Is eating meat necessary?

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hmmmmmmm

3 years on and for a lot of people, eating meat is still regarded as a necessary part of a nutritious diet.

Barnardot

@Areyoujoshingme ;Either way eating meat is and has always been necessary to the preservation of any given ecosystem.

That’s a pretty dum statement and pretty dum reasoning.

Humans can’t get enough meat so they breed zillions of animals to eat them so it has nothing to do with preserving the ecosystem.

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Barney.

@Barnardot


Breed Zillions 

Feed Billions


Breeding billions is perhaps not eco-friendly.

But are humans by chance, just organic blobs floundering in the quag of existence, on a tiny spec of cosmic dust somewhere in a vast universe?

jack

Areyoujoshingme said:

Is eating meat necessary?

Hello A:

For whom???  For ME - it's absolutely necessary..   I'm not in to living a life of restraint.  If it's good TO me, it's good FOR me..

excon, carnivore and unapologetic hedonist

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Areyoujoshingme ; Eating meat is healthy, delicious, sustainable.

maxx

oh but i beg to differ; meat may have specific nutrient and protein but it is far from healthy. nutritionists have proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.@RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Meat is the healthiest of foods one can consume.

7 Reasons Meat Matters for Health

For those who choose to eat meat, it offers a variety of nutritious benefits that support health and fitness.

1. Meat is nutrient dense. 

There are a few ways to evaluate nutritional density, but meat performs quite well whether it’s nutrients per calorie or nutrients per 100 gram serving. Compare a 3.5-ounce portion of grass-fed ground beef to the same weight of cooked peas or 3.5 ounces of sprouted wheat (select the 100 gram serving size portion — roughly equal to 3.5 ounces).

Most notably, meat offers slight anti-inflammatory properties and no glycemic load, which means it doesn’t have a negative effect on blood-sugar balance. The wheat and pea examples note a higher glycemic load and, particularly in the case of the wheat, a more inflammatory effect.

The meat example also has a positive balance of omega-3 fatty acids compared to omega-6 fats, making it an ideal food source to support mood, brain function, and cell-membrane health.

Additionally, the minerals contained in the meat are more bioavailable than the minerals found in the grain example, which means they are more easily absorbed than when eaten along with the phytic acid and lectins that are found in grains or legumes.

Long-time “vegan-advocates-turned-omnivores” Denise Minger, Lierre Keith, and Kristen Suzanne have recently spoken about their experiences living on the highest-quality, non-animal foods for years and why they still ended up with diminished health due to often unavoidable nutrient deficits.

2. Protein is an “obligate” nutrient — and meat is an efficient source of protein. 

“Obligate” means biologically necessary, and efficiency matters to obtain enough. In order to consume adequate protein (since we can also assimilate protein from non-animal sources), most active or aging adults need to aim for at least 1.0 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. For those aiming for optimal health and performance, the needs are higher at 1.4 to 2.0 grams per kilogram, according to the International Society of Sports Nutrition.

Just for fun, take your body weight in pounds and divide it by 2.2 — this is how many kilograms of mass you have. Now, multiply that number by 2, and you’ll have a target for how many grams of protein you may have to consume daily to perform at your best.

If a 160-pound person tried to achieve an intake target of 145 grams with only non-meat sources of protein, it would take just over 9 cups of beans per day (while also contributing almost 2,000 calories).

While it’s possibleto get adequate protein from non-animal sources, it’s not probable for many people. Without adequate protein, one cannot build and maintain lean muscle, blood cells, or hormones properly.

3. Meat may be your only non-supplement source of certain nutrients. 

Vitamins A (retinol), B12, and D, cholesterol, creatine, carnosine, and the most useful forms of omega-3s — DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) — can only be obtained in appreciable amounts from animal sources. Organ meats are the most beneficial. The lack of such nutrients over time can have devastating effects on brain function and development, bone formation, and overall health.

For example, pre-formed vitamin A (retinol) from animal sources (e.g., liver and eggs) is critical for proper development and maintenance of vision, skin, mineralization of teeth, and bone growth.

Vitamin B12, a critical nutrient for blood-cell and DNA formation, as well as energy and muscle strength, has been shown to be deficient in a large percentage of non-meat eaters who aren’t supplementing daily with this nutrient.

