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Trump suggests US election to be delayed. Who thinks this is a good idea?
in Politics

By Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 2404 Pts
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53597975

Trump claims that voting should be delayed until people can safely vote suggesting that people going out to vote could be a danger to their health, and that mail-in ballots are going to be fraudulent.

Is there a single person who thinks this is a good idea?

I think this is a very qualified "no" on both sides of the political isle.

First off, the US has never delayed an election. Not during the civil war, not during WWII, so I see no reason that we should delay it for a pandemic. It would be a disgrace to our government if we did so.

Second, the president has no authority to do so, only Congress can make this decision and is very much not interested in doing so.

There is a hard deadline of January 20 in the year following the general election IAW the 22 Amendment to the constitution, in which case congress decides who is president and will likely chose a democratic candidate.

To even suggest that the election should be delayed is a disgusting example of Trump's authoritarian ideals and his gross incompetence. If you desire freedom, you will not get it from Trump who only wants to control and manipulate. Trump is against equality and believes he is above the law. He thinks he can do whatever he wants at the risk and damage to anyone else, he obstructs justice and violates national security.  He needs to be brought to heel in the upcoming election.

Is there a single person who could possibly think that delaying the election is a good idea? In my opinion It is blatantly ignorant to think or even suggest so.
PlaffelvohfenSkepticalOneAlofRIxlJ_dolphin_473liberalwithmorals
At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
Through a long process of evolution this life 
developed into the human race.
Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

All of that so we can argue about nothing.



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Arguments

  • This attempt only demonstrates how scared he is and that he knows he's losing.

    The fact that he floats this idea is just the latest evidence of his fascist tendencies.
    AlofRIHappy_KillbotliberalwithmoralsZeusAres42JustAnAllMightFan
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • AlofRIAlofRI 829 Pts
    This "idea" is even having trouble getting floatation in the "swamp". It needs what the Navy used to call a "Mae West". Maybe Ivanka can help??  :blush:
    PlaffelvohfenHappy_Killbotliberalwithmorals
  • @Happy_Killbot
    When I thought of the downfall of Trump I thought it would be because of a generation-defying progressive movement that would take the establishment by storm. 
    So the reality that this isn't exactly the case and the person who will most likely end Trump is Joe Biden, is surprising to me.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    America is currently undergoing major changes and major violent advocacy for more changes.  The business shutdown has turned into a very bad idea.  School shutdowns are a very bad idea.  Riots and assaults on cops are very bad.  Defunding and demonizing the police is very bad.  Voter fraud is very bad.  Attempting to turn our elections over to crooks who dishonestly handle mail in ballots without supervision is an extremely bad idea.  Perhaps we could come up with a plan in which every mail in vote is tagged with each voter's specific indentification and thereby track down and arrest crooks who commit voter fraud.


    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenJustAnAllMightFanxlJ_dolphin_473independentlyliberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;
    America is currently undergoing major changes and major violent advocacy for more changes.  The business shutdown has turned into a very bad idea.  School shutdowns are a very bad idea.  Riots and assaults on cops are very bad.  Defunding and demonizing the police is very bad.  Voter fraud is very bad.  Attempting to turn our elections over to crooks who dishonestly handle mail in ballots without supervision is an extremely bad idea.  Perhaps we could come up with a plan in which every mail in vote is tagged with each voter's specific indentification and thereby track down and arrest crooks who commit voter fraud.
    How about we get the orange man out of office as the first step towards fighting corruption?

    He has been a disaster for this country. Everything wrong he thought that the government was doing he tried to do himself.

