Is Math Real?

Barnardot

@JulesKorngold ;s math a universal reality? The answer could determine 

Well I think you could be totally right here because there is such a thing as universal languages and no matter where you are in the universe you have to count some how. The aliens need to count how many criptonite rods to put in there flying sauces and how many aliens are going to fly in them. But I reckon that if they are any smarter than humans then they wouldn't have such a dum counting system like hours which has so many numbers its not funny. Like they discoverd binary a long time ago and its only recently that computer scientists realized that we were using the wrong number system all along. So its going to take a long time for people to start using binary all the time and not just computer nerds. Even the sloppies did a lot better using abacuses which made a lot more sents than all the dum stuff that the Iranian rag heads invented and thought they were so smart.

just_sayin

I've heard some philosophical debates about does math exist apart from space-time.  I believe that math is a conceptual concept, and while it may have a correspondence to many everyday problems, aspects of math have no spacetime correlation such as imaginary numbers, mathematical calculations using infinity in them, etc.  

MayCaesar

What do you mean by "universal reality"? Are you asking if 2+2=4 is a universal relation regardless of who is examining it? Then it is a universal reality. Or are you asking if the particular definitions and theorems that we use in our mathematics must also emerge in all other possible versions of mathematics? In that case, no.

Mathematics is fundamentally a study of logical relations between abstract objects. What objects you define and what axioms you assume completely determines what conclusions you will come to. If our and aliens' axioms and objects are different from ours, then our mathematics will strongly diverge from theirs - however, assuming we can understand each other and explain our axioms and objects to each other, we can also understand each other's mathematics.

The popular question - "Is mathematics discovered or invented?" - assumes false dichotomy. Mathematics is invented in that axioms and definitions can be posed somewhat arbitrarily (as long as they do not lead to logical contradictions), and it is discovered in that the consequences of those axioms and definitions are objectively determined and discoverable. We objectively prove the Intermediate Value Theorem by realizing that its statement logically follows from the set of axioms an definitions used in its formulation, but the definitions that come into it are constructs we make up. For instance, a "continuous function" is not something that exists in the objective reality in any way, but it is a convenient definition to use when working out properties of certain logical constructs, and it is helpful when modeling real world systems. In the real world there is no such thing as a "continuous function" - however, there are processes that are well approximated with continuous functions such as the average temperature of water in a reservoir exposed to constant stellar radiation over time.

Dreamer

Argument Topic: A hyper-reality could have arbituary rules.

One way to explain science is to explain what pseudo-science and religion is. By better understanding the opposite we better understand math. Take miracles for example they are a break in reality an ad hoc that makes no logical sense.

"An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God."

https://www.wordnik.com/words/miracle

If for example Dionysus turned water into wine. There is no scientific way in chemistry class to do this. In this sense math is broken. Ethanol OH has a different molecular structure than water H2O.

A hyper reality a dream or computer simulation just for starters could be full of miracles breaking math. A person cannot believe in math and God creating miracles at the same time.

John_C_87

Sorry, what did i miss...

Was working on understanding just how a Quadratic Equation solution works...It appears that it does not work well when bringing like terms together and moving terms to the same side of the equation without the principles of negative numbers which do not exist in all equations we attempt to calculate. No not all math is real, and some forms of mathematics are best guess solution but when we synchronize the facts in such a way that the answers are consistently recreated on their own accord. This action is forever unchangeable and is described as a constant of mathematical law.      

John_C_87

True mathematics is what trigonometry was always meant to be, a means to draw a map knowing where the star we see today are bound by nature to appear to others every tomorrow, of all centuries, from the now till the dawn.

theinfectedmaster

Argument Topic: Of course it is.

Math is absolutely real. Word math problems show how it can be used in our daily lives.

John_C_87

Crimes are real, doesn't mean they are enforced without legal prejudice?

All math is not absolute theinfectedmster.