Does alcohol cause cancer?

Dreamer

@PorfirioDiaz

You make some good points, but then you spread a myth about a person being a centenarian before alcohol does major harm. I've seen first hand the long term effects of heavy drinking in people far below 100 years of age. Its downright traumatizing to be around and see the long term effects happen to someone you care about.

Dreamer

@Just_Sayin "For example, you have said we should not allow alcohol consumption because it causes health problems and drunk driving causes deaths"

Strawperson argument:

Here's what I said:

""higher excise taxes, limits on the number of outlets selling alcohol in a particular area, stricter enforcement of underage drinking laws, and caps on the numbers of days and hours when alcohol can be sold. There’s a huge body of research supporting the effectiveness of these policies" motherjones

I never said we shouldn't allow alcohol consumption, in fact I think alochol should be legal for many reasons. The only group of people who I said shouldn't be able to drink are underage individuals.

Next you use a whataboutism trying to compare HIV to alcoholism. First, and foremost technology has increase and helped a lot, HIV is not the death sentence it used to be. Second, we could make comparisons all day, but how is that relevant?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1500-americans-dying-covid-week/story?id=106237143

Its like saying 1,500 people die per week still of covid, and then someone saying, well what about all the people who die of drowning and car accidents? So what, that's the point to be a distraction a red herring.

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;heroin is far less harmless than alcohol in terms of its affects and the side affects and social affects. 

So if you disagree with all the medical research and findings that alcohol is much more harmful than heroin where is your evidence?

Surely a person of your grate stature and experience will be quick to provide evidence to back up your claim. So are we going to see your reason and or evidence?

Joeseph

@Dreamer

You're a dishonest troll no one is arguing about long term excessive drinking and its effects and you know it.

Joeseph

@Barnardot

ARGUMENT TOPIC : BARNDOOR SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT .....AGAIN

***So if you disagree with all the medical research and findings that alcohol is much more harmful than heroin where is your evidence?***

Where is this research that says alchohol.is much more harmful than heroin?

I'll wait while you post it up ......hurry up...

***Surely a person of your grate stature and experience will be quick to provide evidence to back up your claim. ***

What claim do you want me to back up exactly?

***So are we going to see your reason and or evidence?***

I hope I do from you and your pal Dreamer for your claim that alchohol is far more harmful.than heroin .

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;ARGUMENT TOPIC : BARNDOOR SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT .....AGAIN

So here we go again with the resident lieing nit carrying on and we all know that he will never answer a question hes been done like toast on and made a grate bo boo as usual. So all you really need to do is keep scoffing down all your Guiness sewer water and Jameson gut rot and it will be no surprise that all the village hippies who did heroin will still be alive and laughing there heads off at your funeral.

Joeseph

@Barnardot

ARGUMENT TOPIC: BARNDOOR CAUGHT BY HIS OWN ST-PIDITY AGAIN ........

BARNDOOR STATES ........ alchohol.is much more harmful than heroin YET CANNOT BACK IT UP .........I WIN AGAN

just_sayin

Dreamer said:

@Just_Sayin "For example, you have said we should not allow alcohol consumption because it causes health problems and drunk driving causes deaths"

Strawperson argument:

Here's what I said:

""higher excise taxes, limits on the number of outlets selling alcohol in a particular area, stricter enforcement of underage drinking laws, and caps on the numbers of days and hours when alcohol can be sold. There’s a huge body of research supporting the effectiveness of these policies" motherjones

I never said we shouldn't allow alcohol consumption, in fact I think alochol should be legal for many reasons. The only group of people who I said shouldn't be able to drink are underage individuals.

Next you use a whataboutism trying to compare HIV to alcoholism. First, and foremost technology has increase and helped a lot, HIV is not the death sentence it used to be. Second, we could make comparisons all day, but how is that relevant?

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1500-americans-dying-covid-week/story?id=106237143

Its like saying 1,500 people die per week still of covid, and then someone saying, well what about all the people who die of drowning and car accidents? So what, that's the point to be a distraction a red herring.

