(Science/Philosophy) Deterministic indeterminism: It looks as if we've "hit a wall" - The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com - Debate Anything The Best Online Debate Website | DebateIsland.com
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(Science/Philosophy) Deterministic indeterminism: It looks as if we've "hit a wall"

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Like several other things this something that I often end up having debates about with myself. It's like there are two halves of myself with one half exclaiming "Ah, I've got it" and another half that says "hey, wait a minute, what about this?" And no, I am not Schizo haha.

Anyway, it's been established by numerous physicists that the universe and everything are in fact indeterministic. In the early days, a lot of Physicists including Albert Einstein believed that everything was pre-determined, set in stone. Then one day, Werner Heisenberg came along and changed all this by demonstrating the Heisenberg uncertainty principle or indeterminacy principle. https://www.britannica.com/science/uncertainty-principle. Now, even though this discussion isn't about free will and even though freewill may come into it I am going to reference the following video as there is mention of these things.



Also, I think the uncertainty principle strongly supports the big bang theory.


Moreover, this leaves us with the question "But how did all this randomness come about?" Then we come to the notion of "deterministic indeterminism." That is the idea that all this randomness was pre-determined, destined to happen. And so it is we come to another question about what came before this determinisim that resulted in indeterminism and so the questions go on and on. It's much like asking "if there is God what came before God and what came before that" and so on and so on. And so it is here that we've hit a wall in this race. And I'm sorry to say Theists but scientists are in the lead in this race by miles.

Or perhaps the questions touched upon in the previous paragraph are operating out of some kind of illusion that there is a thing such as a beginning and an end. Time is just an illusion and there is no beginning or end; just this continuous loop of existential energy and matter, we mere mortals just happen to be a byproduct of it all although a pretty impressive one at that. As Einstein also said, "Matter is not something that can be created or destroyed; only transformed."

Well, I am not really sure how to conclude this debate as it's basically just saying we're at a point where we're currently having difficulties get past. But feel free to discuss away.






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  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 Emerald Premium Member 1750 Pts   -   edited February 19
    So, what are your thoughts? Does there really have to be something that governs the indeterminacy or perhaps our reasons for thinking there must be is all illusory?



  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 2318 Pts   -  
    @ZeusAres42

    ---" perhaps our reasons for thinking there must be is all illusory?"

    We might "feel" that there must be a reason but if there was, there would be no indeterminacy at all, there would be predeterminacy (planned, as opposed to random), which implies a planner... 

    I see it that way, Reality is determined probability... Probability is calculation, determinacy is manifested when a result is produced. Impossibility is a closed loop in the calculation that cannot produce a result, no matter how long the calculation runs... 
    ZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
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