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Today is Memorial Day in America: Persuade Me That ALL Military Veterans Deserve Respect

Debate Information

As a draftee during the Vietnam War, I met many fellow soldiers who deserved PTSD and worse.  They were usually volunteers who enjoyed killing:  Helicopter door gunners, snipers, and infantrymen.  I have no respect for murderers having fun.  Why should I?



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    Arguments


  • Keal303NXQ3Keal303NXQ3 170 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: The difference between a murder and a soldier:

    The difference between an immoral killer and a combatant is that one doesn't hurt civilians while the other one does.

    If a soldier kills many civilians they are no longer a soldier but a murderer.

    Soldiers fight other soldiers, not civilians.
    Jean
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Respect Should Be Earned, Not Given Blindly

    @Keal303NXQ3
    If a soldier kills many civilians they are no longer a soldier but a murderer.
    Exactly.  That's why some veterans deserve a prison sentence - not respect.  If a veteran wants respect, they should have to prove they earned it.  We need to take it on a case-by-case basis.

    Reporter:  How can you shoot women and children?
    Door Gunner:  It's easy.  I give 'em a couple seconds lead time.

    The above "joke" was a popular one in the helicopter school I was assigned to in 1969.
  • maxxmaxx 669 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: it depends

    respect for those who defend the country, yes. however that is collective.  individual people i give respect on who they are, not just because they are iin the miltary.  @JulesKorngold
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Think of what they go through.

    War Veterans went to war and risked their lives for America, they deserve our respect, they went through horrible things, take D-day for example, thousands of marines were slaughtered and torn to shreds, but they didn't give up, they fought for months not knowing when they would die and they did it for America and its people, now as for the Veterans who you say enjoyed the killing, well I would be happy to be able to kill enemies of America for a certain reason. Maybe they didn't enjoy the killing itself, but maybe it was the satisfaction of knowing that each enemy they killed meant that America was that much safer, perhaps it felt like an accomplishment, maybe it felt like they were doing the hard things so others didn't have to, and that is what they signed up for.

    I respect the Veterans who served our Country and who served us.
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Joking, really?


    Reporter:  How can you shoot women and children?
    Door Gunner:  It's easy.  I give 'em a couple seconds lead time.

    The above "joke" was a popular one in the helicopter school I was assigned to in 1969.
    I don't think this is something to joke about, soldiers don't just go and kill civilians, sometimes the civilians die do to explosions and gunfire and that is unfortunate, but most the time it isn't the soldiers fault. We need to respect our Veterans.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Not All Veterans Deserve Respect

    @MrDebatePerson2
    We need to respect our Veterans.
    With no exceptions?  Do you respect Lieutenant Calley?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: H

    Listen Jules, I think you lost my respect. Get lost.
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: you got one thing right

    JulesKorngold said: Argument Topic: Not All Veterans Deserve Respect

    You are right, not all of them deserve respect, you being one of them. tell us, why do you deserve our respect?

    Jean
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: You're Far From Persuading Me

    @MrDebatePerson2
    Get lost.
    Did you forget this is my debate?

    why do you deserve our respect?
    1. I didn't run to Canada when I got drafted in 1969
    2. I didn't murder any civilians like Lieutenant Calley
    3. I got an honorable discharge
    4. I worked on a nuclear weapons repair base defending America
    Again, why do you think Lieutenant Calley deserves anyone's respect?
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: I don't

    He doesn't deserve our respect for what he has done, but that doesn't mean none of the Veterans deserve our respect. @JulesKorngold
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: I hate to say this but, I think you are probably a fake.

    I have people pretend to be someone their not, seeing at was just Memorial Day, you could be a fake, plus you don't make sense.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: You've Outstayed Your Welcome

    @MrDebatePerson2
    you could be a fake
    Whether I am a "fake" or not has nothing to with the topic:  Should ALL veterans be respected?  You've already agreed Lieutenant Calley does not deserve respect.  Why are you still here commenting?
  • Cringe_TrainCringe_Train 218 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Sort of

    @JulesKorngold

    It's difficult to argue that veteran's actions are morally justifiable because war itself is not morally justifiable.

    But I think people who are willing to put their lives on the line to protect civilians deserve respect. Those who are just there to kill stuff don't. 

    I don't think success in the military should every be judged by how many people you kill rather, by your actions. If you go out of your way to protect civilians or help injured people on either side you deserve respect. 
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Dude, really?

    @MrDebatePerson2
    Whether I am a "fake" or not has nothing to with the topic:  Should ALL veterans be respected?  You've already agreed Lieutenant Calley does not deserve respect.  Why are you still here commenting?

