones (Iza dhahaha) over the ground to the hole: and the hole is called ud'hiyyath. (TA.) (Accord. to Freytag, the authority of the Deewan El-Hudhaleeyeen, A round thing made of lead, by the throwing of which persons contend together.)

    Almadhuwwath and almad’hiyyath see Dahin.[18]

    Note above that Lane also translates udhiyy(أُدْحِىٌّ) to mean the place in the sand where the ostrich lays its eggs, and not the eggs themselves.



    You say......Its proved again yet this guy thinks that if a muslim interprets anything wrongly then all of the religion is wrong.


    My reply ......You proved nothing except your knowledge of the religion you claim to follow is appalling , your religion like others is wrong if your sacred books are the means of making an informed decision on the matter


    You say ......The truth is bitter but it has to be accepted... 


    My reply .....It sure is which is why you’re terrified to face it 




  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    You say .....And in Islam no one should go to hell because of his beliefs unless he received the message of Islam

    My reply .....What do you mean “unless” are you saying if he got the message and rejected it he goes to hell?
  • DeeDee 652 Pts

    You never responded to my question regards Muhammad and how you feel about a 53 year old man marrying a six year old child and consummating the marriage when she was 9, why’s that?


    The child was still playing with dolls , you hold a peadophile in very high esteem in your religion it seems, remember the Sahih Bukhari is regarded as a sacred source 



    Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

    Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236



    Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151

  • DeeDee 652 Pts

    You never responded to my question regards Muhammad and how you feel about a 53 year old man marrying a six year old child and consummating the marriage when she was 9, why’s that?


    The child was still playing with dolls , you hold a peadophile in very high esteem in your religion it seems, remember the Sahih Bukhari is regarded as a sacred source 



    Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

    Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236



    Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151

  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee Clearly you don't know arabic since there was no spacing between wordsI am going to give you the meaning of the word daha دحى directly from the best Arabic Dictionaries which are used by scholars :1- المعاني من المواقع الإلكترونية الرائدة في هذا المجال، يتوفر على مادة غنية، و يُغطي مجالات عدة من قبيل: القانون والاقتصاد والصناعة والطب والتقنية والإعلام والرياضة والزراعة والنقل والطقس والتعليم والسياسة… إضافة إلى العديد من التعابير الشائعة والتعابير الاصطلاحية. 2- معاجم يضم الموقع اختبارات متنوعة في اللغة العربية وقواعدها، إلى جانب العديد من الألعاب التعليمية اللغوية المُعززة بالصور و الفيديوهات. يضم الموقع أيضا معجما عربيا وقاموسا عربيا أجنبيا، إضافة إلى أقسام أخرى مثل ″الحكم والأقوال″، و ″سؤال وجواب″ و ″مقالات″… .. -المعاني : دحا ( اسم ): دحا اللهُ الأرضَ : بَسَطَها ومَدَّها ووَسَّعَها على هيئة بيضة للسُّكنى والإعمار -المعجم: دحا اللهُ الأرضَ: بَسَطَها ومَدَّها ووَسَّعَها على هيئة بيضة للسُّكنى والإعمار (دحا الخبَّازُ العجينةَ- {وَالأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا}[قرآن]).1- Meanings One of the leading websites in the field, is rich in content, covering several areas such as: Law, economics, industry, medicine, technology, media, sports, agriculture, transport, weather, education and politics ... in addition to many common expressions and idioms. Dictionaries The site includes various tests in the Arabic language and rules, in addition to many educational games enhanced language pictures and videos. The site also includes an Arabic dictionary and a foreign Arab dictionary, as well as other sections such as "Governance and Sayings", "Q & A" and "Articles" ... .. -Meanings:  Daha (name): Deh Allah the land: spread it and extend it in the form of an egg for housing and reconstruction - Dictionary: Dehah Allah the Earth: Spread it and extend it and expand it in the form of an egg for habitation and reconstruction (Daha baker the dough - {and the earth after that Dahaha} [Koran]).Reply To Prophet Muhammad Marriage to Aisha The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) after he married Sawdah bint Zam’ah (may Allaah be pleased with her). She – ‘Aa’ishah – was the only virgin whom he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married. And he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine years old. Among her virtues was the fact that the Revelation did not descend when he under one cover with any of his wives other than her. She was one of the dearest of all people to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and news of her innocence was revealed from above the seven heavens. She was one of the most knowledgeable of his wives, and one of the most knowledgeable women of the ummah as a whole. The senior companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to refer to her opinion and consult her. With regard to the story of her marriage, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had grieved over the death of the Mother of the Believers Khadeejah, who had supported him and stood by his side, and he called the year in which she died The Year of Sorrow. Then he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married Sawdah, who was an older woman and was not very beautiful; rather he married her to console her after her husband had died and she stayed among mushrik people. Four years later the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and he was over fifty. Perhaps the reasons for the marriage were as follows: 1 – He saw a dream about marrying her. It is proven in al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You were shown to me twice in a dream. I saw that you were wrapped in a piece of silk, and it was said, ‘This is your wife.’ I uncovered her and saw that it was you. I said, ‘If this is from Allaah then it will come to pass.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3682). As to whether this is a prophetic vision as it appears to be, or a regular dream that may be subject to interpretation, there was a difference of opinion among the scholars, as mentioned by al-Haafiz in Fath al-Baari, 9/181. 2 – The characteristics of intelligence and smartness that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had noticed in ‘Aa’ishah even as a small child, so he wanted to marry her so that she would be more able than others to transmit reports of what he did and said. In fact, as stated above, she was a reference point for the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) with regard to their affairs and rulings. 3 – The love of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) for her father Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), and the persecution that Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him) had suffered for the sake of the call of truth, which he bore with patience. He was the strongest of people in faith and the most sincere in certain faith, after the Prophets. It may be noted that among his wives were those who were young and old, the daughter of his sworn enemy, the daughter of his closest friend. One of them occupied herself with raising orphans, another distinguished herself from others by fasting and praying qiyaam a great deal… They represented all kinds of people, through whom the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was able to set out a way for the Muslims showing how to deal properly with all kinds of people. [See al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah fi Daw’ al-Masaadir al-Asliyyah, p. 711]. With regard to the issue of her being young and your being confused about that, you should note that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) grew up in a hot country, the Arabian Peninsula. Usually in hot countries adolescence comes early and people marry early. This is how the people of Arabia were until recently. Moreover, women vary greatly in their development and their physical readiness for marriage. If you think – may Allaah guide you – that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not marry any virgin other than ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), and that all his other wives had been previously married, this will refute the notion spread by many hostile sources, that the basic motive behind the Prophet’s marriages was physical desire and enjoyment of women, because if that was his intention he would have chosen only those who were virgins and beautiful etc.    Such slanders against the Prophet of Mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by kaafirs and others of their ilk, are indicative of their inability to find fault with the law and religion that he brought from Allaah, so they try to find ways to criticize Islam with regard to issues that are not related to sharee’ah. (Note : before trying to convince me the real meaning of an arabic word go learn to read or type arabic since nothing of the text in Arabic that you have typed is understandable.);) @Dee
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee
    No non-muslim goes to hell because he is a non-muslim unless he knew the direct message of islam. 
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    You say .....No non-muslim goes to hell because he is a non-muslim unless he knew the direct message of islam

