Do We Choose How We Feel?

Dee

We make our own minds up everyday on how we decide to feel and how we re-act otherwise you're like a cork on the sea tossed about by each and every wave that comes your way.

The exceptions are those who are suffering from mental illness which can be genetic due to chemical imbalances or those who refuse to take responsibility and blame anyone or anything for how they feel.

just_sayin

@JulesKorngold
You can't directly control your emotions.  Emotions are not solely governed by rational thought.  They involve subconscious thoughts, desires, issues, etc..  You can't make yourself feel a certain way or will yourself to not be sad or to stop crying.

That said,  while you can't directly control your emotions, it is my observation that emotion follows motion.  That is emotion will sooner or later follow what you truly believe or choose.  I may not feel like forgiving someone, however, I can choose to forgive because forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling.  At the time my choice and my feeling may be in conflict.  Yet, if my self-talk confronts my feelings,  and addresses the underlying reasons why I don't feel like forgiving someone, I can over time alter how I feel.  I can identify falsehoods I am telling myself and confront those false beliefs.  This over time will change how I feel.  

Barnardot

@JulesKorngold @Dee ;We make our own minds up everyday on how we decide to feel and how we re-act otherwise you're like a cork on the sea

So is that why you make your mind up each day to lie like a flat fish every day?

And tell big whopper fish stories?

Dee

@Barnardot

Poor old Barndoor back to accusing everyone of lying all because he cannot debate.

maxx

emotions are both biological and functional. At the base level, we can experience raw emotions based upon our senses. Many people make the mistake in believing that our thoughts control our emotions; however, what our thoughts do, is simply recall an experience which then triggers the emotion. Yet our emotions can be triggered without our thoughts. Our senses, what we perceive, can trigger an emotion, just by memory alone. most mammals have emotion, and no thoughts are needed to trigger one. @JulesKorngold

MayCaesar

In my experience, there is virtually no limit to human willpower. However miserable you may feel at the moment, you always have the power to keep moving forward, and your feelings change accordingly. It is believing that you have no agency that really kills you. When you are having a bad day, you can still feel fine; but if you believe that you having a bad day means that you are destined to feel bad, then you are done.

Read a bit on this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_O%27Brady He walked nearly 2,000 km across Antarctica, with no support, hauling a heavy cart with supplies behind him. It is unimaginable how persistent and stubborn and optimistic someone must be to even attempt, let alone complete successfully, such a feat.

The way I see it, if you break down under a weight lighter than that guy's, then it is, indeed, your choice. Choice to be weak and lazy. Choice to seek comfort in your tears and others' pity, rather than confront adversity head on.

maxx

most emotions are memory based. Our emotional control center is akin to a singularity. There is no actual emotion in this singularity, but a wave, that pours out so to speak, in which our thoughts, perceptions and previous experiences act upon; creating specific feelings. Emotions are learned, but the capability, the emotional center is with us at birth. Many claim that fear is an emotion in which we are born with; however fear is an instinct; a built in behavior, not an emotion. Yes you are correct in saying our thoughts and will power can overcome specific emotions. and also the opposite is true. One could listen to a happy song and feel sad; or listen to a sad song and feel good. Our thinking "can" over ride emotions. However i am not sure if that emotion is still behind the thoughts and we are just masking it. What do you think? @MayCaesar

Dee

Many claim that fear is an emotion in which we are born with; however fear is an instinct; a built in behavior, not an emotion. 


How many claim that fear is an instinct and how do they demonstrate this?


Many also say that  fear is one of the most basic human emotions that  we are born with.