    The topic isn't about Lieutenant Calley, is whether or not all Veterans deserve respect, and the answer is no, because some have done bad things.

    So why are you still debating with me, in fact, if you agree why are debating against me? @JulesKorngold
  • Keal303NXQ3Keal303NXQ3 170 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Agreed, respect is earned not given.

    @JulesKorngold

    I agree, I'm def. not sure how many veterans deserve that honor though and that's not my call.
    MrDebatePerson2
  • @JulesKorngold

    The debate argument in basic principle is over how does a Military sworn to preserve a united state of Constitution do so when confronted by a political act of daft as a means to induction to an Armed Service?
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1603 Pts   -  
    What about helicopter door gunners, snipers, and infantrymen who didn't have fun?

    Do you believe helicopter door gunners, snipers, and infantrymen would have engaged in the same kinds of activities if there had been no military, or did the military turn them into murderers having fun?
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: It is simple

    If the Veterans have done something good they deserve respect. If they have done bad they still served our country but they don't deserve our respect.
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: syllogism

    @Keal303NXQ3 All people deserve respect. Veterans are people. Therefore, all veterants deserve respect.
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: logic

    @JulesKorngold Even inmates deserve respect because they remain human beings with rights. People do not abrogaate their personhood by virtue of being found guilty of a crime.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Admiring Murderers?

    @Jean
    Sorry, I don't respect cold-blooded murderers.  Yes, they have rights as human beings  They don't get respect automatically..
    Jean
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Killing isn't always murder.

    I don't want to overlook the fact that there is a difference between killing and murder.

    But the point is, Veterans don't deserve our respect just because they are Veterans, they earn respect based on their actions. and I would like to apologize to JulesKorngold for being rude, thank you for your service to our country.
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -   edited June 2
    @ If you do not respect inmates by virtue of the fact that they are human, you open the door for abuse.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Give Them Respect

    @JulesKorngold
    I have no respect for murderers having fun.  Why should I?

    It may sound like I am saying stiff cheese here but probably it is because I am, but with reasoned justification.

    I have met a few of those yahoos, but do you know what? Put them on a battlefield and they excel, they thrive on the toughness and danger, don't fear death, and are happy to go on the frontline. They do a great job for their country, so I think that they do deserve that much respect. And hey, they get even more respect if they come home in a body bag. A win, win, situation if ever there was one.

  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -   edited June 2
    Argument Topic: The Lieutenant Calley Question

    @Swolliw
    How much respect should Lieutenant Calley get for murdering 22 civilians?

    In the movie Platoon, we have 2 sergeants.  Both are excellent in combat, but one murders civilians.  Why should he be respected at all?  The moral sergeant can do everything the immoral sergeant does without being court-martialed and taken out of combat.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    How much respect should Lieutenant Calley get for murdering 22 civilians?

    None at all. But that has nothing to do with my argument whatsoever.

    And pointing out an anomaly hardly makes the rule, does it?

  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    @Swolliw
    that has nothing to do with my argument whatsoever
    Let me rephrase your argument as I understand it.  You're saying we should tolerate a soldier who excels at killing, whether enemy soldiers or civilians.  Is that right?
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold
    You're saying we should tolerate a soldier who excels at killing, whether enemy soldiers or civilians.  Is that right?

    I said nothing of the sort nor came anywhere near saying such nonsense. You have done this (malicious misquoting) twice in a row now.

    If you wish to continue to be so arrogant and obnoxious, I'm sure that there are more appropriate websites with members of a lesser intellect who talk your sort of language.


  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: What?

    @Swolliw
    What does this mean?  Put them on a battlefield and they excel, they thrive on the toughness and danger, don't fear death, and are happy to go on the frontline. They do a great job for their country, so I think that they do deserve that much respect.  Aren't you saying "respect all soldiers"?
  • exconexcon 118 Pts   -  
    The difference between an immoral killer and a combatant is that one doesn't hurt civilians while the other one does.

    Hello K:

    Nahhh...  I was in the Navy during Vietnam..  The REASON I joined the Navy instead of the Army, was because I didn't want to look my enemy in the eye.  So, I killed 'em from afar..  Or not. 

    In Vietnam, we'd do some shore bombardment.  Then we'd have chow, and do some more shore bombardment.  Did I enjoy my lunch?  Sure.  Why not?  Should I have felt guilty?  I could have killed civilians..  I could have killed the the enemy.  Or, I could have killed nobody at all.  How would I know?   I wouldn't.  Besides, I wasn't a gunners mate.  I didn't pull the trigger.  I swabbed decks.. Do I deserve your respect because I washed floors??  It's not so simple, is it?

