What's more likely to be real, alien life or god?

PorfirioDiaz

Do pickles come from cucumbers?

Factfinder

PorfirioDiaz said:

Do pickles come from cucumbers?

Yes they do. And...

just_sayin

Why would alien life disprove God?  Logically, both could be true, or conversely, both could be false, or one is true and the other false.  The astronomical odds for life suggest it is unlikely to find alien life, or at least any intelligent life.  The shortest DNA strand of the simplest single celled creature is still so complex that the co-creator of DNA, Crick, argued for panspermia.  The problem with that argument though is it only pushes back the fact that even simple life is more complex than naturalistic processes can account for.  

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Why would alien life disprove God?  Logically, both could be true, or conversely, both could be false, or one is true and the other false.  The astronomical odds for life suggest it is unlikely to find alien life, or at least any intelligent life.  The shortest DNA strand of the simplest single celled creature is still so complex that the co-creator of DNA, Crick, argued for panspermia.  The problem with that argument though is it only pushes back the fact that even simple life is more complex than naturalistic processes can account for.  

I'm not sure it would disprove god. Aliens may be more of a likelihood though. As it stands the only way to test the natural for answers is by natural means. That process is often referred to as the scientific method. Though we're far from having all the answers, we are getting a lot of answers and none point to anything other then natural processes. Saying 'god did' and 'my book says' so hasn't revealed any verifiable evidence. So based on this fact I'd say aliens are more likely. God in some form possibly can exist, but so far no evidence of one does. The religions on the other hand which support indoctrinated views might be in a little trouble. Especially since they are so tribal orientated they don't seem to even approach the subject extraterrestrials in the physical sense. 

MayCaesar

I do not find it useful to speculate about things we have absolutely no information or reasonable theories on. The idea of "god" is too esoteric and vague to be explorable in any meaningful way, and the estimates of probability that aliens exist range from 0% to 100% depending on the initial assumptions (which, again, we do not have much information to put constraints on).

I have done a bit of research in astrobiology (in essence, the study of possibility of life in various environments outside Earth) in the past, and when you work in a field like this, you are tempted to succumb to thinking that aliens' existence is almost certain, for by nature of the field the vast majority of published papers will talk about possibility of life in the most extreme environments. However, it is important to remember that possibility/likelihood of something based on very rough models does not imply its possibility/likelihood in the real world. However fascinating the field is, however many scientists enter it every year, the ultimate conclusion as of now is, "We have no idea".

Now, if we do discover extraterrestrial life, that will be an enormous piece of the puzzle. It will not exactly say anything about "god", but it will suggest that life on Earth is not at all unique or special, so ancient religions should crumble given that they all state that "god"(s) gave special attention to humanity. Of course, there will probably still be people who will disbelieve the documented existence of aliens (much like many disbelieve that the Earth is not flat), or people who will find new tortured interpretations of the original texts to include extraterrestrials in them - but such people will likely be in the minority. I would expect new religions to emerge, ones that focus not on humanity as a special species, but, perhaps, on the Milky Way as a special galaxy, or the Universe as a special world.

Factfinder

@MayCaesar

I agree there is no strong case for either. In a very minor sense of the word however, it seems the only real evidence we have points to possible theoretical circumstances for alien life forms. We have no way to even define what a god could be.  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  There are no "aliens" as human kind defines them or believes them to be. All that mankind sees and declares as a UFO or an "alien" is the interaction between the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm and these interactions will increase in frequency and in intensity as we approach the 2nd-Advent of Messiah to Mount Olivet and the initiation of His Millennial Kingdom. Human kind catches glimpses of the demonic world and the angelic world as the spiritual war between good and evil rages on around us and through us (Ephesians 6:10-20).

Such "alien" manifestations are well documented in Genesis 3 with Eve's interaction with Satan (Ezekiel 28:11+) and Ezekiel's vision Ezekiel 1. Abraham's interaction with Elohim in Genesis 22 and Jacob's encounter in Genesis 32-33; Sodom and Gomorrah and the angelic presence there; The Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17).

