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Would the Invasion of Ukraine happen if Trump was in office?

Debate Information

Just that.

Yada, yada, he held aid from Ukraine during the Donetsk and Luhansk crisis and made it look like he was going to leave NATO, it definitely would've.
OakTownACYDdhartaSkepticalOne
"I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
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  • DeeDee 4708 Pts   -  
    Well Trump bowed his head in respect to  the crown Prince of Saudi so he would possibly blow Putin once he got his orange head patted after blowing Putin ......Having said that sleepy Joe is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot during this crisis
    CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1690 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Bandwagon fallacy. Just because a majority of people hold an opinion does not mean it's true.
    OakTownA
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    That's the best indication to be found, considering the question is a complete hypothetical. 
  • Cringe_TrainCringe_Train 250 Pts   -  
    @Luigi7255
    Putin kind of did it on his own. Yeah it still would have happened but now we'd also have Trump threatening nuclear war.
    Meex
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1690 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    It's not a reliable indication at all. We're debating whether the invasion would have happened or not. Saying "people think it would" or "people think it wouldn't" is completely irrelevant.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    It's a better indicator than anything else as to the answer to a question like "imagine what would have happened if..."
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @Cringe_Train

    Putin wouldn't have been able to invade if Pres. Trump were still in office.  We'd still be an oil exporter, oil prices wouldn't have skyrocketed, and the Russian economy would still be struggling.  It's Biden's Dem policies that made the Russian invasion of Ukraine possible.
    SonofasonOakTownA
  • bjinthirtybjinthirty 113 Pts   -  
    By the comments Donald Trump has made in his young years and recently on TV calling Putin “playing it smart” in Ukraine. This leads me to believe Trump doesnt discriminate any crime, people, or action. He does however praise the amount of people you can fool to get something done. He does not care about the United States other than the United States international power and recognition. He stands behind power and the US yields it. Would this have happened if Trump were in office? probably not. The votes were rigged and found Russia to be involved. Factoring in the next presidential election and the current Ukraine crisis, Id say this could of been easily planned before time. The upcoming presidential candidates to the US are trash with only Trump standing solid. The only time anyone should fear Donald Trump is when he has leverage over you if he doesnt, he will bow. If he does, he wont listen and use his power for show and tell. The one thing scary about Trump the world sees is that he cannot be trusted and will turn on you if he has more leverage over you any time of day. Do I trust Trump? no I dont. But i do know that Trump would sacrifice anything to prove a point even if it means giving money to the poor or wiping off debts to gain one vote.
  • dallased25dallased25 253 Pts   -  
    I'm really not sure, hard to say. Trump took hard line stances on foreign policy, he sure was willing to tick off China! That being said, would Putin have gone to war with Trump in the office....a part of me thinks no. Yet I think Putin is so crazy, that he would have done it anyways and then we'd have Trump threatening world war 3. One thing is for sure, Putin needs to be "Putout" (bu dum pish). 
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -  
    Ukraine has very little value in the eyes of the US, so, despite all the big rhetoric, no US president is likely to commit to defending Ukraine or punishing Russia for the invasion by other means. Trump, Biden or whoever else - Putin knows that he is likely to get away with the invasion and would commence it in any case.

    Trump, perhaps, could placate Putin by offering him favorable trade relations if he refrains from invading Ukraine, but other than that, I fail to see how him being president would change anything.
    OakTownA
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @bjinthirty

    I hadn't heard that the Russians were particularly active in the 2020 election.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    If Trump was still in power Putin would use Trump like a puppet like he did before and not only would he invade Ukraine but he would take all the other country’s around it and Alaska and Trump would just say oh sure just do it Vlady baby because I like kissing your bottom.@CYDdharta
    OakTownA
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

    Really?!?  During the W Bush years, Russia invaded Georgia (the country, not the state, child).  During the 0bama years, Russia invaded and annexed Crimea.  And now, during Dementia Joe's 2nd year in office, Russia has invaded Ukraine.  It was only during Pres. Trump's term in office that the Russians didn't invade anyone.  Once again, if Pres. Trump were still in office, the Russian economy would still be floundering and they wouldn't be able to launch an invasion.
  • BonitaVanhooserBonitaVanhooser 130 Pts   -  
    Media played a big role to overcome his credibility. I know he likes Putin but in my opinion, he was good at dealing with people like this. Biden's performance is really poor on such issues. 
  • Cringe_TrainCringe_Train 250 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    @Cringe_Train

    Putin wouldn't have been able to invade if Pres. Trump were still in office.  We'd still be an oil exporter, oil prices wouldn't have skyrocketed, and the Russian economy would still be struggling.  It's Biden's Dem policies that made the Russian invasion of Ukraine possible.
    I'd like to point out that the russian economy is in the position it is because of Putin's invasion on Ukraine.