    Trump is a criminal, and will most likely try to meddle in the election long before the DNC does, just like was done in 2016 by the Russians. He was and remains an illegitimate president, and must not be allowed to delay the election.
    PlaffelvohfenDee
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @marke
    Don't try to use the "defunding the police" argument because I have explained multiple times to you the in depth plan that I and many others who think like me on this topic, have laid out. By defunding the police, we do not mean anarchy, we mean distributing those funds to other programs that will mitigate the single motherhood and economic disparities crime ridden communities face while also keeping a healthy dosage of law enforcement. We have virtually went in circles discussing this. You claim that we should be harder on crime. I return said claim with your method has proven to be ineffective and we must tackle the psychological and economic aspects that drive one to commit crime. In turn, you usually reply with a elaborately constructed word salad but basically reinforces the same fallacy that I debunked. After that the cycle continues. I don't mean to back you into a corner but please answer the question I brought up in our last debate; why are you complaining about crime yet advocate for a policy that has been scientifically proven to increase crime? Why are you defending a policy measure that would ensure that we would creat nothing but more economical drains that would depend on the welfare state?
    As for the riots, I have explained this to you as well. They are directly a result of the government's incompetence to take measures that other nation's have had in caring for the people. If you dislike the riots then surely you should be the primary person here championing for stimulus cheeks and affordable healthcare so that people won't have the incentive to riot. In addition in your last post on your thread you're implying that the democrats are the ones committing the majority of the voter suppression, yet the GOP has been proven to indulge in this behavior just as frequently if not more by advocating for ex con voter suppression, strict voter ID laws that purposely target minorities, in fact as the OP said, our republican president has publicly advocated for delaying the vote, coincidentally while his approval ratings are at some of their lowest and his opponent is beating him in many of the polls.
    PlaffelvohfenxlJ_dolphin_473
  • Yes, this is a bad suggestion.  If the election was delayed i would argue he should be booted.
    Happy_KillbotDeePlaffelvohfenJustAnAllMightFanindependentlypiloteerliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    I suspect many Americans still don't know the former Obama Justice Department officials broke multiple federal laws in their failed Obama-spy-gate fake Russian collusion investigation, so they do not understand why the democrats are so desperate to remove Trump before Barr and Durham blow their past crimes right out of the swamp water they were formed in.
    liberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @JustAnAllMightFan

    Thugs, criminals, terrorists and traitors all disrespect the police and want them defunded.

    Help restore respect for law and order in America.  Vote republican in 2020.
    liberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;
    marke said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    I suspect many Americans still don't know the former Obama Justice Department officials broke multiple federal laws in their failed Obama-spy-gate fake Russian collusion investigation, so they do not understand why the democrats are so desperate to remove Trump before Barr and Durham blow their past crimes right out of the swamp water they were formed in.
    Are you a professional Russian Troll?

    Or did you neglect to read the Mueller investigation report?

    Russia did in fact act to meddle in the US election with the explicit goal of getting Donald Trump elected. What was not proven however, is that Trump had organized for this to occur, indicating that Trump is Putin's meat puppet.

    Either way, he has got to go into the toilet where he belongs.
    liberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Millions of Americans will likely remain in the dark about what really happened with the DNC computers the democrats claim Russia hacked into.  It does not matter how many millions of people think the generally accepted narrative is true, the facts show otherwise.

        https://americanmilitarynews.com/2020/05/report-fmr-cia-chief-brennan-hid-intel-saying-russia-wanted-hillary-win-in-2016/ - Brennan hid evidence.
               
    Happy_Killbotliberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;

    You realize the Russians hacked the RNC's computers too right?

    They didn't release the dirt because they could use it to extort the GOP into accepting a non-republican non-politician candidate.

    Meanwhile, Trump has been obstructing justice and dismantling US laws, making this country look to our allies and weak to our enemies.

    Help restore respect for law and order in America.  Vote Biden in 2020.
    liberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Crowdstrike examined the DNC computers, and no other government investigators.  That was at the direction of the DNC and Hillary Clinton.  Mueller never found any evidence the Russians hacked the DNC computers and delivered the stolen material to Wikileaks, in spite of the fact that all the facts in the case were distorted in reporting to give the impression that he had found such evidence.  CrowStrike testified under oath before Cons=gress that they could not verify that the Russians had stolen the emails in question and delivered them to Wikileaks.

    I recommend people read the testimony before Congress and not blindly buy into misinformation being spread by lying democrat supporting crooked media propagandists.
    Happy_Killbot
  • @marke ;
    marke said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    Crowdstrike examined the DNC computers, and no other government investigators.  That was at the direction of the DNC and Hillary Clinton.  Mueller never found any evidence the Russians hacked the DNC computers and delivered the stolen material to Wikileaks, in spite of the fact that all the facts in the case were distorted in reporting to give the impression that he had found such evidence.  CrowStrike testified under oath before Cons=gress that they could not verify that the Russians had stolen the emails in question and delivered them to Wikileaks.

