Science or Religion?

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

There's not a single religion that can survive the 2 words "Prove it."

Sounds alot like your mind is made up.

JulesKorngold

@John_C_87
You got it.  Now tell us what you think.

MayCaesar

I suppose I agree with people like Jordan Peterson that claim that old religions and other ideologies embody a lot of collective wisdom that, in some aspects, is eternal. Marcus Aurellius' "Meditations" are as relevant today as they were 1700 years ago, and as long as you can read it with a discerning eye and take note of all the outdated things related to science, you can learn as much from it as you can from the best modern books on practical philosophy.

However, those pieces of wisdom can be acquired by a multitude of other means - without all the fantasy baggage that all religions feature, and without all the outdated stuff old books contain. There are countless books written by modern philosophers that contain much of the same information as Marcus Aurellius' writings, but apply it to the modern world. I do not need to know how to be happy while living on a farm and riding a horse every evening; I need to know how to be happy while living in a modern city and coding on my PC every evening. The Bible, the Meditations, the Vedas and the like can give you some general pieces of wisdom, but they absolutely cannot say anything about the specifics of the modern time - and you do live in this modern time, rather than being a spherical horse in a vacuum.

I do think that it is very useful to study ancient works in philosophy and religion, if for no other reason than to understand how modern ideas have come to be and what were their origins. Furthermore, ancient philosophers and theologists had very sharp minds, for they had to develop very complicated world views in conditions of extremely limited information and technology - so their words had a bite that modern words rarely do: if you read Plato and really try to understand his words, you will have as hard a time as trying to understand a modern proof from a cutting-edge research in algebraic topology - and if you do manage to crack his reasoning, your intelligence will blow through the roof.
However, all of this must be done within the proper framework. You must read those works critically, not faithfully. You cannot assume that everything Plato said was undeniable truth: first, it was not, and second, even if it was, without being able to prove it you have no business claiming it.

You absolutely cannot assume that the Bible is "the word of god". This notion is based on absolutely nothing other than claims made by other humans, who heard those claims from other humans still, who... There is no core fact or principle from which this preposterous assumption can be derived, and anyone who accepts it closes their minds for further inquiry. Which epistemologically equates death.

Among other things, religious practitioners embrace faith as the guiding epistemological principle. This is complete inversion of epistemology: if whatever you take on faith is true, then the concept of "truth" is meaningless and becomes merely a reflection of your personal preference. You are not much better than those people who define "woman" as "a person calling themselves a woman": you are just blowing smoke while saying absolutely nothing.

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

Sorry, I'm working on the Einstein field equation all 22 + parts so I can show you how the theory of General Relativity is a mathematical law of relativity when written as E ≈ Mc^2  

You know what I think already...lol

Barnardot

@JulesKorngold ; Religion has been proven to be a round for centuries and I can provide heaps of evidence if you really think its necessary. Also religious books can be proven like the Bible for example. And once again I can provide heaps of information that they exist. If your looking for a signed copy well thats another question.

With due respect the challenge put up in your post is very winnable as much as proving the sky is blue so I recommend that you might want to try putting up a debate that people with more than half the brain of a tard ameba would find more challenging.

John_C_87

@Barnardot

ah.................The sky is not blue it is an optical illusion created by light and atmosphere. So, it might be better said religion can survive establishing itself as easy as someone might look up and see a blue sky.

Barnardot

@John_C_87 ;ah.................The sky is not blue it is an optical illusion created by light and atmosphere.

ah......your totally wrong there because the sky being blue is not an optical illusion it is an optical phenomenon.

Just like God is not an optical illusion. God is a brain illusion.

See your just got to get the words the right way round.