Should it be illegal for schools that don't have a flexible schedule to start before 8:30 AM?

theinfectedmaster

Argument Topic: Yes it should because it deprives kids of sleep.

I think it should be illegal to start before 8:30 AM because it deprives them of sleep. I especially think for adolescents that school needs to start at 8:30 AM or beyond that because adolescents are going through so many changes, and they're especially have growth spurts at that age, which your body produces a lot of growth hormones when you sleep, so you definitely need that sleep, when you're going through a growth spurt.

Factfinder

Any proof earlier start times deprive anyone of sleep?  

theinfectedmaster

@Factfinder ;https://www.choc.org/news/do-early-school-start-times-put-students-health-at-risk-one-study-says-yes/

just_sayin

I don't think government should regulate this.  In Cuba, the school day started much earlier than 8:30 am.  That's because in Havana they had to run 2 school shifts.  One group of kids would go from 7 - 12, and another from 12:30 - 5:30 pm.  each day.  It keep them from having to build more schools.

Different areas will have different needs or concerns.  School districts are aware of the research.  Let each district decide for itself.  I have a problem with people who always assume they know better how someone else should live their life.  They always assume that their knowledge is the superior knowledge to someone else's, even if that someone else has to live with the consequences of the decision.  And as is so often the case, the one making the decision, doesn't have to live according tot he decision.  

Factfinder

One study? @theinfectedmaster

The assertion that teenagers CAN"T go to sleep before 11:pm is subjective. When I was a teenager my parents sent me to bed at 10:00 on school nights and I was in class ready to go at 8:10 the next morning. Except went I cut school anyway.

theinfectedmaster

@just_sayin I think the government should because kids deserve the right to have good health and good sleep. I'm for more government regulation in society if it helps to protect human rights, which is why I'm a liberal.

theinfectedmaster

@Factfinder I usually got the recommended sleep needed for teenagers, although a lot of people at my school didn't

theinfectedmaster

@just_sayin The American Academy of Pediatrics actually says that middle schools and high shouldn't start before 8:30 AM, and I agree.

theinfectedmaster

Factfinder said:

One study? @theinfectedmaster

The assertion that teenagers CAN"T go to sleep before 11:pm is subjective. When I was a teenager my parents sent me to bed at 10:00 on school nights and I was in class ready to go at 8:10 the next morning. Except went I cut school anyway.

@Factfinder I was actually researching that the hormones teenagers have when going through puberty can affect their sleep, so I feel like we need to take this move.

MayCaesar

theinfectedmaster said:

I think it should be illegal to start before 8:30 AM because it deprives them of sleep. I especially think for adolescents that school needs to start at 8:30 AM or beyond that because adolescents are going through so many changes, and they're especially have growth spurts at that age, which your body produces a lot of growth hormones when you sleep, so you definitely need that sleep, when you're going through a growth spurt.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever. If a child has to be at school 30 minutes earlier, he can just go to bed 30 minutes earlier and get exactly as much sleep. In order to be at school, say, at 7 am, assuming the school is relatively close, a kid will not have to wake up any earlier than 6 am - and going to bed at 10 pm (which is fairly late for little kids) will give him 8 hours of quality sleep which is more than sufficient for virtually everyone.

Nowadays I wake up at 4-4:30 am. The idea of having to be somewhere before 8:30 being unfair is completely alien to me. By 8:30 usually I will have already done 2 hours of running and lifting weights, had a good meal, done some reading and put in a bit of work. Do you guys have your front door automatically locked until 8:15 am or something?

theinfectedmaster

@MayCaesar The hormones from puberty can make it hard for a person to fall asleep, especially if you're female so yes schools do need to start later for adolescents. Plus, I was reading a study, and they're actually saying that teens might need more sleep than even elementary school kids.

MayCaesar

@theinfectedmaster

Honey, when you mark my comment as "fallacy", please be so kind as to, at least, respond to the actual comment and point out what is wrong in it. The time one wakes up at is completely independent from the amount of time one spends asleep. I can wake up at 2 am, yet get 10 hours of sleep if I go to bed at 4 pm.

just_sayin

theinfectedmaster said:

@just_sayin I think the government should because kids deserve the right to have good health and good sleep. I'm for more government regulation in society if it helps to protect human rights, which is why I'm a liberal.

And yet, in the homeland of Marxism, is where your theory is disproven.  There is no evidence that the kids in the early morning shift do worse than the kids in the late day shift do.  You would expect that.  Apparently, you aren't as wise as the kids who get up early and go to school.  That's a problem with liberals.  They always think they know better than the people their ideas impact what should be done.  

theinfectedmaster

@MayCaesar The part where you're saying it makes no sense is a fallacy.

theinfectedmaster

@just_sayin No liberals are better about protecting and promoting human rights than conservatives are. Conservatives are fascists.

just_sayin

theinfectedmaster said:

@just_sayin No liberals are better about protecting and promoting human rights than conservatives are. Conservatives are fascists.

I'm pretty sure you don't know what a fascist really is.  Liberal Democrats voted AGAINST the born alive protection bill that ensures newborn babies born from a botched abortion the same health protections as babies born other ways at the same gestational age.  When you vote against giving newborn babies essential medical help you aren't concerned about human rights at all.  Leftists lamented the Supreme Court decision ending racist Affirmative Action policies in college admissions.  Rather than repent of their support of racism, they doubled down on their commitment to discriminate.  That's not promoting human rights, but denying Asian students their rights.  Leftists have fought against educational freedom for poor Black students chained to bad Democrat run public schools.  We all know how it helps teacher unions, and politicians who get lots of money from teacher unions to keep poor Black kids trapped in bad schools, but tell me, how does it help that poor Black child?  Not very humanly of them is it?

MayCaesar

theinfectedmaster said:

@MayCaesar The part where you're saying it makes no sense is a fallacy.

I explained exactly why, in my view, it makes no sense. You have not addressed the argument at all. Please address it.

Factfinder

@theinfectedmastertheinfectedmaster said:

@just_sayin No liberals are better about protecting and promoting human rights than conservatives are. Conservatives are fascists.

Like the right for parents to raise their children because they're more qualified than left wing ideologs?

theinfectedmaster

@MayCaesar It makes sense because hormones during puberty can affect your sleep.

MayCaesar

theinfectedmaster said:

@MayCaesar It makes sense because hormones during puberty can affect your sleep.

What kind of response is this? You have not addressed my argument at all. To remind you, my argument rests on the fact that the duration of sleep is independent from the time of waking up.