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How Do We Get To Go to Heaven?

Debate Information

If there were no promise of an afterlife, how many religious followers would there be compared with the current enticement of an afterlife to worship?

For example, there are many who love going to Church for the fellowship and socializing, but how many followers attend Church merely as an obligation to fulfill a condition of entering Heaven?



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  • exconexcon 118 Pts   -  

    Hello S:

    From what I understand, even if you lived a miserable life, harming everyone you come into contact with, you can still get into Heaven by confessing your sins just before the clock tolls.

    excon

    TreeManSkepticalOnePlaffelvohfen
  • OakTownAOakTownA 29 Pts   -  
    There are multiple religions without an afterlife/heaven, including Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Taoism, so it is not an incentive for those faiths. If I had to guess what kept them going, it would be tradition and the community. I'm not saying that these are necessarily good reasons to believe in something (tradition is definitely not a good reason), but that they may influence decision making.
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    If there were no promise of an afterlife, how many religious followers would there be compared with the current enticement of an afterlife to worship?

    For example, there are many who love going to Church for the fellowship and socializing, but how many followers attend Church merely as an obligation to fulfill a condition of entering Heaven?
    There are Christian denominations that don't believe in an after life until the resurrection, and they still believe in God.

    And it doesn't take attending church to be a Christian.

    Jesus puts the saved in heaven when they are saved, and we have a relationship with him forever.  

    God put the desire for eternal life in all humans.  
    TreeManPlaffelvohfen
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    @excon Forgive me but a clock doesn't toll; it chimes. It is a bell that tolls.


    TreeMan
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @excon
    From what I understand, even if you lived a miserable life, harming everyone you come into contact with, you can still get into Heaven by confessing your sins just before the clock tolls.
    Such are the double standards of Christianity.
    TreeManOakTownAPlaffelvohfen
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @OakTownA
    There are multiple religions without an afterlife/heaven, including Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Taoism, so it is not an incentive for those faiths. If I had to guess what kept them going, it would be tradition and the community. I'm not saying that these are necessarily good reasons to believe in something (tradition is definitely not a good reason), but that they may influence decision making.

    Quite right. And you could understand why many people leave the Abrahamic religions but feel that they do need faith and become Buddhists, for example. Buddhism is rising in popularity in the West since it seems to be more in line with our modern lifestyle. It doesn't make demands by threats and doesn't require a subservient relationship with a master.

    TreeManOakTownAPlaffelvohfen
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -  
    OakTownA said:
    There are multiple religions without an afterlife/heaven, including Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Taoism, so it is not an incentive for those faiths. If I had to guess what kept them going, it would be tradition and the community. I'm not saying that these are necessarily good reasons to believe in something (tradition is definitely not a good reason), but that they may influence decision making.
    I am not an expert in different religions but I think your post needs some qualifications. For example, you say that Buddism does not believe in an afterlife/heaven. I am confused about the stroke between afterlife and heaven. I always heard that Buddists did believe in reincarnation and that surely is an afterlife. As for Hinduism, most Hindus believe that humans are in a cycle of death and rebirth called samsara. When a person dies, their atman is reborn in a different body. Some believe rebirth happens directly at death, others believe that an atman may exist in other realms. 
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zhxpr82/revision/3
    In Taoism, the spirits of the dead are routinely communicated with through the assistance of spirit-mediums. This suggests to me a belief in an afterlife of some sort.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism_and_death

    Also, what have you got against tradition being a good reason for believing in something, I wonder.
  • OakTownAOakTownA 29 Pts   -  
    @Jean I would define "afterlife" as an idea where the essence of the person/soul moves on to another realm or dimension, like Heaven, Hell, etc. which is why I don't consider reincarnation an afterlife. It's more like another chance at a second (or third or fourth...) life. I will grant your point on Taoism. As for tradition, it tends to favor the people in power. If we kept all of the traditions of the past, women would still be property, LGBTQ+ rights would be nonexistent, and we'd still have slavery. I'm all for keeping traditions that enrich people's lives without causing harm, but there are too many people who try to deny rights to others in the name of tradition.
    SkepticalOnePlaffelvohfen
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    If you don't believe in Heaven, why do you talk about it like it is real?