We are explicitly warned to NOT deny kindness and hospitality to strangers as some have entertained angels unaware.

English Standard Version
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2

Jesus explains that His Kingdom is NOT of this Realm.... but there exists around us, through us, a Realm that is more tangible, REAL, interactive, infinitely superior, to this present finite Realm of Time.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  There are no "aliens" as human kind defines them or believes them to be. All that mankind sees and declares as a UFO or an "alien" is the interaction between the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm and these interactions will increase in frequency and in intensity as we approach the 2nd-Advent of Messiah to Mount Olivet and the initiation of His Millennial Kingdom. Human kind catches glimpses of the demonic world and the angelic world as the spiritual war between good and evil rages on around us and through us (Ephesians 6:10-20).

Such "alien" manifestations are well documented in Genesis 3 with Eve's interaction with Satan (Ezekiel 28:11+) and Ezekiel's vision Ezekiel 1. Abraham's interaction with Elohim in Genesis 22 and Jacob's encounter in Genesis 32-33; Sodom and Gomorrah and the angelic presence there; The Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17).

We are explicitly warned to NOT deny kindness and hospitality to strangers as some have entertained angels unaware.

English Standard Version
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2

Jesus explains that His Kingdom is NOT of this Realm.... but there exists around us, through us, a Realm that is more tangible, REAL, interactive, infinitely superior, to this present finite Realm of Time.

To say there are "no aliens" is a claim of absolution. And would need to be proven. Bible versus prove nothing. Now if you can produce spirit flesh to be examined and tested that could be considered "tangible" evidence of angelic beings interacting with humans. If other discoveries and facts lined up with claims made in your book that is. Saying "it's god" is meaningless.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The Bible tells YOU nothing because you're dead spiritually. If you knew the Scriptures and you trusted Elohim, you would know that there exists ZERO reason for physical life beyond this Earth and why our life constrained by Time has manifest and why it is very temporary...but you continue to meander in spiritual arrogance and wilful spiritual ignorance. That will be your Judgment lest you repent and humble yourself before our Creator.

The Scriptures provide you the ONLY SOURCE of knowledge concerning this life, its causation and purpose and life in the Realm that exists outside this temporary Realm of Time...but you continue to kick against the goads...

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; The Bible tells YOU nothing because you're dead spiritually. If you knew the Scriptures and you trusted Elohim, you would know that there exists ZERO reason for physical life beyond this Earth and why our life constrained by Time has manifest and why it is very temporary...but you continue to meander in spiritual arrogance and wilful spiritual ignorance. That will be your Judgment lest you repent and humble yourself before our Creator.

The Scriptures provide you the ONLY SOURCE of knowledge concerning this life, its causation and purpose and life in the Realm that exists outside this temporary Realm of Time...but you continue to kick against the goads...

I know the scriptures pretty well. And the spirit of truth is alive and well in me. Thanks for your consideration. 

There exist no reason for life to exist on earth other than it emerged after billions of years of cosmic evolution. And no your god of the gaps doesn't explain what we don't know. Science does as facts are discovered through the processes.

Interesting concept; can an atheists logical rejection of the god of your book match the pride you so arrogantly litter the board with while hurling childish insults? 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Life on Earth was initiated by our Creator, Jesus Christ, a little over 6K-years ago according to the Biblical genealogical record and our genome, matter, the Heavens, Earth, were created for a specific eschatological purpose; primarily, as a repository for a Kingdom War that was initiated by a rebellious, anointed, charismatic, covetous, cherub angel. The entirety of Time and matter has but one focus, the restoration of holiness and righteousness to the Kingdom of Elohim as Elohim destroys the works of Satan via Messiah (1 John 3:8b); this, while Elohim simultaneously maintains volitional love with His angelic creation that He cherishes beyond human comprehension. 

Atheists do not exist...every human being possessing at least a modicum of cognitive acuity, discernment and wisdom sufficient to discern right from wrong, good from evil, the supernatural World that encompasses us; this human being intuitively knows that our Creator exists and that He has dominion over our life and over all that has been created; therefore, atheism is a lie...it's a religious cult comprised of the mentally, morally, spiritually, deficient, the defiled, the narcissist, the hedonist, those demonically influenced and/or possessed.   