I think you are not aware of the health risks of same sex sex.  First, how many years does alcohol consumption shorten an average lifespan:  From Abbey Care

Combined analysis in 2018 by Angela M Wood PhD et al found that drinking more than 100g of alcohol each week - equivalent to five pints of beer or large glasses of wine - led to a reduced lifespan of between 6 months to 4-5 years [3].

The Lancet study illustrated:

• Regularly drinking between 100-200g per week regularly reduces lifespan by 6 months.
• Regularly drinking between 200-300g per week reduces lifespan by 1-2 years.
• Regularly drinking more than 350g per week reduces lifespan by 4-5 years.

So heavy drinking shortens their life by 4-5 years.  Whereas multiple studies show that:

"homosexual activity may be associated with a lifespan shortened by 20 to 30 years."

Wow.  Homosexual activity will shorten the average person's life by 20 to 30 years!!!!  If health concerns are the driving concern for you to restrict alcohol consumption, they why aren't you calling for restricting same-sex relationships?  That's not a  whataboutism, but a valid comparison of a behavior that reduces lifespans by 4 to 6 times what heavy drinking reduces a lifespan.    Why the fixation on alcohol and not other behaviors which kill and shorten lifespans?

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Just_trollin strikes again.

I don't normally respond to trolls, but the flaw is so extreme and obvious I felt I should make an exception.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/jun/07/bob-marshall/bob-marshall-says-homosexual-behavior-cuts-life-ex/

Yes, let's cherry pick a study from the nineties and ignore that technology changed drastically in the relevant field since then. Climate change deniers do this too. Cherry pick an old study when there was still room for good faith scientific debate on the subject.

At the end of the day that's all the deniers have, a cheap bag of tricks.

Dreamer

Just_trollin should start their own thread instead of threadjacking. I will also respond that the life expectancy can be shorter due to discrimination, stigma, and criminalization of a systematically marginalized group.

Usually a trifecta of hateful rhetoric, laws, and violence can lead to anxiety and stress which can cause many adverse health effects including suicide. Just take the example of the myth that you can cure a lesbian by raping her. That's bound to lower her life expectancy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape

There seems to be no limit to the depth that some users will sink to.

Factfinder

@Barnardot

Totally get your point. Someone on heroine is in control most of the time where as drunks are completely out of control, on several levels. Statistics confirm far more drunk drivers kill people than junkies. 

just_sayin

Dreamer said:

I don't normally respond to trolls, but the flaw is so extreme and obvious I felt I should make an exception.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/jun/07/bob-marshall/bob-marshall-says-homosexual-behavior-cuts-life-ex/

Yes, let's cherry pick a study from the nineties and ignore that technology changed drastically in the relevant field since then. Climate change deniers do this too. Cherry pick an old study when there was still room for good faith scientific debate on the subject.

At the end of the day that's all the deniers have, a cheap bag of tricks.

Your factcheck site had you taken the time to look at it admitted that the authors of the study admit the data is true.  Secondly, they never did another study.  So there was no basis for a false rating because there was no contradictory evidence. The study is not cherry picked as dozens of studies showed the same data. In fact, my study isn't that one, but as I referenced a study of studies which reviewed 4 studies.

Now, I am sure that HIV is less of a killer today, however, most deaths don't come from HIV for LGBTQ+ people.  I posted this information in another thread.  

From Health  (its from 2022)

Here is a list of increased health risks

1) Increased risk of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV.  Adolescent and adult gay and bisexual men made up 68% of new HIV diagnoses in the United States in 2018.

Gay and bisexual men are also at a higher risk for other STIs than others. Chlamydia, syphilis, and gonorrhea also significantly increase the risk of getting or transmitting HIV.

