What should we do about the despicable liberal response to Hamas unprovoked attack?

JoeKerr

Argument Topic: I think the 'well Israel has done bad things too' argument is a weak one.

@just_sayin
Absolutely pathetic statement to make. 
For decades, Israel has made Gaza a giant open-air prison. Now it wants to make it
a giant graveyard.
Are you so blind that you can't see what is happening in Gaza? Perhaps you are like the Israeli ambassador to the UK
who claimed in an interview on Sky News, that there was no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
I am quite sure that babies were killed during the Hamas attack on Israel, but I have yet to see any confirmed reports that 
some were beheaded.
I am also quite sure that when Israeli bombs rained down on residential areas, many babies living there lost more than their heads when the bomb
exploded scattering their body parts everywhere.
As I asked you before, which method of killing babies is acceptable to you?

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Hamas is the reason why the open air prison exists in the first place.

@JoeKerr

"Fast forward to 2006, and Hamas emerged victorious in Gaza’s elections against its rival, the Fatah party. It has been in control of Gaza since. No elections have been held thereafter and Hamas maintains political control." Lee Ying Shan

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/17/what-is-the-gaza-strip-and-who-controls-it.html

"The strip has been under a blockade by Israel and Egypt, restricting the movement of people and goods since Hamas seized control of the territory in 2007." Fatima Al-Kassab

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/10/1204873146/what-is-gaza-strip

I think free Palestine from Hamas is a reasonable idea to get behind. 

Barnardot

@just_sayin @JoeKerr ;Israel did not cut a baby out of a pregnant woman and then cut the child's head off.  Hamas did that. 

Hamas did nothing of a sort and you are 100% lieing since you know that very well.

You know very well that the sites you posted are extremist and fake and that they have been taken down several times Yes or No? Yes because not only did I find that out and posted the proof but so did others on this page.

Joe Biden declared last week that those extremist reports are untrue. Yes or no? Answer is yes. Did Joe Biden lose his job for being so wrong if he was? Annswer No.

Did you say that you were going to retract your malicious sick offensive allegation if it was found to be wrong? Yes you did. Did you then back track and say that you will only retract your sick allegations only if the scam extreme websites retracted there false and mis leading fake news? Yes you did.

Did you falsely accuse without any evidence whatsoever that a particular business hires illegal immigrants and ex prisoners? Yes you did.

Did you continuously claim that a proven and well known con artist who makes money out of TV shows was suddenly cured by prayer and that you also know that there is not one single peace of evidence to support it and that the doctors that you quoted actually confirmed she was a lier and a hoax? Yes you know that very well.

Are you a pathetic compulsive extremist lier who continuously lies to offend descent people. Yes you are.

Will you ever address the fact that you have been proven wrong time and time again.

No you wont because you are a compulsive dishonest offensive lier who will stop at nothing to prove your distorted sick views.

Bogan

@JoeKerr

JoeKerr quote  Actually. a literate and intelligent person recognizes that genocide is wrong.

All that your declaration tells me is that you think that you are intellectually and morally superior to those people who oppose you.     Your values and attitudes are not the result of critical thinking, they are simply the result of you trying to display your brahmin class identity, a class you think is superior to every other class in society.

JoeKerr quote   The opposition people are showing to Israel is a result of Israel's relentless killing of civilians, which now includes a couple of thousand children and
sadly it seems they intend to slaughter many more.

70, 000 British civilians died in WW2 as a result of German bombing.       2 million German civilians died as a result of allied bombing.    Do you condemn the Alles as being either as bad, or morally equivalent to the Nazis?      If not, why not? 

JoeKerr quote   Israel's acts of revenge for the murderous attack by Hamas demonstrate that Israel has nothing to learn from Hamas when it comes to brutality.

Revenge can be sweet.      And nobody is exempt from that sentiment.     As for brutality, if somebody wiped out your family, then I would understand your being brutal to the murderers who did that.

JoeKerr quote,    You present yourself as the big macho guy who thinks the answer to everything is to kill even to the extent of committing genocide.

If a group of people are implacably determined to exterminate your family, or at least your group of people, then the genocide of the people who want to commit genocide on your people looks reasonable to me.

JoeKerr quote  As I said earlier, literate and intelligent people don't think like that.

Once again, you are not thinking, you are virtue signalling and trying to show how intelligent you are by adopting the new values of the academic caste.       Did you know that the left once supported Israel to the hilt?     You could not display your academic caste affiliation unless you bragged to your buddies how you had worked on a kibbutz.   

  

JoeKerr quote    What does that make you?