Many of us don’t get enough sun throughout the year to produce adequate vitamin D. In terms of food sources, vitamin D is found mostly in certain animal foods or processed foods that are fortified with it. Without adequate vitamin D, immune function, cell growth, glucose regulation, inflammation response, calcium absorption, mood, and hormone balance can drift off course.

On a related note, cholesterol is only available in animal foods; it is also the precursor that gives us the ability to synthesize our own vitamin D when we get enough sunlight. While we produce most of the cholesterol in our bodies (we only absorb about 25 percent of dietary cholesterol), eating cholesterol from animal foods (particularly fatty cuts of meat) may have advantages. These benefits include healthier sex-hormone production, better maintenance of DHEA-sulfate levels (known as an anti-aging hormone in many circles), and generally healthier cell membrane integrity.

Creatine, like cholesterol, is made in the body, but is also readily available through raw or lightly cooked animal meats and fatty fish; it is not available in any appreciable quantities from plants.

Creatine is good for more than just boosting athletic performance or reducing recovery times between bouts of high-intensity exercise: Adequate creatine stores may also support heart-failure patients’ recovery efforts and may have considerable value for those with neuromuscular disorders like muscular dystrophy or Parkinson’s.

EPA and DHA are animal sources of omega-3 fatty acids and have been shown to be superior sources for these essential nutrients compared to plant sources containing alpha-linoleic-acid (ALA).

Finally, carnosine is a potent antioxidant that is vital to protecting us against age-related wear and tear. It can only be obtained in beneficial doses from animal foods.

4. Your aging bones have much to gain from meat. 

The old and once-common recommendation to limit meat intake to avoid de-mineralization of bone is no longer considered accurate. In fact, going meatless may actually decrease bone integrity as we age.

The best available evidence supports maintaining high protein intakes from high-quality sources throughout the lifespan. Recent research notes that it may be important to increase protein intake the older we get.

5. Meat’s fat content actually supports health. 

Many benefits of consuming animal sources may actually come from the accompanying fat — yes, even the saturated kind. Saturated fats, common in meat sources, are important components of hormone precursors and synthesis. They’re actually great sources of energy for both brain and organ function and may be utilized by working muscle tissues as well.

6. Meat promotes muscle growth and maintenance. 

Modest consumption of meat — 113 grams containing about 30 grams of protein — every few hours is one of the best ways to stimulate muscle-tissue synthesis. The high biologic value of the amino acids in animal foods makes them an optimal source of essential amino acids to support muscle growth, maintenance, and repair.

7. Animal proteins are tasty and satisfying — and support positive mood and brain health.

The satiety and thermic effect of high-protein foods have been shown to support weight loss. This suggests meat-inclusive dietary protocols may offer a suitable way to achieve lasting weight-loss success.

The “A to Z Weight Loss Study” stunned even its lead researcher (a life-long vegetarian) due to the unexpected results he reviewed here. The groups following diets that included animal proteins not only had remarkable weight-loss results and improvements to several health markers, they also appeared to have some of the best long-term adherence.

Perhaps the ability to enjoy “ad lib” amounts of protein (including fat-rich animal foods) and high-fiber, low-carbohydrate vegetables, without the need to count calories, paved the way for adherence and success in the lowest carb, highest protein group.

Additional research needs to be done to verify contributing reasons behind the results. Nonetheless, it’s suggestive for those who want to lose weight, stay satisfied, and gain health.

maxx

first it would have been nice to not plagiarize a site; you gave no reference to wrote what you posted. also our bodies are not designed to eat nor digest meat; but of course you know nothing of biology. we have no actual canine teeth, we can not rip nor tear through animal hide and skin. we can not out tun our prey and use our finger nails to tear into and rip apart chunks of a live animal; nor would we gladly eat still warm chunks of animal blood, meat and skin raw. if we were designed to eat meat, we would gladly do so.  also, our digestive tracts are long and narrow, designed for plant matter, not meat. here rick, i put a live mouse in one hand and an apple in your other hand. go ahead, eat one. if we were designed to eat meat, we would grab and chew up the live mouse. we also can get all of the protein we need from a plant based diet. stick to waht you claim you know about, the bible. Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study - PMC (nih.gov) @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Eating meat makes a body strong, not soy-boy.

Meat is healthy, new evidence from science

Scritto da Susanna Bramante

28 Jan 2021

Meat is one of the most efficient foods due to its very high nutritional density, providing a high concentration of nutrients with meager calories.

