What should colleges do next now that racist Affirmative Action policies are no longer allowed?

MayCaesar

jack said:

Hello again, M:

I'm just thinking you're missing it..  When I say WE, the NATION will benefit from an educated public, WHO do you think the investors are?  We're the investors.  And WHO do you think will benefit from it?  The investors, of course.  And, who're the investors?  It's US.  

This isn't difficult.. 

excon

I have never heard of the type of investing where a goon with a gun and a badge shows up at your doorstep, robs you and then puts the stuff he collected into a stock. Could you enlighten me on this one? What is this type of investing called in economics, and where can I find the most successful investors of this kind?

Dreamer

Argument Topic: On a personal investment level of course you are correct. Yet, education is about making the world a better place.

@MayCaesar

Most higher education institutes are non-profit. The ones that are for profit tend to be quackademia infested multi level marketing schemes. Giving a $1000 to a poor person will probably net you little if anything in return because they simply cannot afford to pay you back.

MayCaesar

@Dreamer

What you are talking about now is charity, which is not what taxation is. If you want to invest $1,000 of your own funds into a poor person to make the world a better place - great, all the power for you. This is not what is being discussed here, however.

Dreamer

Argument Topic: A lot of tax is an investment in the nation's future. As well as a form of insurance.

@MayCaesar

Ever wonder why car insurance is required? The idea is even if you drive perfectly 99% of the time, you may mess up slightly in the remaining 1% and end up paralyzing somebody for life. In this case without car insurance the disabled person could sue you for both everything you are worth and everything you will earn in perpetuity.

As for taxation and investment helping the poorest is usually the best value. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Investing in pest control in a destitute school with mold, rats, and cockroaches can prevent expensive chronic illness including allergies and asthma. Then, medicaid ends up footing the bill.

"A recent ERS study examined the multiplier impact of a hypothetical $1 billion increase in SNAP benefits and found that this expansion of benefits during a slowing economy would increase Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $1.54 billion and support 13,560 jobs, including nearly 500 agricultural jobs (farming, forestry, fishing, and hunting). The expanded benefits would also boost income in the agriculture industries by $32 million."

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/july/quantifying-the-impact-of-snap-benefits-on-the-u-s-economy-and-jobs/

Taxation and giving to poor people increases gross domestic product and creates jobs. This is not even taking into account the detrimental effects of hunger and food insecurity that food stamps alleviates.

Dreamer

Argument Topic: A lot of tax is an investment in the nation's future. As well as a form of insurance.

@MayCaesar

Ever wonder why car insurance is required? The idea is even if you drive perfectly 99% of the time, you may mess up slightly in the remaining 1% and end up paralyzing somebody for life. In this case without car insurance the disabled person could sue you for both everything you are worth and everything you will earn in perpetuity.

As for taxation and investment helping the poorest is usually the best value. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Investing in pest control in a destitute school with mold, rats, and cockroaches can prevent expensive chronic illness including allergies and asthma. Then, medicaid ends up footing the bill.

"A recent ERS study examined the multiplier impact of a hypothetical $1 billion increase in SNAP benefits and found that this expansion of benefits during a slowing economy would increase Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $1.54 billion and support 13,560 jobs, including nearly 500 agricultural jobs (farming, forestry, fishing, and hunting). The expanded benefits would also boost income in the agriculture industries by $32 million."

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/july/quantifying-the-impact-of-snap-benefits-on-the-u-s-economy-and-jobs/

Taxation and giving to poor people increases gross domestic product and creates jobs. This is not even taking into account the determintal effects of hunger and food insecurity that food stamps alleviates.

Bogan

Two thirds of the Education budget in Australia's Northern Territory goes to the one third of students who claim "aboriginal descent, for a 90% failure rate in national NAPLAN testing.    The answer, according to the activist class?     (wait for it, wait for it)   "More money, more money, more money" to "close the gap" which never closes.     I think that it is reasonable to conclude that there are a lot of people making money out of pretending to educate people that they know have such low IQ's that they are largely uneducable.     A youtube video on Detroit claimed that Detroit's student examination marks were the worst in the USA while their teachers were the best paid.    In addition, the head of the Detroit  teacher's association was an African American man who was illiterate.

Barnardot

@Bogan ;the head of the Detroit  teacher's association was an African American man who was illiterate.

You see how you will never win a racialist argument. If you program your mind to make such tard observations then your always going to look at other races through shite tinted glasses.

