Rejecting 'Atheism', Beyond Labels: Rethinking How We Define Non-Belief: And Why I Choose 'None'

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Again, Still waiting for you to respond to my quesions please I specifically asked you. And if you could refrain from using any deepities for a moment that would be great. Thanks. I don't think you will now but that's fine too. You sounded a little angry in your last post. Anyway, good discussion. Thanks.  

@ZeusAres42 ; I responded to your questions...that's the best I can do...

So you admit defeat?

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Again, Still waiting for you to respond to my quesions please I specifically asked you. And if you could refrain from using any deepities for a moment that would be great. Thanks. I don't think you will now but that's fine too. You sounded a little angry in your last post. Anyway, good discussion. Thanks.  

@ZeusAres42 ; I responded to your questions...that's the best I can do...

show me. because I can't find you have repsonded to any of the questions I specifically asked you last. You responded to what I asked just_sayin; not you. Please do no lie. If you could be honest and acually respond then to what I asked you that would be great. Thanks. 

@ZeusAres42 ;  I don't see anything to respond too.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  I am not the one defeated.

ZeusAres42

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Again, Still waiting for you to respond to my quesions please I specifically asked you. And if you could refrain from using any deepities for a moment that would be great. Thanks. I don't think you will now but that's fine too. You sounded a little angry in your last post. Anyway, good discussion. Thanks.  

@ZeusAres42 ; I responded to your questions...that's the best I can do...

So you admit defeat?

well he's definitely avoiding the questions I addressed to him and now even lying about it. I am pretty sure this was not my imgaination:

@RickeyHoltsclaw


Conintuing our discussion in the other thread I will now post here as it is still relevant and you are posting here a lot recently. I will start here:

ZeusAres42 said:@RickeyHoltsclaw

So, just to get this straight. I don't want to miss characterise your position. You do actually see your belief in god based on evidence and just faith alone? And that evidence is scripture?

RickeyHoltsclaw said: 

It is evidence extant in Nature that demands an omnipotent Creator that has under girded my belief in Him from my earliest childhood memories. It is the Scriptures that provided continuity and understanding relevant to my Creator and it is the life of Jesus (as expounded upon in the Scriptures) who confirmed to me that what I understood from evidence in Nature culminates in the person of Messiah Jesus, the hypostatic union of Elohim and Flesh; in whom, I placed my "faith" as my Lord and Savior believing that Jesus is Creator, Warrior, Messiah, Judge; this, subsequent my first thorough read of what the Holy Spirit has provided in the Canon. It is my belief that actuated saving faith that initiated New Covenant relationship with the Father; this, by faith-believing in my heart that Jesus is Messiah who died for me (John 3) and this belief-faith resulted in the receiving of the indwelling Holy Spirit who is my anointing as Teacher, Counselor, Intercessor, Wisdom, Peace, Comforter (Ephesians 1:13-14; 1 John 2:27). 

This statement seems to present a deepity. I'm not entirely sure if you are being completely honest with us, or even with yourself, when you say your beliefs about God are based on evidence. If your belief truly rests on evidence, then why is there a need for faith? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, 'I don’t need reason, logic, or evidence to believe in God; faith alone suffices'?

Furthermore, how do you verify the historical accuracy of scriptural events and teachings? What methods can be employed to test these against other historical documents or evidence, beyond merely observing the sun and moon and attributing their existence to God? What substantial evidence exists? How can we test to determine if these scriptures are authentic, without merely relying on intuition, attributing mysteries of nature to divine action, etc.? How can these methods be replicated or verified by others who seek to understand the validity of its claims?

Lastly, considering your belief in an omnipotent Creator is based on observations of nature and further reinforced by Scripture, how do you distinguish between what might simply be subjective personal interpretations of these observations and what is objectively applicable evidence?

@Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; You have so many old quotes mixed into your responses...can you decipher what is new and what is old and can you ask ONE question...I'm not here to type-out essays for you?

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ;  LOL...just ask a question...I think Zeus is inebriated again...he becomes confrontational, challenging, angry...try again, please? When he's sober...not a bad guy.

ZeusAres42

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ;  Do you know what epistemology is? Do you have a question as opposed to a questionnaire?

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope. 

Without reason you have no knowledge, without knowledge you have no protection against the poison of faith.  

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar

1) You are proof that what I am alleging is truth...you know intuitively what behavior is acceptable or unacceptable due your conscience lest that conscience is seared and no longer able to discern, this void being defined as a form of psychopathy. LIFE proves to you the communicable divine attributes you possess as you are created in the spiritual image of Elohim and these communicable attributes were given you for His eschatological purposes going forward; namely, to thwart societal implosion due unrestrained narcissism and that your judgment, in that Day, manifest with due process; in other words, you "intuitively" know that our Creator exists and that He possesses sovereignty over your life; this, whether or not you acknowledge Him...you are "without excuse."

