OK, Let's try and get this down and debated properly without any ridiculous sidetracks in order to snake one's way out of gist of the topic.
* A man who walks into your barbershop wearing long hair and unshaven.
As a Christian hairdresser, would you groom the man? (Leviticus 19:27 Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.)
* A guy covered in tattoos walks into your bar.
As a Christian bar-owner, would you serve him a drink? (Leviticus 19:28 Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves.)
* A man walks into your tailor shop. As a Christian tailor, would you make him a suit if the man asked for the fabric to be of a wool/polyester blend? (Leviticus 19:19 Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.)
* As a Christian wheat farmer would you harvest your entire field?
Leviticus 19:9 When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field)
* As a Christian candlestick maker, a man walks into your shop with an obvious gait and bent wrists. Speaking in a high voice with a lisp, he asks if you could make him a candle tapered at both ends. (Leviticus 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman.)
Would you provide him with such a product?
Debra AI Prediction
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@Swolliw
Which Christians?
The LGBTQ etc ones or the straight ones that dream about unconventional sex?
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Geez, do you always jump to conclusions? That's a huge jump in logic. It might be right, but it could just as easily be wrong.
First, the Christian is under the new covenant and not the old covenant, and is not obligated to keep any of the ceremonial laws which you mention.
Second - various quick observations
Laws about hair length, mixed materials in clothing, or even eating shrimp - were to remind the Jewish people that they were to be set apart from the surrounding tribes and nations. It wasn't because they hated polyester personally. The purpose of the laws was always to remind Israel to be separate from anything that was less than perfect. Shrimp was not to be eaten because the ideal creature from the sea had scales in the minds of Jews and shrimp did not have scales, so it was a deviation from what was considered 'perfect'. It was therefore not 'perfect'. The rule reminded the people to strive for moral perfection and not compromise. It wasn't because they believed shrimp were poisonous - it was a symbolic rule that reminded Israel of its special relationship with God and the need to not become like the polytheistic nations around them.
The 'tattoos' mentioned in the old testament have no connection to tattoos today. Then, surrounding tribes and nations would carve symbols in their bodies that represented that they had devoted themselves to the gods the symbols represented. It wasn't similar to either the process or meaning of tattoos today.
Third, the New Testament condemns same sex relationships - that's why Christians point out God says they are wrong:
- Romans 1:26-27
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
- 1 Timothy 1:9-10
- Jude 1:7
As 1 Corinthians points out, people who practiced homosexuality were not killed by Christians, in fact, some repented and became active members of the Corinthian church."For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error."
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
"...understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine."
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."
Same sex relationships were not considered as worse sins than other sexual sins, and are listed beside sins like disobeying parents. So while some Christians have treated homosexuality as some kind of special sin, the New Testament does not treat it as a special sin, just a sin, like any other.
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@Factfinder @Joeseph ; @21CenturyIconoclast ; @Polytheistwitch ; @Fredsnephew ; @MayCaesar; @JulesKorngold; @Maxx
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First, the Christian is under the new covenant and not the old covenant, and is not obligated to keep any of the ceremonial laws which you mentionnot
YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE IS ASTONISHING
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished
GODS INSTRUCTIONS ARE TO STONE HOMOSEXUALS TO DEATH.
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For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished
And Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament covenant. He was the perfect one spoke of. The Old Testament even predicted a new covenant.
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. - Jeremiah 33:31-33
GODS INSTRUCTIONS ARE TO STONE HOMOSEXUALS TO DEATH.
Yes all sexual sins carried the maximum penalty in the Old Covenant of death. However, any violation of the law, other than murder, could be given a lesser sentence. From Jules AI:
Why did you seek to mislead? Are you trying to become the next @FactFinder? If so, let me hear your best Yosemite Sam voice and say:
"Them eye witnesses, doctor's reports, and medical records, and peer reviewed journals, thems ain't evidence cause I said thems ain't evidence!!!!! Dagnabbit!!! I says that ain't no evidence!"
