Discrimination against Atheism in your country - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com. The only online debate website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the leading online debate website. Debate popular topics, debate news, or debate anything! Debate online for free! DebateIsland is utilizing Artifical Intelligence to transform online debating.


The best online Debate website - DebateIsland.com! The only Online Debate Website with Casual, Persuade Me, Formalish, and Formal Online Debate formats. We’re the Leading Online Debate website. Debate popular topics, Debate news, or Debate anything! Debate online for free!

Discrimination against Atheism in your country
in Global

By ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1043 Pts
Do you think discrimination against Atheism in your country or any other country for that matter is a prevalent issue? What I am about to say is from my own experience as well some other parts being somewhat factual/statistical. I'm going to start with the UK and Europe in general.

And as with the Uk and Europe generally speaking Atheists and Religious people are fine with each other at least in the modern-day. However, discrimination and persecution against Atheists were rampant in Medieval/Post Medieval Europe and some instances in the Victorian era.

Historical examples

This list is not meant to be comprehensive, or it'd rival the Bible in length. Poland, 1689 — Kazimierz ŁyszczyńskiWikipedias Wsvg is tortured and then burned at the stake for atheism. A man who owed him money brought him before court for writing "and therefore, there is no God" in the margin of a book. Prosecutors later discovered that he wrote a 265-page treatise called De non existentia Dei, where he argued that God is a construct of the human mind, and it was the primary cause of sentencing him to death. He tried to claim this had only been first presenting atheist arguments to refute them later, but this wasn't believed. The manuscript was destroyed; only five quotations from the work survived in court documents.[16] Scotland, 1698 — Thomas AikenheadWikipedias Wsvg is executed for reading a book about atheism at Edinburgh University.England, 1880 — Charles BradlaughWikipedias Wsvg is elected to Parliament, but as an atheist is barred from taking his seat as he wishes to affirm rather than swear to God, as is required. Eventually he wins the argument, getting a law passed that allows MPs to affirm.
Nonetheless, in the modern-day, there isn't much an issue at least what I have witnessed from my own experience as well as some stuff I've researched regarding Atheists in the UK and Europe. While discrimination still exists in some parts it is in no way as prevalent as other countries/continents. By contrast in the USA, the hostility and discrimination against Atheism still seem rampant with the same old mindsets of those people that most Europeans would now learn in a history class. While perhaps not as brutal as in the old days and also as in the Middle Eastern and Asian countries the same old "dark aged" hostile attitudes toward Atheists still prevails within the United States.

This is not a slur on the USA by the way. While most of my discussions about religion and Atheism have been with people from the USA this is also factual and statistical stuff.
Some of my discussions with people that were religious in the USA were very pleasant discussions even though this is a rarity to find so it would seem. It also seems that the slightest criticism or controversy of anything religious is extremely offensive to the many self-proclaimed religious people of the USA. In fact, simply just stating you're an Atheist is somehow a violation of their whole personal being in some people's minds in the USA; you don't even have to say anything about religion to have that effect!  Of course, there are much worse countries but one would have thought that the USA would have evolved past this point by now.

The following should highlight just how prevalent Atheism Discrimination is.