@maxx

maxx

well dee, I do not know, and i am not sure anyone actually has proof. Emotions however are learned. Yet you raise the idea that fear is a rare emotion we are born with. However, fear is a biological function, and is part of our self preservation. We also put emotional attachments to fear. We can be happy over a scary amusement ride. we can be sad, lonely, worried, excited and a host of other emotions are used by humans in relation to fear.  Emotions are based upon subjective experiences, past behavior, social norms and individual differences. Fear is not based on that, it is part of our survival of a species. Fear is automatic and emotions are not; emotions are based on how we grow. Fear is also biological; emotions are a mental state.  Fear is not a mental state, just the emotions we apply to fear are mental. Fear also comes before an emotional content can play a part. It is immediate; as if you suddenly fell off a cliff; fear is instant; and then emotions kick in. So dee, you tell me, is fear an instinct or an emotion? @Dee

Dee

@maxx

ARGUMENT TOPIC  :Maxx delivers a lecture stating he knows that fear is an instinct and not an emotion after admitting..........

well dee, I do not know, and i am not sure anyone actually has proof.........

Right , but you stated .........however fear is an instinct; a built in behavior, not an emotion.........but you have no proof of this as you just admitted, right?



 Emotions however are learned.

Emotions are a combination of both nature and nurture.Fear can be innate or learned.


 Yet you raise the idea that fear is a rare emotion we are born with.

Where did I mention "rare"? Read above.


 However, fear is a biological function, and is part of our self preservation.

I know what fear is and what it's function is.

 We also put emotional attachments to fear. We can be happy over a scary amusement ride. we can be sad, lonely, worried, excited and a host of other emotions are used by humans in relation to fear.  Emotions are based upon subjective experiences, past behavior, social norms and individual differences.

I know all this what's your point?


 Fear is not based on that, it is part of our survival of a species.

You just said fear was based on that,or what are you actually trying to say? I know fear can be a trigger for survival , what's your point?

Fear is automatic and emotions are not;

Neuroscience disagrees with you as action tendencies associated with emotion are " implicit " in the sense they occur automatically.




emotions are based on how we grow. Fear is also biological; emotions are a mental state.

Fear is both innate and learned.




  Fear is not a mental state, just the emotions we apply to fear are mental

What are you on about? You're basically saying without a brain we wouldn't have mental experiences,and couldn't feel emotions seriously? 



. Fear also comes before an emotional content can play a part. It is immediate; as if you suddenly fell off a cliff; fear is instant; and then emotions kick in

Fear is both innate and learned

. So dee, you tell me, is fear an instinct or an emotion? 


Fear is both innate and learned so we are born with it and it can be learned 
.

So for someone who admits they don't know you sure do have a lot to say on the matter.

maxx

wrong, fear is not learned. "what" we fear is learned. There is a big difference. As well, emotions are learned; we are not born with them, just the capabilities to learn them.  i never said with out a brain anything. i said fear in instinctive and our emotions act upon that instinct. just like eating, an instinctive behavior, we apply specific emotions to the food we consume. If as you stated, that if fear is learned, then by all means explain how; without simply saying we learn new fears. fear is a basic raw form of instinctive survival, and what we learn is simply different things to fear, not learn fear itself.  i give a simple analogy, that perhaps you can even understand{kind of doubt it though] Take an phone and let us call it our fear center; it is nothing more than fear, our survival instinct. Now over the years as we grow, we develop new phone numbers. These numbers are not new learned fears; but simply new things we learn to fear. @Dee

Dee

Maxx say ...." Well Dee I don't know " than claims he does know.

wrong, fear is not learned. "what" we fear is learned


What are you talking about that makes no sense at all 

. There is a big difference. As well, emotions are learned; we are not born with them,


I'm afraid Neuroscience still disagrees with you also psychology which  you claim is science so now you disagree with them also even though you admitted you don't know ......WOW 


Fear is defined as a fundamental emotion promptly arising in the context of threat and when danger is perceived. Fear can be innate or learned. Examples of innate fear include fears that are triggered by predators, pain, heights, rapidly approaching objects, and ancestral threats such as snakes and spiders


You may copy and paste that as a reminder.


 just the capabilities to learn them.  i never said with out a brain anything. i said fear in instinctive and our emotions act upon that instinct. just like eating, an instinctive behavior, we apply specific emotions to the food we consume. If as you stated, that if fear is learned, then by all means explain how; without simply saying we learn new fears. fear is a basic raw form of instinctive survival, and what we learn is simply different things to fear, not learn fear itself.  i give a simple analogy, that perhaps you can even understand{kind of doubt it though] Take an phone and let us call it our fear center; it is nothing more than fear, our survival instinct. Now over the years as we grow, we develop new phone numbers. These numbers are not new learned fears; but simply new things we learn to fear

But you said you don't know and now you say Neuroscience and Psychology are both wrong do yo see how irrational you're sounding 


Here you go again., although what would Neuroscience and psychology know compared to you who admit you don't know but state you do know because as usual after admitting  your ignorance you think by saying the word " however" makes your nonsense sound.

