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Should Critical Race Theory (CRT) Be Taught In Schools In America?

Debate Information

First, it’s important to note that CRT isn’t really one theory, but rather is a collection of different ideas that challenge a wide swath of intellectual and political traditions. The common thread is that they all agree that race is one of the important factors in creating and maintaining inequalities in society.

Now, CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, CRT states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race.  CRT proceeds from a number of assumptions: that racism is the fundamental organizing principle of society and that it was created by white people to be imposed upon people of color so that they could disenfranchise minorities and control them through a kind of soft power.  It acknowledges that the legacy of slavery, segregation, and the imposition of second-class citizenship on Black Americans and other people of color continue to permeate the social fabric of America.

Opponents of CRT come in many forms.  "As a black college student, I'm certainly not paying to sit in a classroom and be told that I'm a helpless victim — that regardless of how hard I try, or how hard I work, it'll never be enough because racism will always win," writes CJ Pierson, a conservative activist at the University of Alabama.  Critics say CRT is not a theory in any scientific sense, as it offers no criteria by which it might be falsified as a scientific theory should.

So what do you think?  Is CRT education or indoctrination?
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  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    From what I’ve read about it I would pull my kids from a school that taught this bunk doing some research I came across this piece of nonsensical claptrap from one of its proponents …..


    How the concepts translate into a public-school curriculum and teacher training have become the flashpoint of the CRT controversy.

    An elementary school in Cupertino, California, for instance, asked third-graders to label their own power and privilege in an "identity map". At least 30 schools recommended that students should read Not My Idea, a children's book that called racism "a white person's problem and we are all caught up in it".

    Its author, Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it" and is not shy about labelling her discussions on race as "CRT".

    Instances like these have led to what has become an increasingly intense criticism.


    Pure and utter nonsense and this women’s statements are in fact racist as she st-upidly and lazily is making several sweeping generalistions that she applies to all whites similar examples of this are the norm regards CRT 


    The whole CRT thing has become a money making cottage industry and it’s whole tone is regressive and divisive

    Blastcat
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: Some people don't like that black lives matter

    Dee said:
    From what I’ve read about it I would pull my kids from a school that taught this bunk doing some research I came across this piece of nonsensical claptrap from one of its proponents …..


    How the concepts translate into a public-school curriculum and teacher training have become the flashpoint of the CRT controversy.

    An elementary school in Cupertino, California, for instance, asked third-graders to label their own power and privilege in an "identity map". At least 30 schools recommended that students should read Not My Idea, a children's book that called racism "a white person's problem and we are all caught up in it".

    Its author, Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it" and is not shy about labelling her discussions on race as "CRT".

    Instances like these have led to what has become an increasingly intense criticism.


    Pure and utter nonsense and this women’s statements are in fact racist as she st-upidly and lazily is making several sweeping generalistions that she applies to all whites similar examples of this are the norm regards CRT 


    The whole CRT thing has become a money making cottage industry and it’s whole tone is regressive and divisive


    Critical race theory is an academic concept that is more than 40 years old. The core idea is that race is a social construct, and that racism is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.

    The basic tenets of critical race theory, or CRT, emerged out of a framework for legal analysis in the late 1970s and early 1980s created by legal scholars Derrick Bell, Kimberlé Crenshaw, and Richard Delgado, among others.

    A good example is when, in the 1930s, government officials literally drew lines around areas deemed poor financial risks, often explicitly due to the racial composition of inhabitants. Banks subsequently refused to offer mortgages to Black people in those areas.

    Some people don't like that black lives matter. So they will on anything that they imagine takes away their white privilege, and use "from what I've heard" as their only evidence, which is pure and utter hateful, racist nonsense.


    OakTownA
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Blastcat

    Argument topic : Blathermouth invents another strawman argument and attempts to play the race card …..again 

    You’ve copy and and pasted a piece regards CRT I’m well aware of the history behind this movement , you never even heard of CRT until this debate was posted up and the first thing you do is offer up an opinion piece that’s not yours 


    Some people don't like that black lives matter. 

    How do the the black lives of the starving millions of blacks in famine ridden African countries matter to you? 

    How do the black lives matter of the blacks in American ghettos matter to you ? How are you helping those blacks you claim are being abused? 

    You were asked this before and couldn’t answer why’s that ? I note 5 different people have asked you questions in the last week and you fled why’s that ? ( watch him flee) 

    So they will on anything that they imagine takes away their white privilege

    Demonstrate white privilege is rampant in the US? How have I got white privilege in my country?