    Actually here's a funny thing that happened the other day; there's this kid's game called Roblox and it has a fake virtual currency called "Robux" Basically you spend real money and you get this virtual currency you can spend in game on clothes and stuff for your character. So for example, $25 is 2,000 Robux.

    The Russian ruble is literally now worth less than one robux.

    I'm not making an argument here I just thought it was funny.


    Putin is kind of ignoring other countries on this. If Trump was in office, Putin would still have invaded but I think the US military would be more involved.
    The issue with that is Putin threatened Nuclear war if any other country tired to stop him. So he's essentially holding Ukraine hostage.

    As for the oil thing, I personally feel a transition to clean energy will help us in the long run. I'd rather us make the switch sooner than later since fossil fuels aren't gonna be around forever.
    OakTownA
  • exconexcon 490 Pts   -   edited March 3
    Luigi7255 said:

    Would the Invasion of Ukraine happen if Trump was in office?


    Hello L:

    Of course.  And, WITH Trumps help, too..  You saw how Trump praised the invasion by telling us Putin was a genius, and the invasion was "wonderful".


    excon

    CYDdhartaOakTownA
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    And what about all the Mexican criminals and the Muslim criminals and the Russian mafia criminals. Like sure Trump did a great job about them invading the country not. Like the best de fence is a fence. I bet Vlady baby pead himself laughing when Trump the puppet did what Vlad told him to do then. @CYDdharta
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    Russia would never have invaded Ukraine if Trump were still the president.
    It only happened because Biden and every single democrat alive is weak.
    Barnardot
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    @Sonofason ;Russia would never have invaded Ukraine if Trump were still the president.

    Your saying that baloney but you can’t say why Russia would never of invaded Ukraine. What do you think Trump would do then.Put a wall around Ukraine? Or refuse to eat the caviar and vodka. You come out with a very meaningless load of baloney without explanation just like the red necks.

  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -   edited March 4
    Barnardot said:
    @Sonofason ;Russia would never have invaded Ukraine if Trump were still the president.

    Your saying that baloney but you can’t say why Russia would never of invaded Ukraine. What do you think Trump would do then.Put a wall around Ukraine? Or refuse to eat the caviar and vodka. You come out with a very meaningless load of baloney without explanation just like the red necks.

    What exactly was the Cuban missile crisis about?  Do you really think that the United States would allow an enemy with access to nuclear weaponry to occupy a neighboring country?  There is no way in hell the United States would let that happen.  Do you really think Russia should allow a neighboring country to have or to have access to nuclear weapons?
    Ukraine had nuclear weapons prior to 1991.  By 1994 there were no more nuclear weapons in Ukraine.  Why do you suppose they got rid of their nuclear weapons?  Trump, unlike nearly everyone in the United States knows this.  Well, people may know it, but no one is admitting it.  Like it or not, like him or not, Putin is doing what he has to do.  And he will follow through, unless he is somehow stopped.  And of course it is likely in the best interest of the United States to stop him.

    Trump would never have permitted Ukraine to even consider entertaining the idea of joining NATO for this very reason.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @Cringe_Train

    Spuffy, but I was referring to the Russian economy that went from it's 2nd lowest point in the last 25 years at a bit over -10 GDP in 2020, to it's highest point in May 2021 at 11.6 GDP, as Biden's anti-American energy policies went into effect.

    If Pres. Trump were still in office, Putin's economy wouldn't have experienced the rebirth it has under Biden, and they wouldn't have been able to afford an invasion even if they decided they wanted to test Pres. Trump.