Meat is one of the most significant sources of complete proteins. Studies show that animal protein intake is a reliable indicator of the mass muscle index, which is the quantity of skeletal muscle, linked to general health and reliable predictor of longevity. The more muscle mass is preserved with age, the longer the life expectancy. The study shows that people on a vegetarian diet have a lower muscle mass index than meat-eaters, resulting in a lower quantity of muscles, worse health, and shorter life expectancy.

In addition to proteins, meat also contains other nutrients that contribute to constructing a healthy and strong muscle mass, such as creatine, completely missing in plants and considered by scientists as “the most effective nutritional supplement currently available to athletes.” Creatine plays a vital role in the energy metabolism of muscle, improving endurance, strength, and muscle performance, and meat, especially red meat, is the most reliable source, revealing once again a lower level of muscle performance in people on a strictly plant-based diet.

https://www.carnisostenibili.it/en/meat-is-healthy-new-evidence-from-science/

maxx

meat raises cholesterol levels; it clogs up the arteries; causes heart problems; obesity, has more carcinogens in it  than cigarettes., can cause kidney problems, digestive issues various types of cancers; all which have been proven. Potential health hazards of eating red meat - PubMed (nih.gov)  once again, there is nothing in meat that we can not get on a plant based diet. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Cholesterol is a good thing...it's been demonized by the ignorant. The body produces cholesterol for protection of the brain and organs...some have genomic deficiencies that trigger the over-production of cholesterol and regardless of their diet, or stints or other procedures, hyper-cholesterol continues...meat is not the culprit. 

 

Why Is Cholesterol Needed by the Body?

Cholesterol is a fatty substance produced by your liver and found in certain foods. Your body needs it to produce certain hormones and tissues. But, too much may increase your risk for high blood pressure, stroke, and heart attack.

With all of the bad publicity cholesterol gets, people are often surprised to learn that it’s actually necessary for our existence.

What’s also surprising is that our bodies produce cholesterol naturally. But cholesterol is not all good, nor is it all bad — it’s a complex topic and one worth knowing more about.

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-cholesterol/why-is-cholesterol-needed

____________________________________________________

Why You Should No Longer Worry About Cholesterol in Food

Genetics appear to play a stronger role in heart disease

High levels of “bad” cholesterol in the blood, which have been linked to heart disease, are still a health concern.

But evidence shows people no longer have to be concerned about eating foods that are high in cholesterol. What’s changed is that many researchers and physicians believe that eating cholesterol-rich foods such as eggs may not affect the cholesterol that is in your blood.

“However, people with certain health problems, such as diabetes, should continue to avoid cholesterol-rich foods,” says cardiologist Steven Nissen, MD.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-you-should-no-longer-worry-about-cholesterol-in-food

maxx

there is good cholesterol and bad cholesterol; do you not understand that? i have already proved we are not designed to eat meat by showing how our bodies are not capable of hunting them down and eating them raw like all other animals due. if we were designed to eat meat, we would eat it raw without getting sick; or do you think humans are born with matches so they can catch and cook?  no knowledge of psychology, nutrition, and biology. You really need to learn something aside from your bible and the bits and snippets in information you get from the web @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; We are carnivores and that is reiterated in the Noahic Covenant...

 9 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.  Genesis 9 (ESV)

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Tricky Rickey

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Omnivores Rickey, Omnivores.

Loaves and fish.

Factfinder

Green plants ricky, omnivores. Wish you selected education over dummy indoctrination tactics? But believe what you will. I just don't have enough faith to leave reality for what you believe.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder You have abundant faith, it's just placed in the works of Satan, not Jesus.

9 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.

6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
    by man shall his blood be shed,
for God made man in his own image.

7 And you,[a] be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.”

_______________________________________

19 And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark to keep them alive with you. They shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground, according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you to keep them alive. 21 Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up. It shall serve as food for you and for them.” 22 Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him.

_______________________________________

20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse[a] the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done. 22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.”

________________________________________

1 Corinthians 10:25

25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,

_________________________________________

Deuteronomy 12:20

20 When the LORD your God has enlarged your territory as he promised you, and you crave meat and say, “I would like some meat,” then you may eat as much of it as you want.