2) Another divine communicable attribute given you at creation on Day-6 and inclusive in your genome is "discernment."...If you seek truth in life and walk in wisdom, charlatans will be obvious...if you study the Scriptures and honor Jesus by faith, you will possess the Holy Spirit who is your Wisdom and Discernment...He will make your path straight and your guide you through the obstacles of life. 

3) My "preaching" offends you because you possess a most arrogant and demeaning and destructive demon...who is irritated by my presence here.

It is cute that you think that just saying that something is true supports it being true. Again, you have failed to respond to the content of my comment. I asked you a very concrete question, and you threw in more meaningless Biblical rubbish.

And no, your preaching does not offend me. Insanity does not offend me in principle: it is a mental condition that is quite debilitating, but it is just a fact of life.

I will repeat my question again: what if the reality is that God of Logic wrote the Bible to separate easily duped people (and purge them subsequently) from those who have a little more logical/critical thinking? What experiment could you perform to eliminate this possibility? And if you cannot perform such an experiment, then is it not true that your faith rests on absolutely nothing?

ZeusAres42 said:
The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

I honestly do not think him a sophisticated enough thinker to even have "epistemology". As he himself says, he is run by blind faith: he lacks any toolset for acquiring knowledge as such.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope. 

Without reason you have no knowledge, without knowledge you have no protection against the poison of faith.  

You can't do much of anything without faith.  Faith is just acting on what you believe to be true.  You have to have faith to drive a car.  You have to have a measure of faith to eat food.  You could be fearful of someone poisoning you.  You have to have faith to flip on the light switches.  You believe that the light will turn on.  You flipping the switch is an act of faith.  I don't think it is fair to call something that you have to have to do just about anything - poison.  

My faith in God is not irrational. .  I trust God because of the things I have seen and observed.  

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope. 

Without reason you have no knowledge, without knowledge you have no protection against the poison of faith.  

You can't do much of anything without faith.  Faith is just acting on what you believe to be true.  You have to have faith to drive a car.  You have to have a measure of faith to eat food.  You could be fearful of someone poisoning you.  You have to have faith to flip on the light switches.  You believe that the light will turn on.  You flipping the switch is an act of faith.  I don't think it is fair to call something that you have to have to do just about anything - poison.  

My faith in God is not irrational. .  I trust God because of the things I have seen and observed.  

If i sit in a chair it's because i know the craftsmanship that went into building the chair. There are no identification markers denoting a supernatural being, or it's craftsmanship considering creation. See the difference? 

MayCaesar

Factfinder said:

If i sit in a chair it's because i know the craftsmanship that went into building the chair. There are no identification markers denoting a supernatural being, or it's craftsmanship considering creation. See the difference? 

You hit the nail here. One can reasonably argue that on some level we all have to assume the unprovable, such as "laws of physics are permanent", for without such assumptions we cannot make sense of anything. But that is like saying that we are not free because we are subjected to the force of gravity without our consent: we have to operate in a sensible framework, otherwise this discussion is completely pointless.

Once very fundamental assumptions are accepted, everything else derives from them logically. Sure, I might not know all the details of how my car works - but I know that solid engineering went into it, I know many elements of that engineering, I know from experience that cars consistently run well. It is not like I hop into a car and in a complete informational vacuum say, "This car will run well" - no one does that. When I hop into a car, I have tons of information validating my assumption that the car will run. It is not faith, but an observation.

In Bayesian statistics, the more often we observe a particular pattern, the more likely this pattern is to reflect some law. If we observe 970 out of 1000 women give birth and 0 out of 1000 men give birth, it is reasonable to conclude that women can give birth and men cannot. It is not "faith", but a very concrete reasoning.

Needless to say, such concrete reasoning is absent in religion, and whenever you ask a religious person what observations make them think that god exists, they will say something completely outlandish, like, "I have seen people embracing Christianity having their lives improved", or "I have had an emotional experience I cannot explain rationally" - things having nothing to do with the question at hand.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope. 

Without reason you have no knowledge, without knowledge you have no protection against the poison of faith.  

You can't do much of anything without faith.  Faith is just acting on what you believe to be true.  You have to have faith to drive a car.  You have to have a measure of faith to eat food.  You could be fearful of someone poisoning you.  You have to have faith to flip on the light switches.  You believe that the light will turn on.  You flipping the switch is an act of faith.  I don't think it is fair to call something that you have to have to do just about anything - poison.  

My faith in God is not irrational. .  I trust God because of the things I have seen and observed.  

If i sit in a chair it's because i know the craftsmanship that went into building the chair. There are no identification markers denoting a supernatural being, or it's craftsmanship considering creation. See the difference? 

@Factfinder @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @just_sayin

It is our Creator, Jesus Christ, who took elements from the unseen Spiritual Realm for cause and fashioned those elements into matter that can be apprehended by a life-form constrained by Time and physics that forms the fibers of the wood which was used by that craftsman to form/construct the chair in which you sit and rely upon its rigidity by "faith." 