MayCaesar

Factfinder said:

@MayCaesar

I agree there is no strong case for either. In a very minor sense of the word however, it seems the only real evidence we have points to possible theoretical circumstances for alien life forms. We have no way to even define what a god could be.  

An interesting possibility would be that life in the Universe is very common - however, intelligent life is very unique. After all, even here on Earth it took up to a couple of billions years of evolution (depending on how you count) to produce sapient species that so far have existed only for a few tends of millennia, and before that we had 65 million years of fish and mammals, and 200+ million years of dinosaurs and their ancestors - that different little in complexity from virtually any non-human species found on Earth today.

Perhaps in the future, when we start travelling across the galaxy, we will be able to go on safaris on millions of planets full of funky animals - but will never meet another spacefaring civilization.

Factfinder

@MayCaesar

That is a good point. I often thought life in general would be hard to find considering how much time and space would need to be covered. Then add intelligent life? Obviously from the some arguments I've heard we're still in the 'progression of acquiring intellect stage'. 

MayCaesar

@Factfinder

Oh, certainly, from the point of view of the hypothetical spacefaring civilization, we are little more than monkeys with sticks. And yes, the space is incredibly vast, and our observational ability is very weak. We only recently started getting very primitive images of the closest exoplanets, and the sensitivity of our instruments in order to detect traces of alien life would have to be orders of magnitude higher. As we speak a thermonuclear war could be waged across the Alpha Centauri system, and we would have absolutely no idea that it was happening.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Life on Earth was initiated by our Creator, Jesus Christ, a little over 6K-years ago according to the Biblical genealogical record and our genome, matter, the Heavens, Earth, were created for a specific eschatological purpose; primarily, as a repository for a Kingdom War that was initiated by a rebellious, anointed, charismatic, covetous, cherub angel. The entirety of Time and matter has but one focus, the restoration of holiness and righteousness to the Kingdom of Elohim as Elohim destroys the works of Satan via Messiah (1 John 3:8b); this, while Elohim simultaneously maintains volitional love with His angelic creation that He cherishes beyond human comprehension. 

Atheists do not exist...every human being possessing at least a modicum of cognitive acuity, discernment and wisdom sufficient to discern right from wrong, good from evil, the supernatural World that encompasses us; this human being intuitively knows that our Creator exists and that He has dominion over our life and over all that has been created; therefore, atheism is a lie...it's a religious cult comprised of the mentally, morally, spiritually, deficient, the defiled, the narcissist, the hedonist, those demonically influenced and/or possessed.   

Again, spamming the board with fairytales and getting upset cause people aren't persuaded by the idea of a personal sky daddy isn't close to debating. Do you have anything significant to add?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; You're "spamming the board" with your religion of atheism and demonism without knowledge and in servitude to the Devil...hypocrite much?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Your "spamming the board" with your religion of atheism and demonism without knowledge and in servitude to the Devil...hypocrite much?

LOL, your short honest answer is "no" you have nothing offer. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  I have life to offer one willing to listen and receive...but YOU have chosen to die in your sin and perish in Hell in your pride and arrogance; therefore, you're not willing to receive because your father blinds your mind and your heart from receiving life. You're a slave to Satan.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  I have life to offer one willing to listen and receive...but YOU have chosen to die in your sin and perish in Hell in your pride and arrogance; therefore, you're not willing to receive because your father blinds your mind and your heart from receiving life. You're a slave to Satan.