    I recommend people read the testimony before Congress and not blindly buy into misinformation being spread by lying democrat supporting crooked media propagandists.

    We are not talking about the same thing. Remember when Hilary's email got leaked? That was Russian hackers. They also Hacked the RNC's computers, but no data was released to the public.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Hillary was forgiven for leaking government secrets through her illegal server, because Strzok and Comey did not care that the Russians were reading everything she posted.  But then the two Obamagate spies proceeded to falsely accuse Trump of leaking, which was a lie that has done millions of dollars damage to America and innocent Americans.  The seditious crooks should be held accountable for their crimes.


    Happy_Killbot
  • @marke ;
    You know what I absolutely hate about the way you argue?

    You never seem to carry any idea through, it's all "here's a thing" <that get's disputed/ disproved> "well, here's another thing"

    If we were keeping score of all the times that something you said was rejected/disproved, or just off topic you would be at the top of the leader board.

    This thread is for talking about Trump's suggestion to delay the election.
    independently
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @marke
    Again why would I vote for any of the parties? Both aren't interested in taking any actual preventative methods towards crime so they're just going to make life more difficult. Why would I support someone who's criminal justice methods have been proven ineffective?
  • edited August 1
    @Happy_Killbot
    See I hate to criticize people because it makes me look like I'm bandwagoning to bully someone. But I just have to say that you are spot on about this. His debating style is literally the epitome of "bob and weaving" with a coat of high level vocabulary to give the illusion that his positions are competent.
    Happy_Killbotindependentlyliberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    I do not support the idea that the economy should be shut down and the voting system given over to potential massive fraud on the account of the coronavirus fears.  If democrats want to change our voting system then let them agree to add provisions to the new system which will guard against fraud, such as a voter ID.
    Happy_Killbot
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @JustAnAllMightFan

    Democrats say leave the violent mobs alone.  Trump wants the violence stopped by proper law enforcement.  I'm not sure who you think is promoting bad policy.
    Happy_Killbot
  • marke said:
    The business shutdown has turned into a very bad idea.  School shutdowns are a very bad idea.
    Sure, if you consider saving thousands of lives to be 'a very bad idea'...
    marke said:
    Riots and assaults on cops are very bad. 
    I don't think the riots are a good thing, but they may be required, sadly, to end systemic racism. If you consider ending systemic racism to be a bad thing, then...
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    I consider wild widespread false accusations against white Americans and cops to be a symptom of democrat sickness.  These types of systemic lies in the democrat party are very damaging to America.
    Happy_Killbot
  • marke said:
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    I consider wild widespread false accusations against white Americans and cops to be a symptom of democrat sickness.  These types of systemic lies in the democrat party are very damaging to America.
    Ok sure but how is that relevant to my point?
    liberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;

    Please stop trying to change the subject.

    the topic is: 

    Trump suggests US election to be delayed. Who thinks this is a good idea?

    liberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @marke
    Why are you deflecting from my questions? Answer the statement why are you in favor of a justice system that would only create more crime?
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    I think Trump is right to suggest we should delay the election if we cannot guarantee the election will not be open to widespread fraud.

    liberalwithmorals
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @JustAnAllMightFan

    How is giving the police proper space to apprehend and jail criminals giving rise to more crime?
    xlJ_dolphin_473liberalwithmorals
  • @marke ;

    You understand that this will almost certainly guarantee control of the white house by the DNC right?

    If the election is delayed, then by January 20 congress will assume control of the white house and Nancy Pelosi will effectively become the president. Furthermore, there is no reason to assume that delaying the election should give Trump any kind of re-election edge.