It makes me a person who understands history, and who can think straight.    If you can’t manage that, then despite your belief that you are smart and morally superior because you parrot the slogans of the left wing activist class, you appear to be intellectually challenged.

Enough of the insults.  I will give you a history lesson.     Islam is a “religion” which it’s founder believed should be spread by the sword.    It is a warriors religion, which is why Ghengis Khan adopted it as the Mongol state religion, and it is why Hitler praised it.  As an excuse for aggression and  colonial expansion, it has much to recommend it.      Central to Islamic faith is the idea that wherever Islam has conquered, not a backward step can be taken.       This is identical to Hitlers’ belief that where a German soldier treads, that is German land forever.    

This was especially so with Israel.    Mohammad hated the Jews, because they would rather be executed than adopt his new religion which was simply a bastardised version of Judaism.       Since Israel has been the homeland of the Jews for 3500 years, then it is an insult to Allah that the Jews would return again after being expelled again, and set up a Jewish state again.    That is why the backward, religious fanatic Muslims will never stop trying to eradicate Israel.    They think it is their religious duty, and it will get them a nice house in the seventh level of paradise, where they can screw 72 self regenerating virgins into eternity.    

 Your advocacy of Muslim religious fanaticism is not the values of an educated literate person who can think.    It is the values of a person who may be bright, but, who thinks that he can display his supposedly high intelligence by simply siding with the brain washed academic caste, who change their allegiances according to which way the wind blows.       The Greeks called stup-idity caused by arrogance "hubris."

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin @JoeKerr ;Israel did not cut a baby out of a pregnant woman and then cut the child's head off.  Hamas did that. 

Hamas did nothing of a sort and you are 100% lieing since you know that very well.

You know very well that the sites you posted are extremist and fake and that they have been taken down several times Yes or No? Yes because not only did I find that out and posted the proof but so did others on this page.

Joe Biden declared last week that those extremist reports are untrue. Yes or no? Answer is yes. Did Joe Biden lose his job for being so wrong if he was? Annswer No.

Did you say that you were going to retract your malicious sick offensive allegation if it was found to be wrong? Yes you did. Did you then back track and say that you will only retract your sick allegations only if the scam extreme websites retracted there false and mis leading fake news? Yes you did.

Did you falsely accuse without any evidence whatsoever that a particular business hires illegal immigrants and ex prisoners? Yes you did.

Did you continuously claim that a proven and well known con artist who makes money out of TV shows was suddenly cured by prayer and that you also know that there is not one single peace of evidence to support it and that the doctors that you quoted actually confirmed she was a lier and a hoax? Yes you know that very well.

Are you a pathetic compulsive extremist lier who continuously lies to offend descent people. Yes you are.

Will you ever address the fact that you have been proven wrong time and time again.

No you wont because you are a compulsive dishonest offensive lier who will stop at nothing to prove your distorted sick views.

You are in denial - a stage of grieving. The beheaded baby story has been verified by Israel's IDF spokesperson and the morgue worker.  I have no problem in retracting my statement, but since it has been verified, it would be a lie to retract it.

See: 

EXCLUSIVE: Israeli morgue worker says horrors inflicted on Hamas's victims are 'worse than the Holocaust' including decapitated pregnant woman and her beheaded unborn child

‘I never expected to be confronted by what I have seen.

‘People whose heads have been cut off. Women standing in their night dresses woken up and shot. Faces blasted off. Heads smashed and their brains spilling out.

‘A baby was cut out of a pregnant woman and beheaded and then the mother was beheaded.
...
‘Women and children burned to charcoal. Bodies murdered with their hands tied behind their backs.
Colonel Rabbi Haim Weisberg said: ‘We have identified the bodies of 800 people already and we are working on a further 500.

‘But every day we receive more corpses. Last night we received 73 more bodies.

‘We see evidence of torture and savagery.

‘We have babies with their heads cut off. Bodies without hands, without legs, without genitals.

'Eyes were gouged out, a woman's breasts cut off and a daughter had her legs severed': Horrific details of Hamas massacre emerge as rescue worker recounts how entire families were slaughtered

Colonel Haim Weissberg, whose job is to identify the bodies of the victims of Israel's worst massacre, said he had seen babies with their heads chopped off, soldiers and civilians whose genitals had been cut off as well as women who were raped. 
'They filed a pregnant women, a terrorist arrives, he disembowels her, takes out the foetus, and in front of her, he comes out and massacres the baby before killing her,' Weisberg told a delegation of Jewish community leaders from France at the Shura military base.
'Everything is filmed. Babies whose heads were decapitated, soldiers whose genitals were cut off, small and elderly women were raped,' Weisberg added.  