    , and use "from what I've heard" as their only evidence,

     “From. what I’ve heard “ ,is based on research which I mentioned you raging m-oron ,  you have funnily enough brought zero evidence to back your nonsense as usual 

    which is pure and utter hateful, racist nonsense.

    The only racist here is you as you clearly stated 2 weeks ago Jews got their just desserts in the Holocaust a pretty vile statement which should have got you banned 

    I note as usual you did not address even one point I made because as usual you can only copy and past others opinions and wail about your hurt feelings all because you only want people to agree with yet another of your emotional arguments 


    Here is what one of the mouthpieces of this silly movement claimed ……  Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it" and is not shy about labelling her discussions on race as "CRT".

    Now that’s racist but you’re to st-upid to admit that because it doesn’t fit your ridiculous fable   








    Blastcat
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    I have never seen anyone support CRT, as I do not myself (though I have never seen any semblance of any CRT being taught at my school, nor any other public school in Illinois). I just see it as an excuse to take down "politically controversial" things, like Pride flags, BLM flags, and other things.
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Luigi7255 said:
    I have never seen anyone support CRT, as I do not myself (though I have never seen any semblance of any CRT being taught at my school, nor any other public school in Illinois). I just see it as an excuse to take down "politically controversial" things, like Pride flags, BLM flags, and other things.

    How does CRT constitute an excuse to take down politically controversial things?
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    @Blastcat

    That's the key: it doesn't. I meant it as I see it as an excuse to take things down, as in, that conservatives see it that way. We see it with the heavy restrictions regarding ANY mention of LGBTQ+ characters in a book, but they just pump up the noise on their CRT endeavors to silence the book restrictions out. Even an Oregon school made it a rule that you can't bring a pride flag or a BLM flag to school in any way shape or form (like a sweatshirt), but they don't mind stuff like Three-Percenters things.
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Luigi7255 said:
    @Blastcat

    That's the key: it doesn't. I meant it as I see it as an excuse to take things down, as in, that conservatives see it that way. We see it with the heavy restrictions regarding ANY mention of LGBTQ+ characters in a book, but they just pump up the noise on their CRT endeavors to silence the book restrictions out. Even an Oregon school made it a rule that you can't bring a pride flag or a BLM flag to school in any way shape or form (like a sweatshirt), but they don't mind stuff like Three-Percenters things.

    I suppose that people who promote white supremacy will not like CRT. They might promote the Three-percenters.

    So, I think I know what you mean now.
    I think that you are saying that some people want to prevent the teaching of CRT so to promote a kind of racism.

    Is that correct?
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    @Blastcat

    In a way, yes. They use it to suppress any mention of race as to make a vision that slavery and segregation never happened.
    BlastcatPlaffelvohfenSkepticalOne
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: The unknown "They"

    Luigi7255 said:
    @Blastcat

    In a way, yes. They use it to suppress any mention of race as to make a vision that slavery and segregation never happened.

    Could you explain who "they" are?
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 565 Pts   -  
    @Blastcat

    "They" are the white conservatives that threaten school board members and protests like this:
    PlaffelvohfenBlastcatSkepticalOne
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    "Critical race theory" in the US is the same kind of stuff as "dialectic materialism" in Soviet Union, "Chinese folklore studies" in China and "studies" of the greatness of the Great Leader in North Korea: ideological pseudo-scientific mishmash of things aimed at (in a former KGB agent Yury Bezmenov's terminology) demoralization of the society. The idea is that you teach people to accept obvious falsehoods and pretend as if they are not falsehoods, and by forcing them to lie constantly and intentionally, you break their will and self-esteem and make them easy to manipulate.

    There is no substance to these "theories", and, of course, in a civilized society they should be treated the same way as the idea of "flat Earth" is treated, or, as I suggest, any religion should be treated: as something you do not bring up in front of a decent crowd.
    Blastcat
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar So how do you explain slavery in America?  Did Africans sneak into the country and beg to be slaves?  Was the Ku Klux Klan just a book club?
    BlastcatSkepticalOne
  • anarchist100anarchist100 605 Pts   -  
    Blastcat
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    So how do you explain slavery in America? 

    What has explaining slavery got to do with anything?

     Did Africans sneak into the country and beg to be slaves?  Was the Ku Klux Klan just a book club?

    How is this in anyway relevant? Wouldn’t the past be covered under History is schools 
    Blastcat
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    @JulesKorngold

    So how do you explain slavery in America? 

    What has explaining slavery got to do with anything?

     Did Africans sneak into the country and beg to be slaves?  Was the Ku Klux Klan just a book club?