    And what happens when we die, from your crooked view of things. :dizzy:
    Plaffelvohfen
  • ChildofGodChildofGod 4 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: How to Get to Heaven.

    Mathew 19:17 If you want to enter life obey the commandments.    
    TrueLove
  • ChildofGodChildofGod 4 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: How to get to Heaven.

    God gives us rules to follow and he does not want people who chose to continue to sin to come into his Kingdom.    So our duty to God is to seek and obey his rules. When one does, they will have a new life that follows in the truth and not in the way of the world.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • MrDebatePerson2MrDebatePerson2 184 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Ephesians 3:20-21

    We get to heaven through Jesus. we must love Him obey His commandments and believe in Him,

    When you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, you’ll be blessed abundantly, and exceedingly much. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen. ( Ephesians 3:20-21 ).
    Plaffelvohfen
  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    Mathew 19:17 If you want to enter life obey the commandments.    
    That is an excellent scripture that I have used to teach some faith alone believers, and they say that scripture says 'keep' the commandments and not 'obey' the commandments.   What are they thinking, we are to keep the commandments in a drawer somewhere or something?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • JeanJean 30 Pts   -   edited June 9
    Argument Topic: Some traditions are vital

    OakTownA said:
    @Jean I would define "afterlife" as an idea where the essence of the person/soul moves on to another realm or dimension, like Heaven, Hell, etc. which is why I don't consider reincarnation an afterlife. It's more like another chance at a second (or third or fourth...) life. I will grant your point on Taoism. As for tradition, it tends to favor the people in power. If we kept all of the traditions of the past, women would still be property, LGBTQ+ rights would be nonexistent, and we'd still have slavery. I'm all for keeping traditions that enrich people's lives without causing harm, but there are too many people who try to deny rights to others in the name of tradition.
    Nevertheless, tradition is important for unifying a people with their culture. It is a sense of belonging to a people and gives us an identity. Of coursse, as the world changes, so do our traditions. Not all tradition is bad while some need to be dropped or adapted to new circumstances. This does not involve throwing the baby out with the bath water. Movements for women's rights and human rights can be included in new traditions but it is a matter of retaining what is of value while letting go of outmoded ways of behaving. Slowly but surely what is good is retained and peoplle can keep their identity. As an example, we can consider religion in Europe. At one time, Christianity was part of our tradition. Nowadays, there is less faith in Europe but we can retain an appreciation of the beautiful hymns and liturgies while letting go of the doctrine. An atheist can remain attached to aspects of Christianity as a definition of what it means to be a European. It would be a mistake to replace it with Islam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y__y7H9Q5Q
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @ChildofGod
    So our duty to God is to seek and obey his rules.

    It is all very well to follow "God's rules" but as we are well aware, "seeking out rules" is a very generalized and broad term. For example, if we look at the book of Leviticus there is a rule prohibiting the cutting of hair on the sides and shaving. Do we see all Christians who seek and obey God's rules follow that rule? Very few, I would say. 

    There is also a rule in Leviticus prohibiting the wearing of garments made from more than one type of fabric. Do we see Christians who seek and obey God's rules wear only cotton, only wool, only polyester etc?

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @ChildofGod
    So our duty to God is to seek and obey his rules.

    It is all very well to follow "God's rules" but as we are well aware, "seeking out rules" is a very generalized and broad term. For example, if we look at the book of Leviticus there is a rule prohibiting the cutting of hair on the sides and shaving. Do we see all Christians who seek and obey God's rules follow that rule? Very few, I would say. 

    There is also a rule in Leviticus prohibiting the wearing of garments made from more than one type of fabric. Do we see Christians who seek and obey God's rules wear only cotton, only wool, only polyester etc?