    We held an election during the civil war, and during WWII. Why should we make an exception now, instead of taking steps to reduce public health risk at the polls, say, stand 6 feet apart in line, require masks and wipe down any voting equipment?
    liberalwithmorals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • edited August 1
    @marke
    You're misrepresenting my argument by implying that I want the police to be severely limited in what they can do with criminals. What I am arguing for is what we do with said criminals while they are in our prison system. My position is that once arrested it would be better to send a great deal of criminals to community service/rehabilitation centers rather than prisons, because our prisons are proven ineffective. In addition, some of things we criminalize such as drug possession and drug dealing" really should not be criminal offenses because if pushed in the right direction a vast majority of these offenders have the potential to achieve economic independence. The main issue you deflect is my main argument and that is to tackle the root of crime which is poverty. I believe we can walk and chew gum simultaneously. We can both have a healthy dosage of law enforcement and focus on community outreach and preventative methods while your position seems to be solely that of strict Law and Order which has proven to be counterproductive.
    My largest qualm with your argument is that you rely on emotion. "Why do you want looters and delinquents out on the street?!" "Where is you sense of justice". Ironically those same emotions have only furthered the inefficiency on our criminal justice system. It is easy to paint all criminals as morally bankrupted and to get the public to adopt a strict Law and Order policy. But it is hard, to actually acknowledge that the fantasy of "justice" is just that a fantasy. You can take a pleasure in maintaining your narrative of heroic justice but realistically your method hasn't gotten us anywhere.
    Prohibition, the war on drugs, and the war on crime have been shinning examples that heavy criminalization only increases crime. Mainly because you are rounding up mass amounts of human beings into a tight space, denying them any practical resources that will help them become economically independent, creating a biased stereotypes towards ex convicts and then subjecting those same human beings to large amounts of emotional abuse. In turn, we let those human beings loose into society and somehow we are in awe when they begin to make irrational decisions. When you compare our prison system to that of other nations (particularly Norway) it becomes obvious that are formula is flawed.
    I am arguing for efficiency, you seem to be arguing based off of emotion.
    liberalwithmorals
  • The election wont be delayed. Trump has no authority to make such a call. Even Mitch McConnell said that the election would not be delayed and the president does not have that kind of power. 
    Happy_KillbotJustAnAllMightFanxlJ_dolphin_473
  • @liberalwithmorals ;

    I agree that it is very unlikely to happen, but do you think it is a good idea or not?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • edited August 1
    @Happy_Killbot
    Bad idea, the DNC already has Trump by the neck. If he tries to delay the election then that'll dig the Trump administration into a deeper grave and give the democrats more ammunition. I think the best shot Trump has of winning is reverting back to is 2016 formula of being (pretending to be) anti establishment and just go balls to the wall with political incorrectness. He's most likely going to lose anyways so in my mind the Trump campaign shouldn't play it safe 
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    I believe we will see voter fraud on a scale never before seen in the history of the US and, yes, for that reason I believe the good guys will lose and the bad guys will win, just like they have been doing in courts, in sham trials, in illegal baseless impeachement proceedings, in violence and murders, in the economis shutdowns and in so many other things.
  • @marke ;
    marke said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    I believe we will see voter fraud on a scale never before seen in the history of the US and, yes, for that reason I believe the good guys will lose and the bad guys will win, just like they have been doing in courts, in sham trials, in illegal baseless impeachement proceedings, in violence and murders, in the economis shutdowns and in so many other things.
    First off, what is this "good guy - bad guy" nonsense? Both political parties want what is best for the US, so the closest thing we have to "bad guys" is those who don't support the US, like I don't know, Vladimir Putin who actively helped Trump's campaign.

    Second, if there is any voter fraud it will almost definitely come from Trump because he is losing so bad in the polls.

    Why would the DNC need to bother with the effort to commit voter fraud if they can get rid of the bad guy Orange man without the need to cheat?

    It makes no sense whatsoever. The US has never delayed an election before, through snow and war and famine, I see no reason we should bother because of a pandemic when the problems can be easily averted.

    Would you not support in person voting with no delay to the election date with proper virus countermeasures over delaying the election?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @JustAnAllMightFan

    There is evidence that some of these efforts at rehabilitation have been tried and achieved only limited success.  I suspect spending more scarce money on expanded programs of the same will also have only limited success.

    I believe first and foremost that we should criminalize things like alcohol and substance abuse for the harm and death such abuse has caused in the past, knowing the same types of substance abuse will cause harm and death in the future.