Israeli Surgeon Confirms Numerous Babies Were Beheaded in Heart-Wrenching Interview With Dan Abrams

Dr. Rubinstein first explained that she was volunteering to help identify victims of the attacks. Abrams asked her to share what she saw, and the picture she painted was horrific:

I don’t know the numbers, but I mean, I was walking out of the night shift. I started Saturday night, Saturday at midnight between Saturday and Sunday. I started my shifts, which were 12 hours each one. And I finished my shift. I was walking out as they were, as people said, “There’s a truck coming with 150 bodies. Half of them are kids.” So, you know, we didn’t we worked in five separate rooms or seven separate rooms. So I don’t really know exactly how many kids, but I’ve seen babies that were beheaded. I’ve seen babies that were, that their eyes were taken out. I’ve seen mothers that they opened their stomach and tore their, torn out from a pregnant woman, tore the baby out from the womb. So, you know, I don’t understand how there is even any question about it. I’ve seen it with my eyes. People were burnt. People were, their limbs, the children, their limbs were cut off. I mean, it was unbelievable, really. I’m speechless. You know, it’s, I can’t describe it. And how can someone even ignore it and deny it now? How can they say that?

I'm still waiting for your retraction.  I've provided multiple eye witness accounts now.  

Bogan

Dear just-sayin.     I don't know why you even bother with that little troll Barnadot.      I don't know what his chronological age is, but I would judge his mental age at 13.   

MayCaesar

The arguments here in defense of Hamas are akin to the following situation: someone is sitting in his bunker, holding his son in his arms, and shooting at my family members with a sniper rifle, killing them one by one. Not having a better option, I take a bazooka, shoot at the bunker and destroy it. And now my neighbors start yelling: "See, you are not any better than him: you also kill others' family members!"

It is pretty strange how people assume that retaliatory violence is in essence the same as aggressive violence. That whether you kill in self-defense or in offense, you are simply a killer, and the morality of your actions can only be judged by the amount of killing and destruction your actions cause, and not at all by the context of your actions.

All of my questions about historical parallels, such as invasion of Hitler's Germany (which resulted in an untold amount of destruction and civilian casualties), sadly, are always left unanswered by these people... They will never outright say that the Allies were as immoral in their actions against Germany as Nazis were against them, but nor will they say otherwise due to the stigma around defending the Nazi regime and equating it to anything other than perfect hell.

Smells of dishonesty here, does it not?

Phite

Something doesn't add up here.  How did members of Hamas breach Israel's state-of-the-art security barrier?

Barnardot

@just_sayin @Bogan ;I'm still waiting for your retraction.  I've provided multiple eye witness accounts now.  

And there all fake as you know.

So when is Biden going to quit then after he and the entire White Hose dismissed the claims. And When is the Washington Post and Reuters going to close down because of there incompetency.

We know your not going to answer that and instead litter the page with your repetitive extreme spam links.

Theres no end to lying and miss leading from a compulsive lier is there> 

Barnardot

@Phite ;Something doesn't add up here.  How did members of Hamas breach Israel's state-of-the-art security barrier?

Simple. The state of the art was not as state of the art as the Israelis tried to make out. It was 10 years out of date and thats a long time with technology.

Hamas has better more up to date technology and that Yahoo guy is going to get kicked out when this is all over.

Bogan

@Phite ;    Something doesn't add up here.  How did members of Hamas breach Israel's state-of-the-art security barrier?

The same way that prisoners escape from even very high security jails.      With nothing else to do, they spend years and even decades collectively looking for a weakness in the system, and sometimes they find one.    

Phite

@Bogan

Yeah but, a weakness that allowed for a bulldozer to knock the wall down without notice?

Have you ever read anything on the nature of the security of that wall?  I'm thinking not . . .

Bogan

@Phite ;

 Sneery one liners are okay if you use them occasionally.      But if that is all you have, what are you doing on a debate site?     You may think heckling makes you look intelligent, but the opposite is true.   Have you read anything about Islam, or know your history?   I think not.   

Dee

@just_sayin

You're possibly the most dishonest person on this site lies trip so easily from your mouth , you too  arrogant to admit your lies when caught and no doubt you will invent a new lie to cover your latest lie.

Even the Israeli military disagree with your lies , so why do you persist? You have a serious problem as it seems you're a compulsive who heaps lie upon lie thinking people will swallow your nonsense.