__________________________________________

Leviticus 17:13-14

13 “ ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,

14 because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.”

____________________________________________

1 Timothy 4:1-5

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

polytheistwitch

There are vegetarians and vegans who have lived long and happy lives without consuming any animal products. 

MayCaesar

Your argument does not work out, OP. Your reason for eating meat - population control - does not logically lead to the need to eat meet, but merely to performing population control. It can be performed without people eating meet: for example, breeding of non-human predators can be encouraged, culling of animals without eating their meat can be done, and so on. Furthermore, even without humans eating herbivores, other animal predators will do so, and while humans pulling out might shift the balance some, there is no evidence to suggest that the entire ecosystem will start falling apart. It never was falling apart back when humans did not even exist, as far as we know.

maxx said:

if we were designed to eat meat, we would eat it raw without getting sick; or do you think humans are born with matches so they can catch and cook?

This argument though is even worse... Are we designed to drink water? Well, if you drink water from a random river out in the nature, you risk getting nasty parasites in your body. This is why nowadays humans boil and filter water. This is also how we came to brew tea or produce beer: in the past it was safer to drink beer in Medieval Europe than water. So, I guess, humans are designed to drink beer more than they are designer to drink water?

Fredsnephew

Argument Topic: Hey Poly.

polytheistwitch said:

There are vegetarians and vegans who have lived long and happy lives without consuming any animal products. 

No doubt true.

Though healthy vegans, and to a lesser extent vegetarians, these days benefit from global food markets and man made supplements.

And happiness is a fleeting emotion, rather than a constant state of mind relative to dietary ideology.

None of which negates the necessity for something to die so that something else can live.

It's just that somethings are fluffy and noisier than others.

maxx

We been throughthis before. Hunting is a learned behavior.  Our bodies are not made for meat. Take a good hard look atour digestive system compared to those  of actual meat eaters. Our digestive ttack is long and narrow,  to assimilate plants material.  We have no fangs or claws. We are by nature,  and bywhat we evolved from,  plant eaters. @MayCaesar

MayCaesar

@maxx

Our bodies are not "made" at all: they are evolved. We cannot digest rocks or sand, but we can digest meat. We have canine teeth evolved specifically to tear meat apart. Our of all means of obtaining food our ancestors could employ, they favored hunting as human bodies are perfectly adapted to using hunting tools and chasing animals for miles.

Western vegans have come up with a variety of ridiculous arguments to justify their veganism - but the reality is that you guys are malnourished. According to a European survey, over 90% vegans experience serious vitamin B12 deficiency, while this value is just slightly above 10% for meat eaters. Sorry, @maxx, but your diet is about as natural as the average McDonalds dweller's is. There were no vegans 10,000 years ago.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; How foolish.

maxx

i know our bodies are not made; it is simple word usage. other than that, humans adapted to eat meat. It was a learned behavior. had we evolved to eat meat we would have been born with the tools to go after, run down, tear apart live prey with our teeth and claws..@MayCaesar

MayCaesar

@maxx

Shocker for you: we adapted to do everything we do. Use the bathroom, pour water into a cup (rather than drinking it directly from a stream), type here. That is what separates humans from all other species: extreme adaptability to their environment.

It is up to you to explain how the main focus of prehistoric humans was on excelling at hunting and producing hunting tools, when hunting is somehow fundamentally unnatural to humans. Was there some worldwide totalitarian dictator 100,000 years ago that brainwashed everyone into eating meat?

maxx

hunting and producing tools is something we developed as we evolved reasoning and intelligence,  it is not a natural part of humanity.  wolves, and other predators however are born with the tools needed to live off of meat. are humans born with the capability to physically hunt for live prey? Of course not. Therefore we did not evolve to live off of meat; we evolved to be sustained on a plant based diet. also take a good look at the health issues we get from eating red meat that we do not get from a plant diet; heart problems, clogged arteries, obesity, colon cancer; digestive problems, and a host of other issues. Comprehensive Review of Red Meat Consumption and the Risk of Cancer - PMC (nih.gov)   And may, with your science back ground; of all people, i would assume you would ditch your opinion, and actually research what problems red meat does to humans. Also, there is no real evidence that meat gave us our brain size because of protein. if that were the case, nuts and legumes would have done the same; for pound per pound, they have more protein than meat does. @MayCaesar

polytheistwitch

Hindus have been vegetarian since the 14th century. It's not a new practice. And those people were able to live just fine without modern medication.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@polytheistwitch

Eight-in-ten Indians limit meat in their diets, and four-in-ten consider themselves vegetarian

All of India’s most widely practiced religions have dietary laws and traditions. For example, Hindu texts often praise vegetarianism, and Hindus may also avoid eating beef because cows are traditionally viewed as sacred. Muslim teachings, meanwhile, prohibit pork.