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@RickeyHoltsclaw
Is an OSISI really going to bothered about how humans achieve recreational sexual satisfaction.
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That would mean the gay ones.
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Why are you lying for god?
Why are you totally unaware of the contents of the bible?
Also Why does it not bother you that your so called loving gods morality seems to change from the old testament to the new?
Specifically, the Old Testament says the messiah will:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
So do you want to try again ?
You lose yet again.....ZING
REGARDS PEER REVIEWED JOURNALS YOU HAVE NOT EVEN ONE FOR TO SUPPORT YOUR TALL TALES......
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Why did you seek to mislead? Are you trying to become the next @FactFinder?
As you intentionally try to mislead another member, classic. Weird how you can't get me out of your head. It's like I tell the truth, it resonates and then you feel stoopid cause you know deep down you believe in fairytales. Your myth says Jesus fulfills the law and prophets, it doesn't say you are absolved from advocating and believing in them however; so why would you lie and mislead?
If your fairytale elf book says... "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them." Leviticus 20:13
And it also says...
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Then you are to advocate for the execution of gays. Claiming Jesus lets you off the hook cause he also says love god and your neighbor are the greatest of commandments doesn't negate what you are to believe in and advocate for according to your unchanging god in your fairytale elf book.
I just don't have enough faith to be a theist.
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Seems that you , I and May really get to this guy , he seems to be in a constant petulant sulk even with AI fighting his corner
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Israel was reformed as a country in 1948 fulfilling Isaiah 43:5-6 -
Fear not, for I am with you;
I will bring your offspring from the east,
and from the west I will gather you.
6 I will say to the north, Give up,
and to the south, Do not withhold;
bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the end of the earth
Ezekiel 37:26-28 - does not specifically state the building of a temple, rather a sanctuary .
I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land[a] and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.
Whether this has been fulfilled or not is debated. Some see this as a prophecy about Jesus establishing a new covenant, and being a mediator between God and man - allowing us access to God's throne. Other's think it is a future event.
REGARDS PEER REVIEWED JOURNALS YOU HAVE NOT EVEN ONE FOR TO SUPPORT YOUR TALL TALES......
Actually, I mentioned multiple examples already. Did you look at the list I gave you in the faith of the atheist debate? Again:
Blind woman gets eyesight back
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550830720300926?via=ihub
Miracles in medicine: A narrative inquiry exploring extraordinary events in pediatrics
The Miraculous Cure of a Sarcoma of the Pelvis: Cure of Vittorio Micheli at Lourdes
All 3 links had been shared above. I must assume you didn't look at any of them.
Geez, once again you whipped out what you thought was a big argument, and then it turned out there was nothing there again. Too bad there isn't something you can take to enlarge microscopic, shriveled, and left leaning debate arguments.
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ARGUMENT TOPIC : JUST LYING STILL OBSESSING ABOUT MALE SIZES, DONT WORRY BUDDY SOME DAY YOUR PRINCE WILL COME.......
Hey thanks for providing Bible verse links. It seems the verses you mention deal with promises regarding either the end times or have been fulfilled already:
Actually, I mentioned multiple examples already........
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The topic is about 'do Christians treat gays impartially'. Once again you have veered far from the topic. I get it. Your strategy is when you know your argument isn't impressing, change the topic.
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The topic is about 'do Christians treat gays impartially'
I addressed that its all in the Bile in your gods words as in....... stone them to death ....argument done and dusted ....next
.
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Well, it is true God hates sin. But it is also true that He forgives those who repent.
Why should someone repent for being gay? So you agree with stoning as punishment I take it?
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"Sin" just seems like on of those words invented to manipulate the minds of the religious and has no purpose in reality.
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You follow someone's laws, whether a group's or your own. You just don't recognize God or His laws. But make no mistake, you are subject to laws.
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The Bible very succinctly defines the basis for all laws as follow:
James 2:8: “If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well.”
Matthew 7:12: “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them: this is the law.”