    My reply ......You keep avoiding the question like all my others , let’s try again , what do you mean by “unless”?
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    You say ......


    Clearly you don't know arabic since there was no spacing between wordsI am going to give you the meaning of the word daha دحىdirectly from the best Arabic Dictionaries which are used by scholars :


    My reply .....More nonsense the text is perfectly logical and the meaning of the word daha has been given ......by the best scholars through me ,these childish games you play and all because you cannot accept “spread out Flat like a carpet “.


    You also for the 5th time failed to acknowledge that the Islamic book I gave you a link to from Muhammad’s time has a depiction of what Muslims accepted as fact as in a Flat Earth 


    You say .....  Such slanders against the Prophet of Mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by kaafirs and others of their ilk, are indicative of their inability to find fault with the law and religion that he brought from Allaah, so they try to find ways to criticize Islam with regard to issues that are not related to sharee’ah.


    My reply .....The truth is not slander Muhammad was a peadophile a low dog who consummated a “marriage “ with a doll playing child.


    The law and religion are primitive junk as I’ve demonstrated clearly.


     You say .....(Note : before trying to convince me the real meaning of an arabic word go learn to read or type arabic since nothing of the text in Arabic that you have typed is understandable.);)


    My reply .....Note :Your inability to comprehend basic Arabic is not my fault as your lengthy response clearly demonstrates you haven’t a clue regarding the language or meaning of basic terms , get help maybe?)



    Regarding Muhammad’s lust for a child still playing with dolls 


    There is no purpose of an Islamic marriage (nikah) f there will be no sex between the couple. If 54 year old Muhammad did not want to have sex with 9 year old Aisha but wanted to keep her in his house, he could easily have adopted her as his grand-daughter instead. He already had an adopted son.

    And even if we were to accept the marriage as a result of Allah's foreknowledge, it still does not explain why he could not foretell that millions of young girls today would face pedophillic  marriages explicitly using Muhammad and Aisha's relationship as justification.