United States

Although atheists are banned from holding office in six US states, those provisions are not enforceable.[22] A Myspace atheist group with 35000 members was deleted for causing offense — just by existing.[23] No admitted or confirmed atheist has ever been President of the United States, although some right-wing skeptics have claimed that Obama is an atheist.[24] Some other presidents have been rather secular throughout their lives or seem to have "lost their faith" at some point and a handful even omitted the (optional) phrase "so help me God" from the oath of office. While all this is fine basis for speculation, it is virtually impossible to ever conclusively prove anything about the privately held religious beliefs[note 3] of all Presidents, much less the dead ones. Considering atheophobia, however, a President who is indeed atheist would do well[note 4] to "stay in the closet" about it. In Congress, there have only been two Representatives who have proclaimed themselves as atheists, Democrat Pete Stark and Democrat Barney Frank.[25] Stark kept his seat for 40 consecutive years. However, a 2011 op-ed in The New York Times claimed that atheists had been overtaken in unpopularity by the Tea Party, oddly enough.[26] According to a 2014 survey by the Pew Research Center, the public has about equivalent negative feelings towards atheists and Muslims.[27] EuropeIn the United Kingdom, religion isn't as much of an issue. The Prime Minister immediately after World War Two, Clement Attlee, was an agnostic. Jim Callaghan, Prime Minister before Thatcher, was an atheist. Until they lost their jobs in the 2015 election the current Deputy Prime Minister (Nick Clegg[28]) and Leader of the Opposition (Ed Miliband[29]) were atheists,[note 5] leaving two of the three main political parties led by atheists. In the rest of Western and Central Europe atheism is also far more acceptable. An outright majority of people living in the Czech Republic are believed to be atheists based on a Eurobarometer poll. The same poll puts figures in the 20s-40s in other countries such as France, Netherlands, and Germany. There are vocal religious groups however; although many stereotype France as almost militantly secular, recent protests against the passage of a gay marriage law demonstrate that Catholicism and other conservative brands of Christianity still hold sway with many people. Eastern Europe is much more religious, even in areas formerly part of the Soviet bloc. Atheism is high in some countries, including Estonia and the Czech Republic, but low in others, such as Poland.

Expressions of atheophobia

Atheophobia expresses itself in the form of generalised attacks on all atheists, as if they were of one mind and one will (in fact, some conservative atheophobes will often refer to atheists as “the atheist”, as if to punctuate the point). Claims about atheists made by atheophobes include such diverse elements as: moral inferiority of atheists/atheism[1][2][3] evilness of atheists[4] atheists have rejected God and embrace sin (or rejected God to embrace sin)[5][note 1] atheists wish to destroy religion and abolish religious holidays[6][7][8][9] atheists have meaningless or decadent lives[10] atheists should not be allowed to express their lack of belief[11] atheists are a corrupting influence[12] atheists are unsuited to responsibility[13]

While freedom of religion and speech is protected in the United States, the report said, a social and political climate prevails “in which atheists and the non-religious are made to feel like lesser Americans, or non-Americans.”

In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars an atheist from testifying as a witness at a trial, the report said. Atheists around world suffer persecution, discrimination: reportRobert Evans
And as also seen on here you've got self-proclaimed defenders of religion that continue to try and make Atheists feel like lesser human beings and then claim they're fair, equal and neutral conversationalists? I mean the irony?; it's almost as if you can smell it.

Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama recently raised eyebrows during his confirmation hearing for attorney general when he expressed doubts that secular people respected the truth as much as did those with religious convictions. Even as he insisted that there should be no religious tests for holding public office, Sessions was queasy about the potential dangers of the secular worldview.

This was hardly uncharted territory for Sessions. During a speech in 2015, for example, he had singled out the “relativistic, secular mindset” of Justice Sonia Sotomayor as “directly contrary to the founding of our republic.” The misgivings that Sessions harbors about secularists and nonbelievers – those who “don’t believe in a higher being” – is no mere eccentricity of a senator from the Bible Belt. As a scholar who has worked for some years now on the history of atheism and secularism in the United States, I find his suspicions deeply familiar. In my book, “Village Atheists: How America’s Unbelievers Made Their Way in a Godly Nation,” I have examined attitudes toward atheists. Distrust of the irreligious runs deep in American history.
https://theconversation.com/how-distrust-of-unbelievers-runs-deep-in-american-history-71776
Americans feel less warmly toward atheists than they do toward members of most major religious groups. A 2019 Pew Research Center survey asked Americans to rate groups on a “feeling thermometer” from 0 (as cold and negative as possible) to 100 (the warmest, most positive possible rating). U.S. adults gave atheists an average rating of 49, identical to the rating they gave Muslims (49) and colder than the average given to Jews (63), Catholics (60) and evangelical Christians (56). Note: This is an update of a post originally published on Nov. 5, 2015.https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/06/10-facts-about-atheists/

The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians by Steven Morris (March 1996)

The Christian Right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States, as part of their campaign to force their religion on others who ask merely to be left alone. According to this Orwellian revision, the Founding Fathers of this country were pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity. Not true! The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New Testaments.https://ffrf.org/outreach/item/16866-the-founding-fathers-were-not-christians
This is something that a lot of self-proclaimed religious people of the States have difficult accepting even though it's a hard solid fact!