 

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.   

The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

True. It is as you said before, in order to completely succumb to faith, one has to reject reason. And faith is full of venom when unquestioned.

@Factfinder ; Without faith, you have no hope. 

Without reason you have no knowledge, without knowledge you have no protection against the poison of faith.  

@Factfinder @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 Reason presupposes knowledge, evidence, relevance; these things I apprehend through my senses via what has been made in Nature by my Creator; therefore, I employ reason, logic, evidence, to conclude that my Creator is sovereign, omnipotent, reality.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @just_sayin

It is our Creator, Jesus Christ, who took elements from the unseen Spiritual Realm for cause and fashioned those elements into matter that can be apprehended by a life-form constrained by Time and physics that forms the fibers of the wood which was used by that craftsman to form/construct the chair in which you sit and rely upon its rigidity by "faith." 

The origin of those elements is irrelevant when it comes to the question of whether the chair will support you or not. Only their properties are relevant, and those properties do not depend on what happened in the past: they are just there. And understanding those properties is a matter of observation, education and experimentation, not faith.

If you were doing everything in your life by faith, you would not last an hour. Just embrace by faith something random, such as "I do not need to breathe to survive", and try to live it.

That is the fun thing about you nutcases: 99.999% of your actions do not have anything to do with faith. You only invoke faith when talking about ridiculous fantasy concepts such as "god" or "afterlife", because this is just fantasy trash talk that has no consequence on anything.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder @MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @just_sayin

It is our Creator, Jesus Christ, who took elements from the unseen Spiritual Realm for cause and fashioned those elements into matter that can be apprehended by a life-form constrained by Time and physics that forms the fibers of the wood which was used by that craftsman to form/construct the chair in which you sit and rely upon its rigidity by "faith." 

The origin of those elements is irrelevant when it comes to the question of whether the chair will support you or not. Only their properties are relevant, and those properties do not depend on what happened in the past: they are just there. And understanding those properties is a matter of observation, education and experimentation, not faith.

If you were doing everything in your life by faith, you would not last an hour. Just embrace by faith something random, such as "I do not need to breathe to survive", and try to live it.

That is the fun thing about you nutcases: 99.999% of your actions do not have anything to do with faith. You only invoke faith when talking about ridiculous fantasy concepts such as "god" or "afterlife", because this is just fantasy trash talk that has no consequence on anything.

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ;

The origin of that which provides rigidity and safety concerning the chair is very relevant when one uses same as an analogy for theological origin of matter and faith. 

We engage "faith" daily...we turn the faucet expecting to see water...by faith; we eat the food before us by faith that the food is safe and nutritious; we leave our homes by faith believing that we will return unharmed and safe and healthy; we take our meds and our vitamins by faith that those who produced them did so with good intentions and that what we consume is safe; we enter our vehicles and by faith we trust our brakes to engage, the steering wheel to function properly and we have faith that motor vehicle operators around us will obey the rules of the road as well. 

I have faith that the words articulated within the Canon of Scripture are the very words my Creator desires I have so that I can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. I have faith that Jesus is my Messiah who died for me and by trusting-believing in Him as my Messiah, I receive His righteousness imputed-gifted over my life in exchange for my sin and I am thereby declared "not guilty" by the Father via New Covenant promise (John 2; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 8:12; Hebrews 10). 

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ;

The origin of that which provides rigidity and safety concerning the chair is very relevant when one uses same as an analogy for theological origin of matter and faith. 

We engage "faith" daily...we turn the faucet expecting to see water...by faith; we eat the food before us by faith that the food is safe and nutritious; we leave our homes by faith believing that we will return unharmed and safe and healthy; we take our meds and our vitamins by faith that those who produced them did so with good intentions and that what we consume is safe; we enter our vehicles and by faith we trust our brakes to engage, the steering wheel to function properly and we have faith that motor vehicle operators around us will obey the rules of the road as well. 

I have faith that the words articulated within the Canon of Scripture are the very words my Creator desires I have so that I can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. I have faith that Jesus is my Messiah who died for me and by trusting-believing in Him as my Messiah, I receive His righteousness imputed-gifted over my life in exchange for my sin and I am thereby declared "not guilty" by the Father via New Covenant promise (John 2; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 8:12; Hebrews 10). 

Really? Every time you sit on a chair, you think about "theological origin of matter and faith"? You must be fun to be around.

There is no "faith" involved in things you described. I mean, I have no idea how your brain works, but most people's brains do not work like that. Why do I take my prescribed medications, but do not take the snake oil a random stranger sells? Because behind the former is rigorous scientific research and years of successful sales on the market, while behind the latter is just a guy wanting to profit off my naivety.

You again just ignore everything that has been said and repeat the same boring preachy stuff. As I just explained, you do not employ faith in 99.999% of your actions. You said before that the solution to hunger is prayer - how about you try practicing it? 