    You know what the hue and cry of today is, "We should do everything in our power, even to the point of creating an economic disaster, to save just one more soul from dying."
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Assumptions that Trump or Trump supporters might commit voter fraud is a weak argument to make against past evidences of massive democrat voter fraud.  Elections have been delayed in the past.  Cuomo delayed the NY primary just this year on account of the coronavirus.
  • @marke ;

    marke said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    Assumptions that Trump or Trump supporters might commit voter fraud is a weak argument to make against past evidences of massive democrat voter fraud.  Elections have been delayed in the past.  Cuomo delayed the NY primary just this year on account of the coronavirus.
    Did you know that a US ambassador asked Brazilian leaders for help in the election?

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/8/1/21350810/us-ambassador-brazil-chapman-favor-ethanol-trump-reelection

    Not only would Trump ask for help committing voter fraud, but he almost definitely will, because he hates America.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @marke
    Show the evidence that our system of Law and Order has been proven to lower crime, public approval, and poverty more than rehabilitation. Explain to me why Norway's justice system which has resulted in less overall crime is less productive than ours.
    In addition your stance for legalizing substances on alcohol, is frankly, shortsighted, and also full of contradictions.
    Even if we are going to ignore the fact that we tried exactly that with prohibition and all it did was lead to increase homicide and violence, meaning it created more victims, the philosophy of punishing someone for being sick lacks much common sense.
    Addiction is a cruel combination of mental and physical illness, it must be treated through medical/emotional therapy not through federal punishment institutes. Emotions aside, putting every one who has a substance addiction in prison would in the long term only lead to mass amounts of emotional damage and in turn would make their addiction get worse if not drive them to commit acts that have more collateral damage such a homicide. In addition, punishing someone for substance addiction would only create more dependants on the welfare state which would result in a weaker economy. On the other hand if were to treat their addiction the way virtually every medical and psychological professional has prescribed, then we would still ensure that these former victims now having no distractions or illness holding them down have the opportunity to seek higher education and/or careers which would mean more capital to goes back into the economy resulting in a net gain for all of us. Lastly, if we're banning substances that would kill us, then by your logic we must ban most fast-food items, foods high in high-fructose corn syrup, and foods high in artificial sugars since they kill more Americans annually than alcohol or drugs. However I am confused. Weren't you the one complaining about how Mike Bloomberg was issuing a ban on large soft drinks? Why are you advocating for a ban on dangerous substances when literally a few days ago you held great strife when someone proposed virtually the same plan as yours but with only a different substance? In fact, at least Mike only called to ban soft drinks only in large sizes, in your proposal you didn't even take into account moderation, you were in favoring in banning the substance as a whole.
    Honestly none of the evidence turn towards your position. The war on drugs and prohibition have both been massive failures in the sense that all they did was increase crime.
    Lastly, your quote at the end means very little in this discussion. Mainly because your method isn't saving anyone. Throwing that "soul" you speak off, in prison wouldn't save him from addiction, it would only make his life worse. Not to mention that your method would only lead to more deaths and violence, and the economic collapse that some areas would suffer from would surely lead to even more casualties. In reality you're not saving a soul, you're ruining the lives of multiple others for a false sense of justice.
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    After the fall of the Soviet Union declassified documents revealed that Ted Kennedy had specifically requested help from Russia in defeating Reagan in the 1984 election.  Are all politicians liars and cheats?  Are political parties which protect and promote lying and cheating also corrupt?  I think so.

    Sen. Edward “Ted” Kennedy had “selfish political and ideological motives” when he made secret overtures to the Soviet Union’s spy agency during the Cold War to thwart then-President Ronald Reagan’s re-election, a Reagan biographer said in an interview with The Daily Signal.

    When they came to light years later, Kennedy’s secret contacts with the Russians through their KGB spy agency in the early 1980s didn’t cause nearly the tizzy that Russia’s alleged interference with this year’s election has for President-elect Donald Trump among liberal activists and reporters.



    Happy_Killbot
  • @marke ;

    You are deflecting again! Do you really have nothing useful to say?

    The topic is:

    Trump suggests US election to be delayed. Who thinks this is a good idea?

    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    Under the currently predominant paradigm that "saving lives" trumps any other consideration, the idea to postpone the election makes a lot of sense. The only problem that I can possibly see with this in this context is that the obvious conflict of interests is present. Were Trump not eligible or planning to run in the upcoming election, his proposal would be sound. Given that he is planning to run, the rules of decency say that he should not be the one proposing it, or even taking a public stance on. But that seems like a minor objection, not something invalidating the whole proposal.