Additionally, some evidence suggests that LGBTQ+ people are more likely to have the human papillomavirus virus (HPV). Gay, bisexual, and MSM are 20 times more likely than heterosexual men to develop anal cancer (Patel P, Bush T, Kojic EM, et al. Prevalence, Incidence, and Clearance of Anal High-Risk Human Papillomavirus Infection Among HIV-Infected Men in the SUN Study. J Infect Dis. 2018;217(6):953-963. doi:10.1093/infdis/jix607)

 Certain strains of HPV cause anal cancer. Also, some strains of HPV are the cause of cervical cancer. But it's also a risk factor for anogenital cancers. HPV also links to head and neck malignancies due to transmission of the virus via oral sex.

2) Higher rates of partner violence

3) Substance Abuse

Research has found that people who identify as lesbian or gay are more than twice as likely as people who identify as heterosexual to abuse alcohol or tobacco. And people who identify as bisexual are three times as likely.(Boyd CJ, Veliz PT, Stephenson R, Hughes TL, McCabe SE. Severity of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Drug Use Disorders Among Sexual Minority Individuals and Their "Not Sure" Counterparts. LGBT Health. 2019;6(1):15-22. doi:10.1089/lgbt.2018.0122)

4) Greater Risk of Mental Health Conditions

5) Greater Risk of Obesity and Eating Disorders

Research has found that bisexual and lesbian women were more likely to be overweight or obese than women who identify as heterosexual.

6) Increased Risk of Breast and Cervical Cancer

7) Heart Disease

Research has found that lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults have a higher risk of heart disease and other cardiac problems than others. 

You can also see the National Health Statistics Report for 2022

Try and be more discerning in your sources next time, Dreamer.  

And you never answered the question I put forward, why should we restrict alcohol but not sexual behaviors that shorten a person's life by more than heavy alcohol use?  Please answer the question.  

Factfinder

@just_sayin

Why are you talking about gays? This thread is about alcohol. 

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

@just_sayin

Why are you talking about gays? This thread is about alcohol. 

I agree.  Initially, I asked @Dreamer why he was willing to severely restrict alcohol consumption because of health concerns, but did not apply that same logic to other issues, like sexual health issues.  He didn't answer that question and instead tried to claim that there are no increased health issues for certain sexual practices.  

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;but did not apply that same logic to other issues, like sexual health issues

And do heteros have sexual health issues? Yes they do. So why do you turn negative sexual health issues as being about gays? Because your a pervert thats why.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin ;but did not apply that same logic to other issues, like sexual health issues

And do heteros have sexual health issues? Yes they do. So why do you turn negative sexual health issues as being about gays? Because your a pervert thats why.

Bernie, that is not true, why in another thread I just told you to not put your pecker on your chicken's pecker, no matter how clean she says she is.  I am most certainly looking out for your health also 

GiantMan

Dreamer said:

Just_trollin should start their own thread instead of threadjacking. I will also respond that the life expectancy can be shorter due to discrimination, stigma, and criminalization of a systematically marginalized group.

Usually a trifecta of hateful rhetoric, laws, and violence can lead to anxiety and stress which can cause many adverse health effects including suicide. Just take the example of the myth that you can cure a lesbian by raping her. That's bound to lower her life expectancy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape

There seems to be no limit to the depth that some users will sink to.

You avoided his point.  Why do you think the government should be used to restrict alcohol, but not other things that can be bad for you?

Dreamer

I will respond about gays and alcoholism.

"Alcohol and drug use among some gay and bisexual men can be a reaction to homophobia, discrimination, or violence they experienced due to their sexual orientation and can contribute to other mental health and physical problems." cdc

Read How Fascism works in how a marginalized group can be pressured into fitting a stereotype by a dominant group. You know if people run around murdering trans people their friends might turn to alcohol. Or if a gay individual is kicked out of their home by their parents.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/02/lgbtq-homeless-youths-family-rejection/11535821002/

This is an old trick, American Indians lands were stolen and children forced into ethnocide boarding schools where they were raped. No surprise wen they turn to alcohol to drown their sorrows and were stereotyped for drinking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

just_sayin

Dreamer said:

I will respond about gays and alcoholism.