Matthew 22:36-40: (36) “Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? (37) Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind [See. Exodus 20:3-11]. (38) This is the first and great commandment. (39)And the second is like unto it, Though shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (40) On these two commandments hang all law…”
The second commandment above to love our neighbor derives from the last six commandments found in Exodus 20:12-17, which describe for us HOW to love our neighbor:
12 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor is female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.
The government’s moral authority to pass laws therefore derive directly and exclusively from the above and from the Bible:protecting and loving our neighbor from harm.God told us above how to love our neighbor in no uncertain terms.Any violation of these commandments is considered “sin” in a Christian sense.Likewise, in the context of human government, the foundation of all criminal laws and the existence of the District Attorney is a fulfillment of the second of the two great commandments to love our neighbor by keeping us from hurting each other.Anything that violates these six commandments in most good human governments is considered a crime.
Now lets apply what we have learned in a practical sense. How can we know whether man’s law conflicts with God’s law and what should we do if it does?As we clearly explained earlier in section 1.9.6, when man’s law conflicts with God’s law, then God’s law MUST prevail. This is a logical consequence of both Natural Law, which we describe later in section 3.4 and Natural Order, which we describe later in section 4.1. Below are some questions you should ask yourself based on this section, to determine whether man’s law conflicts with God’s law:
If the answer to any of the above questions is YES, then you shouldn’t follow the law and should do everything you can to defeat, eliminate, and undermine that law. Here are just a few examples of how to effectively resist and undermine and protest an unjust law:
We can’t put it any simpler than that.https://famguardian.org/Subjects/LawAndGovt/ChurchVState/BiblicalLaw.htm
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They pretend they are following their gods laws yet totally ignore most of what he says , I wonder if Just Lying has given up all his worldly wealth to follow god ?
Maybe he's waiting on Rickey to get the ball rolling, or most likely will use the usual " the Hebrew translation actually means gather asmuch wealth as you can "
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It isn't money that is evil. It is a tool. It is one's love and obsession with it. I've met poor people in Appalachia who were every bit as in love with money as some rich men. I know some very wealthy people who are some of the most compassionate people you could meet.
There were a lot of rich followers of God in the Bible - Abraham, Isaac, Israel, Joseph, David, Solomon, Zacchaeus, Joseph of Arimathea, Nicodemus, and Barnabas. Hard to say you can't be rich and a follower of God when so many have done just that.
Again, I observe the foolish notion you both have communicated - you both think that the ruler of the Universe, God, should not make the rules. Or at least His rules should be like yours. Talk about being pompous and presumptuous. If God is God, then He gets to be God and make the rules. If God says having sex with children or animals is a sin, you would probably be OK with that rule because it fits your personal thoughts (maybe not so much @Barnardot though, there might be something weird happening between him and his chickens). It is when God says something that you don't agree with that you claim He has no right to make the rules. If God says sex outside of a marriage between a man and woman is wrong, you may argue that its OK for 2 consenting adults to do what they want to, they don't need to get married first, or they can be the same sex. And from societies values that might make sense. But, again, if there is a ruler of the universe, He makes the rules. The real problem you both have, is that you are mad that you aren't God, but mistakenly think you know better than Him.
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Again, I observe the foolish notion you both have communicated - you both think that the ruler of the Universe, God, should not make the rules. Or at least His rules should be like yours. Talk about being pompous and presumptuous.
You must be going for the 'foot in mouth' award. You think people are subject to your childish fantasy while complaining that smart people who reject it are pompous simply for not bending a knee to your elf god. All the while you pretend you have authority and get to make up the rules as you go. What a....
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Hard to say you can't be rich and a follower of God when so many have done just that.
It's not hard at all if one is meant to be a true followers of christ as he's quiet clear on the topic.
Again, I observe the foolish notion you both have communicated - you both think that the ruler of the Universe, God, should not make the rules.
I never said that I don't believe in god you do,I pointed out how christians like you do think god the ruler of the Universe yet totally ignore most of what he says.