    Now, I think that this paradigm itself is abhorrent. If you are willing to give up on all of your basic principles to save some lives, then your principles are not worth a single penny. Constitutional constraints are there for a reason; no lockdowns of any kind should take place in the US. 
    But something tells me that all of those folks criticizing Trump's proposal here will support this paradigm. Which makes me think that this thread is really about a usual partisan attack and nothing else.
  • @MayCaesar ;
    Under the currently predominant paradigm that "saving lives" trumps any other consideration, the idea to postpone the election makes a lot of sense. The only problem that I can possibly see with this in this context is that the obvious conflict of interests is present. Were Trump not eligible or planning to run in the upcoming election, his proposal would be sound. Given that he is planning to run, the rules of decency say that he should not be the one proposing it, or even taking a public stance on. But that seems like a minor objection, not something invalidating the whole proposal.
    Yeah, that sound's like a good idea, let's push off the election until the middle of F***ing flu season in order to "save lives" in the middle of a pandemic.

    It's not like mail-in ballots are being expanded and we can take precautions at the in person polls, like practicing social distancing and wiping down equipment.

    If your goal is life preservation, it would make more sense to hold the election early, in late September or early October.
    Now, I think that this paradigm itself is abhorrent. If you are willing to give up on all of your basic principles to save some lives, then your principles are not worth a single penny. Constitutional constraints are there for a reason; no lockdowns of any kind should take place in the US. 
    But something tells me that all of those folks criticizing Trump's proposal here will support this paradigm. Which makes me think that this thread is really about a usual partisan attack and nothing else.
    This isn't even about saving lives, Trump doesn't care for people unless he can get something out of them. His main argument is that the election will be "rigged" and we will see "massive voting fraud like never seen before" which is really code for: "I intend to rig the election because I know I will lose if I don't" 

    To Trump, the mail in ballot will enable his demise, because normal working people who normally don't vote on account of they work can now participate in the election, giving the DNC an overwhelming advantage.

    This proposal is completely illogical, unnecessary, and not even a thinly concealed sociopathic vie for power.
    JustAnAllMightFan
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    edited August 2
    @Happy_Killbot

    Hong-Kongers ruled by a corporate-like directorate board of meritocrats saw nothing wrong with their election being rescheduled. Neither did Canadians. Neither did the British. Neither did the Germans. Neither did the Australians. Neither did the Austrians. Neither did the Spanish. Neither did the Italians. Neither did people in dozens countries around the world.
    Strangely, I do not see any condemnation of those decisions here. I wonder why? Perhaps because they followed the experts' advice which people normally listen to, when they are not set out to politicize everything?

    You seem to be overly concerned with what one person with orange hair thinks about the proposal. Not as much with the merit of the proposal itself. Which only confirms my suspicion raised above that this is about partisanship more than anything else.
    Happy_Killbot
  • @MayCaesar ;
    And here are countries not delaying their elections:
    Singapore
    France
    India
    Iceland
    Ukraine
    USA

    Some of the countries you list held certain elections anyways, such as Germany, Italy, and Austria. Hong Kong is hardly a "corporate-like directorate board of meritocrats" last I checked the CCP effectively annexed it with the National security law and on top of that disqualified most of the candidates except the more extreme China-friendly ones. They are pushing off the election so they have time to track down and imprison all those who they don't agree with. Hardly a win for freedom now is it?

    In fact, under the national security law, I a US citizen could be arrested in Hong Kong for saying something like:

    I support Hong Kong Democracy

    But that is neither here nor there, unless you are looking for an explicit condemnation of countries that did delay their elections in which case, here it is.

    https://www.idea.int/news-media/multimedia-reports/global-overview-covid-19-impact-elections

    The proposal as stated above has no merit whatsoever. It will not save lives, because it would need to be held in December or January which is in the middle of flu season. I don't even think it will open up voter fraud, since we have done mail in ballots successfully in the past.
    JustAnAllMightFan
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3408 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Flu...? Now flu is suddenly the concern? How about all the countries that regularly hold elections in these months? How about other events, such as Christmas (which, depending on the predominant Christian nomination in the country, is celebrated either in December or January), when large crowds of people form all over the country? It has never been a publicly voiced concern as far as I remember, yet now that Trump proposed these particular months it suddenly is.