    As for the electricity thing, a transition to electricity is fine, but it shouldn't be rushed due to politics, which is precisely what the Biden admin is doing.  The leftists/greenies aren't serious about getting off of fossil fuels, if they were we'd be in the midst of a nuclear reactor building spree.  There is no way to power the US with windmills and solar farms now, and energy demands are always increasing.  Regardless, emerging nations don't share your values.  They want cheap reliable energy, which means fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.  Their energy needs will be met, if not by the US, then certainly by Russia.  The only thing that has been accomplished by hobbling US energy production has been a strengthening of the Russian economy.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

    What about the Mexican and Muslim and Russian mafia criminals?  Pres. Trump had them waiting to be cleared in Mexico.  "Illegal entries in areas with new border wall system plummeted over 87% in FY 20 compared to FY 19."  Pres. Trump certainly did a great job about them invading the country, fer sure.  The best defense really is a fence.  If Vlad cared at all, it was negative.  It meant that for the first time, a US president actually meant what he said.
  • Cringe_TrainCringe_Train 250 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    @Cringe_Train

    Spuffy, but I was referring to the Russian economy that went from it's 2nd lowest point in the last 25 years at a bit over -10 GDP in 2020, to it's highest point in May 2021 at 11.6 GDP, as Biden's anti-American energy policies went into effect.

    If Pres. Trump were still in office, Putin's economy wouldn't have experienced the rebirth it has under Biden, and they wouldn't have been able to afford an invasion even if they decided they wanted to test Pres. Trump.

    As for the electricity thing, a transition to electricity is fine, but it shouldn't be rushed due to politics, which is precisely what the Biden admin is doing.  The leftists/greenies aren't serious about getting off of fossil fuels, if they were we'd be in the midst of a nuclear reactor building spree.  There is no way to power the US with windmills and solar farms now, and energy demands are always increasing.  Regardless, emerging nations don't share your values.  They want cheap reliable energy, which means fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.  Their energy needs will be met, if not by the US, then certainly by Russia.  The only thing that has been accomplished by hobbling US energy production has been a strengthening of the Russian economy.
    the Russian economy is not experiencing a rebirth. A fake currency in a kids game is literally more valuable than the Russian dollar right now.

    They may have benefited for a bit but they're not doing very good right now.

    The issue with nuclear energy is that people are scared of it. It's difficult to get people to be okay with a nuclear power plant.
    As for emerging nations, they will make the change eventually but innovation like this is always going to start with the first world countries.
    Also, the US is just cutting back on fossil fuels at home, we're still exporting them because money:
     https://www.npr.org/2021/10/29/1050620532/the-u-s-wants-to-cut-its-own-emissions-but-plans-to-keep-exporting-fossil-fuels#:~:text=Transcript-,Even as the U.S. aims to cut climate-warming emissions,of another global climate summit.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta

    Putin's economy is a paper tiger; the real living conditions in Russia are abysmal, and all the little (relative to its size and population) wealth that Russia has has always been put towards the ruling regime's goals. Russia has afforded many military operations in the past, at times when its economy was in a much direr state than today, such as the invasion of Chechnya (which is technically a part of Russia, but in practice a separatist Islamic dictatorship) right after experiencing a complete economical meltdown.

    The idea that dictatorships cannot "afford" a military operation does not make sense in principle, as in dictatorships, unlike democracies, people's interests are of no consequence, and the regime can always squeeze out every last penny from every resident, if needed, in order to pay for its conquests. Look at North Korea, that should not be able to afford anything, given how virtually all people there are permanently starved - yet it gets away just fine with the worst human right abuses in the world and with endless threats to hit South Korea or the US with nuclear weapons, while maintaining one of the largest military forces in the world consistently for decades.

    I do not know if Trump being president would have any effect on this invasion, but the idea that the invasion would not have happened because the Russian economy would have been in a poorer state and the invasion would not have been affordable does not survive any scrutiny.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    the Russian economy is not experiencing a rebirth. A fake currency in a kids game is literally more valuable than the Russian dollar right now.

    They may have benefited for a bit but they're not doing very good right now.

    The issue with nuclear energy is that people are scared of it. It's difficult to get people to be okay with a nuclear power plant.
    As for emerging nations, they will make the change eventually but innovation like this is always going to start with the first world countries.
    Also, the US is just cutting back on fossil fuels at home, we're still exporting them because money:
     https://www.npr.org/2021/10/29/1050620532/the-u-s-wants-to-cut-its-own-emissions-but-plans-to-keep-exporting-fossil-fuels#:~:text=Transcript-,Even as the U.S. aims to cut climate-warming emissions,of another global climate summit.