You do not actually believe all this nonsense you are preaching to others: actions speak louder than words. You can say whatever you want, and maybe 0.01% of the most naive fools out there will accept your words - but they are just words. You never practice what you preach. If you did even 0.1% of things your faith claims you should do, you would be a corpse.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ;

The origin of that which provides rigidity and safety concerning the chair is very relevant when one uses same as an analogy for theological origin of matter and faith. 

We engage "faith" daily...we turn the faucet expecting to see water...by faith; we eat the food before us by faith that the food is safe and nutritious; we leave our homes by faith believing that we will return unharmed and safe and healthy; we take our meds and our vitamins by faith that those who produced them did so with good intentions and that what we consume is safe; we enter our vehicles and by faith we trust our brakes to engage, the steering wheel to function properly and we have faith that motor vehicle operators around us will obey the rules of the road as well. 

I have faith that the words articulated within the Canon of Scripture are the very words my Creator desires I have so that I can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. I have faith that Jesus is my Messiah who died for me and by trusting-believing in Him as my Messiah, I receive His righteousness imputed-gifted over my life in exchange for my sin and I am thereby declared "not guilty" by the Father via New Covenant promise (John 2; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 8:12; Hebrews 10). 

Really? Every time you sit on a chair, you think about "theological origin of matter and faith"? You must be fun to be around.

There is no "faith" involved in things you described. I mean, I have no idea how your brain works, but most people's brains do not work like that. Why do I take my prescribed medications, but do not take the snake oil a random stranger sells? Because behind the former is rigorous scientific research and years of successful sales on the market, while behind the latter is just a guy wanting to profit off my naivety.

You again just ignore everything that has been said and repeat the same boring preachy stuff. As I just explained, you do not employ faith in 99.999% of your actions. You said before that the solution to hunger is prayer - how about you try practicing it? 

You do not actually believe all this nonsense you are preaching to others: actions speak louder than words. You can say whatever you want, and maybe 0.01% of the most naive fools out there will accept your words - but they are just words. You never practice what you preach. If you did even 0.1% of things your faith claims you should do, you would be a corpse.

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42

No...I don't think about such things every time I sit in a chair but I put them forward when one uses a chair as an example of their rejection of origin and faith concerning my Lord.

The practice of faith is routine in most things you engage in every day of your life...my examples hold true.

My "preachy stuff" are words of Truth that irritate your demon.

I believe fully that Jesus is Messiah, Creator, and that only by faith in Him as one's Messiah will you receive forgiveness of sin; covenant relationship with the Father; eternal life in the New Jerusalem.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Once again, what you believe is irrelevant in the context of a debate. What you can justify logically is what is important, and to that end I am waiting for response to my argument.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Ok, in response to your last request for just one question how about we start here:

How do you verify the historical accuracy of scriptural events and teachings, and what methods can be employed to test these against other historical documents or evidence, beyond merely observing the sun and moon and attributing their existence to God? 

Also, if you could reciprocate with the same courtesy and provide straight up answers, and that are also void of any deepities that would be nice. Thanks. 

ZeusAres42

@just_sayin

You can't do much of anything without faith.  Faith is just acting on what you believe to be true.  You have to have faith to drive a car.  You have to have a measure of faith to eat food.  You could be fearful of someone poisoning you.  You have to have faith to flip on the light switches.  You believe that the light will turn on.  You flipping the switch is an act of faith.  I don't think it is fair to call something that you have to have to do just about anything - poison.  

My faith in God is not irrational. .  I trust God because of the things I have seen and observed.  

Here you are confusing faith with heuristics. In many religious contexts, faith refers to a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, often based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. This form of faith typically involves a degree of trust and confidence in a higher power or the tenets of a religion that goes beyond empirical evidence and often exists in the absence of it.

Heuristics on the other hand are mental shortcuts or rules of thumb that help us make decisions or judgments quickly without having to stop and analyze every detail. Heuristics simplify the decision-making process by applying practical, experience-based techniques for problem-solving, learning, and discovery.

Eating food without fear of poisoning similarly relies on a heuristic that food obtained from trustworthy sources is safe to consume, based on past experience and societal norms, rather than faith in the absence of evidence.

I personally also like (along with other notable philosphers) to say that faith is "pretending to know something about that which you don't know." 

ZeusAres42

MayCaesar said:

ZeusAres42 said:
The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

I honestly do not think him a sophisticated enough thinker to even have "epistemology". As he himself says, he is run by blind faith: he lacks any toolset for acquiring knowledge as such.

I would still say he possesses epistemology; it just isn't based on anything decent or reliable at least when it comes to this. Faith-based claims are still knowledge claims. These religious individuals don't just 'believe'; they 'know' what they profess to claim about. Anyone can claim to know anything about something. And they can also believe that with 100 percent certaintity but that doesn't make it true. And these methods to attaining this knowledge/strong confictions can be very wild. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Ok, in response to your last request for just one question how about we start here:

How do you verify the historical accuracy of scriptural events and teachings, and what methods can be employed to test these against other historical documents or evidence, beyond merely observing the sun and moon and attributing their existence to God? 