So what if there spending all that money on trying to get the abos out of there rut. it was the limmy convicts and the governors who put them there in the first place and its going to take more than a generatin to get them out. They put the abos there so they now have to pay the money and even more to get them out. I reckon that your just scarred that those people are turning out to be a lot smarter and cultured than you are.

MayCaesar

Dreamer said:

@MayCaesar

Ever wonder why car insurance is required? The idea is even if you drive perfectly 99% of the time, you may mess up slightly in the remaining 1% and end up paralyzing somebody for life. In this case without car insurance the disabled person could sue you for both everything you are worth and everything you will earn in perpetuity.

As for taxation and investment helping the poorest is usually the best value. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Investing in pest control in a destitute school with mold, rats, and cockroaches can prevent expensive chronic illness including allergies and asthma. Then, medicaid ends up footing the bill.

"A recent ERS study examined the multiplier impact of a hypothetical $1 billion increase in SNAP benefits and found that this expansion of benefits during a slowing economy would increase Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by $1.54 billion and support 13,560 jobs, including nearly 500 agricultural jobs (farming, forestry, fishing, and hunting). The expanded benefits would also boost income in the agriculture industries by $32 million."

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/july/quantifying-the-impact-of-snap-benefits-on-the-u-s-economy-and-jobs/

Taxation and giving to poor people increases gross domestic product and creates jobs. This is not even taking into account the determintal effects of hunger and food insecurity that food stamps alleviates.

And what if I am okay with taking that risk? Who are you or anyone else to tell me that I must pay $200 a month (standard rate in my state) in order to secure myself from this insignificant risk? People are all too happy to stick their noses in others' lives and tell them how they should live them and what decisions to make, and that is neither charity nor even robbery: it is just authoritarianism.

"Best value" for whom? For the poorest? No kidding. What about those who have their property taken away from them by force? Again, we are talking about investing, not charity, and when investing in something, I want to have an expectation of return for me. If some poor kid getting better educated is a byproduct of that, then all the better, but so far you have only explained how that deal benefits him and not me.
When you go to a computer store, do you often see a clerk walk up to you and say, "Please buy this laptop. I will get 10% of the revenue and be able to afford a more upscale dinner on the date tomorrow!"? Would this suggestion convince you to buy the laptop? Or do you go to a computer store with a different purpose than making lives of the workers there better?

As for GDP and the number of jobs increasing, these are abstract population-wide metrics that have nothing to do with me. The GDP of this country growing by 10% means nothing if the value of my assets drops by 20% via taxation and inflation. As for jobs, I already have a very nice career and do not care if, in addition to a hundred million vacancies already on the marker, a couple more million appear.

I will ask you once again, Dreamer (or a Nightmarer, rather?): explain to me how 1) this is an investment at all, considering that I have no agency in it, and 2) how this investment is beneficial to me and not to some random kid in Detroit.

jack

MayCaesar said:

1) how is this an investment at all, considering that I have no agency in it, and 2) how this investment is beneficial to me and not to some random kid in Detroit.

Hello May:

I don't know how to say this other than, if you broaden your horizons, you'd SEE that educating a kid in Detroit benefits you in bumfuk, Mississippi.   Or, maybe you DO believe it, but just don't wanna spend money on the poor people of Detroit..  That's the heart of this issue isn't it, so why don't we talk about that?? 

excon

MayCaesar

@jack

You have yet to explain to me how it benefits me. This is a debate website, Jack, not "Here is a homework assignment for you" website. If you cannot explain how it benefits me, then you are wasting everyone's time asserting that it does.

As for me not wanting to spend money on the poor people of Detroit... indeed, I can think of a million other ventures where my investment is more likely to pay off. However, if someone can convince me that this venture is much more profitable than it seems, then my mind will be changed. The heart of the issue here is that you have no explanation: your sales pitch is crappy and investors are fleeing you.

jack

MayCaesar said:

@jack

You have yet to explain to me how it benefits me.

Hello again, May:

Yeah, I spose it's rather ethereal since it's never been tried before..  So, lemme try it this way.  We spent billions of $'s on an interstate highway system.  Do you think that was a profitable investment or wasteful spending?

excon

MayCaesar

@jack

It is not ethereal: either you can explain it, or you cannot. Empirically it appears that you cannot, hence your entire argument is based on emotions and feelings and not on logic. Well, I am not interested in emotion and feeling-driven arguments: as far as I am concerned, if you cannot explain something logically, then that something is hogwash.

