Man is inherently evil

maxx

well, first i am not scoffing. I am simply showing facts. You are the one who refuses to believe in the history of your own religion. Look what the early church did to the scriptures. Did you even bother to read the previous link simply because you can not accept its own validity? I am not making this up. look at the historical evidence. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; I don't follow a religion...I have entered into a personal relationship with the One who created me and knows me intimately yet continues to love me...this by faith. You seek to disparage the Truth of Scripture or obfuscate its veracity through alleged "changes" while the message is immutable...you're a loser in life and in eternity if you continue on your current path of atheism and servitude to the devil.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx The books of the Old Testament were written from approximately 1400 BC to 400 BC. The books of the New Testament were written from approximately AD 40 to AD 90. So, anywhere between 3,400 and 1,900 years have passed since a book of the Bible was written. In this time, the original manuscripts have been lost. They very likely no longer exist. Since the time the books of the Bible were originally written, they have been copied again and again by scribes. Copies of copies of copies have been made. In view of this, can we still trust the Bible?

The Holy Scriptures are God-breathed and therefore inerrant (2 Timothy 3:16–17; John 17:17). Of course, inerrancy can only be applied to the original manuscripts, not to the copies of the manuscripts. As meticulous as the scribes were with the replication of the Scriptures, no one is perfect. Through the centuries, minor differences arose in the various copies of the Scriptures. The vast majority of these differences are simple spelling variants (akin to American neighbor versus British neighbour), inverted words (one manuscript says “Christ Jesus” while another says “Jesus Christ”), or an easily identified missing word. In short, over 99 percent of the biblical text is not questioned. Of the less than 1 percent of the text that is in question, no doctrinal teaching or command is jeopardized. In other words, the copies of the Bible we have today are pure. The Bible has not been corrupted, altered, edited, revised, or tampered with.

Any unbiased document scholar will agree that the Bible has been remarkably well-preserved over the centuries. Copies of the Bible dating to the 14th century AD are nearly identical in content to copies from the 3rd century AD. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, scholars were shocked to see how similar they were to other ancient copies of the Old Testament, even though the Dead Sea Scrolls were hundreds of years older than anything previously discovered. Even many hardened skeptics and critics of the Bible admit that the Bible has been transmitted over the centuries far more accurately than any other ancient document.

There is absolutely no evidence that the Bible has been revised, edited, or tampered with in any systematic manner. The sheer volume of biblical manuscripts makes it simple to recognize any attempt to distort God’s Word. There is no major doctrine of the Bible that is put in doubt as a result of the inconsequential differences among the manuscripts.

Again, the question, can we trust the Bible? Absolutely! God has preserved His Word despite the unintentional failings and intentional attacks of human beings. We can have utmost confidence that the Bible we have today is the same Bible that was originally written. The Bible is God’s Word, and we can trust it (2 Timothy 3:16; Matthew 5:18).  See "GotQuestions" Has the Bible been corrupted?

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;   "Modern People" are failing...our Nation is dying because of you and the demonic ideology you espouse...Progressives...self-proclaimed "intellectuals" are horrible people, these are atheists - secular humanists, who murder babies, promote sexual perversion, inspire and tolerate crime and suffering due the "do-gooder" tolerant insanity...you are wicked people who do not belong in the United States...this forum is replete with servants of the devil

I think it is only your brain that is dying.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  There in lies your eternal problem...you don't "think"...only that which your father allows you to think.

maxx

have you even read the dead sea scrolls? What i am saying to you, is that anyone who is very religious should understand the true history of their own religion; NOT just the aspects of history that they prefer, but ALL of it, including the changes, and earlier beliefs. I am not stating here, that the overall theme of the bible is different, but there are enough differences that many parts of todays bible does not reflect upon the original, and the original should be as much; if not more closer to the actual word of god than whatever bible you are reading today. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; I've been to Qumran...I've talked with archeologists in the field...the scrolls are amazing copies of extant manuscripts...even the most arduous skeptics were taken aback by their accuracy.

Excerpt:

With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we now had manuscripts that predated the Masoretic Text by about one thousand years. Scholars were anxious to see how the Dead Sea documents would match up with the Masoretic Text. If a significant amount of differences were found, we could conclude that our Old Testament Text had not been well preserved. Critics, along with religious groups such as Muslims and Mormons, often make the claim that the present day Old Testament has been corrupted and is not well preserved. According to these religious groups, this would explain the contradictions between the Old Testament and their religious teachings.