Also, if you could reciprocate with the same courtesy and provide straight up answers, and that are also void of any deepities that would be nice. Thanks. 

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder

I trust the Holy Spirit's authority over the Scriptures and require no "historical verification"...but there are those writings from Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Elder and the Younger, Ignatius, Origen, Eusebius, if you're interested in historicity concerning the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit is my Teacher, not men.

Deepities are subjective and contingent upon the knowledge of the receiving party. If my words confuse you and the theology baffles you...that is NOT my problem, sorry. Also, please communicate with me prior to becoming inebriated as you're much easier to tolerate sober...thank you, again.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Once again, what you believe is irrelevant in the context of a debate. What you can justify logically is what is important, and to that end I am waiting for response to my argument.

@MayCaesar ;

That's a two-way street May...I consider what an atheist has to say as "irrelevant in the context of a debate"...get over it. "Logic" for me is Jesus as Creator...you have no argument...your entire worldview is nihilistic.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

I trust the Holy Spirit's authority over the Scriptures and require no "historical verification"...but there are those writings from Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Elder and the Younger, Ignatius, Origen, Eusebius, if you're interested in historicity concerning the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit is my Teacher, not men.

Deepities are subjective and contingent upon the knowledge of the receiving party. If my words confuse you and the theology baffles you...that is NOT my problem, sorry. Also, please communicate with me prior to becoming inebriated as you're much easier to tolerate sober...thank you, again.

If all you need is trust/faith then why say your belief is based on evidence? Why contradict yourself like that? 


Your words don't confuse me. I find a long winded response unecessary. Simple will suffice usually. 



And on the matter of subjectivity then how about you also address this question?

Considering your belief in an omnipotent Creator is based on observations of nature and further reinforced by Scripture, how do you distinguish between what might simply be subjective personal interpretations of these observations and what is objectively applicable evidence?

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

MayCaesar said:

ZeusAres42 said:
The fact that he is now getting defensive I guess is somewhat a result. My issue is not with him personally. My issue is with his very bad epistemology. My goal with this inquiry was to try to reinstall the gift of reason into him again and if not at least there would be others of faith but are actually more open to the gift of reason. IMO faith is evil, it's infectious, and it destroys lives; I say to those of faith "try and open your eyes to reason and embrace it's gift." 

@Factfinder

I honestly do not think him a sophisticated enough thinker to even have "epistemology". As he himself says, he is run by blind faith: he lacks any toolset for acquiring knowledge as such.

I would still say he possesses epistemology; it just isn't based on anything decent or reliable at least when it comes to this. Faith-based claims are still knowledge claims. These religious individuals don't just 'believe'; they 'know' what they profess to claim about. Anyone can claim to know anything about something. And they can also believe that with 100 percent certaintity but that doesn't make it true. And these methods to attaining this knowledge/strong confictions can be very wild. 

Willfully self delusion. Sad thing is this particular contagion cuts deep into a persons psyche. You feel special because god cares, god cares so you feel special. You receive special insight from a spirit no less. It is under the pretense of 'being guided by the holy spirit' do the faithful delude themselves into thinking extraordinary claims like 'blind faith = evidence because my book says so'. 

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Willfully self delusion. Sad thing is this particular contagion cuts deep into a persons psyche. You feel special because god cares, god cares so you feel special. You receive special insight from a spirit no less. It is under the pretense of 'being guided by the holy spirit' do the faithful delude themselves into thinking extraordinary claims like 'blind faith = evidence because my book says so'. 

"I mean that we do not infer that our faith is true based on any sort of evidence or proof, but that in the context of the Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, we see immediately and unmistakably that our faith is true. God's spirit makes it evident to us that our faith is true." - William Lane Craig, Hard Questions, Real Answers, (2003, p. 35)

At least he is honest about his abandonment of reason. Right now, these two are trying to claim that their beliefs are based on evidence, reason, logic, etc. 

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

@Factfinder

Willfully self delusion. Sad thing is this particular contagion cuts deep into a persons psyche. You feel special because god cares, god cares so you feel special. You receive special insight from a spirit no less. It is under the pretense of 'being guided by the holy spirit' do the faithful delude themselves into thinking extraordinary claims like 'blind faith = evidence because my book says so'. 

"I mean that we do not infer that our faith is true based on any sort of evidence or proof, but that in the context of the Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, we see immediately and unmistakably that our faith is true. God's spirit makes it evident to us that our faith is true." - William Lane Craig, Hard Questions, Real Answers, (2003, p. 35)

At least he is honest about his abandonment of reason. Right now, these two are trying to claim that their beliefs are based on evidence, reason, logic, etc. 