Well, that concludes that and I do look forward to some amusing ad-hominems i.e arguments that are not more than about the authors of some of the reference material or even just arguments against me. But more importantly, what about the Atheism discrimination in your countries/places?












Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted 2nd Place
11%
Margin

Details +



Arguments

  • It's good that discrimination is aimed against murderers , child molesters, the immoral and hatefull.
  • It's good that discrimination is aimed against murderers , child molesters, the immoral and hatefull.
    A prime example of Atheist Discrimination. Or to be me more frank, the epitome of Bullsh*t. FYI, @JesusisGod777888 is a troll and so don't take him that seriously but I'm guessing most of you have figured that out already. In fact, this guy can be somewhat amusing, much like a puppet on a string.
    Happy_KillbotsmoothiePlaffelvohfenAlofRI










  • So is that all you got then? Not another troll post? I was really looking forward to pulling some of your strings my little puppet. ;)  Just gonna cower off now then? Well, probably for the best I guess.
    Happy_Killbot









  • @JesusisGod777888

    It's good that discrimination is aimed against murderers , child molesters, the immoral and hatefull.

    Imagine that coming from a hateful, immoral, pathological liar like yourself, not to mention the inability to English or make 3D renderings.
    ZeusAres42PlaffelvohfenAlofRIDee
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • It's non-existent in the province of Quebec where I reside and has been for most of my life really... In the 60's we collectively got the clergy out of Education, Healthcare, and all Government business, in a profound and intense secularization period referred to as the Quiet Revolution... Prior to that time, Catholicism was a de facto state religion... 

    Since then, there has been a drastic and continuous decline in service attendance and self-identification as religious, 88% to 20% from 1957 to 2000, in the 18-35 range, it's now 5%... The 60's and 70's are not that far back, and I'm old enough to have seen that decline myself... Churches, nunneries, monasteries, closing everywhere... The number of priests that left the Church was staggering during that time too... No politician publicly displays their faith, not in any ostentatious manner anyway or they're laughed at in talk-shows, radio-shows, etc...

    We have the particularity of being highly influenced by our french roots and our definition of a secular society/government has nothing to do with the american vision of what secularism should be... We voted last year to ban public officials in positions of coercive power (including teachers) from wearing or displaying any religious symbols, this would be heretical in the US... It'll be challenged in federal court of course but we did and would do so again... So no, atheism discrimination doesn't exist here, it would be perfect if winter wasn't so damn cold up here!! ;) 
    ZeusAres42AlofRIDee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @Plaffelvohfen

    Canada does seem like an appealing country to live in.
    AlofRI









  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    @JesusisGod777888


    ***** It's good that discrimination is aimed against murderers , child molesters, the immoral and hatefull.

    If you hate your fellow Christians that much maybe you should become atheist ......BTW your spelling is atrocious were you home schooled? 
    ZeusAres42AlofRIPlaffelvohfensmoothie
  • @Dee

    I understand that you were faced with a lot hostility when you came out as atheist right?









  • @ZeusAres42

    It is, but I must mention that this is particular to the province of Quebec not the rest of Canada, certainly not in central provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan where Protestantism is predominant and can be considered Canada's Bible Belt... But even there, there is no atheism discrimination, just more religious people living there. 
    AlofRIZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    @ZeusAres42 ;

    That’s  spot on Z 
  • AlofRIAlofRI 392 Pts
    I've worked in every Province except Yukon and Saskatchewan (never can get that spelling right! ;-). There are a fraction of the number of "nuts" per/1000 as here in the states …. at least since the 1970's. From the 80's on the U.S. has slowly been pressured by "the religious right" and has slowly become "nuttier". Not what our, not radically religious founding fathers anticipated. 