I think that the interstate highway system spending was profitable in some respects and wasteful in other respects. Now that I answered yet another one of your questions, please answer my single question. This is a conversation, Jack, and you are supposed to reciprocate the effort, instead of constantly jumping around and dodging your opponents' requests.

jack

MayCaesar said:

@jack

It is not ethereal: either you can explain it, or you cannot. Empirically it appears that you cannot, hence your entire argument is based on emotions and feelings and not on logic.

Hello again, May:

Oh, I cannot explain it to your satisfaction, but explaining it, I am..

Seems to me, that ONE educated person in a society, (as opposed to NONE), would benefit that society.  If one accepts that premise, doing it to scale would only magnify its effectiveness..

I dunno if that's proof or not..  It's certainly no better than your assertion that an educated populous is no better for society than a bunch of dummies?

excon

MichaelElpers

@jack

Your argument falls apart though when you claim schooling is the education needed but also claim in your opinion 99.9% are uneducated while schooling exists.

What if I do not accept your premise that college does a good job of educating or that many of those receiving the education should not be wasting there time with it 1. Because they are not pursuant of a useful degree or 2. They just arent bright enough for the education to give them a leg up.

People already cannot make a proper determination of cost/benefit when taking tens of thousands in student debt using their own money.  What would make me think theyll be efficient spending mine.

Those with a strong work ethic or display a level of intelligence within there position should be recognized by businesses as worth the investment.
Businesses will identify growth in areas that have demand and non where no benefit is seemingly provided.

Then you also never answered how your proposal is a business effort that should be applauded by right wingers when your using the government to fund it.

just_sayin

Argument Topic: Reparations are warranted for those discriminated against by AA

Reparations are appropriate for every Asian and white student who were discriminated against by racist Affirmative Action policies.  These students should have been able to get into the colleges they applied for but where denied access for their race.  Unlike reparations for slavery, the people who discriminated against the students, and the students themselves are still alive.  These schools had a distorted view of justice, that took away people's humanity and individuality and reduced them to a subgroup so they could discriminate against them.  True justice goes down to the individual and is committed to justice for each person.  It does not show favoritism or partiality as those who enacted racist AA policies did.
Not only should universities pay reparations to Asian and white students who were eligible for admission but because of AA were denied, Black and Hispanic students who were callously placed in universities, that only cared about their diversity ranking, and allowed these students to flunk out, drop out, or had to switch to lesser paying majors because they were put in programs they were not academically ready for, should also be paid reparations for their college tuition.
Just like the whites and Asians who were discriminated against, these Black and Hispanic students were not seen as individuals, but as nothing but a number of a racial subgroup.  Their success was not a concern or factor, and they too are victims of racist academia..  

MayCaesar

jack said:

Hello again, May:

Oh, I cannot explain it to your satisfaction, but explaining it, I am..

Seems to me, that ONE educated person in a society, (as opposed to NONE), would benefit that society.  If one accepts that premise, doing it to scale would only magnify its effectiveness..

I dunno if that's proof or not..  It's certainly no better than your assertion that an educated populous is no better for society than a bunch of dummies?

excon

Do you think Adolf Hitler's or Joseph Stalin's education benefited their societies? Your premise seems to be indefensible.
A more defensible position would be that, on average, an educated person brings more benefit than costs to a society. Perhaps. This still says nothing, however, about whether putting a scarce resource into educating them is a good idea. If someone takes away $1,000 from me and wants to invest it into something afterwards, quite a bit of explanation need to be done in order to justify investing it into educating a kid in Detroit specifically (given that I live in Mississippi).

I have never made the "assertion that an educated populous is no better for society than a bunch of dummies". Where did you get this drivel from?

Sorry, Jack, I cannot resist making a little joke at your expense... It does not appear that the education you received has benefited a lot of people.

jack

MayCaesar said:

Do you think Adolf Hitler's or Joseph Stalin's education benefited their societies?

Hello May:

I hesitated to use a one person argument for fear you'd find ONE evil person to refute my argument..  You did not disappoint.. 

excon

MayCaesar

@jack

You make a bad argument - you pay the price. Talking about benefits of educating people, somehow the education you received did not teach you this simple truth. I would think that the basic tenets of logic are a prerequisite to any imaginable intellectual endeavor.

I remember the very first non-fiction book I read in my life. I was 6, and my grandmother borrowed a book on popular aviation and gave it to me. I understood, at most, 10% of the material - but I did learn pretty quickly that any flaw in the design of a part of a plane has a large cascade of negative consequences and possible casualties.
I repeat, I was 6 when I learned this.
An education system that does not produce adults who keep this in mind when making their arguments is not worth a penny.