    How is this in anyway relevant? Wouldn’t the past be covered under History is schools 
    @Dee CRT maintains systemic racism peaked with slavery and a belief in white superiority contributed to the idea that non-white people were little more than animals.  Read Columbus's letters to Queen Isabella.  He felt non-whites were barely human.

    @MayCaesar rejects all this.  I think it's quite fair, reasonable, and relevant to ask what @MayCaesar DOES accept.

    As for history courses covering these topics, several states have banned teaching anything about systemic racism and white superiority.


    BlastcatSkepticalOne
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @JulesKorngold

    @Dee CRT maintains systemic racism peaked with slavery and a belief in white superiority contributed to the idea that non-white people were little more than animals.  Read Columbus's letters to Queen Isabella.  He felt non-whites were barely human.

    We learn this stuff in history classes over here. Also do you know  how the Irish were treated on arrival in the new world greeted by signs , no dogs , Irish or blacks ?

    Americans felt white Irish were lower than blacks or dogs so what?  It’s  in the past and all part of history , this constant whining by black Americans about the past  and trying to hold this generation as guilty is utterly futile 

    @MayCaesar rejects all this.  I think it's quite fair, reasonable, and relevant to ask what @MayCaesar DOES accept.

    I don’t believe May rejected what you mentioned you need to read what he said again 

    As for history courses covering these topics, several states have banned teaching anything about systemic racism and white superiority.

    Really? Americans keep telling me they have the best constitution in the world and yet never stop finding fault with it , so your contention is several states have banned the freedom to teach history in the US ? Or are you saying they banned CRT which I would ban myself as they brand all whites racist 
    Blastcat
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Dee said:
    @JulesKorngold

    @MayCaesar rejects all this.  I think it's quite fair, reasonable, and relevant to ask what @MayCaesar DOES accept.

    I don’t believe May rejected what you mentioned you need to read what he said again 

    As for history courses covering these topics, several states have banned teaching anything about systemic racism and white superiority.

    Really? Americans keep telling me they have the best constitution in the world and yet never stop finding fault with it , so your contention is several states have banned the freedom to teach history in the US ? Or are you saying they banned CRT which I would ban myself as they brand all whites racist 
    @Dee

    @MayCaesar said "There is no substance to these "theories", and, of course, in a civilized society they should be treated the same way as the idea of "flat Earth" is treated."  That seems like a pretty strong rejection of CRT, and the existence of white nationalism, white superiority, and systemic racism.

    Eight states (Idaho, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Iowa, New Hampshire, Arizona, and South Carolina) have passed legislation. banning the discussion, training, and/or orientation that the U.S. is inherently racist as well as any discussions about conscious and unconscious bias, privilege, discrimination, and oppression. These parameters also extend beyond race to include gender lectures and discussions.

    None of the state bills that have passed even actually mention the words “critical race theory” explicitly, with the exception of Idaho.

    Again, CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, CRT states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race.
    BlastcatSkepticalOne
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    @MayCaesar
     said "There is no substance to these "theories", and, of course, in a civilized society they should be treated the same way as the idea of "flat Earth" is treated."  That seems like a pretty strong rejection of CRT,

    I reject CRT also it brands all whites racist , do you accept you’re racist because they say so?

    and the existence of white nationalism, white superiority, and systemic racism.

    Thats not a fair point that’s your add on 

    Eight states (Idaho, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Iowa, New Hampshire, Arizona, and South Carolina) have passed legislation. banning the discussion, training, and/or orientation that the U.S. is inherently racist

    Can you show me this legislation? If it refers to CRT it should be banned it’s a pile of claptrap 

    as well as any discussions about conscious and unconscious bias, privilege, discrimination, and oppression. These parameters also extend beyond race to include gender lectures and discussions.

    Show me proof of these claims?

    None of the state bills that have passed even actually mention the words “critical race theory” explicitly, with the exception of Idaho.


    What do they mention?

    Again, CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people.

    It does I’ve posted up evidence of such which you totally ignored …..  At least 30 schools recommended that students should read Not My Idea, a children's book that called racism "a white person's problem and we are all caught up in it".

    Its author, Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it" and is not shy about labelling her discussions on race as "CRT".

    You’ve also ignored several other points I made why’s that?


     Simply put, CRT states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race.

    Yes it makes a lot of claims all they do is whine , do Americans not get sick to their back teeth of blacks claiming it’s all the whites fault that prisons are filled with huge amounts of blacks compared to whites , that unemployment amongst blacks is our fault , that they neglect education is our fault , they fill ghettos with gangsta  music and culture that’s basically “f-uck the white man” it’s all our fault …..it’s pretty pathetic to say the least 
    BlastcatPlaffelvohfen
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    Dee said:
    @JulesKorngold

    Again, CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people.