Here you go again ........

Fear is defined as a fundamental emotion promptly arising in the context of threat and when danger is perceived. Fear can be innate or learned. Examples of innate fear include fears that are triggered by predators, pain, heights, rapidly approaching objects, and ancestral threats such as snakes and spiders.

maxx

anyone can post a definition and claim it is correct. i can as well. fear is a biological function not a mental one. do you understand that? fear is what triggers our fight/flight  system. Emotions do not do this. Emotions only apply themselves to fear. Do you not understand the different biological changes in the body of the differences between fear and actual emotions? listen, we can be afraid of flying, of the dentist, of crowds, or any multiple of things, but that is not fear itself; those are just objects we place fear upon. are you aware there are many animals without emotions? For instance, birds. Yet they have fear. It is part of our survival , a basic and ancient behaviorism that we evolved from the lower animals.  {{{when you try and tell me that some fears are learned, all you are saying is that we learn to fear different things; we do NOT learn fear itself.}}} Two essential aspects of fear: (1) Fearful behavior has genetic and learned components, and (2) our pets may show fearful behavior because we have taught them that without being aware.

We usually distinguish between rational or appropriate and irrational or inappropriate fears. The latter are called phobias, i.e., fears that are disproportional to the dangers in question, although some phobias do have a survival value.

Fear mechanisms serve the survival of organisms by producing appropriate behavioral responses. Hence, evolution has preserved it, subject to adaptive changes throughout time and according to the posed environmental challenges. From an evolutionary perspective, the particular fear behaviors of a species may be an adaptation that was useful at some point in the past. The distinctive responses to fear stimuli may have emerged and developed during different periods. For example, fear of heights, common to most mammals, has probably developed during the Mesozoic period; and fear of snakes, usually in simians, during the Cenozoic period. Claustrophobia, agoraphobia, and aquaphobia may also have their origins in evolutionary adaptations.

Predators and prey have different strategies to deal with threats. Their behavioral strategies evolved throughout millennia under the constant struggle for survival. Predators avoid dangerous stimuli by creating distance, escape being the favored strategy. Prey animals freeze preferentially when the predator is still relatively far away, but when distance decreases to a critical value, the animal flees. Thus, flight appears to be a genuine unconditional response to the unconditional stimulus consisting of a predator at a critical distance.

Fearful responses and their intensity seem to be a consequence of predisposing traits, resulting from many gene-environment interactions during the development of the individual. The latest research has established a genetic basis for fearful behavior. Researchers conducted studies with humans as well as other animals. In humans, researchers have been able to study the effect of genetics (family lines and twins) and environment (adoption cases).

@Dee

Dee

@maxx


Argument Topic : Maxx says he doesn't know now claims he does know , Maxx claims the fear a baby has of falling is not innate.

anyone can post a definition and claim it is correct

OK,  post a definition that disputes what Neuroscience and pschology says and prove its wrong ?


. i can as well. fear is a biological function not a mental one.

Fear is experienced in your mind Maxx making it mental please stop saying ridiculous things?


 do you understand that?

But you admitted you didn't know,  now you're proving it.


 fear is what triggers our fight/flight  system

Well done Maxx thanks for that., try reading this again.......Fear is defined as a fundamental emotion promptly arising in the context of threat and when danger is perceived. Fear can be innate or learned. Examples of innate fear include fears that are triggered by predators, pain, heights, rapidly approaching objects, and ancestral threats such as snakes and spiders.


. Emotions do not do this.

Do you see above the piece on innate fears , surely you must realise ignoring it wont make it go away 

Emotions only apply themselves to fear.

What does that piece of gibberish even mean?