    The Russian economy certainly was experiencing a rebirth.

    People are scared of nuclear?!?  What's your point?  That obviously doesn't drive domestic policy.  People are scared of the covid vaccines.

    The article you cited argues for emerging nations to "skip that transition and move straight towards that clean energy future that the U.S. itself is working to achieve."  I can think of no better place for large-scale solar farms than the Sahara, yet only one of the 15 largest solar farms is located in Africa.  

    You're wrong about fossil fuel exports as well.  We're producing 129 barrels a day less than we were in 2020 (during the height of the pandemic) and 1105 barrels a day less than we were in 2019.  Oil production should be rising, not dropping.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    Russia didn't initiate the Chechen wars.  And what about North Korea?  They haven't invaded anyone.

    The booming economy that Biden provided Putin isn't the only cause of the invasion.  Other factors include weak and befuddled leadership of the US and Russia's looming demographic crisis.  Feckless leadership from this administration goes without saying, so the economy is the only other factor germane to the discussion.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -   edited March 4
    @CYDdharta

    Russia did initiate both invasions into Chechnya.
    North Korea has not invaded anyone, indeed, but certainly has the resources to, given the kind of an army it can maintain. A country as poor as many impoverished African republics has the 4th largest army in the world, larger than the Russian army at that.
    Invasions are not particularly expensive when you control the entire economy in your country and do not concern yourself with casualties on either side. Any country with an active military force can, in principle, just send the entire force to war and not care about any required resources, just letting the force fight until it is entirely exterminated.

    What "booming economy", may I ask? Russian GDP per capita remained fairly flat since 2017, and was rapidly dropping before that. If you want to base your argument on this kind of correlations, then you have to conclude that Obama is to thank for the fall of the Russian economy, and Trump was the one to stop this fall. Now Biden, through sanctions, has initiated another fall. Your conclusion contradicts your reasoning.

    Russia is a paper tiger. It does not produce much of value, aside from mining and selling raw resources. The only reason it is on the radar at all is its powerful military and the habit of meddling in other countries' affairs in the most destructive ways; it would be just another Indonesia otherwise, a huge country of absolutely no geopolitical consequence. Russia is not China; China is the real deal, and its economy has been rapidly growing for the past few decades regardless of who the president was.
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    It doesn’t matter what Trump did do and all the stuff about 87% the thing is that while Trump was in power he sucked up to the Russians which is what Putin wanted and he was able to saved up a heap of money to build up his army and live through the sanctions that he knew would happen. So now look, he is doing what he wants and the Russians love him because at least 70% support him, although it was 90% but anyway Biden and not even trump would be able to stop Putin because nobody tells him what to do and trump could only do the same as Biden is doing anyway. @CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar

    No, the first invasion was in response to the Chechen civil war.  The second invasion was in response to the invasion by the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade.  In both instances, Russia was responding.

    North Korea definitely does NOT have the resources to invade anyone, they have no navy.  Who could they invade, South Korea?  China?  

    If you consider a 20+ point swing in GDP from April 2020 to April 2021 to be "fairly flat" than you have a different opinion than pretty much everyone.  April 2021 (+11.2) and May 2021 (11.6)  was Russia's highest GDP in the 34 years of data I could find.  The facts are not on your side.
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    Barnardot said:
    It doesn’t matter what Trump did do and all the stuff about 87% the thing is that while Trump was in power he sucked up to the Russians which is what Putin wanted and he was able to saved up a heap of money to build up his army and live through the sanctions that he knew would happen. So now look, he is doing what he wants and the Russians love him because at least 70% support him, although it was 90% but anyway Biden and not even trump would be able to stop Putin because nobody tells him what to do and trump could only do the same as Biden is doing anyway. @CYDdharta
    He "sucked up to the Russians"???  Really???  How, by sending the Ukrainians weapons instead of blankets like the 0bama/Biden administration?  By opening up American oil production and hobbling Russia's economy?  By sanctioning Nord Stream 2, which Biden overturned 4 months into his term?  Whoever is feeding you that disinformation is doing you a disservice. 
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    Your getting things wrong again because Trump didn’t suck up to Putin by doing those things and I don’t know where you got that information from but I didn’t get it from anyone and didn’t say it so like what the. And anyway Biden is sending weapons to Ukraine through nato because he’s smart and doesn’t want to get blamed for fighting the Russians. And anyway you still don’t have an answer to Putin will do what he’s doing now even if mikey mouse is in power because Putin said that when he gets into a fight he throws the first punch. That’s what he said so there fore you lose because Trump would not be able to stop Putin especially if mikey mouse can’t lol @CYDdharta
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    @Barnardot