That is true.

MayCaesar

ZeusAres42 said:

I would still say he possesses epistemology; it just isn't based on anything decent or reliable at least when it comes to this. Faith-based claims are still knowledge claims. These religious individuals don't just 'believe'; they 'know' what they profess to claim about. Anyone can claim to know anything about something. And they can also believe that with 100 percent certaintity but that doesn't make it true. And these methods to attaining this knowledge/strong confictions can be very wild. 

I suppose that is fair. I would, however, make an addition in line with what I wrote before: that these people actually have a pretty decent epistemology when it comes to more immediate issues. For example, it does not take them long to learn not to touch a hot stove: a couple of burns, and they have acquired a valid knowledge. It is only when it comes to these ethereal concepts - "god", "afterlife", "the judgement day" - when their epistemology goes sideways.

As such, I see only two possibilities:

1. They do not truly believe these things. They tell themselves and others that they do because they feel that believing them is noble - but when push comes to shove, they do not believe them in the full sense of the word. If they were put in the situation where holding on to these beliefs was clearly detrimental to their well-being, they would not just pretend temporarily not to hold them - they would fully acknowledge that they do not hold them.
2. They do truly believe these things. In this case, their mind is split apart: it works in two different modes depending on the subject of the discussion.

Both of these possibilities are quite damning, but I just do not see a realistic third option.

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;

That's a two-way street May...I consider what an atheist has to say as "irrelevant in the context of a debate"...get over it. "Logic" for me is Jesus as Creator...you have no argument...your entire worldview is nihilistic.

Well, if you are in the business of redefining English words now, then this conversation is truly pointless. And no, I am not a nihilist: I am very passionate about my life and have a lot of goals I am striving to accomplish and dreams to become reality. I would venture that I see much more meaning in my life, than someone who sees this life as merely a bridge to the "afterlife".

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

ZeusAres42 said:

I would still say he possesses epistemology; it just isn't based on anything decent or reliable at least when it comes to this. Faith-based claims are still knowledge claims. These religious individuals don't just 'believe'; they 'know' what they profess to claim about. Anyone can claim to know anything about something. And they can also believe that with 100 percent certaintity but that doesn't make it true. And these methods to attaining this knowledge/strong confictions can be very wild. 

I suppose that is fair. I would, however, make an addition in line with what I wrote before: that these people actually have a pretty decent epistemology when it comes to more immediate issues. For example, it does not take them long to learn not to touch a hot stove: a couple of burns, and they have acquired a valid knowledge. It is only when it comes to these ethereal concepts - "god", "afterlife", "the judgement day" - when their epistemology goes sideways.

As such, I see only two possibilities:

1. They do not truly believe these things. They tell themselves and others that they do because they feel that believing them is noble - but when push comes to shove, they do not believe them in the full sense of the word. If they were put in the situation where holding on to these beliefs was clearly detrimental to their well-being, they would not just pretend temporarily not to hold them - they would fully acknowledge that they do not hold them.
2. They do truly believe these things. In this case, their mind is split apart: it works in two different modes depending on the subject of the discussion.

Both of these possibilities are quite damning, but I just do not see a realistic third option.

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ;

That's a two-way street May...I consider what an atheist has to say as "irrelevant in the context of a debate"...get over it. "Logic" for me is Jesus as Creator...you have no argument...your entire worldview is nihilistic.

Well, if you are in the business of redefining English words now, then this conversation is truly pointless. And no, I am not a nihilist: I am very passionate about my life and have a lot of goals I am striving to accomplish and dreams to become reality. I would venture that I see much more meaning in my life, than someone who sees this life as merely a bridge to the "afterlife".

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 If matters NOT your passion, you're headed to death in Hell and an eternity defined by NIHILISM...you are wasting your life in servitude to the Devil...you exist in spiritual darkness and you contribute NOTHING to the Kingdom. It matters not how you see your life constrained by Time and physics when you not living the life ordained for you by your Creator, but your living a life in servitude to our Creator's nemesis. This life in Time is very temporary; Eternity if forever. Jesus is your only Hope for meaning, life, truth, peace.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

I trust the Holy Spirit's authority over the Scriptures and require no "historical verification"...but there are those writings from Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Elder and the Younger, Ignatius, Origen, Eusebius, if you're interested in historicity concerning the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit is my Teacher, not men.

Deepities are subjective and contingent upon the knowledge of the receiving party. If my words confuse you and the theology baffles you...that is NOT my problem, sorry. Also, please communicate with me prior to becoming inebriated as you're much easier to tolerate sober...thank you, again.

If all you need is trust/faith then why say your belief is based on evidence? Why contradict yourself like that? 


Your words don't confuse me. I find a long winded response unecessary. Simple will suffice usually. 



And on the matter of subjectivity then how about you also address this question?

Considering your belief in an omnipotent Creator is based on observations of nature and further reinforced by Scripture, how do you distinguish between what might simply be subjective personal interpretations of these observations and what is objectively applicable evidence?