After years of careful study, it has been concluded that the Dead Sea Scrolls give substantial confirmation that our Old Testament has been accurately preserved. The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. Hebrew Scholar Millar Burrows writes, “It is a matter of wonder that through something like one thousand years the text underwent so little alteration. As I said in my first article on the scroll, ‘Herein lies its chief importance, supporting the fidelity of the Masoretic tradition.'”{6}

A significant comparison study was conducted with the Isaiah Scroll written around 100 B.C. that was found among the Dead Sea documents and the book of Isaiah found in the Masoretic text. After much research, scholars found that the two texts were practically identical. Most variants were minor spelling differences, and none affected the meaning of the text. https://probe.org/the-dead-sea-scrolls/

maxx

Do you even understand then, that not everyone goes to heaven(new jerusalem) or to hell; that even according to the bible that you have; that there are still people alive on earth AFTER all is said and done, after new jerusalem comes down to earth? @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ;  Don't confuse the Millennial Kingdom and the New Jerusalem. The Millennial Kingdom, which will be initiated relatively soon, will manifest here, upon this Earth in present day Israel.

The New Jerusalem is the eternal Kingdom that will be present upon a New Earth within a New Heaven.

Subsequent Messiah's Millennial Reign, Satan will be released from confinement and deceive the Nations here upon this Earth once again. The Father will subdue Satan and those rebellious Nations will be destroyed by fire; then, the Judgment of the Condemned will commence (Revelation 20:10-15). Subsequent the Judgment of the Condemned, this Earth and our present Heavens will be consumed by fire, the Earth will be purified and a New Earth and a New Heaven will manifest in their place...it is upon this New Earth that the New Jerusalem, the Eternal City, will be placed and the redeemed in Jesus Christ will serve Jesus there in resurrected bodies, imperishable, forever (Revelation 20-22). 

maxx

wrong. it clearly states, AFTER the people who are not found in the book of life who are cast into the lake of fire; after, new jerusalem has come, there will still be others on the earth who are not allowed into the gates because they are sinful and evil. considering the changes probably made in your bible, the wording may be different, but in rev 21 chapter 27, there are still people outside of new jerusalem who can not enter and who are not in hell. There is the tree of life whose fruit is to heal the nations; and nations mean people as well.You see rick; that is the trouble with small changes in the bible. As well as interpretations People change the wording because they see something that should not be in the bible as it is written. In most earlier bible it clearly means there are people still alive at the moment of new jersualem and after the second death. .Revelation 22 - TYN - Bible Study Tools  here is the chapter in the tynsdale bible. this is closer to the original works. what you call the millennium is actually the thousand year rein of christ, which is BEFORE the wicked are judged. no where in the bible does it state that new jerusalem is the millennium city.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;  There in lies your eternal problem...you don't "think"...only that which your father allows you to think.

One who has never did any thinking would not know what real thinking looks like. You cannot say a sentence without referencing some biblical verses or characters... Your brain is completely inert, running a very primitive programming that resulted from you reading one fantasy book to death.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Much conjecture concerning those outside the gates...The New Jerusalem is not placed upon this current Earth in its defiled condition but only after the purification by fire. Much conjecture about those living outside the New Jerusalem but these are not those who have been judged due unbelief in Messiah and cast into the Lake of Fire as they have died "the second death" eternally...they are no more. Those who are currently in Hades-Torments will be resurrected into bodies of corruption and stand before the Throne of Messiah to be Judged in accordance with their works and they will be adjudicated "guilty" due their rejection of Jesus as Messiah. These will lose body, mind, soul, in the second death and they will cease to exist. There will be access to and from the Kingdom by those redeemed in Jesus living in resurrected bodies serving Jesus in His eternal Kingdom but "nothing impure" will be there (Revelation 21:27).

maxx

i have talked with a lot of biblical scholars and even Christians with very good skills at what the bible says. They all say that according to how it is written, there are those who do not make it to heaven or who do not get cast into the lake of fire. It clearly states it.after the second death and after new jerusalem comes down, i repeat; after; there are those outside the gates who can not enter. The thousand year rein is what people refer to the millennium and it occurs before judgement.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; I completely disagree...There is no entrance into the Kingdom without faith in Jesus as one's Messiah and nothing impure will enter therein. Those who reject Jesus, reject LIFE.

maxx

apparently you mis-read what i wrote. i never said that there will be others than can enter. i said there will be others who can not enter, who are still alive on earth AFTER the judgement, after the second death where so many are cast into the lake of fire. You are quoting bible verses at the wrong person rick. one does not take a passage out of a chapter and state this is what it means. All in all, I have been stating that there have been various changes in many aspects of the bible since it was written. Perhaps not the overall theme or messages, but enough changes that make the bible today not entirely what god intended it to say. religion is fine in certain aspects, In my opinion it gave us art and probably music; because i think that early hominoids believed in gods, in which you do not simply because you do not believe in evolution. However, again, the faith you have is blinding you to the point that you can not see facts; facts that you refuse to accept simply because they go against your beliefs. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  It is the fool, the one absent rationality, logic, reason, discernment, that denies our Creator...you are such a person in your arrogance and self-endowed intellectualism...you have become the fool.