Or at least His rules should be like yours. Talk about being pompous and presumptuous. If God is God, then He gets to be God and make the rules. If God says having sex with children or animals is a sin, you would probably be OK with that rule because it fits your personal thoughts (maybe not so much @Barnardot though, there might be something weird happening between him and his chickens). It is when God says something that you don't agree with that you claim He has no right to make the rules.
Again you have it totally wrong I've never made that argument in fact I've said before Muslims that follow the book as written as in those in the Caliphate even though I detest what they stand for at least they are consistent with the book as written same as the Westboro Baptists who attempt to follow what the bible actually says no matter how unpalatable, you pick and choose which parts to reject and accept.
If God says sex outside of a marriage between a man and woman is wrong, you may argue that its OK for 2 consenting adults to do what they want to, they don't need to get married first, or they can be the same sex. And from societies values that might make sense. But, again, if there is a ruler of the universe, He makes the rules. The real problem you both have, is that you are mad that you aren't God, but mistakenly think you know better than Him.
Again totally incorrect I don't want to be a god moral questions do not require a god to resolve and yes I do know better than your god as I disapprove of slavery , stoning of homosexual and beating of kids etc, etc you on the other do not know unless you consult a god?
Also despite me asking countless times neither you or Rickets can ever give a list of examples of these unchanging moral dictates that god decrees are made for all men.
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Yes I do your god is extremely immoral and st-pid
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Yet Satan killed only 10 people because god told him to, god wiped out the whole world population because he was in a rage ......so tell us all why you worship him? ZING
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So god wiped out mankind because of me and my deceased father ..... you do know your insane by any standard right?
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The only reason I'm straying off topic is because of constant irrational claims made by you and your buddy.
Satan is still not my father as I don't believe in it or your god.
I never claimed god hadn't a right to do so if it existed , my broader point is christians have no moral compass as they claim gods decision to wipe out mankind at the flood was morally good and god is all good yet Satan is evil yet the only people he wiped out were Jobs family because god goaded him into doing so, yet Satan is the bad guy so say christians proving their morality is arbitrary and based on God's whims.
This is how I know watching a child being raped and doing nothing ( when i can ) would be despicable behaviour you and Rickets think it morally perfect once god is the one ignoring the pleas of the child that's makes one of us an uncaring monster and it ain't me.
Your inability to correctly state an opponent's actual position seems to be an ongoing challenge for you.
So again you're attacking arguments I'm not making.
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The only reason I'm straying off topic is because of constant irrational claims made by you and your buddy.
Nah, you don't need a reason to go off script.
Satan is still not my father as I don't believe in it or your god.
Hey today would have been my dad's birthday. I love my dad and would never deny that he existed like you are yours. One day I'll be able to spend eternity with my dad, and so will you.
I never claimed god hadn't a right to do so if it existed , my broader point is christians have no moral compass as they claim gods decision to wipe out mankind at the flood was morally god and god is all good yet Satan is evil yet the only people he wiped out was Jobs family because god goaded him into doing so,yet Satan is the bad guy so say christians proving their morality is arbitrary and based on God's whims.
Your dad, Satan, is a tool. The Bible always points back to God as the one responsible. In the story of Job, the tool has to get God's permission to try Job. So ultimately, whether something good or bad happens to you, God either directly did it or permitted it. In the case of the flood, most were punished for their wickedness. Those who died who were either to young to be responsible for their conduct or who were 'good', were not cheated as their reward is eternity in heaven. Nowhere does God promise anyone that they will not die. He doesn't promise a person a single day.
Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” - James 4:13-15
Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring. - Proverbs 27:1
This is how I know watching a child being raped and doing nothing ( when i can ) would be despicable behaviour you and Rickets think it morally perfect one god is the one ignoring the pleas of the god , that's makes one of us an uncaring monster and it ain't me.
God will ultimately punish every sin. You believe in world where rapists sometimes get away with it. I do not. Your's is the unjust world. You believe God promised that no bad things will happen. He has not made that promise.
Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all. - Ecclesiastes 9:11
I have told you this so that you will have peace by being united to me. The world will make you suffer. But be brave! I have defeated the world! - John 16:33
Your inability to correctly state an opponent's actual position seems to be an ongoing challenge for you.
