In the Old West when people carried side arms strapped to their legs, there were few mass killings! - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
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In the Old West when people carried side arms strapped to their legs, there were few mass killings!
in Politics

For all you folks who have bought into this Left wing anti gun hysteria, please answer this one question. Why is it during the times of the Old West when many people buckled hand guns around their waste, and when there were very few gun regulations, that there were no mass shootings of complete strangers and children?

If guns were the problem, we would have had these same types of mass shootings throughout our history. Guess what? There were very very few, if any, mass shootings of children and people with no connection to the killer.

How is that possible if the gun is the culprit? OBVIOUSLY, the gun is NOT the problem!

So that leads to the next obvious question. What is the problem? What has changed in our culture to create monsters who randomly kill strangers?

If we take all the semi automatic hunting rifles from the 99.9999999999999% of people who are law abiding citizens, what do you think that would accomplish when some hate filled nut job chooses another weapon to mass kill, such as a truck? We are seeing a dangerous increase in mass stabbings in Europe where they have taken the guns.

Maybe the rational adults in the room should start addressing a culture that now produces these killers. We have always had mentally unstable people throughout history, but seldom did they act out in such ways.

I wonder where these nut jobs get ideas of mass killing people they don't even know?

Could it possibly be greedy Hollywood producers creating very violent movies at the expense of innocent lives? These rich Hollywood Producers, creating sick twisted violent movies, did not exist in our past. Hmmmmm...

Could it be a culture of No Restriction abortion that is cheapening the value of a life? The message of legalized convenience abortions speaks volumes to an unstable mind. It says that taking innocent life for any reason is now legal in America, so why stop with the unborn?

Could it be that after the Lie of Separation of Church and State, the moral values once holding our nation together is now being censored? Our families are falling apart!

People on the Left are completely oblivious to the root causes of these mass killings, and simply use these tragedies to further their anti gun crusades.

Vote for the rational honest people in our nation, and hopefully this sick selfish culture will someday turn around. I won't hold my breath because we are living the slippery slope of what happens to a nation when it chooses to censor any mention of God on our public lands. Trump is trying to reinstate our religious freedom of expression. My hope is that it's not too late.

Happy_KillbotAlofRIsmoothie



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  • I am pro full gun rights as stated in the Constitution - but there are many reasons for the mass killings having been uncommon on the wild west.

    One of the main reasons for it is the lack of urbanisation. Where do mass killings occur nowadays? Almost always they take place in busy cities or college campuses, where the population density is high. People frustrated with their lives and wanting to make a statement choose the most crowded area and do their thing.
    But the old west consisted almost exclusively of rural areas, and even large city centers were barely populated by the modern standards. In addition, the communications did not have nearly the reach they do today; a mass shooting occurring somewhere could remain unknown in other parts of the country for months. Mass shootings had a very low impact, hence they rarely occurred, and when they did occur, the information on them spread slowly, sometimes being lost completely.

    There were other problems were, such as highway robbers, almost completely gone by today. It may be hard to believe today, but just 160 years ago you had to hire armed guards if you wanted to cross the country, as otherwise you were almost certain to be robbed of everything and, perhaps, killed. This situation where you get into your vehicle and drive across the country on your own - was virtually unheard of back then. The country (any country in the world, for that matter) was a large no man's land, with danger lurking at every corner. We are very lucky to live in the world where highway robbers are so easy to catch, making them virtually non-existent.

    You do not want to live in that America, trust me. The culture there was abysmal by modern standards; if you think we have it bad today, you would not last a week back then.
    smoothieAlofRI
  • @We_are_accountable

    I think the answer is obvious: The data wasn't recorded.

    The first mass shooting was in 1946 by a disturbed WWII veteran.