The vast majority of Indian adults (81%) follow some restrictions on meat in their diet, including refraining from eating certain meats, not eating meat on certain days, or both. However, most Indians do not abstain from meat altogether – only 39% of Indian adults describe themselves as “vegetarian,” according to a new Pew Research Center survey. (While there are many ways to define “vegetarian” in India, the survey left the definition up to the respondent.)

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/07/08/eight-in-ten-indians-limit-meat-in-their-diets-and-four-in-ten-consider-themselves-vegetarian/

MayCaesar

@maxx

Buddy, everything we do is a consequence of our evolution. If actions we take as a result of our evolution are not natural, then no living being's action is natural, and your definition of "naturality" becomes useless. Yes, we are "born with the capability to physically hunt for live prey": if we were not, we would not be able to physically hunt for life prey.

With my "science back ground", I look at facts, not fairy tales of some ideologues. Yes, there are some risks associated with eating red meat - just as there are some risks associated with eating or drinking anything including plain water. It does not suggests that "humans did not evolve to eat meat". Anything that humans did not evolve to do, they cannot do.

maxx

really? we are born to run down live prey? i doubt that. we are born with the ability to use our teeth and finger nails to rip apart tough animal skin, then gorge ourselves upon hot meat, skin and blood? Sure. talk about living in a fairy tale may. prove it then. how and what are we born with to capture and eat live prey/? wheere is the biological proof that meat is what we evolved to eat?@MayCaesar

MayCaesar

@maxx

We are not "born to do" anything. We are born with the capability to do certain things, and with certain needs that that capability can facilitate. We are born with the capability to hunt down animals (which all of our ancestors have done for millions of years, until a few millennia ago when farming took off), and with the need to nourish our bodies, and the former facilitates the latter.

I do not know what I should "prove" to you. Open a history book, I guess... Or do you think that all archaeologists, historians and anthropologists that study ancient human history are lying to you? Go buy chicken, grill it and eat it. I am not sure what else you need to understand that you can digest meat.

Factfinder

maxx said:

i know our bodies are not made; it is simple word usage. other than that, humans adapted to eat meat. It was a learned behavior. had we evolved to eat meat we would have been born with the tools to go after, run down, tear apart live prey with our teeth and claws..@MayCaesar

How do you know that's the standard for whether or not we evolved to eat meat? What if the tool that evolved was our brains and that turned out to be the best tool of all since we now hunt better than any other creature? and even evolved enough to raise our own meat. In general that is. You know a lion cub isn't born "able to hunt and eat live prey" either but does that mean they didn't evolve to do so? They learn from the mama lion how to hunt and kill prey for food. So by your logic lions didn't evolve to eat meat either. Though I wouldn't count on that should you come face to face with a hungry lion.

Joeseph

@maxx


We re- act to the environments we were born into and adapt accordingly,  the reasons for meat eating regarding our ancestors are well documented do you not think the topic worthy of doing a bit of research as no one here has expertise on the subject yet many others do as a Google search will demonstrate,

maxx

i am not saying you can not digest it; i am saying our digestive system did not evolve to eat meat. Take a look at oh i dont know, wolves. they eat meat all of the time and suffer none of the conditions humans do because of it. @MayCaesar

maxx

the science shows due to case studies and documentation, that eating meat causes many health problems in humans; health issues that actual meat eaters such as lions or wolves do not suffer from. we also do not get these health issues on a plant based diet; which clearly shows we evolved to be sustained on such a diet. Yes there are some benefits to eating meat, mainly more bulk and muscle, but we can get the same benefits on a plant based diet with out the health problems. @Joeseph

Joeseph

@maxx


The science shows due to case studies and documentation, that eating meat causes many health problems in humans; health issues that actual meat eaters such as lions or wolves do not suffer from


Nonsense , " The science shows" What do you mean " The science "? You really mean your preffered source states right?