    It does I’ve posted up evidence of such which you totally ignored …..  At least 30 schools recommended that students should read Not My Idea, a children's book that called racism "a white person's problem and we are all caught up in it".

    Its author, Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it" and is not shy about labelling her discussions on race as "CRT".

    Before I respond to your many claims and questions I have a question of my own:  Have you actually read "Not My Idea" by Anastasia Higginbotham?  I put it on hold at my local library and expect to read and assess it soon.
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @JulesKorngold

    Before I respond to your many claims and questions I have a question of my own:  Have you actually read "Not My Idea" by Anastasia Higginbotham?  I put it on hold at my local library and expect to read and assess it soon.

    No I haven’t , I’ve read quotes from it and seen most the images from the book , this book would make white kids feel like cr-ap as it basically labels all whites as racist and … racism "a white person's problem and we are all caught up in it".and states …. Its author, Anastasia Higginbotham, has argued that "any place where there are white people has violent white supremacy embedded into it


    Talk about laying a guilt trip on all white kids it’s appalling , why not teach kids the history of slavery and race issues and stop playing this ludicrous blame game , surely kids can be thought basic reasoning skills regards respect and tolerance for fellow humans?

    Here are some the illustrations that innocent  white kids will have to sit through and be totally embarrassed and victimised for the sins of their forefathers …..







    Blastcat
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -  
    The material you posted is appalling and should not be taught anywhere.  Thanks for presenting it.
    Blastcat
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    Your welcome Jules and thank you for the discussion it was very interesting indeed 
    Blastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    That is not what "Critical Race Theory" states. That slaves were shipped to Americas primarily from Africa by primarily white colonialists is a historical fact, one that should be taught in schools. "Critical Race Theory" offers a very different take on the history of the world, however.

    It begins with the primary presumption of Marxism: that fundamentally human societies are about power struggles between different groups. Now, in Marxism those groups were primarily defined by their economical "class", but in postmodernism in general and its "Critical Race Theory" subset specifically they are mostly defined by their immutable characteristics, such as race, gender or sexuality. So the entire society is seen as a grand power struggle between the "oppressors", who are the dominant groups, and the "oppressed", who are the allegedly subservient groups.

    Developing this idea, it therefore states that every nation, every society is set up by the "oppressors" in such a way as to control and exploit the "oppressed". In fact, the entire idea of any real nation is to subject the "oppressed" to the "oppressors'" rule; there are no other reasons for a nation to exist.
    Furthermore, this oppression is built in to the system so deeply, that even the members of the "oppressor" class that refuse to partake in any oppression, or even fight openly against it, still contribute to the oppression by the very fact of living and operating within this system. Therefore, all white people in any Western country contribute to the oppression, no matter what they do. Conversely, all black people struggle against the oppression, even those who deny its existence.

    From this, follows the idea of evaluating institutions and individuals. An institution that is built by the "oppressor" class is fundamentally evil, and an individual who is a member of the "oppressor" class should be judged by their worst aspects alone, as they already have all the incredible advantages, and such judgement is required to offset these unfair benefits - and members of the "oppressed" class all must be judged by their best (i.e. most contributing to the struggle against oppression) aspects.
    Therefore, for instance, Thomas Jefferson was an evil white man, because, regardless of all the great accomplishments he made, he was also a slave owner. George Floyd, on the other hand, is a hero, because, despite all the horrible crimes he had committed, he ultimately died for the anti-racist cause. So Jefferson's statues must be demolished, and Floyd's statues must be erected.

    I could continue, but it should be clear at this point that this theory is an ideological drivel, set up in such a way as to be unfalsifiable and uncontestable. This kind of thing can be found in every authoritarian society out there; for example, in Russia where I had the misfortune of living for many years, the predominant narrative is that "evil Westerners are plotting against noble Russians, wanting to enslave them and take away their grand natural resources" - and you cannot combat this narrative: if you point out something that the West does that does not benefit Russia, they will say, "See, I told you so!", and if you point out something that the West does that does benefit Russia, they will say, "They are just doing it so as to distract you from their actual plans".
    A free and prosperous society like the American one should not touch anything like this with a ten-foot pole.