    Before this point in time, the concept didn't exist and thus was not recorded.
    We_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 1491 Pts
    You want the right to own guns then suck it up it comes with a price , if one feels the need to own a gun to feel safe in their own country I wouldn’t want to live there 
    AlofRI
  • DeeDee 1491 Pts
    You want the right to own guns then suck it up it comes with a price , if one feels the need to own a gun to feel safe in their own country I wouldn’t want to live there 
    We_are_accountable
  • DeeDee 1491 Pts
    You want the right to own guns then suck it up it comes with a price , if one feels the need to own a gun to feel safe in their own country I wouldn’t want to live there 
  • DeeDee 1491 Pts
    You want the right to own guns then suck it up it comes with a price , if one feels the need to own a gun to feel safe in their own country I wouldn’t want to live there 
  • Funny how we recorded so many other events from the past. I would think that the mass killing of children, for no reason, would have been reorced.@Happy_Killbot
  • It sounds like you lack the understanding that we have evil people who do evil things, no matter how many gun laws they make. I have the common sense to know that we will always have evil people, and want our Constitutional freedoms to protect our families in or homes from evil or mental illness. You might take notice that the police show up after the killings are done.

    Maybe you are missing all these mass stabbings happening in Europe. I wonder if those people feel safe in their own country? I bet they would feel safer if they had a gun to protect their family when some lunatic with a knife shows up at their door.@Dee
  • @We_are_accountable I'll let you take a wild guess how I feel about guns.

    You are doing this debate all wrong, literally presenting the weakest argument that isn't a straw man from those advocating for gun control. Your argument is a mockery of the actual reasons why the citizens of a nation should be armed.

    Your argument is just absolutely bad, no offence, but I think that if you want to be talking about it with strangers on the internet, you should at least know what you are talking about, and since you have this magical technology at your disposal known as search engines, you have no excuse for posting wrong or misrepresented data except ignorance.

    Whenever someone posts something wrong, it aids the other side because it discredits your own position.

    Ex: Suppose there is a classic debate about the existence of god, and the opposition says something like "We don't believe in Santa or the Easter bunny without evidence, why should we believe in god?" and the support retorts: "The Easter bunny and Santa do exist, because we have holidays that feature them" That is a very weak argument and that is basically what you have done here.

    If you have a claim, you need to provide evidence to support it.

    Let me give you some pointers. The arguments for gun advocacy should focus around these points:
    • Disarming the public demonstrates a lack of trust in the people on the behalf of the government, on which it should draw power
    • The government should serve the people and the people should have the right to overthrow a corrupt government by force if necessary
    • The individual should have the right to defend his personal assets without the need for support from the authorities
    • Law abiding citizens should not be a concern for social upheaval so long as their other rights are not infringed upon
    • It is impossible to predict with 100% certainty who will be a danger to themselves and others, however this is not a reason to ban guns because guns are accessible to dangerous people illegally
    • It is ultimately safer and more efficient and cost effective to arm the citizens for their own personal defense than to rely on institutions for the defense of a nations 
    These and their derivatives are all strong arguments for gun rights. I would typically try to avoid the following for reasons stated in parenthesis.
    • The country had lower rates of gun violence in the past when guns were more common (The gun numbers per person have fluctuated but mathematically there is no correlation and the older data is not reliable)
    • Only mentally ill people are responsible for gun crime (This is completely false. Many of the perpetrators had no record of mental illness and some were even living stable lives)
    • American culture is mostly to blame for increases in gun violence, therefore it is not the weapons fault and we would be better off banning violent TV (It is true that hollywood glamorizes guns and influences gun culture, but this argument proposes censorship as a means of fixing gun violence and no rational person would believe that it would work. It is also exactly the kind of policy that gun owning citizens should be fighting against )
    • No restriction abortion/separation of church and state is the cause of increased immorality (these arguments are classic non-sequitur)
    • There are tons of stabbings in nations that have gun control laws, meaning that the criminals are still a problem (This argument you have to be careful with, because presented like this is very weak. When presented as "behind every gun is a criminal" or "guns don't kill people, people kill people" which is one of the favorite arguments of gun advocates, it is lightly stronger but still weak as a convincing argument, because it misses the point entirely that the gun-control  crowd is trying to make, which is that you can do less damage with a knife than you can with a gun. For this reason, I typically try to avoid this argument altogether.)
    This list is by no means comprehensive, but for the sake of brevity I would recommend if you actually want to change minds and be listened to, you tailor your arguments like this.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @We_are_accountable

    The probability of actually needing a weapon to defend oneself is so low, that if you feel unsafe based on you not carrying a weapon, then you should sit down in a quiet place for a few hours and seriously reconsider how you look at the world.