What irritates you is that I accurately state the size of your argument. You want to pretend it is bigger than it is. You want to make assertions and then run away from them when they shrink to nothing.
So again you're attacking arguments I'm not making.
Well at least we both believe there is nothing to your argument. On that much we can agree.
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You will still be notified if you're tagged or we post on your threads so you will still know I just don't have the faith to believe in your fairytale as I prefer adult reality over childhood fantasy. No, insult, just keeping it real.
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I get it. I don't blame you. You have to evaluate the cost of engaging. I'm preparing a loaded questions apologetic class for my church. The interactions have been helpful, but I have no inclination that reason could persuade some on the site.
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Nah, you don't need a reason to go off script.
Yeah , I actually do.
Satan is still not my father as I don't believe in it or your god.
Hey today would have been my dad's birthday. I love my dad and would never deny that he existed like you are yours. One day I'll be able to spend eternity with my dad, and so will you.
I never denied my dad existed , wow! You just constantly lie. But you just said I denied my dad existed make your mind up.
I never claimed god hadn't a right to do so if it existed , my broader point is christians have no moral compass as they claim gods decision to wipe out mankind at the flood was morally god and god is all good yet Satan is evil yet the only people he wiped out was Jobs family because god goaded him into doing so,yet Satan is the bad guy so say christians proving their morality is arbitrary and based on God's whims.
Your dad, Satan, is a tool.
I still don't believe in Satan you do you worship him.
The Bible always points back to God as the one responsible.
Yet you always deny it.
In the story of Job, the tool has to get God's permission to try Job. So ultimately, whether something good or bad happens to you, God either directly did it or permitted it
Your swerving and dodging is hilarious.
. In the case of the flood, most were punished for their wickedness
Right got ya , infants were wicked and unborn infants were wicked and deserved to be punished.....seriously?
Also god knew this yet created them to destroy them , while you and Rickey cannot explain God's other level stupidity.
. Those who died who were either to young to be responsible for their conduct or who were 'good', were not cheated as their reward is eternity in heaven.
Right so create them knowing this just to slaughter them , you and Rickey still cannot answer why, do you want to at least try?
Nowhere does God promise anyone that they will not die. He doesn't promise a person a single day.
Never said otherwise , so you're back to arguments I'm not making.
Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” - James 4:13-15
Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring. - Proverbs 27:1
What are you babbling about?
God will ultimately punish every sin
Wrong again, God forgives all sin once one repents so that same rapist could gain heaven yet the unfortunate could go to hell for cursing god for forgiving him. You really need to read a bible your ignorance is astonishing.
. You believe in world where rapists sometimes get away with it.
That's called facing reality, you belive in a fantasy where a rapist can be forgiven by your god and the victim punished for cursing god for not punishing him.
I do not. Your's is the unjust world.
The actual world is unjust so is your fantasy world as Hitler could be sitting at the right hand of the lord according to your delusions as impacted to you through the book you know little about the Bile
You believe God promised that no bad things will happen. He has not made that promise.
No I never said that. I know.
Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all. - Ecclesiastes 9:11
More babble.
I have told you this so that you will have peace by being united to me. The world will make you suffer. But be brave! I have defeated the world! - John 16:33
Indeed but in the mean time he watches kids being raped and does nothing and you his servant this is an act o the most loving morality.
What irritates you is that I accurately state the size of your argument.
Which is why you fled the last debate after losing 6 to nil , not 1 out of the 6 questions could you even attempt an answer on.
You want to pretend it is bigger than it is.
AHH you're back to talking about your miniscule manhood.
You want to make assertions and then run away from them when they shrink to nothing.
Don't worry you may find your prince yet and pretend to be a girlie when your " manhood " cannot match up ......or maybe pray on it?
Well at least we both believe there is nothing to your argument
Which is why I always whip you easily using your own arguments against you like above where as usual you will not have anything to counter your complete annihilation , don't stress it your ex buddy Rickets couldn't either .......NEXT ......
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