BEHEADED BABIES” REPORT SPREAD WIDE AND FAST — BUT ISRAEL MILITARY WON’T CONFIRM IT

“It’s been about four days since this incredible and tragic escalation of violence and the level of misinformation — even disinformation — seems near unprecedented.”

Alice Speri

October 11 2023, 4:34 p.m.

This article includes graphic images and depictions of death.

THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES could not confirm a horrific claim that Hamas beheaded babies during a weekend assault, a spokesperson for the military told The Intercept on Tuesday. The claim went viral, becoming a headline-grabbing aspect of a massacre that left more than 1,000 Israelis dead.

A US administration official later clarified Biden’s remarks, telling CNN that neither Biden nor his aides had seen pictures or had received confirmed reports of children or infants having been beheaded by Hamas. The official clarified that Biden was referring to public comments from media outlets and Israeli officials.

Barnardot

@Bogan @just_sayin ;Dear just-sayin.  I don't know why you even bother with that little troll Barnadot.      I don't know what his chronological age is, but I would judge his mental age at 13.   

Well your got to realize here that were dealing with some one who is methodically disseminating hate talk and diss information. He is habitual and methodical and he listens to nothing but his dangerous extreme brain.

Just look at every one here calling him a lier and a total liability to society. He gets off on it since he is intent on being as cruel and harmful and wrong as he can. I have petitioned for this unwanted monster to be kicked off this site and now the hole site is joining in to get him banned.

Sure this site is open to free speech and when you come out with your racist crap it aint pleasant but this dufis is intend on taking extreme views maxed out over the top to uber new levels that every one will not tolerate. 

Barnardot

@Bogan ;With nothing else to do, they spend years and even decades collectively looking for a weakness in the system, and sometimes they find one.

Thats right and they found the weakness with the Israel security technology. It was outdated and Hamsa spent millions on better technology that out smarted them Those Jew Boys had no idea what was going on .

Phite

@Bogan

Whoa there buddy.  Slow down and take a breath.  All that's happened here is that you were asked what you know about Israel's security wall.  I'm thinking that you know nothing about it, and your attempt to ignore the question confirms it . . .

Why don't you just answer the question?

Phite

Barnardot said:

@Bogan ;With nothing else to do, they spend years and even decades collectively looking for a weakness in the system, and sometimes they find one.

Thats right and they found the weakness with the Israel security technology. It was outdated and Hamsa spent millions on better technology that out smarted them.

If only Israel had not allowed those shipments of technological equipment to enter into Gaza.  If only they had treated that kind of equipment like they do wood and cement! I'll bet they're kicking themselves for not including Israeli security-barrier-busting technology in their list of banned items.  Must have been an oversight.

Bogan

@Phite

Phite quote  Why don't you just answer the question?

 I did answer your question.    I pointed out that like maximum security prisoners,  the religious nutjobs who call themselves HAMAS (who you apparently admire and support for some bizarre reason) had nothing much to do except find a weakness in the superb Israeli defenses. 

Phite quote   If only Israel had not allowed those shipments of technological equipment to enter into Gaza.  If only they had treated that kind of equipment like they do wood and cement! I'll bet they're kicking themselves for not including Israeli security-barrier-busting technology in their list of banned items.  Must have been an oversight.

 You appear to be hiding your support for HAMAS religious nutjobs by suggesting that the Israelis are stu-pid?      The Israelis are anything but stu-pid.      The Jews are the most intelligent race on earth and they keep winning their wars because they fight smart.     They own a tiny country with absolutely no resources at all, except the collective very high IQ’s of their population.     With that high IQ they have transformed a barren sliver of land into one of the world’s most prosperous and technologically advanced democracies.     If the Jews had settled Australia before the British, Australia today would be the richest country on earth.   

 I support Israel because intelligent people should support other intelligent people who are fighting against religious extremism.       The basis for Muslim hatred for the Jews is because their prophet hated them for refusing to convert to Islam, and because the Muslims have the same idea as Hitler, who believed that where a German soldier tread, that was German land forever.       The “Palestinian” claim that Palestine belongs to them is just a fig leaf hiding a Trojan horse.    

Barnardot

@Phite ; I'm thinking that you know nothing about it, and your attempt to ignore the question confirms it . . .

Well you wood think that but I cant help it and nether can the others on this page talking about the same thing. And jesus if people answered your Big Boy wannabee questions they wood go in sain. Like for example these examples:

But if that is all you have, what are you doing on a debate site?
why do you persist?
Have you read anything about...?

Like Ya Full Ear Commandment.