    I have walked in many places, from the safest places on Earth, to the least safe ones, and not for a single moment felt unsafe. It is all in your head, buddy. 
    Dee
  • DeeDee 1491 Pts
    edited February 9
    @We_are_accountable ;

    ***** It sounds like you lack the understanding that we have evil people who do evil things, no matter how many gun laws they make. 

    Wow! America has evil people thanks for that “insight” 


    ****I have the common sense to know that we will always have evil people, and want our Constitutional freedoms to protect our families in or homes from evil or mental illness. 

    What a way to live that you feel constantly under threat 

    ****You might take notice that the police show up after the killings are done.

    You’re painting a dreadful picture of the U S 

    *****Maybe you are missing all these mass stabbings happening in Europe.

    I guess I am and I live in Europe , so there’s “mass stabbings” taking place in Italy , Spain , Ireland , Malta , Cyprus this will come as a shock to them , where do you get your news from buddy? 

    **** I wonder if those people feel safe in their own country? 

    I certainly do unlike you and  Americans of your type 

    ****bet they would feel safer if they had a gun to protect their family when some lunatic with a knife shows up at their do

    I live in Europe and not the US , you really need a gun to protect your family? How many times have they been attacked?
  • I would reccomend you stop tearing down those who you supposedly side with on the issue, unless you are a complete phony.

    If you vote for Democrats, spare me all your arguments to protect gun rights because the Democrat Party is being taken over by the extreme Left whose ultimate goal is to take our guns, as they have done in Socialist Europe. Maybe you can put your head in some hole and believe the rhetoric from Democrats who claim they do not want to ultimately take our guns.

    I agree with all your reasons for keeping our guns, but would never judge you for not speaking to my reasons.

    You say that Hollywood censorship would never work, but have no problem when the Left has censored Religiuos expression on public grounds. I'm not saying to censor Hollywood. I'm saying SPEAK OUT AGAINST THEM! Shame them for the garbage they put out for the almighty dollar. Boycotting their violent garbage would change their movies in a heart beat.

    The Left loves to boycott pro life States, or those who want to keep LGBT hysteria out of our public schools, but when it comes to Hollywood, never a peep.

    You say this is not a break down of our culture and families? It absolutely is a combination of all the things I spoke to.

    You gave good reasons why Government should never take our guns. I gave you the reasons why guns are not the problem! It's our culture! It's time someone started addressing the core reasons for these mass killings instead of talking about the weapon of choice.

    It's not the number of people killed, but the depravity of those who do it. This argument of banning large ammo clips is secondary to whatw we should be talking about, which is a culture producing these monsters.@Happy_Killbot
  • Tell that to every person murdered in their homes. It was all in their heads!@MayCaesar
  • @We_are_accountable

    You are twisting my argument. I am saying that feeling unsafe is all in your head. Does not mean you cannot become a statistical anomaly, but you would be irrational to feel unsafe based on that (extremely unlikely) possibility.
  • smoothiesmoothie 345 Pts
    edited February 9
    @We_are_accountable The media will always report on mass shootings. Many shooters want attention no matter what type it is, and since the news always reports on them they now have a way for people to notice them. Shooters say that society has abandoned them and they feel utterly helpless to the point that they are filled with irrational hatred (abandon all morality no matter what exists). They abandon their will to live and release their wrath against society, and most will end up committing suicide afterward because they have no purpose left to live.


    I will say I have never heard people bring up abortion or supposed christian morality to this debate in regards to why shooters are made. I don't think a person mass killing people think it's okay to do so because abortion is legal, what is your evidence? They want to stand out from society, why would they even follow what society allows?

    The argument that video games and movies cause shootings is also, extremely weak. Many other countries like the Netherlands and South Korea consume much more videogames than we do. Yet, they have less crime and shootings than us. Scientific studies show no connection between these shootings and violent movies/videogames, care to prove me wrong?