    I've answered your question numerous times.  Reread this thread.  Even the former Director of National Intelligence answered your question.  
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    I didn’t ask you a question did I . Anyway only redneck dufuses who were born yesterday read that sort of extreme conspiracy baloney so I would like to see you poor green slime into your bronco with the bull bars and the hunting lights like that guy does just because he think s the government is hiking the gas prices. Because you won’t get past the dinner on the other side of the road.@CYDdharta
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 4589 Pts   -   edited March 5
    CYDdharta said:
    @MayCaesar

    No, the first invasion was in response to the Chechen civil war.  The second invasion was in response to the invasion by the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade.  In both instances, Russia was responding.

    North Korea definitely does NOT have the resources to invade anyone, they have no navy.  Who could they invade, South Korea?  China?  

    If you consider a 20+ point swing in GDP from April 2020 to April 2021 to be "fairly flat" than you have a different opinion than pretty much everyone.  April 2021 (+11.2) and May 2021 (11.6)  was Russia's highest GDP in the 34 years of data I could find.  The facts are not on your side.
    Which means that these invasions were initiated by Russia, as I was saying. And as far as the ability to fund an invasion goes, it does not matter whether the invasion was an act of aggression or a response to one.

    Yes, North Korea could absolutely invade South Korea. According to the South Korean intelligence, such plans have been very seriously considered at the very top of the government.

    One year change is not an indication of anything and could easily be a statistical fluctuation; you have to look at multi-year trends for your analysis to be of consequence.  And I was talking about the GDP per capita; I am not aware of the total GDP data with respect to Russia, nor does it mean anything to me.
    I am also not seeing any swings compared to the general trend; I am seeing a recovery after the COVID-related dip, which is seen in virtually all countries around the world. How does recovering from a severe crisis and merely approaching the pre-crisis level again constitute a rebirth? Unless you consider that the Russian economy was dead during the COVID times, which, as someone having relatives living there, I can tell you it certainly was not.

    As of now, in Russia the banking system is almost on halt, shortages of everything are already appearing, prices are going through the roof, currency exchange is on halt, the stock market just experienced a whooping near-50% drop... You like crediting Trump with containing Russia - are you willing to be consistent and credit Biden with it, based on these observations? Empirically, under Biden the Russian economy is under the biggest duress since the 1998 default, and, by all accounts, it is only the beginning.
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1690 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    It's a better indicator than anything else as to the answer to a question like "imagine what would have happened if..."
    @CYDdharta
    Not a chance, . We are debating what would have happened. What other people think is next to useless when it comes to answering the question.
  • bjinthirtybjinthirty 113 Pts   -  
    You would think the most highest ranking officials in US Government would show more competence. In a coordinated attack like this gaining strength the United States Government must have atleast played with the idea that the kind of response expected would be sanctions. I think Russia had a plan for these sanctions even the world guessed it. Did we just fall for a trap? Will this weakness shown by the Biden administration be one to take years if ever to recover?. In my eyes the Russians are clearly bluffing with these attacks into getting Ukraine to surrender. These foreigners joining to fight agianst Russia are in for the longest boring year ever because Russia is not planning to win this war toe to toe. With US allies suffering the most America seems to be the one to blame. If the US were to significantly bomb key Russian military equipment entering Ukraine Russia would be quick to give up. They dont want confrontation but they are putting a good face pretending to be up for it. I say bomb the Russians hard and mobitor a response
  • BarnardotBarnardot 157 Pts   -  
    That’s a good point about what if because the redneck dufusses start saying what they want which is baloney. Putin said that he learned a long time a go that when you are getting into a fight then you should throw the first punch so that’s the fact. If Trump or Mikey Mouse is in power it doesn’t make any difference because Putin would do it anyway.@xlJ_dolphin_473
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    MayCaesar said:

    Which means that these invasions were initiated by Russia, as I was saying. And as far as the ability to fund an invasion goes, it does not matter whether the invasion was an act of aggression or a response to one.