    The bottom line is, the fact that some historical events took place somewhere does not make them the defining feature of that time. The fact that the Japanese army raped and slaughtered Chinese civilians in the millions just a bit under a century ago does not make the Japanese society fundamentally a militant expansionist totalitarian megatribe; it may have been it at that time, but such things do not propagate through time infinitely. Similarly, the fact that the US had slavery in the past, including at the time of its conception, does not make it fundamentally a systematically racist country. Countries and societies evolve over time, many events take place, and not all of those events define the country and the society.
    "Critical Race Theorists", needless to say, do not consider this. In their view, "once racist = fundamentally racist + always racist", and the only way to break out of this cycle is to demolish the whole thing and to build some kind of an egalitarian paradise from the grounds up, in the process granting privileges and handicaps around based on the past historical injustices so as to equalize not just the outcome, but the integral of the outcomes across the entire history. Only when this equalization is complete, will the past evils be fully atoned, in their eyes. That is to say, never.
    Blastcat
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 216 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Argument Topic: The Basic Foundation

    @MayCaesar

    The architects of Critical Race Theory argue that the United States was founded on the theft of land and labor.

    What is your view?

    The architects of Critical Race Theory argue that present-day Whites are responsible for correcting the systemic racism still present in America.

    What is your view?
    Blastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    My view is that every country is founded on illegal appropriation of land and labor, but that is not what defines every single aspect of every single country. As far as countries go, the legitimacy of the US is pretty strong, considering that its people fought a liberation war against the most powerful empire in human history, wrote a pretty decent Constitution (absolutely revolutionary for its time) and actually followed its tenets for many decades. The fact that slavery used to exist in the US is not that special, considering that slavery has existed everywhere on this planet - and the US was among the earlier abolitionists of all forms of it.

    Present-day "whites" are not responsible for anything, because there is no such thing as a group of whites that is in any meaningful sense separated from non-whites. There is no systemic racism in the US today of any measurable degree, nor is there in most countries in the world.

    The architects of "Critical Race Theory" may sometimes be right about something, same as a broken clock that is right twice a day, but their arguments are never worth paying attention to, considering that the premises they derive from are intellectually bankrupt.
    GnosticChristianBlastcat
  • Argument Topic: I will argue for the benefits of racism and hate.

    Things we wont say about race that are true - YouTube

    We are tribal by nature and stick to our root tribes for fellowship, love and prosperity.

    This love bias, created by our selfish gene cannot be ignored.

    It also creates a hate bias, that is mostly dormant, yet always there.

    We are in fact too good to each other.

    That is why it is taking us so long to become a unified civilized world.

    We do not hate our evil ways enough. It is ruining the planet.

    Many are hating us French, but like it or not, we make the best lovers. 

    Kidding mon ami.  ;-)

    Regards
    DL


  • MayCaesar said:
    @JulesKorngold

    My view is that every country is founded on illegal appropriation of land and labor, but that is not what defines every single aspect of every single country. As far as countries go, the legitimacy of the US is pretty strong, considering that its people fought a liberation war against the most powerful empire in human history, wrote a pretty decent Constitution (absolutely revolutionary for its time) and actually followed its tenets for many decades. The fact that slavery used to exist in the US is not that special, considering that slavery has existed everywhere on this planet - and the US was among the earlier abolitionists of all forms of it.

    Present-day "whites" are not responsible for anything, because there is no such thing as a group of whites that is in any meaningful sense separated from non-whites. There is no systemic racism in the US today of any measurable degree, nor is there in most countries in the world.

    The architects of "Critical Race Theory" may sometimes be right about something, same as a broken clock that is right twice a day, but their arguments are never worth paying attention to, considering that the premises they derive from are intellectually bankrupt.
    If you do not see the predominant black population in your jails, and have forgotten most of your anti-black history, be it geographically centered in backwards looking states, you may not be not fit to judge racism an the U.S.

    To most colors, white is known for looking too favorably to itself.

    What is your color.

    I am white and privileged.

    Regards
    DL


  • MayCaesar 4089 Pts   -  10:12AM
    @JulesKorngold

    That is not what "Critical Race Theory" states. That slaves were shipped to Americas primarily from Africa by primarily white colonialists is a historical fact, one that should be taught in schools. "Critical Race Theory" offers a very different take on the history of the world, however.

    All opinion.

    Those who captured and sold the most slaves for others, if memory serves, were black.

    Slavery is everyone's fault. It is not directly related to color.

    It is tied to our love of war.

    Regards
    DL


  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -  
    @JulesKorngold

    Virtually nothing should be barred from being taught. Whether it is universally accepted or not, there's no reason it cannot be taught so students can make their own informed decisions on it. 
    GnosticChristianBlastcat
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @piloteer

    Virtually nothing should be barred from being taught.

    Right , how about Palmistry , remote viewing , eugenics ? CRT tells all white kids that  they are guilty of racism just for being white 

    Whether it is universally accepted or not, there's no reason it cannot be taught so students can make their own informed decisions on it. 


    Really so creationism fits that bill you seriously wanted your children to waste time learning absolute bunk ?