  • AliAli 15 Pts
    edited June 6
     @Dee
    Are You questioning my arabic skills? Im going to type this in Arabic and make sure to translate it

    رجاء اتبع الخطوات التالية :
    -اخرج من منزلك
    -انظر حولك
    -هل يمكنك تحديد شكل الارض؟
    -سوف ترى ان الارض مسطحة
    -عد الى منزلك
    -افتح تطبيق "Google Earth"
    -اذهب وشاهد Nasa's Live Space Recording
    -سوف ترى ان الارض مدورة
    -ان الانسان يرى الارض مسطحة من منظوره
    -هذا معنى العبارة
    -واذا لم تقتنع فهذه مشكلتك

    -هذا ما يقصد بعبارة ( والى الارض كيف سطحت) سورة الغاشية
    و لا يمكن لمحمد ان يتبنى عائشة لانه حرام
    ويمكنك منع الزواج المبكر لانه هناك قانون
    هل اقتنعت ام بعد؟؟


  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee

    and yes "unless" is a word used in the English language google its meaning 
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    edited June 6
    @Ali

    You say ......Are You questioning my arabic skills? Im going to type this in Arabic and make sure to translate it

    My reply .....Why was that in doubt? Your lack of skills is what I am addressing actually 


    Regards your poorly composed text in Arabic you have agreed that Muslims thought the Earth Flat from their perspective exactly as I said from the start why are you even answering? 

    Also as predicted for the 6th time you have ignored the link ( again ) to the Flat earth Islamic book why’s that?

    Regards the peadophile Muhammad adopting A’isha it was not forbidden it’s just he wanted sex with a child instead 
  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    Ahhh right, so non Muslims do go to hell as your “unless “ suggests , why are you to terrified to admit this?

    Your knowledge of your own religion and Arabic is appalling 
  • AliAli 15 Pts
    @Dee

    Every non-muslim goes to hell because of his beliefs
    EXCEPT IF HE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT ISLAM. 

    And I saw the book from the start and I said before that it doesn't matter if someone misunderstood the shape of the earth in Quran.
    And you were the one to fail in understanding for the 6th time, thus i have proven that you have an understanding issue 
    Its not my problem if you don't simple english words like "unless". 

    And I could speak Arabic better than many other Arabs, still then comes man that doesn't know 1 Arabic Letter and questions my favorite Language.

    And before you start copy pasting texts at least read and understand them(I'm not sure whether you can do it or fail in that too) 

    And really dude?! You are trying to falsify a religion just because you can't understand a word, while you as an Atheist believe that Everything came from nothing, and everything was designed by itself. 
    Atheism contains many contradictions and gaps especially that Evolution theory. 


  • DeeDee 652 Pts
    @Ali

    You say ....


    Every non-muslim goes to hell because of his beliefs

    EXCEPT IF HE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT ISLAM. 


    My reply ....That makes no sense 


    You say .....


    And I saw the book from the start and I said before that it doesn't matter if someone misunderstood the shape of the earth in Quran.


    My reply ....You’re the one who doesn’t understand “ spread out like a carpet “ get it?


    The ninth time now you’ve ignored my link to the book I sent why’s that?



    You say ....And you were the one to fail in understanding for the 6th time, thus i have proven that you have an understanding issue 


    My reply .....Yes I fail to understand you as your English and Arabic is dreadful I’m sure it’s a complaint you’re well used to hearing 



    You say .....Its not my problem if you don't simple english words like "unless". 


    My reply....... I do , the problem is the way you dishonestly word things but hey you’re a Muslim you’s are allowed lie to protect Islam 


    You say ......And I could speak Arabic better than many other Arabs, still then comes man that doesn't know 1 Arabic Letter and questions my favorite Language.


    My reply.....I doubt that. Oddly enough I typed several lines in Arabic your failure to comprehend means you need to go back to school 


    You say .....And before you start copy pasting texts at least read and understand them(I'm not sure whether you can do it or fail in that too) 


    My reply .....Says the idiot who .....copies and pastes 


    You say ......And really dude?! You are trying to falsify a religion just because you can't understand a word


    My reply ......Oh stop it you fool you do not even know what a carpet spread flat means


    You  say ..... while you as an Atheist believe that Everything came from nothing, 


    My reply ......Where did I say that?


    You say .....and everything was designed by itself. 


    My reply .....Where did I say that 



    You say ......Atheism contains many contradictions and gaps especially that Evolution theory. 


    My reply .....Atheism is the position one question alone and no others , Evolution  has nothing to do with Atheism you fool 


  • AliAli 15 Pts


    The Quran says that when the night and the day overlap, they make a ball (sphere):

    [Quran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic يُكَوِّرُ] the night over the day and overlaps[Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?

    The Arabic word "Kura" means ball; its verb "Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ" means to make into a ball. The Quran says that the overlapping of the night and the day makes a ball (sphere).

    Even if this does not relate:
    You said "carpet spread flat" where was the word flat mentioned (Carpets could bend) 

    If going to hell makes no sense to you  then when you go there remember to ask them why am I here.

    You call me an idiot that copies and pastes. At least I read what I copy.

    And I have a question :

    How did the universe start? 

  • @Ali
    How did the universe start? 
    This question has no definitive answer yet, anyone pretending otherwise is delusional... But there's a rising consensus in the scientific community that quantum field fluctuations are the most probable cause for the expansion of the universe...

    There is no more need for any god to explain how the universe came into existence... 
    Dee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
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