    Yes, North Korea could absolutely invade South Korea. According to the South Korean intelligence, such plans have been very seriously considered at the very top of the government.

    One year change is not an indication of anything and could easily be a statistical fluctuation; you have to look at multi-year trends for your analysis to be of consequence.  And I was talking about the GDP per capita; I am not aware of the total GDP data with respect to Russia, nor does it mean anything to me.
    I am also not seeing any swings compared to the general trend; I am seeing a recovery after the COVID-related dip, which is seen in virtually all countries around the world. How does recovering from a severe crisis and merely approaching the pre-crisis level again constitute a rebirth? Unless you consider that the Russian economy was dead during the COVID times, which, as someone having relatives living there, I can tell you it certainly was not.

    As of now, in Russia the banking system is almost on halt, shortages of everything are already appearing, prices are going through the roof, currency exchange is on halt, the stock market just experienced a whooping near-50% drop... You like crediting Trump with containing Russia - are you willing to be consistent and credit Biden with it, based on these observations? Empirically, under Biden the Russian economy is under the biggest duress since the 1998 default, and, by all accounts, it is only the beginning.
    For the sake of this discussion, it certainly DOES matter whether they initiated the act or were responding to events that were thrust upon them.  The Russians were not in control of the timing of either Chechen entanglement.

    Um, yeah; and Georgia could invade Russia.  They also have no chance of succeeding.

    You're probably right about covid.  We'll never be able to tell just how much the Biden administration aided the Russian economy.

    Credit Biden for containing Russia?!?  While the Russians are in the midst of an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine?!?  You're not , you know what the word 'contained' means.  That's the opposite of being contained.  
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    It's a better indicator than anything else as to the answer to a question like "imagine what would have happened if..."
    @CYDdharta
    Not a chance, . We are debating what would have happened. What other people think is next to useless when it comes to answering the question.
    I agree with you to a point, what you think would have happened is completely useless.

    Once again, we're dealing with a hypothetical.  Consensus is easily the best indicator.
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    Barnardot said:
    Your getting things wrong again because Trump didn’t suck up to Putin by doing those things and I don’t know where you got that information from but I didn’t get it from anyone and didn’t say it so like what the. And anyway Biden is sending weapons to Ukraine through nato because he’s smart and doesn’t want to get blamed for fighting the Russians. And anyway you still don’t have an answer to Putin will do what he’s doing now even if mikey mouse is in power because Putin said that when he gets into a fight he throws the first punch. That’s what he said so there fore you lose because Trump would not be able to stop Putin especially if mikey mouse can’t lol @CYDdharta
    I'm sorry, there must be something wrong with my screen, because it looks like you just said that Biden is smart.  Have you ever seen him speak?
  • CYDdhartaCYDdharta 1799 Pts   -  
    Sonofason said:

    I'm sorry, there must be something wrong with my screen, because it looks like you just said that Biden is smart.  Have you ever seen him speak?
    You just had to divine meaning from that word salad, would you really be surprised if it did say Dementia Joe was smart?
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    CYDdharta said:
    Sonofason said:

    I'm sorry, there must be something wrong with my screen, because it looks like you just said that Biden is smart.  Have you ever seen him speak?
    You just had to divine meaning from that word salad, would you really be surprised if it did say Dementia Joe was smart?
    I don't know...nothing surprises me anymore.
  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 1690 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta
    Consensus is easily the best indicator.
    If that is true, what would be the point of debating if you can just settle things based on consensus? No need to share your arguments, just conduct a survey! This is an absurd proposition. In a debate, you need actually valid arguments. Not just a statistic of what people believe.
  • JoeKerrJoeKerr 247 Pts   -  
    @CYDdharta @Sonofason

    It is not difficult to find reasons to criticize President Biden, but using the word Dementia in a derogatory remark about Biden shows a total lack of thought for those who suffer from this terrible illness.
    It makes you come across as a bit of an a-ss-hole, but then, we already know that, don't we?
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    JoeKerr said:
    @CYDdharta @Sonofason

    It is not difficult to find reasons to criticize President Biden, but using the word Dementia in a derogatory remark about Biden shows a total lack of thought for those who suffer from this terrible illness.
    It makes you come across as a bit of an a-ss-hole, but then, we already know that, don't we?
    smart - having or showing a quick-witted intelligence.
    dementia - chronic or persistent disorder of the mental processes caused by brain disease or injury and marked by memory disorders, personality changes, and impaired reasoning.