Yawn. So there's still more evidence for the possibility of alien life than god. Are you aware about half the stars or so that you can see on a clear night don't even exist anymore? Do you know why? 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The Heavens were created for the Glory of Elohim and as a testimony to His omnipotence and sovereignty.You are but a moment in Time and the only relevance you will find in this temporary life constrained by decaying flesh is intimacy with your Creator by faith. You are perishing by the second and you will succumb to death of the body and at that very moment you will realize the error you have made existing in selfishness and self-righteousness while deny the free gift of eternal life available to you through faith in Jesus our Messiah who died for you; I therefore urge you to carefully, prayerfully, read the "Gospel of John" and make an informed decision concerning your eternal destiny before it's too late. 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; The Heavens were created for the Glory of blah, blah, blah

So no, you didn't know many stars you see at night no longer exist and you don't know why that is. Thanks.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Elohim knows the name of every star...they will all fade away into an all-consuming fire.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Elohim knows the name of every star...they will all fade away into an all-consuming fire.

Thanks for reaffirming your ignorance of the cosmos but I believed you the first time you confessed.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; No problem Factfinder...enjoy your cosmos.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; No problem Factfinder...enjoy your cosmos.

I will. And yes I'm aware at how well your book reinforces circular reasoning with more circular reasoning. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  You will find more than simple "circular reasoning" at your last exhalation...lest you repent and trust fully in Jesus as your Messiah.

MayCaesar

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Life on Earth was initiated by our Creator, Jesus Christ, a little over 6K-years ago according to the Biblical genealogical record and our genome, matter, the Heavens, Earth, were created for a specific eschatological purpose; primarily, as a repository for a Kingdom War that was initiated by a rebellious, anointed, charismatic, covetous, cherub angel. The entirety of Time and matter has but one focus, the restoration of holiness and righteousness to the Kingdom of Elohim as Elohim destroys the works of Satan via Messiah (1 John 3:8b); this, while Elohim simultaneously maintains volitional love with His angelic creation that He cherishes beyond human comprehension. 

Atheists do not exist...every human being possessing at least a modicum of cognitive acuity, discernment and wisdom sufficient to discern right from wrong, good from evil, the supernatural World that encompasses us; this human being intuitively knows that our Creator exists and that He has dominion over our life and over all that has been created; therefore, atheism is a lie...it's a religious cult comprised of the mentally, morally, spiritually, deficient, the defiled, the narcissist, the hedonist, those demonically influenced and/or possessed.   

Again, spamming the board with fairytales and getting upset cause people aren't persuaded by the idea of a personal sky daddy isn't close to debating. Do you have anything significant to add?

It is a good rule of thumb to never ask a question you know the answer to.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  You will find more than simple "circular reasoning" at your last exhalation...lest you repent and trust fully in Jesus as your Messiah.

Okay so that's one vote for aliens!

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;Why would alien life disprove God? 

What the eff are you talking about?

God hasnt even been proven in the first place.

Jee ziz your full of crap.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Barnardot ;  God "Elohim" has proven Himself through what He has made and if you deny HIM or His creation as evidence, you will be "without excuse" as your are adjudicated for the "second death" in Hell.

Barnardot

@RickeyHoltsclaw @Factfinder ;You're "spamming the board" with your religion of atheism and demonism without knowledge and in servitude to the Devil...hypocrite much?

And of course if any one with half a brain takes the time to analize the origin of that so called newspaper clipping they would see that it was completely made up and doctored.

So once again you have been court out good and proper for spamming and being dishonest so it wont be long before you get kicked out again will it?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Lucky

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You're very lucky aarong tolerates brainwashed evangelical MAGAmaniac trolls.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@JulesKorngold ;  You're lucky a Christian takes the time to communicate with a hoard of demonic atheists headed to death in Hell.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@JulesKorngold ;  You're lucky a Christian takes the time to communicate with a hoard of demonic atheists headed to death in Hell.

So christ like

ZeusAres42

One is about faith, theology, and religious texts, etc. The other is grounded in empirical research, testing, statistical probabilities, etc. Even if aliens do exist, that does not disprove a deity.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ;  There is no empiricism in the search for aliens...it's all conjecture...fantasy.

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

Dum question. For instance, one is about faith, theology, and religious texts, etc. The other is grounded in empirical research, testing, statistical probabilities, etc. Even if aliens do exist, that does not disprove a deity.

Very true. If you're referring to my question, it wasn't about disproving either one. It was about what is more, say feasible? Granted I did expand on what people may think it means if one were to be discovered in regards to their beliefs so.... 