    Next you will be saying the appalling CRT should be taught in schools ……LOL 
    Blastcat
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @Dee

    Yes, those things should be taught. Not as factual information, but as belief. We are taught about Greek and Roman God's, and it never hurt anybody. If our education were based only teaching things that nobody has a problem with, then we wouldn't have an education system because virtually every topic is rejected by someone. Instead, all those things should be taught and why they are so controversial.        
    BlastcatZeusAres42
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    Yes, those things should be taught. 

    I would pull my kids from a school that taught Palmistry , Remote viewing , Your earth Creationism, there is absolutely no point in knowing about these unless in a class that tells students the difference between pseudoscience and science that’s one lesson nothing more  

    Not as factual information, but as belief. 

    Read above 

    We are taught about Greek and Roman God's, and it never hurt anybody

    Yes that came under English classes when I was a kid

    . If our education were based only teaching things that nobody has a problem with, then we wouldn't have an education system because virtually every topic is rejected by someone. 

    That’s simply not true I don’t know any parents who object to science, history,  geography , math, languages yet I bet I couldn’t find one who insists on Pamistry classes for all 

    Instead, all those things should be taught and why they are so controversial.        

    As I said one class in science would do it under the difference between pseudoscience and science , teach kids reasoning skills so they easily spot the Bull 
    piloteerGnosticChristianBlastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    GnosticChristian said:

    If you do not see the predominant black population in your jails, and have forgotten most of your anti-black history, be it geographically centered in backwards looking states, you may not be not fit to judge racism an the U.S.

    To most colors, white is known for looking too favorably to itself.

    What is your color.

    I am white and privileged.

    Regards
    DL


    You are surely intelligent enough to understand the fallacy of assuming that every instance of inequality of outcomes between different groups is evidence of systemic discrimination. For example, the fact that the predominant population in jails of any country are males does not imply that males are discriminated against everywhere; it may just imply that, for various reasons (biological, social, historical, cultural and so on), males are more likely to engage in behaviors that lead one to ending up jail.
    As for history, it is called "history" for a reason. What happened in the past does not describe what occurs at present.

    I do not care what "most colors" think, as the color of one's skin is not important to me. And if in a debate you have to ask what my skin color is, then you have conceded the debate. Unless you think that one's color actually affects the validity of their argument, which is a racist point of view, with which I congratulate you.
    GnosticChristian
  • BlastcatBlastcat 409 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: MayCaesar makes a claim

    MayCaesar said:
    @JulesKorngold

    That is not what "Critical Race Theory" states.
    Yet does not provide a source for that conclusion.
    ZeusAres42
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Dee said:
    @piloteer

    Yes, those things should be taught. 

    I would pull my kids from a school that taught Palmistry , Remote viewing , Your earth Creationism, there is absolutely no point in knowing about these unless in a class that tells students the difference between pseudoscience and science that’s one lesson nothing more  

    Not as factual information, but as belief. 

    Read above 

    We are taught about Greek and Roman God's, and it never hurt anybody

    Yes that came under English classes when I was a kid

    . If our education were based only teaching things that nobody has a problem with, then we wouldn't have an education system because virtually every topic is rejected by someone. 

    That’s simply not true I don’t know any parents who object to science, history,  geography , math, languages yet I bet I couldn’t find one who insists on Pamistry classes for all 

    Instead, all those things should be taught and why they are so controversial.        

    As I said one class in science would do it under the difference between pseudoscience and science , teach kids reasoning skills so they easily spot the Bull 
    Yes. Even if it's taught as a "sociology viewpoint" then yes, it should still at least be taught, and won't interfere with any proper science like psychology and astronomy. But I must point out that the question of this discussion is whether CRT should, or shouldn't be taught, and even if it's taught in social studies or civics, it should still be taught in some manner.   
    GnosticChristian
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @piloteer

    Yes. Even if it's taught as a "sociology viewpoint" then yes,

    Well good luck in finding a school that teaches this Bull cr-ap do you know of any ? 

    it should still at least be taught, and won't interfere with any proper science like psychology and astronomy.

    No it shouldn’t which is why it’s not 

     But I must point out that the question of this discussion is whether CRT should, or shouldn't be taught, and even if it's taught in social studies or civics, it should still be taught in some manner.   