19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[a] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; There will be no one in the New Jerusalem or upon the New Earth that has not been redeemed by faith in Jesus, no one. Nothing has changed in the Scriptures...the Gospel is the same Gospel that was ordained "before Time began" (2 Timothy 1:8-10) and first pictured for you in Genesis 3:21 and explained for you by Jesus and His ordained Minister, Paul of Tarsus. If you deny Jesus as your Messiah...you will die in Hell and you have NO PART in the resurrection to life (John 5:29).

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Lucky

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You're very lucky aarong tolerates brainwashed evangelical MAGAmaniac trolls.

ZeusAres42

@JulesKorngold

The guy is not even religious. He is mocking religion. JulesKorngold said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You're very lucky aarong tolerates brainwashed evangelical MAGAmaniac trolls.

MayCaesar

@ZeusAres42

I honestly think that he is just an imbecile. Sometimes the obvious has to be said, no matter how harsh it sounds.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@JulesKorngold ; You should be so lucky that I communicate with a hoard of atheists headed to death in Hell.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 Again, the mind of the one sold out to Satan is irrelevant though dangerous.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 Again, the mind of the one sold out to Satan is irrelevant though dangerous.

LOL, this is too easy. so ricky in your infinite wisdom, how is it that which is irrelevant, dangerous? If it's irrelevant, it has no effect, if it is dangerous, it does. Go...

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 Again, the mind of the one sold out to Satan is irrelevant though dangerous.

The mind of an imbecile is both irrelevant and harmless. It is there to entertain people and has no other function. And entertainer you are, my friend! Have you tried applying to Cirque du Soleil yet?

maxx

well in that answer, you are simply ignoring what your own bible states.  i have heard people say that those outside are those in the lake of fire; but that is wrong for many reasons. @RickeyHoltsclawfirst, there is a new earth, and all old things have passed away, so outside of the gates is a new earth, not the lake of fire. everything new means just that. everything. There is no lake of fire, no devil,, just new jersalem upon a new earth, yet there are still those outside of the gates upon the NEW EARTH> . i will even point out, that according to the bible, AFTER the second death, AFTER the final judgement, AFTER new jersalem and after the old earth has passed away, there are nations still there; which means countries of people, in which the tree of life is used to heal these nations, and since there is no more evil, no more sickness in new jersalem, that means these countries of people are there because they are not saintly enough to enter the gates, nor evil enough to be cast into the lake of fire. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

2) Critical thinking is what brings one to the realization of our Creator's existence and His sovereignty over all life. It is the fool that says there is no God (Psalm 14:1).

There is so much irony in this passage... The citation at the end is icing on the cake.

If one is honest concerning logic and reason and our Creator, the atheist is absent logic and reason as they deny what they don't know; the atheist has no explanation relevant to the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning the presence of our Heavens or Earth or complex human genome yet there is a written form of explanation in the Canon of Scripture and a living form of explanation in the embodiment of Jesus Christ yet the atheist staunchly proclaims that there is no God and there is no design or Designer concerning our Creation that inundates our senses 24/7/365. 

It might be reasonable to proclaim some healthy skepticism by one who is absent the faith to believe the Scriptures but to outright deny and vehemently and hatefully reject our Creator and His written words, words that are before you and have endured many thousands of years...this is not logical or wise nor does it suggest intelligence but pure prejudice and hate; therefore, I see nor "irony" in my previous response, only truth which is under girded by the Holy Spirit (Psalm 14:1).  

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

I do not "hatefully reject" your "creator", any more than I "hatefully reject" Santa or Sauron. I like me a good fantasy! I just do not have schizophrenia and generally can tell fantasy from reality.

"Healthy skepticism" exactly constitutes asking for evidence when hearing a claim - and, in the absence of evidence being presented, rejecting the claim. And the more preachy someone gets, the more you can be sure that he has no idea what he is talking about.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;   @ZeusAres43 @Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

@ZeusAres42

I honestly think that he is just an imbecile. Sometimes the obvious has to be said, no matter how harsh it sounds.

May, why so insulting?...simply because you're absent the spiritual and cognitive resources to understand my Christian discourse is no reason to call me an "imbecile." Do my words torment your demon to that extent? Why can't you stay on topic "Man is inherently evil" as opposed to proving the veracity of the debate subject through your unwarranted insults? What is it in your life that Christianity triggers? Are you gay - are you addicted - do you practice a sexual proclivity that Christianity considers a sin? Inquiring minds want to know why you have such vitriol concerning Christianity, our Creator? 

 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  My spiritual "wisdom" testifies against your apostasy via atheism...your life as an atheist is nihilistic, destructive, not sustainable. What is the root of your atheism, are you homosexual?