Bottom line I'm willing to state on the record that it's most likely by the slimmest of margins that aliens will be discovered first. Maybe a meaningless philosophical point of discussion but an interesting one to me regardless. 

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Sorry, thought you were Barnadot as the OP lol. I will admit I said dum because I don't like that guy lmao. 

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

@Factfinder

Sorry, thought you were Barnadot as the OP lol. I will admit I said dum because I don't like that guy lmao. 

LOL happens to the best of us. No worries

just_sayin

ZeusAres42 said:

Dum question. For instance, one is about faith, theology, and religious texts, etc. The other is grounded in empirical research, testing, statistical probabilities, etc. Even if aliens do exist, that does not disprove a deity.

The question is about probability.  Even atheists such as Roger Penrose have noted that the odds of our universe having the low entropy level needed to produce a universe that either didn't immediately collapse in upon itself or have so little gravitation in it that atoms could not form is 1 part in 10^10^123.  To put that astronomical number into perspective there are just an estimated 1 in 10^80 particles (not atoms, but the stuff that makes up atoms) in the entire universe.  That is just one fundamental force that has to be infinitely fined tuned to produce a universe - not just a life permitting universe, but a universe at all.  Now, you may not like evidence like this because it deals with deduction and probabilities, but it is no less valid.  Also, know that the other fundamental forces must be infinitesimally fined tuned to permit any universe at all, not just one that permits life.

As a coder, its pretty easy to identify code.  There are lots of different languages, and I can't always tell you which coding language it is, but I can tell it is code.  The thing about code is that just a small error can disable the whole code and make it not function.  Same goes for genes and DNA.  If you walk into a room and there are scrabble letters on the table that say 'You are a jerk' (I'm just joking with you). you could reason that by the law of probabilities that it is possible the letters randomly fell out of the bag that way, or you could think 'somebody who knows me did this'.  Which is more likely?  When you look at DNA code, even the simplest lifeforms DNA strand is far more complex than random chance has been able to explain.  Its complexity is why Crick, the co-discoverer of DNA claimed that panspermia was more likely than life originating on earth.

Now, the odds certainly suggest an intelligence is behind them.  To believe what @FactFinder does, I'd have to throw my brain out and believe that the universe came from nothing.  Do you know what comes from nothing - nothing.  I'd have to believe in magic.  That time itself is magic.  And that if you just give something enough time - abracadabra - you get life.  Instead I chose to keep my brain and use it.  It seems much more likely from the fine tuning of the universe, to the complexity of human life, to the fact the universe had a beginning, that there is a God, than not.

Alien life's existence is not necessarily tied to God's existence.  Though considering the complexity of a life permitting universe, it is much more likely that alien life is more probable if a God exists, but the same logic does not hold the other way.  

MayCaesar

ZeusAres42 said:

Dum question. For instance, one is about faith, theology, and religious texts, etc. The other is grounded in empirical research, testing, statistical probabilities, etc. Even if aliens do exist, that does not disprove a deity.

If deity is understood in this fantastic sense, then I agree with you. However, the question of deity's existence can also be approached scientifically, and even complete absence of evidence at the moment still allows one to put some constraints on its properties.

One fascinating idea I had once (and even thought of making a paper out of it - I tend to come up with wild ideas like this that live in my head for a week or two and then die) is that if we live in a simulation run by "higher" beings (essentially gods), then there could be a way to determine that our world is simulated. It is based on the fact that the simulation might not be perfect, there could be small bugs and aberrations - which could be detectable. Much like a poorly written computer program sometimes produces gibberish, we could observe some clear anomalies in the world that simply do not fit into anything we already know. Something like us seeing a star 10,000 light years away from us, and then one day just teleporting to a clearly different location. Or having the air temperature somewhere on Earth for a short period of time be nonsensically high (100,000 Kelvin) without producing all the effects this hot plasma does.

In such case we could actually call these things "miracles", although in reality they would just be bugs. Of course, it could also be that the "higher" beings can somehow directly intervene in the simulation, in which case they would function exactly like the Greek gods.