    Now you can say what you like, but a person who has dementia is not smart.  Quick-witted intelligence requires astuteness of perception and judgment.  It requires a superior intellect.  It requires mental soundness.  

    I have said nothing about Joe Biden that is derogatory.
    If indeed Joe Biden has Dementia, then he is anything but smart.
    I asked, "Have you ever heard him speak"?
    If you have heard him speak, you can see quite clearly that Joe Biden is not smart.  
    And to make matters worse, he is the leader of a nuclear super-power that is on the brink of nuclear war.

    So it might behoove all of us if you would squeeze that sphincter of yours, and pop that head of yours out of your you know what.
  • exconexcon 490 Pts   -   edited March 6

    Would the Invasion of Ukraine happen if Trump was in office?

    Hello L:

    Of course..  Trump wanted to dismantle NATO..  In his second term, he would have done it.  So, Putin was waiting for Trump to disarm his enemies so he could waltz into Ukraine..

    excon
    CYDdharta
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    excon said:

    Would the Invasion of Ukraine happen if Trump was in office?

    Hello L:

    Of course..  Trump wanted to dismantle NATO..  In his second term, he would have done it.  So, Putin was waiting for Trump to disarm his enemies so he could waltz into Ukraine..

    excon
    What you say here makes no sense.  NATO still exists, and Putin started his war anyway.  What exactly about the absence of NATO would have made Putin more likely to go to war if he was willing to go to war in spite of NATO?
  • exconexcon 490 Pts   -   edited March 6
    Sonofason said:

    What you say here makes no sense.  NATO still exists, and Putin started his war anyway.  What exactly about the absence of NATO would have made Putin more likely to go to war if he was willing to go to war in spite of NATO?
    Hello S:

    If you read my post, I said in Trumps second term, he would have withdrawn from NATO..  But, he didn't HAVE a second term, so NATO remains..  If NATO were dissolved, Putin could make war on any former NATO members without making war on the United States..  With NATO intact, however, an attack on any NATO member is an attack on all the members.

    And, yes..  Putting Russian troops nose to nose with American troops in Poland, who is a NATO member, is an untenable and extremely dangerous situation.  

    As I think more on it, if Trump had withdrawn us from NATO, I'm absolutely sure Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine because, unlike now, we would have defended Ukraine militarily..  And, since that would have put our troops nose to nose with the Russians in Ukraine, that too is untenable.  And, I don't think Putin would have done that..

    So, maybe Trump was right..   Yes, the sound you hear is me choking when I said that.

    excon
    Meex
  • SonofasonSonofason 401 Pts   -  
    excon said:
    Sonofason said:

    What you say here makes no sense.  NATO still exists, and Putin started his war anyway.  What exactly about the absence of NATO would have made Putin more likely to go to war if he was willing to go to war in spite of NATO?
    Hello S:

    If you read my post, I said in Trumps second term, he would have withdrawn from NATO..  But, he didn't HAVE a second term, so NATO remains..  If NATO were dissolved, Putin could make war on any former NATO members without making war on the United States..  With NATO intact, however, an attack on any NATO member is an attack on all the members.

    And, yes..  Putting Russian troops nose to nose with American troops in Poland, who is a NATO member, is an untenable and extremely dangerous situation.  

    As I think more on it, if Trump had withdrawn us from NATO, I'm absolutely sure Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine because, unlike now, we would have defended Ukraine militarily..  And, since that would have put our troops nose to nose with the Russians in Ukraine, that too is untenable.  And, I don't think Putin would have done that..

    So, maybe Trump was right..   Yes, the sound you hear is me choking when I said that.

    excon
    We were so close to being energy independent.  And then Joe Biden steps in and forces us to become energy dependent on countries like Russia for the sake of forcing green energy down our throats.  Yes, we need to convert to green energy, and the sooner we can do this the better, but every American is hurting now because of this, and on top of that we are now funding Putin's war against Ukraine.  And now look at slow Joe and the democrat party, trying to do an about face, and return to the Trump policies...whether it be oil production, immigration, etc...and attempting to do it as if it were his own idea.  Biden is a complete joke.

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