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar

1) It is the "evidence" of the creation narrative that consumes my senses 24/7/365 that engenders faith that there is a Creator, an omnipotent Designer who is worthy of my attention. This omnipotent Creator has carefully made the effort to identify Himself personally in His written word and in His Living Word, Jesus Christ (John 1). The is why the Holy Spirit tells you emphatically that those who deny our Creator are "without excuse" (Romans 1:20) because the evidence of His power and sovereignty are discerned through what He has made and placed before us 24/7/365 and His written words, carefully preserved by the Holy Spirit, and His Living Word, Jesus Christ (John 1) who is the physical manifestation of Elohim who walked among us (Colossians 1; John 1) are undeniable "evidence" that our sovereign and omnipotent Creator is a reality and we are His created beings and are therefore beholden to Him as our GOD!

2) If I respond succinctly...you accuse me of not answering your essay questionS.

3) It is not possible to be "subjective" about what I see in Nature and what is written in the Canon and what has manifest through Jesus' 3.5-year ministry upon this Earth. I cannot deny what I see, what I have internalized walking with the Holy Spirit for over 30-years...my Lord has NEVER failed me...His peace and goodness are beyond understanding and human comprehension - He is my BEST FRIEND...My Lord is more "real" to me than anything tangible within the Realm of Time.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 If matters NOT your passion, you're headed to death in Hell and an eternity defined by NIHILISM...you are wasting your life in servitude to the Devil...you exist in spiritual darkness and you contribute NOTHING to the Kingdom. It matters not how you see your life constrained by Time and physics when you not living the life ordained for you by your Creator, but your living a life in servitude to our Creator's nemesis. This life in Time is very temporary; Eternity if forever. Jesus is your only Hope for meaning, life, truth, peace.

I think you are getting it backwards, my friend. You are obsessed with everyone's fate after death, which means that your current life is meaningless, it is just a temporary vessel - therefore, you are the nihilist. I, on the other hand, am living my life to the fullest and find a lot of meaning in it.

You are so disinterested in this reality, you do not even read what you are replying to. As usual, your comment has zero to do with what I said. Just more mindless preaching.

Let us grab the bull by its horns, shall we? Christians are the ultimate nihilists.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 If matters NOT your passion, you're headed to death in Hell and an eternity defined by NIHILISM...you are wasting your life in servitude to the Devil...you exist in spiritual darkness and you contribute NOTHING to the Kingdom. It matters not how you see your life constrained by Time and physics when you not living the life ordained for you by your Creator, but your living a life in servitude to our Creator's nemesis. This life in Time is very temporary; Eternity if forever. Jesus is your only Hope for meaning, life, truth, peace.

I think you are getting it backwards, my friend. You are obsessed with everyone's fate after death, which means that your current life is meaningless, it is just a temporary vessel - therefore, you are the nihilist. I, on the other hand, am living my life to the fullest and find a lot of meaning in it.

You are so disinterested in this reality, you do not even read what you are replying to. As usual, your comment has zero to do with what I said. Just more mindless preaching.

Let us grab the bull by its horns, shall we? Christians are the ultimate nihilists.

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder

First of all, we're NOT "friends," and second...I'm simply telling you where you're headed in accordance with the Scriptures...you serve the Devil, you'll suffer a fate similar to his in Hell (Revelation 20:10-15). This is simply Scriptural Truth.

The life of an atheist is a life of nihilism in Time and in Eternity.

No one can fully realize the potential of this life lest they've surrendered their will for the will of our Creator in Jesus Christ; this by faith and they receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as their Teacher and Wisdom.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder

First of all, we're NOT "friends," and second...I'm simply telling you where you're headed in accordance with the Scriptures...you serve the Devil, you'll suffer a fate similar to his in Hell (Revelation 20:10-15). This is simply Scriptural Truth.

The life of an atheist is a life of nihilism in Time and in Eternity.

No one can fully realize the potential of this life lest they've surrendered their will for the will of our Creator in Jesus Christ; this by faith and they receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as their Teacher and Wisdom.

I think you are just saying random things at this point. Quit drinking, grandpa.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder

First of all, we're NOT "friends," and second...I'm simply telling you where you're headed in accordance with the Scriptures...you serve the Devil, you'll suffer a fate similar to his in Hell (Revelation 20:10-15). This is simply Scriptural Truth.

The life of an atheist is a life of nihilism in Time and in Eternity.

No one can fully realize the potential of this life lest they've surrendered their will for the will of our Creator in Jesus Christ; this by faith and they receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as their Teacher and Wisdom.

I think you are just saying random things at this point. Quit drinking, grandpa.

@MayCaesar ;  I'm telling you the truth...you are dying in your sin...unless you repent and sincerely trust in Jesus as your Messiah, you have no hope of life now or in eternity...without Jesus, your entire existence is wastefulness. Jesus gave Himself so that you could live in Him eternally. Please listen to this old "grandpa."