 Do you not understand the different biological changes in the body of the differences between fear and actual emotions?

What are " actual" emotions?

 listen, we can be afraid of flying, of the dentist, of crowds, or any multiple of things, but that is not fear itself

Yet we can be afraid of them but yo7 said that is not fear , what are you even on about?

; those are just objects we place fear upon. are you aware there are many animals without emotions?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while we place fear on objects but that is not fear itself , what in gods name are you on about?

Now you want a debate about animals seriously?


The rest of your piece is just a piece on fear anyone can post a definition and claim its true , right? 

You just said right?

maxx

oh for gods sake, you are back in talking in circles.  get a brain. we apply our emotions to fear, not the other way around. Fear Instinct (thinkinsights.net)   i can not believe you are so dense as you can not understand sentences. people can be afraid of flying. now is flying the fear?? nope. the fear is the fear; and flying is what we are afraid of. you do not understand do you. the plane is not the fear, nor the flying. talk about dense.   You keep saying we learn fears; we do not. we learn new things to fear about. The new things we fear about are not fear itself. Understand yet? Let us pretend you love your wife. is she love? nope. she is just someone you learn to love. What about some bully whom you hate. Is he hate? no. just someone you learn to hate. we Let us say you are scared of falling off a cliff. is the falling the fear? no. We do not learn fear, we learn things to fear about. @Dee ; @Dee

Dee

@maxx

oh for gods sake, you are back in talking in circles

No I'm not and you know it , you said you don't know now you're saying you do , little do you realise how ridiculous and irrational you sound.


.  get a brain.

Good old Maxx back to hurling insults because he claimed babies fear of falling is not innate, also you refuse to say what " actual  emotions " are,  that's the term you used, right?


 we apply our emotions to fear, not the other way around. Fear Instinct (thinkinsights.net)

Fear is innate and can also be learned , that's a fact.


   i can not believe you are so dense as you can not understand sentences.

Maxx back to hurling abuse . I understand perfectly which is why I exposed your st-pidity in print and why you fly into your usual hissy fit

You say psychology and Neuroscience on the  sublect is wrong. because an imbecile like you says so.


people can be afraid of flying. now is flying the fear?

Yes , you no doubt think its a fear of heights responsible  or maybe spiders, right?

nope. the fear is the fear;

" The fear is the Fear" does that even mean?


 and flying is what we are afraid of.

You just said ....."and flying is what we are afraid of" .........after saying ......" Now is flying the fear"  so you're saying flying is the fear but not the fear .....ROFLMAO 



you do not understand do you

Does anyone ever understand the utter nonsense you type ? You've spent 6 posts explaining that fear of fyling is not fear of flying but fear of flying , you never fail to totally contradict yourself in every debate by actually disagreeing and agreeing with your own lunacy at the same  time.


. the plane is not the fear

I never said that you imbecile 


, nor the flying.

Yet its called fear of flying in Pschology and Neuroscience but what would they know?


 talk about dense.  

Yes I'm taling about how dense you are you keep confirming it 

maxx

yes it is called fear of flying, but flying is not the fear itself. damn. youre a bigger nit wit than i thought. fear itself is not learned; just what we are fearful about is learned.  Fear is one thing only, call it an instinct or an emotion; it is not many things. It is just one thing; fear. There are not many fears; just many things we are afraid of. it is still just one fear. Everything we are afraid of are just associations; ideas, and objects we are afraid of, but the actual fear aspect is just fear, and it is only fear itself.  if you do not understand this, or agree, then there is no way else to make you understand. 
@Dee

Dee

@maxx

ARGUMENT TOPIC: MAXX HAS DISCOVED SOMETHING CALLED " NATURAL EMOTIONS" BUT CANNOT EXPLAIN WHAT THEY ARE.

yes it is called fear of flying, but flying is not the fear itself

Maxx says fear  of flying is not fear of flying as its not actually a fear of flying in the first place ......ROFLMAO 


. damn. youre a bigger nit wit than i thought

I'm in good company with all in the field of NEUROSCIENCE  AND PSYCHOLOGY who agree a babies fear of falling is innate.