    Also, the "lie" of separation of church and state is far from a lie and the country will never become a religious state, but that is obvious. Not everybody in this country is christian, the "shared morals" you talk about shared across the entire country is frankly another generalization. Saying that everybody at one point had the exact same morals as you? That's definitely false.
    The trolls have taken over this website
  • AlofRIAlofRI 462 Pts
    Funny how we recorded so many other events from the past. I would think that the mass killing of children, for no reason, would have been reorced.@Happy_Killbot
    We have to consider that the NRA did not exist back then. There was no "organization" elevating the whole idea, (and condoning the ability), in people's imaginations. Another thing, all knew when they were caught they likely wouldn't be killed immediately with a Gatling Gun (or a rapid fire automatic with, maybe, 15 rounds, they would be wounded with one shot, jailed (if they were lucky), and either lynched, which they would see coming, or tried and led to a gallows and hung by the neck until dead. Neither something to look forward to.
    You are really showing a sick side of yourself by defending the right to bear arms WITH the right to mass killings … if one desires. Ah, the Second Amendment! Second only to evangelical rights to modify the Constitution it is a part of … to more closely follow your Bible, and the cruelty within it.

    The Constitution is NOT chiseled in stone, it is MEANT to be amended and have amendments modified or removed "in order to create a more perfect union." The Second could be modified to todays standards, in consideration of the changes from the days of the Sixgun, while still allowing the basic "Right to bear arms". If we were to limit to the years you are using as a "f'rinstance", would you be happy?? I think not. Why then would you compare now to then?

    Well over 60% of the NRA WANTS reasonable gun restrictions! Why do crazy radical "Christians" like yourself stand up for the ability to "mow'em down!?? 
    We_are_accountable
  • @We_are_accountable

    I would reccomend you stop tearing down those who you supposedly side with on the issue, unless you are a complete phony.

    If you vote for Democrats, spare me all your arguments to protect gun rights because the Democrat Party is being taken over by the extreme Left whose ultimate goal is to take our guns, as they have done in Socialist Europe. Maybe you can put your head in some hole and believe the rhetoric from Democrats who claim they do not want to ultimately take our guns.

    I agree with all your reasons for keeping our guns, but would never judge you for not speaking to my reasons.

    You say that Hollywood censorship would never work, but have no problem when the Left has censored Religiuos expression on public grounds. I'm not saying to censor Hollywood. I'm saying SPEAK OUT AGAINST THEM! Shame them for the garbage they put out for the almighty dollar. Boycotting their violent garbage would change their movies in a heart beat.

    The Left loves to boycott pro life States, or those who want to keep LGBT hysteria out of our public schools, but when it comes to Hollywood, never a peep.

    You say this is not a break down of our culture and families? It absolutely is a combination of all the things I spoke to.

    You gave good reasons why Government should never take our guns. I gave you the reasons why guns are not the problem! It's our culture! It's time someone started addressing the core reasons for these mass killings instead of talking about the weapon of choice.

    It's not the number of people killed, but the depravity of those who do it. This argument of banning large ammo clips is secondary to whatw we should be talking about, which is a culture producing these monsters.@Happy_Killbot
    No, you need to be torn down because you are a danger to the cause.

    Consider this: Think about the last 5 -10 youTube videos, memes, or stories you heard about liberals, or any you have seen in the past where someone is just getting "triggered" when talking to a conservative and then doesn't say or do anything of value. You know the type I'm talking about.

    These videos are "bad actors" that is to say, they have no idea what they are talking about and so they give their group a bad name.

    In this case, many of the arguments you are using are doing the same thing, and this is apparent in many of the comments you have had with others, just in this thread.

    What this means is that you are really going to need to challenge yourself and actually find good arguments and be as critical as possible for the ones you already have, so that you can make as strong an argument as possible.

    I'm telling you that the "culture is the problem" is a terrible argument. First off, it doesn't make a lot of sense, because it isn't like someone sees a gun once in a movie and then they are a criminal all of a sudden. Second, you are advocating for censorship, in other words violation of the first amendment. If you want to make a serious argument that the first should be violated to protect the second, then which amendment do you think will be next on the chopping block? Yes that's a slippery slope fallacy, but the point still stands: It is not justified to give up one amendment to protect another, there should not be compromise.
    We_are_accountable
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    I agree; @We_are_accountable gives off the impression of someone who spends a lot of time in their political echo-chamber and never gets challenged by criticism from outside that chamber. It is very important to have one's ideas criticised from the outside, as well as by oneself, otherwise those ideas become unfounded dogmas and skew one's objectivity.