Phite

Bogan said:

@Phite

Phite quote  Why don't you just answer the question?

 I did answer your question.    I pointed out that like maximum security prisoners,  the religious nutjobs who call themselves HAMAS had nothing much to do except find a weakness in the superb Israeli defenses.  

Superb Israeli defenses??  That's just silly.  You use the word "superb" to describe something that's ineffective against determined nutjobs with not much to do.

Anyway, you're doing it again, Bogan. You want me to accept your opinion that there are weaknesses in the security barrier between Gaza and Israel that people with enough time on their hands can easily circumvent. Unfortunately, that narrative is contrary to what we know about the security barrier.  

I've read about it and listened to someone familiar with it.  I'm wondering what you know about it that makes you believe that a bulldozer can knock it down without eliciting a quick military response from the Israelis.

ZeusAres42

@JoeKerr

Hey NomNom, been a while @jack was missing you a few months back.

ZeusAres42

anyway, you have two choices. Either become complacent and create another ISIS situation or prevent that altogether.

Dee

@ZeusAres42

You saying there's only two choices means your preferred two choices which doesn't work I'm afraid.

You like most others are playing this game where it's easier to target a whole nation of people ss potential  ISIS members and that the world is  united in a common goal of ridding the world of such.

It's a pretty obvious and much used tactic of bully boy nations who can justify their every atrocity using the old " you're either with us or against us,"

Here is a third choice.......

Why not get the f-ck out of Palestine ,that would work.

Bogan

@Phite

Phite quote   Superb Israeli defenses??  That's just silly.  You use the word "superb" to describe something that's ineffective against determined nutjobs with not much to do.

 Where are you going with this?    Israel’s defense industries are so advanced that even the yanks included Israeli technology in their F-35 fighters.     The Israeli “Iron Dome” missile defense is the wonder of the world, and it was not initially manufactured because it was claimed that such a defense was impossible to create.

 

Phite quote       Anyway, you're doing it again, Bogan. You want me to accept your opinion that there are weaknesses in the security barrier between Gaza and Israel that people with enough time on their hands can easily circumvent. Unfortunately, that narrative is contrary to what we know about the security barrier.  

 Yeah?   Then how about this?    Mossad has always been considered one of the world’s foremost intelligence agencies.   But as Winston Churchill once remarked, every noble organisation created by man eventually goes rotten because the careerists and mutual back scratchers always rise to the top and game the system for their own benefit.    Somebody in Mossad needs a kick up the arse.    Or better still early retirement because they probably think more about their perks than doing their job.

 

Phite quote.    I've read about it and listened to someone familiar with it.  I'm wondering what you know about it that makes you believe that a bulldozer can knock it down without eliciting a quick military response from the Israelis.

 Well, it didn’t.  But don’t worry, the Jews are the smartest people on planet Earth, and unlike the du-mb Arabs, and even dum-ber Russian generals, they learn from their mistakes. 

Barnardot

@Bogan@Phite ;; I'm thinking that you know nothing about it, and your attempt to ignore the question confirms it . . .Well you wood think that but I cant help it and nether can the others on this page talking about the same thing. And jesus if people answered your Big Boy wannabee questions they wood go in sain. Like for example these examples:But if that is all you have, what are you doing on a debate site?why do you persist?Have you read anything about...?Like Ya Full Ear Commandment.

Sorry about that Phite. I meant that post for the Bogan. Apparently the word Bogan is used by Aussies to describe some one who has half a brain and corks dangling from his hat and drives a pickup a round in full lock circles so they can attract the sheelas.@Bogan

Barnardot

@Bogan @Phite ;Israel’s defense industries are so advanced that even the yanks included Israeli technology in their F-35 fighters.

Der like sorry to appeal to the half a brain your using to say this but like der the Israelis made helmets for the F-35s in 2016. That does not exactly qualify the dum assumption that you were inferring that Israel has the best defence technology. 

In fact they have the worst and most badly outdated defence shield technology and they didn't figure out and update their defence against high tech drones that Hamas used. The Jew Boys didn't even know they were coming and they were too busy putting on there F-35 helmets waiting for a ground strike.

Mind you the Israelis also made high tech wings for the F-35 or rather they were going to last year. 

So I suppose your right. The Israelis used their helmets and the wings as sheilds to fend off the drone missiles being lobed at then from the sky. Like Der thats pretty advanced technology all right.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin @Bogan ;I'm still waiting for your retraction.  I've provided multiple eye witness accounts now.  

And there all fake as you know.

So when is Biden going to quit then after he and the entire White Hose dismissed the claims. And When is the Washington Post and Reuters going to close down because of there incompetency.