    No it shouldn’t and it’s should be resisted it basically teaches that all white kids are guilty of racism and are flawed , it’s utter poison 
    GnosticChristianBlastcat
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    piloteer said:

    Yes. Even if it's taught as a "sociology viewpoint" then yes, it should still at least be taught, and won't interfere with any proper science like psychology and astronomy. But I must point out that the question of this discussion is whether CRT should, or shouldn't be taught, and even if it's taught in social studies or civics, it should still be taught in some manner.   
    It sounds like your position is that anything that is seen by many people as an important phenomenon today should be taught. How far does it extend? Should kids at school be taught how to play World of Warcraft? Should they be taught rap and its different subgenres? How about fishing? How different liquors are made and what they taste like?

    I do not think any of that is called "education", unless it is an integral part of some more general program. I do not see what makes CRT in any way special that makes it stand out among millions other things students can, in principle, be taught.
    Blastcat
  • Dee said:
    @piloteer

    Virtually nothing should be barred from being taught.

    Right , how about Palmistry , remote viewing , eugenics ? CRT tells all white kids that  they are guilty of racism just for being white 

    Whether it is universally accepted or not, there's no reason it cannot be taught so students can make their own informed decisions on it. 


    Really so creationism fits that bill you seriously wanted your children to waste time learning absolute bunk ?

    Next you will be saying the appalling CRT should be taught in schools ……LOL 
    The sooner a child learns of the absolute bunk, and why it is bunk, the better, as then he is as well protected with facts as a parent can make him or her.

    Religions do way to much harm to society for the intelligence to judge them cannot be stifled.

    That would be quite cruel, and society shooting itself in the foot.

    Religions are shrinking nicely and we do not want to stem the tide.

    Regards
    DL
    piloteer
  • MayCaesar said:
    I do not think any of that is called "education", unless it is an integral part of some more general program. I do not see what makes CRT in any way special that makes it stand out among millions other things students can, in principle, be taught.
    I like that idea.

    How about a General View of Man's Inhumanity to Man, --- due to religions with homophobic and misogynous policies, like our present immoral mainstream religions?

    Regards
    DL

    Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall (HQ) - YouTube
    piloteer
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    I do not think religion should be taught in schools either, aside from in history and philosophy classes given how much impact it has had on the historical events and philosophical discourse. 

    As far as I am concerned, religions are old fantasy stories that have outlived their utility (if they ever had one in the first place). The Bible should be paid about as much attention in the school program as the Lord of the Rings or the Harry Potter (which are superior books, in my estimation).
    BlastcatGnosticChristian
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    ALL those things should be taught when the students reach an appropriate age for them to be able to understand it fully. Education is for enlightenment, not for "practical knowledge". This is especially more important now that the US is a service based economy rather than a manufacturing economy. Knowledge is more important than strength, or the ability to endure endless hours of repetitive work, because manufacturing is not what is required of us as workers in our modern economy. Knowledge cannot be inhibited if we have any interest to continue to be a competitive economic country. And we do have that interest!!!  

    Or, instead we could try to have one of those "practical knowledge" education systems that only teaches in accordance to socioeconomic status and proper social status etiquette. That way, we can ensure no chance of upward mobility for anybody and "social justice" will become as binding as the law. It would be most unsatisfactory for economic development.  

    Or, we could have no education system and relinquish all education necessities to the private sector. In that scenario, the decision would be based on the wants of the costumers and the private businesses who provide the education. You would have no valid claim as to what any private school decides to offer their students for educational services. If education becomes a service provided by the private sector, topics for education will not be suppressed because of other peoples "feelings" about the topics at hand. 

    Our ability to adapt economically as a nation is important, that's why our economic liberties are equally important, if not, more!!! Because our economic situation demands knowledge at fast speeds, our demand for education is paramount. Inhibiting education for "emotional reasons" is criminal $tupidity. Those who are fiercely opposed to learning about should not be forced to. But nobody else should be barred from learning about it because of everybody else's "feelings" about it. We'll end up with "re-education" camps if we start letting "feelings" govern us. Let's not go down that road!!!!!      

    Even if it is taught for only current events or civics classes, there's no reason for it to be barred from being taught in some manner!!! I'm pretty sure the students won't be stricken by illness if they learn about "sociological theories" like CRT. It's only words people. It's not a big deal. 
    GnosticChristian
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @GnosticChristian

    I personally think you've made the best point so far. If everybody who thinks it shouldn't be taught because it's rubbish, then why are they so afraid that everybody will find out that it's rubbish? unless of course, maybe it isn't rubbish.  :#    

    Nice touch with the classic Floyd by the way. 

    POEMS EVERYBODY. THE LADDY FANCIES HIMSELF A POET!!!!
     
    GnosticChristian
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4521 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @piloteer

    It is impossible to teach everything, so a school has to discriminate against the vast majority of topics. Is teaching students how to play World of Warcraft well a great way to spend the school's resources, and is this the best way for the students to spend their time? I do not think so. And World of Warcraft still is a much better material than "Critical Race Theory".