    Here is a good rule of thumb I discovered approximately a decade ago: if you do not see any issues with some belief you hold, then you have not thought that belief through enough. Every single position we have is deeply flawed, and recognising those flaws is the first step towards developing a logical position.

    Here is a very good exercise which is very uncomfortable to do, but extremely effective. Take some widely held opinion and write two large essays, criticising the opinion in one and supporting it in another. No matter how strongly you personally support or disagree with the opinion, you have to take both positions.
    A bonus version of this for those good at writing dialogues: write a dialogue between two people, one of which holds the opinion and the other criticises it, and make sure to make the narrative of each participant compelling.

    They really should give such exercises to kids at schools. They are extremely effective at getting people to develop balanced beliefs resistant to criticism. They also help one realise that very few things in the world are certain; not understanding this holds a lot of people back in life, as they believe they have figured out the truth and end up acting in dissonance with the reality, making mistakes and never learning from them.
    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
  • @MayCaesar The debates that I know I know well I can argue both sides effectively. Gun control is one of those debates.

    It kind of annoys me when I get into a discussion and my interlocutor drops the most basic of arguments and uses tactic that have been tried and failed thousands of times before. I want to hear unique arguments and novel debate tactics, because I learn nothing when I have to refute the same argument a hundred times. This is especially true of theist, who as far as I can tell have been making the same flawed arguments for at least 300 years.

    I like a challenge, I want a challenge. Those that do not challenge me I find to be rather disappointing.

    This being said, there are certain subjects, mostly political matters which I do have a certain set opinion on and desire certain outcomes. When I run into people who are doing this subject a disservice by spreading bad information or making weak arguments that came out of echo chambers, I need to put them in their place, because they are like a bystander who is trying to save someone's life when EMT is already taking care of the body, although their heart is in the right place their execution is bad and the best help they can give is to get out of the way.
    MayCaesar
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Can you read? I said I did not want censorship of Hollywood. I said people like yourself should also speak out against the sick twisted violence they put on the screen for money.
    What planet do you live on where you can't do both? Speak out on why you believe they should not take our guns, and also speak out against a culture of violence, death, broken families and self love.

    You can live in some bubble, making sure we keep our guns, and never doing a thing to help prevent these barbaric  mass killings. Most of us want to do both keep our guns, and address the reasons why so many of these mass killings of children and strangers are happening for the first time in our history.@Happy_Killbot
  • edited February 10
    I don't know why I would think you would be any more intelligent on this site then on "". You say the same distorted lies, spewing your anti Christian Bigotry, and I say IGNORE!@AlofRI
    AlofRIsmoothie
  • @We_are_accountable Can you read? I don;t care what people put on TV and in movies for money, I will defend the right of Hollywood and anyone else to make movies and media which includes guns and violence to the grave as a means of freedom of speech. If you don't like this content, don't watch it. You complain that "the Left has censored Religiuos expression on public grounds" But what you fail to comprehend is that to do this is to censor other non-Christian religions. Whether intentional or not, you do support censorship indirectly.

    I find it incredibly unlikely that movies and TV are the problem, I don't think they ever were, the problems lie deep in human psychology. For example, has it occurred to you that the overwhelming majority of the killings were carried out by men? This fact is not accounted for in your theory. Have you noticed the connection between sexual repression and violent urges? There is an argument to be made to this extent, but being as neither of us is an expert on this issue I don't think our blind speculation should be considered favorably without rigorous verification.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • If you can't reply with honestly. ignore me!

    I DID NOT SAY TO CENSOR HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

    I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THAT I DO NOT WANT TO CENSOR THE FREEDOM OF COMMUNITIES TO HAVE SYMBOLS OF OTHER RELIGIONS IF THE PEOPLE SO CHOOSE!

    YOU ARE THE CENSOR OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION. STOP SAYING IT IS ME!@Happy_Killbot
    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
  • @We_are_accountable

    You still don't get it do you...how many times have I replied to your suggestion, and what did I suggest?

    I'm asking you to tell me what my stance was so that I know that you know what it is.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
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