"Alcohol and drug use among some gay and bisexual men can be a reaction to homophobia, discrimination, or violence they experienced due to their sexual orientation and can contribute to other mental health and physical problems." cdc

Read How Fascism works in how a marginalized group can be pressured into fitting a stereotype by a dominant group. You know if people run around murdering trans people their friends might turn to alcohol. Or if a gay individual is kicked out of their home by their parents.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/02/lgbtq-homeless-youths-family-rejection/11535821002/

This is an old trick, American Indians lands were stolen and children forced into ethnocide boarding schools where they were raped. No surprise wen they turn to alcohol to drown their sorrows and were stereotyped for drinking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

Dreamer,  the question is why do you think it is OK to use the government to force the restricted use of alcohol, but not other behaviors which put people's lives at risk.  You have not explained why alcohol is special and should be restricted, while other behaviors should not be restricted.  That's a legitimate question you continue to dodge.  You have not explained why alcohol is a special use case.  If you can't explain that point, then alcohol should be considered like we do other behaviors that can put someone's life at risk, and not be treated as special and deserving of government action to keep people from drinking.

Dreamer

Just_Sayin

But I do want the government to limit other activities.

"

The 6 MPOWER measures are:

• Monitor tobacco use and prevention policies.
• Protect people from tobacco use.
• Offer help to quit tobacco use.
• Warn about the dangers of tobacco.
• Enforce bans on tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship.
• Raise taxes on tobacco."

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

Just as I want roundabouts, speed limits, air bags, and seat belt laws.

Dreamer

The crux of the problem is bad actors aren't limiting risky activities they are simply being bigots and sometimes its difficult to tell with all the dog whistling.

"In 13 states, laws require people with HIV who are aware of their status to disclose their status to sex partners, and 4 states require disclosure to needle-sharing partners."

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/states/exposure.html

Besides they are many laws in place about HIV, you don't see me challenging them. Can you please keep this about alcoholism or start a new thread?

just_sayin

Dreamer said:

Just_Sayin

But I do want the government to limit other activities.

"

The 6 MPOWER measures are:

• Monitor tobacco use and prevention policies.
• Protect people from tobacco use.
• Offer help to quit tobacco use.
• Warn about the dangers of tobacco.
• Enforce bans on tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship.
• Raise taxes on tobacco."

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco

Just as I want roundabouts, speed limits, air bags, and seat belt laws.

Sigh,  I just don't think you are understanding why this is such a fatal flaw in your argument.  You want to use government to further restrict alcohol consumption on the basis that there are health risks.  You sited cancer risks as a reason for more restrictions on alcohol.  You have not explained why other behaviors that can cause cancers and that have been shown to reduce life expectancy more than alcohol, such as some sexual behaviors, should be protected while alcohol is further restricted.  You have not explained why alcohol should be treated differently than the other things that also cause cancer and reduce one's lifespan.  The fact you want to mandate other things like roundabouts, does not explain why you favor certain behaviors being governmentally regulated more and why you don't want others regulated.  If you can't explain why alcohol is a special use case, then that suggests that your desire to legislate it more is driven from capricious and selfish purposes, and not the public good.  You see this as changing the subject, but it is not.  You have failed to provide a logically consistent argument about why alcohol should be further restricted while other behaviors that are associated with serious health issues should not be regulated.

Joeseph

@Dreamer

You call anyone who disagrees with your nonsense a bigot. No one ever denied excessive alcholol consumption was dangerous yet moderate alchohol consumption has medical benefits yet another medical fact , your denial of reality demonstrates clearly your opinion on such matters is totally skewed as its biased and purely an emotional argument void of meaningful implication.

Dreamer

@Joeseph

No, I don't that's a strawperson argument. Drinking ethanol has no health benefits. Yes, eating grapes are healthy and a weak argument could be made for drinking one glass of red wine a day.