    Now, did I WANT to swab decks forever??  No!  I very much wanted to be a Navy pilot so I could kill LOTS of enemy.   And, I would have if given the chance. 

    So, here's what you should know..  Regardless of whether I killed anybody or not.  Regardless of what uniform I wore, when I got off the plane back in the US, I got no respect..  I got spit on.

    excon
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Listen Jules.

    So your are saying that if Veterans killed anyone they don't deserve respect? Wrong, that is why they joined the army, to kill the enemy and that was there jobs. They killed the enemies because they had to, and if they liked it? well that is not bad, after all that is what they were supposed to do, that is the reality of wars.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Reading Between the Lines

    @JulesKorngold
    Aren't you saying "respect all soldiers"?

    No, I said what I said, no more, no less. If i were to say, "respect all soldiers" then I would say "respect all soldiers"; would that be reasonable to surmise? So, if I did not say "respect all soldiers" then would it be reasonable to surmise that I did not say "respect all soldiers"? 

    So, is there anything else that you intend to read between the lines and try to make out that when I say blue, I actually said red?

  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Okeeday

    Okeeday, dha point is dat not all veterans deserve respect, because not all of them-sa have done good things, but dha did gos to war for us, so mesa would spake dat all veterans deserve our thanks but not our respect.        
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Translated:

    Ok, the point is that not all veterans deserve respect, because not all of them have done good things, but the did go to war for us, so I would say that all veterans deserve our thanks but not our respect.
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 72 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Troll Somewhere Else

    @Swolliw
    Why are you posting on this debate?  I am challenging people to persuade me that ALL military veterans should be respected.  Your incoherent babbling is not even close to doing that.
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: So What

    @JulesKorngold
     I am challenging people to persuade me that ALL military veterans should be respected. 

    So what?

    This is a public forum, and all members are free to express what they feel fit in posts within reason. If you think that you have some self-righteous mandate to dictate to others how they can and can't reply, then, think again.....that is, if you are capable of such an onerous task.

  • Keal303NXQ3Keal303NXQ3 170 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: ...

    @excon I am no combatant nor do I deserve that title but in war, killing happens, but not murder. The act of the morality of killing is contingent on the intent behind it. 
  • Keal303NXQ3Keal303NXQ3 170 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: ...

    @Jean All people deserve respect. Hitler was a person. Therefore, Hitler deserves respect.
    MrDebatePerson2
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Two wrongs do not make a right.

    @Keal303NXQ3 Hitler is dead, Keal, as you know. When he was alive and when Stalin was alive, did they deserve respect? Of course they did even if the did not respect others. Do we want to be like them? No. We are different to them.
    MrDebatePerson2
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @Keal303NXQ3
    All people deserve respect. Hitler was a person. Therefore, Hitler deserves respect.

    I think that you have made a very flawed premise (all people deserve respect) and your appalling deduction clearly explains why. Well done (not).

    Hitler did command respect during most of his reign of terror. The German people adored him, the military and his aids absolutely idolized him. But how did Hitler get so much respect from his people? Through fear and ignorance, that's how. Those closest to him lived in constant fear of either losing their jobs or their lives if they dared make a mistake or diss Hitler. 

    Hitler appointed a Minister for Propaganda (Goering) to falsely lull the people of Germany that everything was going fine, and Germany was "winning".

    I have reasonably backed up and proven the claim that not all people deserve respect.

    You made a claim to the contrary and did not have the slightest bit intellect to back up such an absurd suggestion. Just as well you showed your true colours by flippantly making such an absurdly ridiculous conclusion.

    One could very well conclude that numbskulls like you deserve absolutely no respect at all.

    Jean
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @Jean
    Hitler is dead, Keal, as you know. When he was alive and when Stalin was alive, did they deserve respect? Of course they did even if the did not respect others. Do we want to be like them? No. We are different to them.

    Well said. If you look at the post I made above, I further expanded upon your comment in not so kind words.

  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @Keal303NXQ3
     The act of the morality of killing is contingent on the intent behind it. 

    Especially if the killing was orchestrated by probably the most repulsive being that ever lived who "deserves respect". Would that be right?....Well, would it?...Is that right?

  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: disrespect

    @Swolliw Calling me a numbskull shows that you do not respect me. I suppose we have nothing more to say to each other. Good luck.
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