    I just wish you cultists would believe what YOU want …. by yourselves. The rest of us would rather do what needs to be done …. save the world. Going by "the book" hasn't helped for 20 centuries. I'm designated an "atheist" only because religious people have to "group" people. I don't consider myself as part of a group …. either evil or not. I wouldn't be part of an "evil group", but I AM in the eyes of many, but, ONLY in those eyes, the ones "blinded by the light". Stay in your churches, your "cultural sites", your homes … with your belief. Live with the rest of the world when you're IN the rest of the world. You'd find much less "evil" in the rest of the world if you did! Many of you BRING the evil that you THINK exists with you. The hate, carried by the radically religious, is something I don't live with ……. @JesusisGod777888 o:)
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    edited January 10
    @AlofRI

    *****  I'm designated an "atheist" only because religious people have to "group" people

    You’re spot on , if you’re not one of them they see you as broken in some way yet the atheist breaks bread with most others in my experience, I gotta say American “Christians “ to me are a pretty scary lot and the power they have is frightening as it effects everyone 
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • I have lived for extended periods of time in many different countries, and not in a single one did I notice anything even remotely resembling discrimination against atheism, or discrimination against any religion. It does not seem to be a big deal in the modern world, with the exemption of a few Islamic countries that still hang on to the ancient theocratic ways.

    People tend to confuse discrimination with individual preferences. Someone calling you names over being an atheist or a follower of any religion is not discrimination, it is an expression of individual opinion. Discrimination refers to something far more systematic and invasive, in the sense in which this word is usually used.
  • MayCaesar said:
    I have lived for extended periods of time in many different countries, and not in a single one did I notice anything even remotely resembling discrimination against atheism, or discrimination against any religion. It does not seem to be a big deal in the modern world, with the exemption of a few Islamic countries that still hang on to the ancient theocratic ways.

    People tend to confuse discrimination with individual preferences. Someone calling you names over being an atheist or a follower of any religion is not discrimination, it is an expression of individual opinion. Discrimination refers to something far more systematic and invasive, in the sense in which this word is usually used.

    I agree with you here but my post was more about discrimination and also backed up statistical factual resources. My post wasn't about just calling someone a silly name. @MayCaesar









  • @ZeusAres42

    Sure, but I do not really agree with most of those cases (or maybe all of them) being instances of discrimination. It is not discrimination against atheists to be undesirable for a presidential candidate to proclaim that they are an atheist; it is just a voter preference. You would not call being undesirable for a presidential candidate to proclaim that they watch hardcore adult videos every night a consequence of discrimination against adult video watchers, would you?

    Discrimination to me means something more outlined. For example, if I say that I am an atheist, and the result of it is me being ostracized by my peers, getting lower grades at university, lower salary at work, etc. - that would be discrimination. But if someone just says, "Oh well, I am not voting for you, and I am not dating you either" - it is just an individual preference, and even if it is shared by the vast majority of the population, it is still just a collection of individual preferences.
  • MayCaesar said:
    @ZeusAres42

    Sure, but I do not really agree with most of those cases (or maybe all of them) being instances of discrimination. It is not discrimination against atheists to be undesirable for a presidential candidate to proclaim that they are an atheist; it is just a voter preference. You would not call being undesirable for a presidential candidate to proclaim that they watch hardcore adult videos every night a consequence of discrimination against adult video watchers, would you?

    Discrimination to me means something more outlined. For example, if I say that I am an atheist, and the result of it is me being ostracized by my peers, getting lower grades at university, lower salary at work, etc. - that would be discrimination. But if someone just says, "Oh well, I am not voting for you, and I am not dating you either" - it is just an individual preference, and even if it is shared by the vast majority of the population, it is still just a collection of individual preferences.

    I think the biggest stumbling block for you here is that you're merely assuming a position rather than reading the entire post and then making an argument based on what you read rather than what you're assuming. This post doesn't simply state at all that "Atheism discrimination is to do with people not voting for them."









  • @ZeusAres42

    I did read the post, but, like I said, I did not see any evidence of systematic discrimination. Individual cases of discrimination are mentioned, but the statistics seems much less definitive.

    I am not saying that there is no significant discrimination against atheists necessarily, since I have never researched the subject deeply myself, and my personal experiences are not comprehensive. I am just saying that it does not seem that the things you listed in the opening post constitute a sufficient evidence to warrant the made claim - to the extent to which I followed it.
  • MayCaesar said:
    @ZeusAres42

    I did read the post, but, like I said, I did not see any evidence of systematic discrimination. Individual cases of discrimination are mentioned, but the statistics seems much less definitive.