. fear itself is not learned;

Neuroscience,  Psychology and I disagree as we believe fear is both innate and learned , sorry it cannot be dumbed down any more for you


just what we are fearful about is learned. 

Even a babies innate fear of flying ? The world's best psychologists and Neuroscienctists must be pulling their collective hair out that an American Bible thumping imbecile called Maxx who said he didn't  know now apparently does know and has has just corrected them.


Mad Maxx won't explain what their piece of nonsense he posted even means ....." The fear is the fear" .........LOL .....Mad Maxx seriously said that .

maxx

fine. go away. i will wait for some one with more intelligence to answer; perhaps barndolt, or maybe mickey will come back. @Dee

Dee

@maxxfine


. go away. i will wait for some one with more intelligence to answer; perhaps barndolt, or maybe mickey will come back.

Well you 3 would be well matched., I predict a 3 way tie with any future debates between you 3 
resulting in one imbecile cancelling the others out.

When you actually get to it could you let me know when you 3 stooges decide to play with each other?

Let's re -cap what has you flying into your usual rage.......

Maxx claimed the leading Psychologists and Neuroscientists are wrong when they say a babies fear of falling is innate.

Maxx claimed he didn't know then attempted to saiy he actually did know 

Maxx claimed there are emotions and" actual emotions"  but refuses to explain the difference because  he cannot 

Maxx claimed there  is actually no fear of flying but only a fear of flying that actually isn't a fear of flying 

Maxx "brilliantly " stated " the fear is the fear" but cannot explain what that piece of nonsense means .

Conclusion  : Maxx is seriously mentally unwell which seems to  exacerbate his genetic imbecilty.

maxx

it is you dee who has the mental issues, not me. i am tired of you asking the same questions over and over and you can not understand the answers. One last time. if you can not understand, then go troll elsewhere. fear; call it an emotion or an instinct or both, is prevalent at birth. As we grow we can have phobias or be afraid of certain things. those things are not fear. We only have one fear and we are born with it, and everything else that we learn to be afraid of, stems from the one instinct or emotion that we are born with. One last analogy and i am done with you. Take a bottle of aspirin. The bottle is the fear instinct we are born with, and the pills are what we learn to be afraid of as we grow. Now tell me, which is the fear; the bottle  we are born with, or the pills we learn to be afraid of?  If you return to your bull crap answers, then go live up to your troll award else where. @Dee

Dee

@maxx

It is you dee who has the mental issues, not me.

Your denials are not very convincing. 


 i am tired of you asking the same questions over and over and you can not understand the answers.

Apparently not tired enough to keep away,  I listed out what you cannot answer stop pretending otherwise.


One last time. if you can not understand, then go troll elsewhere.

Understand what? What is it you want me to understand? Asking clarifying questions is not trolling so you've made false accusations of trolling,  you've tried insults , so maybe instead you could try answering questions?


 fear; call it an emotion or an instinct or both, is prevalent at birth

You said you didn't know,  then you said it wasn't an emotion,  now it is an emotion maybe or could be an instinct or maybe both , 
 
you also said it wasn't innate now it appears it is.


. As we grow we can have phobias or be afraid of certain things. those things are not fear

So to be clear fearof spiders is not a fear , do carry on I'm listening .


. We only have one fear and we are born with it, and everything else that we learn to be afraid of, stems from the one instinct or emotion that we are born with

What's the name of the 1 fear we are born with? 

. One last analogy and i am done with you. Take a bottle of aspirin

That's acrtually sound advice after listening to you.

The bottle is the fear instinct we are born with, and the pills are what we learn to be afraid of as we grow.

What in sweet Jehovahs name are you on about?


Now tell me, which is the fear; the bottle  we are born with, or the pills we learn to be afraid of? 

You're certifiably insane Maxx , you make absolutely no sense 


 If you return to your bull crap answers,

I asked you several questions you cannot answer the fault is hardly mine,

then go live up to your troll award else where

But the only one trolling here is you as you've  hurled insults and accusations all because you haven't the ability to defend your ridiculous " thesis" 


Here are the questions you're still refusing to answer , throwing your toys out of the pram is no substitute for avoiding answering what I've asked several times...........