We know your not going to answer that and instead litter the page with your repetitive extreme spam links.

Theres no end to lying and miss leading from a compulsive lier is there> 

The claims that babies had their heads cut off by Hamas has been confirmed by the spokesperson for the IDF and the coroner where the bodies were taken.  You can stomp your feet, hold your breath, throw your self on the ground and have a hissy fit about it if you like.  That will not change the fact that the acts have been confirmed.  

Biden's staff said that Biden did not see the images, which Biden claimed he saw.  Biden, nor his caregivers, have said that Hamas did not cut babies heads off.  

just_sayin

Yet another leftist student has been arrested for making anti-Semitic death threats.  This time at Cornell University.   

CNN reports that:

Such incidents in the US increased nearly 400% in the days after Hamas attacked Israel October 7, the Anti-Defamation League has said, and antisemitism is reaching “historic levels” in the United States, FBI Director Christopher Wray told a Senate panel Tuesday. Pro-Palestinian vandalism reportedly has rattled Jewish communities in recent days in Pittsburgh, Minnesota and Rhode Island.

Unfortunately, Jew hatred is alive and well, especially on college campuses.  

John_C_87

@Dreamer
What should we do?

Multitask. One part of the tasking process should be to draft an addition to the American Constitution 1st Amendment describing a self-evident truth between freedom and liberty. This executive necessity hasn't changed for the goal of grievance filing for over a century in America.  One part of the tasking process should be to draft a addition to the American Constitution 1st Amendment describing a self-evident truth between freedom and liberty. This exsecutive neccesity hasn't changed for the goal of grievance filing for over a centery in America.

Phite

Bogan said:

@Phite

Phite quote   Superb Israeli defenses??  That's just silly.  You use the word "superb" to describe something that's ineffective against determined nutjobs with not much to do.

 Where are you going with this?

Firstly, I'm establishing your inability to describe Israel's security wall around Gaza.  How can you debate what you know nothing about?  You've bragged it up, but you're silent when asked to describe it.

Why is that?

Bogan

@Phite

Phite quote  Firstly, I'm establishing your inability to describe Israel's security wall around Gaza. 

 It is a concrete wall with guard towers, which I would opine, hardly needs describing.

 

Phite quote     How can you debate what you know nothing about? 

 What do you want to know about concrete walls with guard towers?      Where the hell are you going with this?     Is this some sort of loony leftist joke?  

Phite quote       You've bragged it up, but you're silent when asked to describe it.

I admire Israel for it’s high technology and it’s superb military equipment.     And another thing.   As a former Centurion tank crew member, I admire those heroic Israeli tankers in their Centurion tanks who in 1973, chose to die in their tanks battling 20 to 1 odds on the Golan Heights, rather than let your Syrian Army friends do to Israeli civilians you’re your HAMAS friends did on October 7. 

Phite

Bogan said:

@Phite
It is a concrete wall with guard towers, which I would opine, hardly needs describing.

Wrong!

Thank you for demonstrating that you don't have even an elementary understanding of what makes up that security barrier.  You didn't bother to research it, but you posted about it anyway.

Here’s what commander of the Kerem Shalom Battalion, who knows the area in detail, wrote…:

“Something here doesn’t add up to me!!! This is a mystery that I can’t find an answer to.

I happen to know how things work in Gaza and on the border. I was the commander of the Kerem Shalom sector (Rafih), I was in charge of the Kissuf sector, I know the perimeter fence very well, I know how the army works there. I was in the Shatti refugee camp in Gaza, I was in charge of the Jibaliya refugee camp, I would make ambushes on the fence and deep in the area. I met Gazans, ate and breathed Gaza.

Set alerts according to 3 levels of pressure. She must alert when she is cut. There are 24/7 forces that are responsible for arriving within a few minutes, if not seconds, to the point where there is an alert in the fence. Every day do at least one penetration practice. Each subdivision has a standby squad whose role is to increase the force in an emergency situation. Observations scattered along the border cover every inch of it. The female observers are champions in identification. They don’t miss. They detect movement even before it approaches the obstacle – day and night.

At problematic points (dead areas) they place a tank with observation and detection capabilities, and a terrifying firepower. In some cases snipers are deployed in the field.

Every day before dawn there is a “dawn alert” procedure. At this hour all the forces are awake (in this case also the hour when hundreds of terrorists entered Israel). The night shift alternates with the day shift. The commander of each force inspects the axis to make sure there were no infiltrations during the night. Trackers that move on the axis know how to recognize traces. They know who crossed the fence, how much and even when.