    I am not saying that there is no significant discrimination against atheists necessarily, since I have never researched the subject deeply myself, and my personal experiences are not comprehensive. I am just saying that it does not seem that the things you listed in the opening post constitute a sufficient evidence to warrant the made claim - to the extent to which I followed it.
    Really? Political suicide for coming out as Atheist is not discrimination to you? Not to mention the reference points in the post, all highlighted and backed-up by research links? I mean if that doesn't demonstrate it then I do not know what does.
    Plaffelvohfen









  • DeeDee 1332 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    I’m afraid @MayCaesar will deny stats and links supporting your position as somehow he always gets emotionally involved and sees such as a an attack on the U S , recently when provided with stats demonstrating healthcare and education costs in the U S and how astronomical they were he claimed one could easily afford such on minimun wage in the U S if they “ made wise choices “ 

    Denialism is the game played each time anyone demonstrates an injustice in the U S , remember discrimination against Atheists is widespread in the U S this from a country where a third of the population agrees that not serving a customer based on their sexuality is a correct thing to do should come as no surprise


    Wiki

    Discrimination against atheists in the United States occurs in legal, personal, social, and professional contexts. Many American atheists compare their situation to the discrimination faced by ethnic minorities, LGBT communities, and women.”Americans still feel it's acceptable to discriminate against atheists in ways considered beyond the pale for other groups," asserted Fred Edwords of the American Humanist Association.The degree of discrimination, persecution, and social stigma atheists face in the United States, compared to other persecuted groups in the United States has been the subject of study and a matter of debate.

    In the United States, seven state constitutions include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early twentieth century.The U.S. Constitution permits an affirmation in place of an oath to allow atheists to give testimony in court or to hold public office However, a United States Supreme Court case reaffirmed that the United States Constitution prohibits States and the Federal Government from requiring any kind of religious test for public office, in the specific case, as a notary public.This decision is generally understood to also apply to witness oaths.

    ZeusAres42
  • IzniIzni 63 Pts
    In my country no one cares.
  • TKDBTKDB 412 Pts
    @ZeusAres42

    In response to your Political Suicide comment.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Buttigieg

    "Before running for office, Buttigieg worked on the political campaigns of Democrats Jill Long ThompsonJoe Donnelly, and John Kerry. Buttigieg served as the 32nd mayor of South Bend, Indiana from January 2012 to January 2020. Once elected mayor of South Bend, Indiana, he became the youngest mayor of a city with a population of over 100,000. In 2015, Buttigieg publicly came out as gay and was reelected with over 80% of the vote."

    "Really? Political suicide for coming out as Atheist is not discrimination to you? Not to mention the reference points in the post, all highlighted and backed-up by research links? I mean if that doesn't demonstrate it then I do not know what does."

    Pete Buttigieg is a Politician, who is openly gay, and I haven't heard or seen, much, if any discrimination, being expressed in his direction, from few, if any anti gay individuals to begin with.

    I disagree with your political suicide commentary.

    ZeusAres42
  • RickeyDRickeyD 325 Pts
    edited January 13
    @ZeusAres42 ; Atheism, like LGBTQ, is a mental illness and should not be discriminated against but treated with caution, pity, prayer and those suffering from this deadly form of psychosis should be urged to seek psychological and spiritual intervention.


     
    ZeusAres42smoothie
  • Prime example of discrimination against atheism, @RickeyD himself
    why
  • ZeusAres42 said:

    Really? Political suicide for coming out as Atheist is not discrimination to you? Not to mention the reference points in the post, all highlighted and backed-up by research links? I mean if that doesn't demonstrate it then I do not know what does. 
    Having a much lower chance of being elected a president is hardly "political suicide".

    Like I said, the points you made in the post do not paint a picture of discrimination against atheists in my eyes. Maybe we have different standards of what "discrimination" is, but I certainly have not see myself or other atheists as being discriminated against anywhere I have lived, and I have lived in some pretty orthodox religious societies. Things obviously are quite different in hardcore places like Saudi Arabia, but those places have far more serious problems than just the dangers of disavowing the god.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
2019 DebateIsland.com, All rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Awesome Debates
BestDealWins.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch