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What kind of world would we have if everyone tore down things that offended them?
in Politics

How would you like living in a world whereby the strongest most outspoken bullies in society, dictated which Statues or monuments were allowed to stand? Right now we have the Democrat Party, and those on the Left, turning a blind eye as their voting blocks are taking law into their own hands.

How would you like it if powerful racist groups took control of one half of our Government, going into our cities, destroying statues of Martin Luther King or other historical figure, while our Congressional leaders said and did nothing.

If you elect today's radical Democrats, whose goal it is to transform America, then YOU are the problem. You are the hypocrite who once stood for freedom of speech, freedom of expression, etc.
Your ideals were so shallow, that corrupt politicians could easily buy you off with free stuff.

Come election day, ask yourself if you believe in freedom of expression, or vigilanty mobs destroying anything that offends. Laws are the only thing preventing another civil war! Stop electing corrupt politicians who live to divide and conquer.
xlJ_dolphin_473markeHappy_KillbotAlofRIJustAnAllMightFanSkepticalOneDonsonRonald
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Arguments

  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @We_are_accountable

    Democrat mayors are notoriously wrong for supporting mob violence which violates the civil rights of city residents, but are right to change their attitude towards the mobs when they show up on their doorstep.

    When CHOP activists took over six blocks of Seattle, Mayor Jenny Durkan defended the illegal occupation as a block party. She enabled the activism by delivering portable toilets, park services, and trash pick-up.

    When the very same or similar activists marched to her home, pushed by Socialist Councilmember Kshama Sawant, Durkan wasn’t so accommodating of the block party because she felt endangered. She immediately demanded the Seattle City Council investigate Sawant and consider expelling her from the dais.

    We_are_accountableAlofRIDonsonRonald
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    I still do not quite understand this propensity of people on the West to be "offended" by things. The concept is alien to me. Perhaps because I grew up in a different culture, where it is expected that you learn to deal with your emotional demons, and where showing them to the public constitutes a weakness that can be used against you. Yet here many people are all too happy to tell everyone how someone's words "offended" them. Or statues. How can a statue offend anyone? It is just a static object; a statue cannot speak, so who and how can it offend?

    There are things in this world that I will never understand, it seems. I can understand being offended by a group of bullies picking on you daily. I do not understand being offended by someone saying something that is not even addressed to you, let alone by a statue standing somewhere and doing nothing.
    We_are_accountableefmarschall4actt
  • @We_are_accountable
    I don't see how it makes any sense to build statues of the same force that tried to invade us and then proceed to portray them in a glorifying light.
    But hey that's just me
    We_are_accountableDonsonRonald
  • @JustAnAllMightFan

    Did you grasp anything at all from what I posted? I asked you how you would like it if others who totally dissagree with you, started tearing down monuments and historical figures that you liked.

    You say, "but hey that's just me".

    What do you say to others who say "hey that's just me", when they support tearing down hisotrical figures they don't like? You can not be so blind and arrogant to only see your side of things? CAN YOU?

    So are you ok with a few Pro life people tearing down abortion clinics? They would have very good reasons for doing so, but we have these things called "LAWS"?

    Are you starting to get it? Nah, you are part of the Left who are the arrogant authoritarian thought police. They will decide how we must all think on issues.
    Happy_KillbotAlofRIDonsonRonald
  • @MayCaesar

    WE AGREE!!! WOW!

    Now stop electing these politicians who are supposedly so offened by such things..
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    @We_are_accountable

    You are asking me? I have never cast a single political vote in my entire life. Nor will I ever.
  • edited July 30
    @We_are_accountable
    Key word: Glorification
    You claim to be patriotic yet support the GLORIFICATION of a force that tried to end this nation. See the contradiction? Your largest fault is your inability to see the shades of grey in your opponents arguments. If someone claims that they don't support the glorification of the confederacy your mind automatically goes to a position of blinded defense "Oh so you want EVERYTHING you don't like to be torn down?!".
    No, in fact I am a large defender of free speech. That's why I totally support the preservation of the confederacy through history novels and museums. However I will not accept the intellectual dishonesty of presenting the force as the force worthy of admiration and glory when in reality they obviously weren't. When we glorify things to push a biased false narrative, it is no longer history, it is mythology. I for one, have no patience for fables, I want truth. And the glorification of the Confederacy could not be further from the truth of what their true motives were.
    We_are_accountableindependentlyAlofRIAsher34
  • @MayCaesar

    Well maybe it's time to start voting if you do not like seeing mob rule in our world.
  • We_are_accountableAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @We_are_accountable ;

    In case you missed the Memo, MayCaesar is a permanent resident, he literally can't vote in US elections.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @JustAnAllMightFan

    Only in your insecure mind do historical monuments imply glorification. It's history and acknowledgement that we have improved as a nation since those times.

    Im still waiting for you to sanction the tearing down of abortion clinics, because to many, such as myself, they glorify the killing of our most innocent lives. Should we allow mob rule to start tearing down things they believe to be evil?
    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @Happy_Killbot
    Hey we can't take down things that offend us can we? 
    ;)
    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @We_are_accountable
    It's not history because it's being twisted to fit the mold that some desire them to be in. Confederate generals are often position on horseback with their heads held high, letting the viewer know that this man deserves a degree of admiration. In reality, they don't. I can not bring myself to admire a terrorist force that tried to end my country. My issue with the statues is not that they offend me but that they are advocating for a twisted version of history. That they are enforcing the public to believe a lie.
    If this is the hill you choose to die on, then that is your choice.
    Frankly I find it ironic that you are pro life when you have openly stated that you don't support the ending of the drug war which has killed millions, you don't support preventative methods such as contraceptives and mental/emotional therapy to prevent abortions from happening, every time I have given you a plan to end gang violence which has been proven to work everywhere else it has been attempted, you ignore and instead insist on bashing me.
    Honestly I don't think you care about the sanctity of life it all, you only use it when it conveniently fits your narrative.
    We_are_accountableHappy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @JustAnAllMightFan

    Again you refuse to address my question to you. You know I am right and therefore spew rhetoric verses answering the simple question.

    IGNORE
    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @Happy_Killbot

    That is the most ludicrous fake news statue I've ever seen, and the reason you are not a credible debater.

    IGNORE
    Happy_KillbotAlofRI
  • @Happy_Killbot

    That is the most ludicrous fake news statue I've ever seen, and the reason you are not a credible debater.

    IGNORE
    Happy_Killbot
  • @Happy_Killbot

    That is the most ludicrous fake news statue I've ever seen, and the reason you get ignored.

    Happy_Killbot
  • @We_are_accountable
    If it helps you sleep at night
    Happy_Killbot
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 2404 Pts
    edited July 30
    @We_are_accountable ;

    It's a real statue and frankly, it's a work of art. Look at all the symbolic details, let me just name a few:
    • The 'flakiness" of the statue is both a representation of the gilded campaign Trump runs, covering the rot of his character with gold.
    • The corners of the base have golf balls, a dedication to all the time wasted on frivolous luxury
    • The bible in his hand is representative of his appearance of having a "god fearing moral character" when that is blatantly not the reality.
    • The police officer and the protester are a reference to that time that Trump had protesters cleared with force so he could cross the road for a photo-op
    • The inscription "The Poser" ties the whole facade together into a few simple words.
    There is so much depth and meaning here, only a fool or the deliberately ignorant could look past.

    Maybe you will think twice now about not wanting offensive statues removed!
    AlofRIWe_are_accountableAsher34
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    edited July 31
    @We_are_accountable

    Someone has estimated that the probability to die on your way to the voting point is higher than the probability that your vote will make a difference. With this in mind, participating in voting becomes illogical.

    Besides, politics to me is much less of a deal than you might think. I was born in Soviet Union... Nothing that can possibly happen in the US or in any other developed country in the foreseeable future is going to scare me.

    I vote with my feet and my wallet. I do not trust the democratic process and want no part in it.
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    I believe the democrats will make sure the American voter does not interfere with their voter fraud in 2020.


    independentlyWe_are_accountableHappy_KillbotAlofRIAsher34liberalwithmorals
  • I believe it is fine to take down confederate statues, but not to get rid of them. Even during the time of the Confederacy, America knew that their ideals were immoral. Heck, even Robert E. Lee spoke out against having confederate statues. The statues that stand of these people are meant to glorify them as heroes for fighting for their cause. At present, we know that many of these men were not heroes and that their cause was not heroic. 

    Many will say that taking these statues is an attempt to erase the past, which is a valid concern. That is why I personally believe that there should be museums exactly for the purpose of Confederate statues and memorabilia that could give more insight into the past. If you don't understand history you are doomed to repeat it.

    I would question the ethicality of removing some of these statues, depending on what the statue is meant to glorify. We have statues of the founding fathers who were great men, but some of them were slave holders. Having slaves was just as wrong then as it is today, but the statues that stand of these men are not glorifying slavery. They are glorifying the heroic traits that founded our nation. It would be to take down statues of people who are not perfect because we would have no statues. But we can choose what statues continue to stand, in order to align with what we currently believe is just. This is not erasing the past, as long as you keep the statues but show them in a different light.
    JustAnAllMightFanindependently
  • romir7romir7 34 Pts
    Rk China is biggest example lol
  • @marke ;
    I believe the democrats will make sure the American voter does not interfere with their voter fraud in 2020.
    Maybe it's just poor choice of words, but it sound's like you are saying that the Democrats are trying to make sure that they commit voter fraud, like what the RNC actually did in 2016 with the help of Russia.

    Is this what you are saying?
    AlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    @marke

    No fraud is needed, when you guys are willingly voting for one of the most dishonest candidates in the US history.

    Many people think that political outcomes tend to be so bad compared to their expectations because the system is rigged somehow. In reality, the system simply gives them what they ask for. It just so happens that there is a difference between what people want, and what they ask for.

    Voting with your feet or wallet is the only way of voting that makes a difference, because when you want to go to paradise, there are no millions people dragging you to hell with them through their votes. When your choice affects your outcome, then you are in charge of your life. When other people's does, then you are a slave to their "collective" will - which, as follows from the Game Theory, has little to do with the "sum" of their individual wills.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 829 Pts
    The problem I see is that we have to learn to not put offending things up in the first place! Then we wouldn't have to tear them down. The mistakes were made, mostly, back when people were passionate about things a majority of them in the area felt were legitimate. They didn't give a damn about what a minority felt. Today, that minority has grown and has a voice in the matters. In a democracy, we have to think ahead and consider ALL of the people. I think we are now learning that, hopefully. At least MANY of us are.
    liberalwithmorals
  • @Monketrunk

    The question is if it is ok for the Democrat Party to turn a blind eye to rioters who are tearing down our monuments. Do you want mob rule deciding which Statues are allowed? Or what movies are allowed, or what books, etc. This political correct authoritarian Left is destroying the freedoms in America.

    If we want to talk about evils today, then millions of Americans would be justified to tear down abortion clinics. These deaths far out number Slavery deaths.
    Happy_KillbotMonketrunkliberalwithmorals
  • @AlofRI

    When you pious hypocrites start to think ahead and recognize the barbaric No Restriction abortions you support, how about learning from your inhumanity.
    Happy_KillbotAlofRIliberalwithmorals
  • @We_are_accountable ;

    Abortions have killed 0 people and caused no suffering at all because fetus's are not people and do not consciously feel pain, unless you can prove that they are.
    xlJ_dolphin_473AlofRIWe_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • AlofRIAlofRI 829 Pts
    You slam us for "killing babies", then adore an individual who is responsible for dozens, maybe hundreds of babies AND children and fetuses WITH the mothers in Turkey .... babies of our allies, who is friendly with a murderous criminal (one of many), this one supporting killings in Afghanistan where we are TRYING to make peace. How many Afghan babies have been killed? Maybe you should re-think the meaning of hypocrite? Or do just American babies "count"?
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • @We_are_accountable
    What is so barbaric about abortion? Abortion is simply the process of ending a pregnancy. If both parents agree, I see nothing wrong with this.
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    I'm saying the democrats have a history of voter fraud and rigged elections.  Hillary interfered with the 2016 election to guarantee Bernie would not win the election and there is as much evidence that Russians interfered on Hillary's behalf in the 2016 election as there was any evidence that Russians interfered on Trump's behalf.  However, we have never seen any reasonable proof that Russians did anything others around the world were doing for one or the other candidate but that no matter what overseas actors may or may not have done, no foreign actor has ever been accused of altering the actual vote counts.


    Happy_KillbotWe_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    I believe you mention what I believe was the driving force which caused so many former Obama officials to break so many federal laws in attempting to unseat President Trump.  They thought of Trump as evil and a national security risk, making  their illegal efforts to unseat him heroic in their thinking.  That would be like saying the Watergate break-in was an heroic act designed to save the country from evil democrats.
    liberalwithmorals
  • @AlofRI

    I keep forgetting to ignore a hypocrite like you.
    Happy_Killbotliberalwithmorals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    @marke

    The fact that someone used the right narrative to come to wrong conclusions through dishonest actions does not undo the fact of that narrative being right. Trump is an extremely crooked politician; the fact that there are many crooked politicians among the leading Democrats as well does not change it. It is not wise to drop one's standards based on the current selection of candidates. If you do it ones, you will bring the standards to the lower level permanently. And again. And again. All the way into abyss. And Trump, Biden and Sanders are quite close to the abyss by historical standards.

    I refuse to make any concessions. I will only ever support a stellar candidate with nearly unquestionable credentials and views extremely close to mine. It might take 200 years for such a candidate to appear anywhere on Earth, but I will wait!
    JustAnAllMightFanliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    Democrats who justify the crimes of the Obamagate spies and condemn Trump for fake crimes prove they are either ignorant, deluded or crooked.
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    @marke

    And that helps Donald's case - how? Whataboutist arguments are not arguments. "Side Y is also bad, so side X is excused" does not fly in my space.

    Both leading Democrats and leading Republicans are crooked, corrupt to their root. I have never claimed otherwise.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    Democrats attempted to cast God and Jews out of their Muslim friendly 2012 democrat convention in Charlotte.  I'll stick with Trump, not those seeking to overthrow America for the democrat party.


    liberalwithmorals
  • We_are_accountable said:
    How would you like living in a world whereby the strongest most outspoken bullies in society, dictated which Statues or monuments were allowed to stand?

    That would be awful, but this has no relation to reality. In reality, it is small groups of people speaking out against misrepresentations of history often hatefully erected in response to glimpses of racial equality. 




    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @MayCaesar

    There is no justification for the democrat assaults on innocent Americans in their Obamagate spy on, crookedly entrap and falsely prosecute ongoing scandals.

    There is no excuse for Americans not massively objecting to the democrat violations of civil rights, suspension of due processes and flagrant bias in false prosecutions and unjust imprisonments of Americans for political reasons.  Persecuting and imprisoning political enemies is the stuff of fascist dictatorships and Americans by the tens of thousands are embracing such fascism and electing fascists to Congress by the manure cart loads.
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • @SkepticalOne

    So you are ok with rioters breaking the law and tearing down things YOU don't like.

    Are you so blind not to see the insanity of that position? Abortion clinics kill million of innocent unborn lives, and pro Life people could easily justify tearing down these death camps, BUT THEY DON'T!

    It matters not that there are people, such as yourself, who support killing even viable babies when voting Democrat. People do not agree with you, and under your reasoning can start taking law into their own hands.