    I have never said that "Critical Race Theory" should be "barred" from being taught. As I said, private schools are free (or should be free) to teach whatever they want. Does not mean that they should actually choose to do so, which is what is in question here. And certainly, when the taxpayers' money is concerned, teaching ideologically driven courses is problematic.
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    @piloteer

     If everybody who thinks it shouldn't be taught because it's rubbish, then why are they so afraid that everybody will find out that it's rubbish? unless of course, maybe it isn't rubbish

    Right so telling white kids they are racist because they’re white you’re good with that ? Bet you would whistle a different  tune if black kids in schools were taught they are all criminals because they’re black which is why mostly black prisoners are in American jails 

    Here are two diagrams from one of the CRT textbooks schools are recommending in the US , it’s pure Marxist clap trap which paints all whites as the oppressors and all blacks as the oppressed 



    GnosticChristian
  • DeeDee 4703 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian

    The sooner a child learns of the absolute bunk, and why it is bunk, the better, as then he is as well protected with facts as a parent can make him or her.


    Yes if religious want their kids to learn religion I’ve no problem with once the subject is not forced on the child 

    What’s your point ?
  • MayCaesar said:
    @GnosticChristian

    I do not think religion should be taught in schools either, aside from in history and philosophy classes given how much impact it has had on the historical events and philosophical discourse. 

    As far as I am concerned, religions are old fantasy stories that have outlived their utility (if they ever had one in the first place). The Bible should be paid about as much attention in the school program as the Lord of the Rings or the Harry Potter (which are superior books, in my estimation).
    The Lord of the Rings has not created, and does not continue to create innocent victims who are discriminated against without a just cause.

    Homophobia and misogyny and adoring a genocidal god is a hell of a difference, that should not be ignored. Protection is paramount for our children and they should be warned against our vile mainstream religions.

    Regards
    DL

  • piloteer said:
    @MayCaesar

     But nobody else should be barred from learning about it because of everybody else's "feelings" about it. We'll end up with "re-education" camps if we start letting "feelings" govern us. Let's not go down that road!!!!!      

    Even if it is taught for only current events or civics classes, there's no reason for it to be barred from being taught in some manner!!! I'm pretty sure the students won't be stricken by illness if they learn about "sociological theories" like CRT. It's only words people. It's not a big deal. 
    All education has value and no issue should ever be restricted.

    I do not like the methods the religious use to teach though. It looks more like abuse.

    Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ''Highlights'' )

    Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ''Highlights'' ).flv - YouTube

    Regards

    DL


  • Dee said:
    @piloteer

     If everybody who thinks it shouldn't be taught because it's rubbish, then why are they so afraid that everybody will find out that it's rubbish? unless of course, maybe it isn't rubbish

    Right so telling white kids they are racist because they’re white you’re good with that ? 

    Why center out whites when all of us are naturally racist.

    Why not teach that truth, given that is is demonstrably true?

    We all favor our color, and the healthiest minds will enjoy all the colors.

    Bollywood might be an exception to this. They seem to be favoring the lighter shades of their societies color.

    Even black kids prefer lighter colored dolls.

    I have not looked at that research for some time, but our natural leanings to lighter shades should not be ignored.

    Regards
    DL

  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 247 Pts   -   edited November 2021
    Dee said:
    @GnosticChristian

    The sooner a child learns of the absolute bunk, and why it is bunk, the better, as then he is as well protected with facts as a parent can make him or her.


    Yes if religious want their kids to learn religion I’ve no problem with once the subject is not forced on the child 

    What’s your point ?



    My point is -----

    A parents duty is to educate, not indoctrinate.

    Regards
    DL
  • piloteerpiloteer 1511 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    Teaching ideology is not "problematic". I don't know what would give you that impression, but I don't care anyway because it's a rather vague and shallow argument to make. We are taught the ideology of the principles of the US constitution, and the juxtaposition of other ideologies when compared to the ideology of the US constitution can only serve students to make them even more informed on ideologies and why the US constitution embraced the ideals it did. 

    You didn't even change your argument in your last rebuttal. You just said the same thing as before, just in a different way. All you're saying is it shouldn't be taught because you, or others  don't like it. You haven't done anything to discredit CRT, but even if you absolutely destroyed it as a valid "theory", that doesn't mean it shouldn't be taught. We are taught in school that the earth was once considered flat, and that it was the center of our universe. That's not true at all, but it is still discussed. Even if something is taught because of how profoundly wrong or unreliable it was, it's still a very important topic to be discussed.         
    ZeusAres42
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