I do not think that this idea is worth seriously exploring at the moment given complete lack of evidence of any of that taking place - but it is nice to be open to the idea that on a very fundamental level the world is not what we see. After all, we can only observe the world through our 5 senses, and for all we know the world could just be a projection of something more complicated. The "holographic Universe" theory is quite prominent nowadays, after all.
I also do not think that we should anthropomorphize our models too much. Even if the Universe is a simulation in some sense, it is very unlikely that the "computer" it runs on has anything in common with our computers - it would even not be embedded in our spacetime, and the world in which it "lives" would be absolutely incomprehensible to human mind.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Dum question. For instance, one is about faith, theology, and religious texts, etc. The other is grounded in empirical research, testing, statistical probabilities, etc. Even if aliens do exist, that does not disprove a deity.

The question is about probability.  Even atheists such as Roger Penrose have noted that the odds of our universe having the low entropy level needed to produce a universe that either didn't immediately collapse in upon itself or have so little gravitation in it that atoms could not form is 1 part in 10^10^123.  To put that astronomical number into perspective there are just an estimated 1 in 10^80 particles (not atoms, but the stuff that makes up atoms) in the entire universe.  That is just one fundamental force that has to be infinitely fined tuned to produce a universe - not just a life permitting universe, but a universe at all.  Now, you may not like evidence like this because it deals with deduction and probabilities, but it is no less valid.  Also, know that the other fundamental forces must be infinitesimally fined tuned to permit any universe at all, not just one that permits life.

As a coder, its pretty easy to identify code.  There are lots of different languages, and I can't always tell you which coding language it is, but I can tell it is code.  The thing about code is that just a small error can disable the whole code and make it not function.  Same goes for genes and DNA.  If you walk into a room and there are scrabble letters on the table that say 'You are a jerk'. you could reason that by the law of probabilities that it is possible the letters randomly fell out of the bag that way, or you could think 'somebody who knows me did this'.  Which is more likely?  When you look at DNA code, even the simplest lifeforms DNA strand is far more complex than random chance has been able to explain.  Its complexity is why Crick, the co-discoverer of DNA claimed that panspermia was more likely than life originating on earth.

Now, the odds certainly suggest an intelligence is behind them.  To believe what @FactFinder does, I'd have to throw my brain out and believe that the universe came from nothing.  Do you know what comes from nothing - nothing.  I'd have to believe in magic.  That time itself is magic.  And that if you just give something enough time - abracadabra - you get life.  Instead I chose to keep my brain and use it.  It seems much more likely from the fine tuning of the universe, to the complexity of human life, to the fact the universe had a beginning, that there is a God, than not.

Alien life's existence is not necessarily tied to God's existence.  Though considering the complexity of a life permitting universe, it is much more likely that alien life is more probable if a God exists, but the same logic does not hold the other way.  

You project your ignorance when you presume to know how I form my opinions. 

Regards to your god of the gaps speech, not evidence. Nothing about the study of astronomy, the cosmos, gravitational fields, physics, quantum physics, biology, hematology, chemo biology and so on... points to a single design or designer. Also 'nothing' is an illusion where space, matter and energy are concerned. I'm sure you're choosing to misrepresent Roger Penrose because if he's an atheist he would not very likely agree his observation of a mathematical concept leads to your myth daddy. There is no evidence of 'fine tuning' in the universe. Only constant recombing of sub atomic particles and miniscule explosions which over billions of years allowed chemicals to emerge and their reactions till finally the recombing of dna... All more logical than saying 'thor did it'.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; 
There are no "aliens"...only brief interactions between the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm...these are not "aliens" but demons and/or the faithful angelic interacting within the Realm of Time by permission.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; 
There are no "aliens"...only brief interactions between the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm...these are not "aliens" but demons and/or the faithful angelic interacting within the Realm of Time by permission.

Any empirical evidence to support you absolute claim there are 'no aliens'? Bible versus, preaching and your religious convictions don't count. This debate is in science.