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Oh, you are telling me the truth... Now that is quite an argument! I am totally convinced now.

Grandpas are cute to listen to, but many of them are quite far gone. We have one as president now, and apparently we also have one as the resident preacher.

Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Oh, you are telling me the truth... Now that is quite an argument! I am totally convinced now.

Grandpas are cute to listen to, but many of them are quite far gone. We have one as president now, and apparently we also have one as the resident preacher.

The only evidence ricky has ever introduced has been inadvertently. It's pretty clear christianity ain't nothing but cult. The evidence says it all. 

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

1) It is the "evidence" of the creation narrative that consumes my senses 24/7/365 that engenders faith that there is a Creator, an omnipotent Designer who is worthy of my attention. 

Which creator? Hindu in origin? Abrahamic? What is the 'evidence' that points to your specific god? What model did you use to test it? 

Without saying 'god did it' or using bible verses, will you explain in detail the origins of life, the human gnome, and the universe? You know, just elaborate on the method your god of choice used during each step of the creation process. I'll await your knowledgeable response and again, "god did it" and the bible don't count. Faith don't count. Your well informed opinion based on what you know academically is what I'm asking for. 

MayCaesar

@Factfinder

It is always like this.

"It is so obvious that the Bible is true!"
"Oh, okay, if it is obvious, then it should not be hard to prove it, right? Please go ahead."
*silence* / *excuse* / *threats* / etc.

One of my math professors back in Russia coined this awesome counter to a student refusing to provide a formal proof of something on the grounds of it being "obvious". He would say, "Obvious things are great: they are especially easy to prove". In practice, when someone says that something is so obvious, it does not need proving, it almost always is something untrue.

Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

@Factfinder

It is always like this.

"It is so obvious that the Bible is true!"
"Oh, okay, if it is obvious, then it should not be hard to prove it, right? Please go ahead."
*silence* / *excuse* / *threats* / etc.

One of my math professors back in Russia coined this awesome counter to a student refusing to provide a formal proof of something on the grounds of it being "obvious". He would say, "Obvious things are great: they are especially easy to prove". In practice, when someone says that something is so obvious, it does not need proving, it almost always is something untrue.

Yes he is hell bent on special pleading. He honestly doesn't get that we can't just change our minds; and find something believable that we didn't see that way a moment ago. 

MayCaesar

@Factfinder

I mean, I am open (or, at least, I strive to be) to changing my mind on anything, provided a good enough argument has been made. This guy though does not even make an argument, he just preaches, hoping, I guess, that the sheer volume of words is going to overwhelm us?

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Oh, you are telling me the truth... Now that is quite an argument! I am totally convinced now.

Grandpas are cute to listen to, but many of them are quite far gone. We have one as president now, and apparently we also have one as the resident preacher.

@MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ;

You won't be convinced, your demon won't permit it.

I am simply one who loves Jesus Christ and find Him to be the focus of all life and purpose and Eternity. If you don't desire to listen to what I have to say, why continue to respond? I think you're desperate and you know you're in a desperate state and the death in Hell that awaits you. Yet you're too proud and to demonically persuaded to give Jesus a chance just as @Factfinder and @ZeusAres42 are.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

MayCaesar said:

@Factfinder

It is always like this.

"It is so obvious that the Bible is true!"
"Oh, okay, if it is obvious, then it should not be hard to prove it, right? Please go ahead."
*silence* / *excuse* / *threats* / etc.

One of my math professors back in Russia coined this awesome counter to a student refusing to provide a formal proof of something on the grounds of it being "obvious". He would say, "Obvious things are great: they are especially easy to prove". In practice, when someone says that something is so obvious, it does not need proving, it almost always is something untrue.

Yes he is hell bent on special pleading. He honestly doesn't get that we can't just change our minds; and find something believable that we didn't see that way a moment ago. 

@Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ; @MayCaesar ;  Never mind me...I enjoy bantering with your demon...

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Nah, not desperate. Just mild curiosity concerning the mind of those with no reasoning ability.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Nah, not desperate. Just mild curiosity concerning the mind of those with no reasoning ability.

@Factfinder ;  It's YOUR life and your eternity...enjoy. At least you've been told.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

1) It is the "evidence" of the creation narrative that consumes my senses 24/7/365 that engenders faith that there is a Creator, an omnipotent Designer who is worthy of my attention. 

Which creator? Hindu in origin? Abrahamic? What is the 'evidence' that points to your specific god? What model did you use to test it? 

Without saying 'god did it' or using bible verses, will you explain in detail the origins of life, the human gnome, and the universe? You know, just elaborate on the method your god of choice used during each step of the creation process. I'll await your knowledgeable response and again, "god did it" and the bible don't count. Faith don't count. Your well informed opinion based on what you know academically is what I'm asking for.