. we also do not get these health issues on a plant based diet; which clearly shows we evolved to be sustained on such a diet.

Stop spouting nonsense and read an actual book on Environmental Evolution.


Yes there are some benefits to eating meat, mainly more bulk and muscle, but we can get the same benefits on a plant based diet with out the health problems. 

I suggest you read health problems associated with vegetarians and ask yourself why vegetarians need to top up with off the shelf vitamin products?

Every time a debate topic comes up you go off on your usual new age clap trap which you can never back up, sad.

maxx

really dee? no health issues from eating red meat? you want proof? a high quality link that you will simply ignore because it goes against your beliefs? way to go ricky. Meat consumption, health, and the environment (science.org)      Awareness of and reactions to health and environmental harms of red meat among parents in the United States - PMC (nih.gov)     What Are the Negative Health Effects of Eating Meat? (news-medical.net)     WHO-EURO-2021-4007-43766-61591-eng.pdf  @Joeseph

Joeseph

@maxx

ARGUMENT TOPIC : MAXX FORGOT TO READ WHAT HIS OWN SOURCE SAID .........AS USUAL I WILL LET MAXXS OWN SOURCE BEAT HIS OWN ARGUMENTS.......


Meat can be an important source of nutrients for people on low incomes with restricted diets, but there is also evidence that high meat consumption may increase the risk for some types of chronic disease

So your own source recognises how important a source meat is for nutrients,  we all know high consumption of anything carries risks 

maxx

sure but there are no nutrients in meat we can not get from a healthy plant based diet; with out the health issues. @Joeseph

Joeseph

@maxx


sure but there are no nutrients in meat we can not get from a healthy plant based diet;

sure but there are no nutrients in  plants  we can not get from a healthy meat  based diet; with out the health issues. 

maxx

and what health issues are there with a plant based diet? I have already shown the science on the health issues of meat; but now you made the opposite statement; so let me see what health problems you mean. also, aside from the nutrients in meat ; which can be gotten from plants; just what benefits are there with meat? @Joeseph

Joeseph

@maxx


Your own article agreed with the excellence of meat for nutrients your vegetarian diet studies ehave found that vegan diets can be deficient in other micronutrients, including vitamin D, iodine, selenium, riboflavin and vitamin B12. The latter can be particularly problematic, since it does not occur in plants, therefore vegans must rely on taking vitamin B12 supplements to acquire enough.

You keep asking what benefits there are in meat after agreeing with the excellence of meat for nutririents , at least try and keep up by paying attention to what you're saying.

maxx

you can get b12 in certain veggies as well as eggs. b 12 is formed by bacteria in the soil and the only reason it is not prevalent is because people wash off the dirt from the veggies before eating them. so there is plenty of ways to get all of the nutrients from a plant based diet even if one has to take a b12 supplement, and NOT have the health problems associated with meat. vitamin d is needed very little, and a few minutes in the sun a day provides plenty an adult needs.  all greens such as kale, cabbage, and others also contain iodine. the same with selenium. @Joeseph

MayCaesar

maxx said:

i am not saying you can not digest it; i am saying our digestive system did not evolve to eat meat. Take a look at oh i dont know, wolves. they eat meat all of the time and suffer none of the conditions humans do because of it. @MayCaesar

What does it mean? You can digest it, but your digestive system did not evolve to digest it? Sounds like nonsense.

You think wolves never suffer any health conditions due to eating meat? Buuuuuuddy... Read up on the red wolf IBD studies.

maxx said:

I have already shown the science on the health issues of meat;

You have yet to show a study on any food product that concludes that there are absolutely no health issues associated with it. You single out meat because your ideology requires it. There is nothing scientific about your arguments.

I can make a similar argument that water is terrible for humans. Ever heard of water poisoning? Well, I guess, we should all stop drinking water as our gut has not evolved to process it. Time to switch to.. drinking vacuum, I guess?

maxx

may you need to lay off the wine. yes i know one can overdose on anything including water; however i am not talking about overdosing on meat. and yes i do agree that wolves do not suffer from obesity, clogged arteries,, stroke, colon cancer, diabetes and other problems humans have from eating meat. let me reverse this; aside from the nutrients that we get from meat, which is just as easy to get from a plant based diet, what benefits do we get from eating meat? just the taste/ ? You are arguing into the wind at this point. yes we can digest meat, but that doesnt mean it dose not cause digestive problems. We can also digest chalk, glue, alcohol, and many other things as well. do you think we evolved to ingest alcohol simply because we can digest it?/@MayCaesar

Joeseph

@maxx

What are you ranting about your own papers say meat is fine for ones health , if you want to convert me to vegetarianism forget it .....enjoy your lentil bake dinner and glass of dandelion wine ....

all4actt

@maxx

Some of your arguments are ridiculous.