Maxx claimed the leading Psychologists and Neuroscientists are wrong when they say a babies fear of falling is innate.

Maxx claimed he didn't know then attempted to saiy he actually did know 

Maxx claimed there are emotions and" actual emotions"  but refuses to explain the difference because  he cannot 

Maxx claimed there  is actually no fear of flying but only a fear of flying that actually isn't a fear of flying 

Maxx "brilliantly " stated " the fear is the fear" but cannot explain what that piece of nonsense means .

maxx

kind of what i figured your reply would be. well, go ahead and continue believing that the things we are afraid of is the fear itself. bye troll. @Dee

jack

Argument Topic: Some of us are in control of their emotions.. Some of us aren't.

JulesKorngold said:

Do We Choose How We Feel?

Hello Jules:

Some of us are in control of our emotions..  Some of us aren't.  That doesn't happen haphazardly.  It's a skill one learns - or not.  Truly..  There's even a machine that measures it.

excon

Dee

@maxx

kind of what i figured your reply would be.

Yes which is why you're sulking as you knew I would question your nonsense, and your only response is .....sulk.


well, go ahead and continue believing that the things we are afraid of is the fear itself

Thanks for letting people who are afraid of flying  believe they have a fear of flying, imwill pass your permissions on.


. bye troll. 

Translation from Maxx to English......don't dare ask Maxx to clarify his gibberish or he will fly into a rage , hurl insults , accuse you of trolling and finally .....SULK 

MayCaesar

maxx said:

most emotions are memory based. Our emotional control center is akin to a singularity. There is no actual emotion in this singularity, but a wave, that pours out so to speak, in which our thoughts, perceptions and previous experiences act upon; creating specific feelings. Emotions are learned, but the capability, the emotional center is with us at birth. Many claim that fear is an emotion in which we are born with; however fear is an instinct; a built in behavior, not an emotion. Yes you are correct in saying our thoughts and will power can overcome specific emotions. and also the opposite is true. One could listen to a happy song and feel sad; or listen to a sad song and feel good. Our thinking "can" over ride emotions. However i am not sure if that emotion is still behind the thoughts and we are just masking it. What do you think? @MayCaesar

I will be frank: I have very little interest in all this metaphoric stuff. I am only interested in the raw mechanics of the process, in how it works in practice and how one can use it to their advantage.

The question of interest here is: "If you are intent on feeling good in situation X, can you make it happen regardless of what X is?" To me, the answer is resounding "yes", and it is as easy as making this decision and committing to it. Here is the rubber though: in most cases you do not want to make this decision, because feelings are "sticky". When you are feeling angry, part of you wants to stay angry, because you have already invested in that anger and got certain benefits from it - increased energy levels, ability to confront your fears, et cetera - anger was developed evolutionarily for a reason and it used to serve humans well when they lived in a more primal environment. If you do not become angry at a member of your tribe that jeopardized its well-being and just let it slide, and keep doing it, then eventually your tribe will die out.

But evolutionarily developed instincts are not absolute. With enough determination you can override them, or, if all else fails, act against them. My experience of running ultramarathons past the breaking point taught me that at least in 99.9999% cases giving in to your emotions is a choice. If you are a stubborn bastard, then you will not break down until your body physically shuts down. You will freaking walk 1,000 miles with a broken bone if you decide that you absolutely have to.

Or you can hear an insult and fold, because you decided to let your emotions to take control over you at the slightest push... It is absolutely a choice. Whether emotions affect your thoughts, or whether it is the other way around, or whether it is both - is kind of irrelevant in the light of the fact that, practically speaking, your never have to let your emotions affect your actions.

maxx

simple pretense may. It is like saying a size 12 shoe fit regardless how it does not. If a very close love one suddenly was murdered, are you able to suddenly decide you are happy about it? Let us assume you intently hate someone; are you able to suddenly over ride the hate and love the person? You are not changing the actual emotional content; You are simply over riding the emotion with your thoughts and reason. @MayCaesar