Each scenario has a clear procedure. For example, a procedure for infiltrating terrorists, a procedure for taking hostages. Everything is written in blood and has been proving itself for years.

There are several other layers of security that this is not the place to talk about. In short, we are talking about an obstacle that proves itself for years and years.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You rather simplified things here, didn't you?

just_sayin

Dee said:

@just_sayin

You're possibly the most dishonest person on this site lies trip so easily from your mouth , you too  arrogant to admit your lies when caught and no doubt you will invent a new lie to cover your latest lie.

Even the Israeli military disagree with your lies , so why do you persist? You have a serious problem as it seems you're a compulsive who heaps lie upon lie thinking people will swallow your nonsense.

BEHEADED BABIES” REPORT SPREAD WIDE AND FAST — BUT ISRAEL MILITARY WON’T CONFIRM IT

“It’s been about four days since this incredible and tragic escalation of violence and the level of misinformation — even disinformation — seems near unprecedented.”

Alice Speri

October 11 2023, 4:34 p.m.

This article includes graphic images and depictions of death.

THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES could not confirm a horrific claim that Hamas beheaded babies during a weekend assault, a spokesperson for the military told The Intercept on Tuesday. The claim went viral, becoming a headline-grabbing aspect of a massacre that left more than 1,000 Israelis dead.

A US administration official later clarified Biden’s remarks, telling CNN that neither Biden nor his aides had seen pictures or had received confirmed reports of children or infants having been beheaded by Hamas. The official clarified that Biden was referring to public comments from media outlets and Israeli officials.

Your article is dated October 11th.  The articles I posted are dated October 20th, October 24th, and October 27th.  The allegations that babies heads have been cut off were confirmed by the spokesperson for the IDF and a coroner.  Specifically identified was a baby who was cut out of the mother's uterus, and then beheaded, while the mother watched.  Also, the media were debriefed and shown pictures according to Martha Callum, Fox News.  

ZeusAres42

Argument Topic: tu quoque

Dee said:

ARGUMENT TOPC : TAKES TWO TO TANGO 

Dee

@ZeusAres42

ARGUMENT TOPIC: LATEST FALLACY Z IS GUILTY OF.....
Fallacy of Limited Choice (False Dichotomy)Forcing a conclusion by artificially limiting the available options. Most commonly it involves an “either/or” statement. Examples: “If you're against the war, you're not supporting our sons and daughters in uniform.”

Barnardot

@just_sayin @Dee ;The articles I posted are dated October 20th, October 24th, and October 27th.

And the articles that you are talking of came from extreme scam websites and you know that very well. They were exposed as scams and fake ages ago to you and you still refuse to even acknowledge what 4 people have revealed to you. You are a disgusting low life who spreads malicious liers and never stops.

Barnardot

@Bogan ;I admire Israel for it’s high technology and it’s superb military equipment.   

And why don't you try to use the non bogan side of your brain to absorb the facts that the Israeli technology is well out of date by 6 years with its anti jamming equipment for example. 6 years is an eternity for technology and Hamas has more expensive and more up to date jamming systems which is why the Israleis got court by surprise not only by the anti jamming technology but by the fact that Hamas got them from the air with high tech drones which funny enough flew over the dum walls and towers.

Supplied technology for F-35s indeed. What a heap of useless crap that is. Like air craft helmets and wings got them a long way when they got attacked. What a total joke argument.

Dee

@just_sayin

  
Argument topic : JUST sayin claims Republican News = FOX News is a credible source ...bwahahahahahahahaha.....

Fox News Channel has been described as a conservative media, and as providing biased reporting in favor of conservative political positions, the Republican Party, and President Donald Trump. Political scientist Jonathan Bernstein described Fox News as an expanded part of the Republican Party.

Bogan

Phite quote  Wrong!

Thank you for demonstrating that you don't have even an elementary understanding of what makes up that security barrier.  You didn't bother to research it, but you posted about it anyway.

Okay, it is not made a concrete, it is made of sugar toffee.     And your point is.......?

Barnardot

@Bogan ;Okay, it is not made a concrete, it is made of sugar toffee.     And your point is.......?

His and any body elses point is that it doesn't matter what the wall is made of because Hamas got them from the air and court them off guard because the Israelis had out dated jamming equipment.

Bogan

Barnadot quote   court 

It is "caught", dummy.    You think you can save the world even though you can not even write or spell.

ZeusAres42

@Dreamer

To answer this seriously, what we do in the interests of national security is give zero f*cks about your politics and religion and focus mainly only eliminating any threats to national security. 