Man has eaten meat since the beginning.

We do have canine teeth. Just ask your dentist.  No they are no longer made to rip through flesh like an animal but yet we still manage to eat meat.

Animals do help the environment, even ranched ones.

Did you know that a lot of cattle ranchers have huge land leases on BLM forestery land.  The reason the BLM gives these land leases is b/c the cattle trample the forest bedding which helps in fire abatement, and their cow patties not only decompose the forest bedding but turn it into a healthy fertilizer thar helps the mature trees grow better.

Then there is hunting.  This is a practice used since the time of cave men.  Although we do not have the speed, claws or wieght of a wild animal.  What we do have is a brain and tools that we have always used to hunt with.

With the help of fish and game hunters no aid in keeping the population growth of animals in check.  Without this certain areas would have an over population problem.  Over population can lead to disease and famine for the wild animals.  

We have seen the problems with the protected predators when an over population of animals like with Mountain Lions and Wolves.  The population explosions that  ends up happening leads to a lack of food and territory. They then start moving into spaces where people live turning to people, livestock and pets as a food source.  That is why fish and game will occasionally issue hunting permits for these animals b/c once again population control is a necessity.

MayCaesar

maxx said:

may you need to lay off the wine. yes i know one can overdose on anything including water; however i am not talking about overdosing on meat. and yes i do agree that wolves do not suffer from obesity, clogged arteries,, stroke, colon cancer, diabetes and other problems humans have from eating meat. let me reverse this; aside from the nutrients that we get from meat, which is just as easy to get from a plant based diet, what benefits do we get from eating meat? just the taste/ ? You are arguing into the wind at this point. yes we can digest meat, but that doesnt mean it dose not cause digestive problems. We can also digest chalk, glue, alcohol, and many other things as well. do you think we evolved to ingest alcohol simply because we can digest it?/@MayCaesar

Interesting. I eat meat, and I do not suffer from obesity, clogged arteries, stroke, colon cancer... I guess other humans have not evolved to eat meat, but I have?

As for the reason there are no obese wolves - it is the same reason there were no obese humans 20,000 years ago: food was scarce. Calories are calories. There is no difference in terms of weight gain between consuming 2,000 calories worth of red meat, and 2,000 calories worth of cabbage.

Put a wolf into an environment where well-preserved red meat lays under every tree - and it will likely die of overeating within days.

maxx

thye are not true canine teeth. ask a biologist. we never could rip and tear our way through animal hide and skin; either with our teeth or our finger nails. hunting is a learned behavior, not part of a natural behavior of humans. We evolved from early primates and we still carry the patterns and Char eristics of how they live. That means a plant based diet. @all4actt

maxx

sure you as of now do not suffer from certain health problems. you can pit bad fuel into a vehicle and it will still operate; however that does not mean it does not cause problems. most of the problems occur at the cellular level in which you are not aware of. and no calories are not just calories; there is both good and bad calories. Wolves do not suffer from health issues because their bodies evolved to eat meat. Take a good look around you may. look at all the overweight people, those with diabetes and heart problems. do you really think meat is not the culprit in the majority of the cases? do you really think people would be obese on a vegan diet? It is not belly fat either may; it is mostly food rotting in the lower intestine; food it can not properly digest. @MayCaesar

MayCaesar

@maxx

1 calorie is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Kelvin. There are no "good calories" or "bad calories".

Wolves do suffer from health issues, as I pointed earlier. They do not suffer from one particular issue - obesity - which humans did not suffer until food became abundant either; food has never become abundant for wolves.

Funny you asked the last question: the only open vegan I knew at my previous university was extremely obese. She lost a lot of weight when she started running and going to a gym... which came with - you guessed it - meat cravings, which she happily satisfied.

Perhaps you guys being vegans has something to do with your terrible reasoning. The brain, perhaps, does not work very well on a lousy diet.