    And yes, some countries postponed elections, other countries did not. In the US certain cities or counties postponed local elections. Nobody seemed to question the rationale behind it up until now.

    I am sorry, but all I see in these arguments is the attempt to salvage your position which, in turn, seems to be caused by nothing but your dislike of Trump. I do not know how to test it, but my expectation is that, should Biden be elected and propose the same a year from now, you will not criticize him for it - just like you do not criticize Merkel or Trudeau.

    I have come to the conclusion that politics tends to turn even generally very rational people into tribal warriors. I have seen examples of that happening over and over. I myself have managed to avoid it largely because I have always distrusted all politicians, of all types, characters, political leanings, etc. But so many people are all too happy to take sides and employ a very biased approach where their camp is subjected to much softer quality standards than the opposing camp - it is a variation of the nirvana fallacy, if you will.
  • @MayCaesar ;
    Flu...? Now flu is suddenly the concern? How about all the countries that regularly hold elections in these months? How about other events, such as Christmas (which, depending on the predominant Christian nomination in the country, is celebrated either in December or January), when large crowds of people form all over the country? It has never been a publicly voiced concern as far as I remember, yet now that Trump proposed these particular months it suddenly is.
    Yes and No, obviously the flu is going to be an additional issue, but covid-19 is still the main threat. The worry is that it would come back worse during flu season, since this is what happened with the Spanish flu, H1N1, Small pox (more than once), and so many more.

    The point that I am trying to make here, is that if life maximization is your goal, then postponing the election isn't a good plan, because at most it can only be delayed until January 20, which means that the new election date would be right in the middle of flu-season which means that covid-19 will spread faster than if the election were held at it's normal time.

    If anything, the election should be held sooner and proper precautions should be taken, which are all practical such as requiring masks, social distancing in lines, wiping down machines, and mail in ballots.
    And yes, some countries postponed elections, other countries did not. In the US certain cities or counties postponed local elections. Nobody seemed to question the rationale behind it up until now.
    The US has never postponed an election in its history. Not for both the Civil war and WWII. This is trivial in comparison, especially after taking proper precautions such as requiring masks, social distancing in lines, wiping down machines, and mail in ballots.
     am sorry, but all I see in these arguments is the attempt to salvage your position which, in turn, seems to be caused by nothing but your dislike of Trump. I do not know how to test it, but my expectation is that, should Biden be elected and propose the same a year from now, you will not criticize him for it - just like you do not criticize Merkel or Trudeau.
    Keep in mind the GOP also opposes postponing the election. This is a bipartisan issue. For the record, I would still oppose postponing the elections, and I don't particularly care for Biden. It just makes so much more sense to hold the election on time and take precautions such as requiring masks, social distancing in lines, wiping down machines, and mail in ballots.
    I have come to the conclusion that politics tends to turn even generally very rational people into tribal warriors. I have seen examples of that happening over and over. I myself have managed to avoid it largely because I have always distrusted all politicians, of all types, characters, political leanings, etc. But so many people are all too happy to take sides and employ a very biased approach where their camp is subjected to much softer quality standards than the opposing camp - it is a variation of the nirvana fallacy, if you will.
    First off, you are not a saint, and are yourself an irrational political extremist by all measures. Don't try to give yourself some sort of pass on this matter, because we both know that you are just as irrational and tribal as the rest of us. I can find plenty of examples of you saying things that are very biased and place you in your own particular camp. It is not humanly possible to avoid doing this, since if you were 100% rational, you would sit there until you died having no reason to do anything, including basic life functions. Everyone has to have some sort of goal or arbitrary driving force, thankfully a general set comes pre-installed thanks to evolution.

    Consider: Why are you even participating in this debate? Is there a logical reason for that?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Listen can we please argue about the present president. Obama has been out of office for almost four years. Move on with your life already accept that he happened. And actually contribute relevant comment please. @marke
  • markemarke 334 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Trump suggests US election to be delayed. Who thinks this is a good idea?

    I think the election should be delayed until voter rolls are purged of ineligible voters and some way is formulated which can guarantee no crooks are casting fraudulent votes in efforts to steal the election.

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