ZeusAres42

Argument Topic: Argument Topic: tu quoque

Dee said:

ARGUMENT TOPC : TAKES TWO TO TANGO 

ZeusAres42

Dee said:

@ZeusAres42

Here is a third choice.......

Why not get the f-ck out of Palestine ,that would work.

Looks like someone has been living under a rock. This has nothing to do with Israel being in Palestine. This about a terrorist organisaiton that attacked innocent civillians; they drew first blood this time. Afther the last where Israel agreed to cease fire when they were in the wrong. 

And they keep attackign while Israel are showing some restraint givne then could destroy the whole nation if they wanted, thanks to the USA. 

We don't netiotiate with terrorists or submit to their and people like Dee's gasslighting tactics, never will, and never should. 

MayCaesar

Michael Douglas on the recent Triggernometry podcast made a very good point. He said that when a people is truly in distress, they do not cut off the invaders' children's heads. When the National-Socialist party was butchering Jews across Europe, there were no Jewish terrorists blowing themselves up on the streets of European capital cities, no chants, "Death to all Germans!", on the streets of London - there were only refugees. And when a people does take a defensive stance against the aggressor, they fight very differently: look at how Chiang Kai-shek's resistance fought the communist army, or how Israeli themselves fought a combined army of multiple Arab states at their state's inception, or how the Chinese fought the Japanese imperial army... They would not purposefully go after civilians, and go at great lengths to minimize civilian casualties, understanding well that, for one, in order to survive and prevail, they needed those civilians' approval.

The idea that what Gaza terrorists do is fight a defensive war is ludicrous. War against whom, kids going to school in the morning? That is no defense in any meaningful sense.

Say what you will about the tactics of the Israeli army or the approach to the general conflict by the Israeli government - Gaza terrorists are the same kind of people as the guy who shot up a concert in Las Vegas, or Breivik who shot up tourists at an island in Norway. These people are not defending anything other than their wicked beliefs. I am open to be convinced otherwise, but so far I have not seen good arguments against this simple point.

Phite

Barnardot said:

@Bogan ;Okay, it is not made a concrete, it is made of sugar toffee.     And your point is.......?

His and any body elses point is that it doesn't matter what the wall is made of because Hamas got them from the air and court them off guard because the Israelis had out dated jamming equipment.

I know, right.  It's like people are willing to believe anything necessary to make Israel's security failings look legitimate.  Who knew that an excursion into Israel for several hours after bulldozing their way through the security barrier would be so easy or go unnoticed?

On a related note, I wonder what will happen to Gaza's gas deposits?  Just kidding.

jack

Dreamer said:

For once this event is crystal clear that Hamas was the instigator, all the blame can go on them, this is 100% their fault.

Hello Dreamer:

Nahhh..  When you're FORCED to live in an open air prison, eventually you're gonna BLOW it up..  October 7 was the time. 

For the first time since Israel's founding, they're gonna LOSE..  I just hope that the loss doesn't look like a second holocaust..  But, right now, the WORLD hates Israel. 

excon

Barnardot

@Phite ;On a related note, I wonder what will happen to Gaza's gas deposits?  Just kidding.

Oh yikes thats worth a thought but you still wouldn't put it past those people because there desperate.

I think to many people try to right off Hamas as being some sort of poor wannabe terrorists who are only capable of chucking rocks and Molotov tales over the fence. And the perception is really rubbed in by countries like USA calling them an unlawful terrorist group. The truth is though that Hamas is an enormous organization that supports its community on many levels with aid and education and social infra structure as well as being a powerful political group which has enourmous financial backing from counties like Iran. There military is highly trained and highly equipped and israel was to busy and arrogant to ever think that Hamas could put one over them. But they did and there raid on Israel was a spectacular and carefully planned success. 

So if you want to put it down to one thing Hamas used one of the oldest and most effective tricks in the military manual. And that is the element of surprise.

Barnardot

@MayCaesar ;These people are not defending anything other than their wicked beliefs.

Okay there not angels but what makes there wicked beliefs any more wicked than the Jews wicked beliefs like for example sexually abusing and mutilating every single boy that is ever born. No wonder they grow up real strange with there dreed locks and funny hats and banging there heeds against the wall which doesn't do there brains any good at all. 

And hamas is no where near like that Nordic racialist dykeheed either because hamas is a huge highly organized organization who support there community socially economically and politically. And as those Jews suddenly found out Hamas military is very highly tuned and equiped and backed with heeps of money.