    There is a New Testament.  You need to look for that.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @TrueLove
    There is a New Testament.  You need to look for that.

    I don't need to. It is in the same book as the Old Testament which is called the Bible.

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -   edited June 12
    Swolliw said:
    @TrueLove
    There is a New Testament.  You need to look for that.

    I don't need to. It is in the same book as the Old Testament which is called the Bible.

    You do really need to, or you wouldn't keep asking why people cut their hair a certain way and by mixed blend clothing.  I've explained it to you before.  Do you have trouble retaining?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -  
    @TrueLove
     I've explained it to you before.  Do you have trouble retaining?

    The Bible is the Bible and Christians are Christians and I have explained to you before that Christians love to pick cherries, whether it be denominations, a particular section of the Bible or a particular section of the Bible. For example, there are certain unsavory individuals who will gravitate towards anything to do with sexuality in the Bible and run with it like there is no tomorrow, aren't there? 

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -   edited June 12
    Swolliw said:
    @TrueLove
     I've explained it to you before.  Do you have trouble retaining?

    The Bible is the Bible and Christians are Christians and I have explained to you before that Christians love to pick cherries, whether it be denominations, a particular section of the Bible or a particular section of the Bible. For example, there are certain unsavory individuals who will gravitate towards anything to do with sexuality in the Bible and run with it like there is no tomorrow, aren't there? 

    There is an old testament and a new testament.

    Jesus came and made a new testament.

    Jesus made changes to the old testament, for instance, no more eye for eye and hand for hand, etc.  No more stoning for adultery and for working on the Sabbath.  No more three divorces and marriages.  No more circumcision of the flesh; no more dietary law, no more observance of special days, no more animal sacrifices.  No more going to a temple to be near God's Spirit, no more the people cleaning themselves to be able to go to the temple and participate in the special days.

    We have to do what the testament says to qualify as heirs and the inheritance.

    When a human makes a last will and testament, it says who the heirs are and the conditions for heirs and their inheritance.  The humans' last will and testament has to be followed exactly, as is God's.  
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
  • SwolliwSwolliw 937 Pts   -   edited June 13
    @TrueLove
    Jesus made changes to the old testament, for instance, no more eye for eye and hand for hand, etc.

    And what about changes to all the "lewd perversions" and laws on how one should use one's genitals? What changes did your caring and gentil savior do to make all men equal?

    No, don't answer that (you won't anyway), I'll do that for you. The answer is bugger-all. And, since the alleged Jesus lived two thousand years ago when civilization was primitive and barbaric, the said, professed son of God didn't actually change much at all, did he? 

    "I sayeth unto my loyal followers that from now on it will be a gay for a hetero, an undeveloped fetus for what it is according to the bearer, assisted suicide for terminal illness, an unwed mother for a married mother, a menstruating woman for a woman....."

    He didn't get around to making those amendments, did he? Such changes that all of decent, civilised society (except for ignorant bigots) accept nowadays.

  • TrueLoveTrueLove 251 Pts   -  
    Swolliw said:
    @TrueLove
    Jesus made changes to the old testament, for instance, no more eye for eye and hand for hand, etc.

    And what about changes to all the "lewd perversions" and laws on how one should use one's genitals? What changes did your caring and gentil savior do to make all men equal?

    No, don't answer that (you won't anyway), I'll do that for you. The answer is bugger-all. And, since the alleged Jesus lived two thousand years ago when civilization was primitive and barbaric, the said, professed son of God didn't actually change much at all, did he? 

    "I sayeth unto my loyal followers that from now on it will be a gay for a hetero, an undeveloped fetus for what it is according to the bearer, assisted suicide for terminal illness, an unwed mother for a married mother, a menstruating woman for a woman....."

    He didn't get around to making those amendments, did he? Such changes that all of decent, civilised society (except for ignorant bigots) accept nowadays.

    Could you tell me what scriptures you are talking about so I could explain them for you?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
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