Moderate drinking is a big booze propaganda point amplified by lobbying, advertising, and non-profit industry front groups see links in previous comments. 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/consumer-and-public-health-groups-push-for-cancer-warning-on-alcoholic-beverages/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/04/did-drinking-give-me-breast-cancer/

"Even so, the US wine industry lobbied to include a positive health message about alcohol in the 1995 Dietary Guidelines for Americans published by the Department of Agriculture."

"The Foundation for Advancing Alcohol Responsibility, funded by companies such as Bacardi and Diageo, paid for journalists to attend workshops last year held by the Poynter Institute, the self-appointed watchdog of journalism ethics. “The conflict of interest is so big it makes me gasp"

"In 2009, that figure had jumped to more than 60,000, and many ads targeted TV audiences with large numbers of viewers too young to drink legally."

At this point your arguments show denial. Which usually means conspiratorial thinking is involved.

Joeseph

@Dreamer

You do , anyone who disagrees with you on any subject  is called a bigot or  conspiracy theorist   you're incapable of seeing the other side in an argument.

Your denial.of medical facts proves how biased and skewed your view are.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-drinks/drinks-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/#:~:text=Moderate drinking seems to be,preventable death in most countries.



At this point your arguments show denial. Which usually means conspiratorial thinking is involved.

Dreamer

From your own link:

"If you don’t drink, there’s no need to start. You can get similar benefits with exercise (beginning to exercise if you don’t already or boosting the intensity and duration of your activity) or healthier eating."

Joeseph

@Dreamer

But you don't need  to eat chocolate , go swimming , ride a ferris wheel either stop being such an awful killjoy   do you actually ever stop complaining?

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;do you actually ever stop complaining?

Says the banned nit who is for ever complaining about every body else complaining. But then every body else is complaining. There complaining about the length of time ists taking to get the resident liering complaining nit kicked off again

Joeseph

@Barnardot


I'm not banned you clown , btw you're the only one who constantly runs to the man whining and calling for bans , you never participate as you're incapable as your st-pidity is different level run along and whine about the bad men you saw having a beer you big puff

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;I'm not banned you clown

Derr oh yeah Im sorry about that> I got you totally mixed up with that 100% total deceiving liering nit Dee. So sorry about that because it would be the biggest insult to confuse any one with that nit dont you think?

Joeseph

@Barnardot

Dee was the top of the leader board you're still the bottom .....you're a loser.

I might get FactDenier to beat you up he's a war hero ......he's having trouble finding his army ID though .....maybe it will show up yet ...ROFLMAO

Barnardot

@Joeseph ;Dee was the top of the leader board you're still the bottom .....you're a loser.

I might get FactDenier to beat you up he's a war hero ......he's having trouble finding his army ID though .....maybe it will show up yet ...ROFLMAO

Well at least you have advanced enough to learn how to copy and paste exactly the same dum comment you all ready posted before.

You are making progress.

The trouble is that evolution makes progress also but the thing is it takes more than a million years for an appendix to dissapear.

So the chances of you behaving any where near like a human as we know it within the next few thousand years are pretty slim to say the lest.

Joeseph

@Barnardot





Poor Barndoor the site r-tard running around the site saying to everyone...." yur dum, "....." when ye anerlise it" ......" I no  sciency things" .........." yo mama fat" ......" yur a ho mo " .......good man Barny you go son ......are you wearing your play helmet?

Dreamer

"“There has long been this idea that alcohol is good for the heart, but more and more evidence is challenging that notion,” Rana wrote."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2024/03/28/alcohol-heart-disease-women/

A lot of bad ideas are obsolete ideas based upon faulty studies.

Factfinder

Joeseph said:

@Barnardot

Dee was the top of the leader board you're still the bottom .....you're a loser.

I might get FactDenier to beat you up he's a war hero ......he's having trouble finding his army ID though .....maybe it will show up yet ...ROFLMAO

You deny the fact you never won a debate, hypocritically. Having trouble finding your IRA child bombing "commander" Id sill? LOL

Joeseph

@Dreamer

Superb argument , any link you disagree with is a :faulty study" , prove it?