    In your world, we would live in a constant state of terroristic civil war. The Democrat Party has thrown out the rule of law for the sake of votes. Any intelligent rational person should be outraged!

    WAKE UP TO THIS LEFTWING EXTREMISM!
    SkepticalOneliberalwithmorals
  • @SkepticalOne

    So you are ok with rioters breaking the law and tearing down things YOU don't like.

    Are you so blind not to see the insanity of that position? Abortion clinics kill million of innocent unborn lives, and pro Life people could easily justify tearing down these death camps, BUT THEY DON'T!

    It matters not that there are people, such as yourself, who support killing even viable babies when voting Democrat. People do not agree with you, and under your reasoning can start taking law into their own hands.

    In your world, we would live in a constant state of terroristic civil war. The Democrat Party has thrown out the rule of law for the sake of votes. Any intelligent rational person should be outraged!

    WAKE UP TO THIS LEFTWING EXTREMISM!
    Given the strawmen you've built, it seems you are unable or unwilling to address the actual arguments of your opposition. 

    Statues aren't being removed because of offense, but because they misrepresent history and perpetuate a system which rejects equality. They should be removed. If you'd like to talk about the process in which the statues should be removed, that would be a different debate, but I think it is your offense at the removal (and not the legality of it) which motivates you.

    The rest of your post is nothing but red herrings. Get an aquarium - they have no place in this debate.

    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • @SkepticalOne

    Wow! Talk about Crimsom Red Herrings.

    It matters not if you think a Statue should be removed by lawless mobs. You are a MORON if not willing to take a strong stand against such political lawlessness.

    If the American people want to create a referendum on removing things that offend a few, then great! We will also have referendums on removing things you like.

    I want to get rid of Planned Parenthood signs that represent the deaths of innocent viable babies. Do you understand what would happen if we started censoring anything that might offend the one?
    liberalwithmorals
  • SkepticalOneSkepticalOne 681 Pts
    edited August 3
    @We_are_accountable

    I don't think statues should be removed by lawless mobs. Statues are not being removed merely because they are offensive. These are strawman arguments.

    You being offended by Planned Parenthood is your personal problem. Come up with a valid logical reason for disallowing its existence and then we might be able to have a good faith discussion about it.
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • @SkepticalOne

    You are just like most on in the Democrat Party and those on the Left. You won't come out and say you agree with rioters overturning certain monuments. You simply refuse to take a strong stand against it, because these are the people who will vote for Democrats.

    That is as phony as it gets.
    liberalwithmorals
  • @We_are_accountable

    The flaws in your reasoning stand. You are not interested in correcting it which makes an honest conversation impossible. Have a nice day, sir.
    independentlyHappy_KillbotMonketrunkliberalwithmoralsJustAnAllMightFan
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @SkepticalOne

    Planned Parenthood murders unborn babies and traffics in their severed body parts while claiming to be only involved in preventative health issues.  They are a billion dollar industry which typically gives hundreds of millions of dollars a year to democrat causes.  We don't need the US government giving a billion dollars a year to the profitable organization just so they can redistribute that taxpayer money to democrats and democrat causes.


    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;
    A Satanic abortion is a religious ritual that is protected under the  Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) So if you support the US constitution and the 1st Amendment that grants religious liberty, then you support the right's of members of The Satanic Temple to get abortions.

    https://announcement.thesatanictemple.com/rrr-campaign41280784

    Are you anti-American, or do you support the first Amendment to the constitution?
    We_are_accountableliberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Phil413Phil413 35 Pts
    This is what is funny ( and scary) about the cancel culture; you can tear this or that statue down, rename teams or schools, etc, but the CC has no boundaries; eventually, the culture will land on the doorstep on the ones protesting now, stating what they do, how they act, and what they believe in is offensive and must be removed. Then what?
    lj123
  • @marke

    Mis-truths and rhetoric are not a logical reasons. Everything you uttered above is completely false or unsubstantiated as noted by the US government:

    https://oversight.house.gov/planned-parenthood-fact-v-fiction
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