Does lenient law enforcement foment crime? Does harsh enforcement reduce crime?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack Three-strikes you're out...three felonies...25-life. It works...I know...I policed it. A rather small segment of society is responsible for the majority of felonious crime; therefore, take these turds off the street, confine them...keep them confined...crime stats go down....I noted this during my 31-year tenure with the Houston PD...when "three-strikes you are out" was policy...the streets were rather quiet.

jack

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@jack Three-strikes you're out...three felonies...25-life. It works...I know...I policed it.

Hello Rickey:

Oh, there's no doubt you threw your share of people in jail.  And, I'm sure you violated their rights when you did it.  However, I wonder if you couldn't show a graph, or a newspaper article from your neck of the woods that shows your kind of treatment lowered the crime rate.  

I'm asking for, you know, proof.  Your flapping gums don't count. 

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack ; How are you "sure" I "violated rights?" What do you know but the rhetoric of a fool absorbed with narcissism, arrogance, democrat-liberal I-d-i-o-c-y.

jack

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@jack ; How are you "sure" I "violated rights?"

Hello again, Rickey:

Let me take a stab at it..  The Bill of Rights protects citizens like me, FROM scumbag tyrants like you..  As amply demonstrated across these pages every day, you cannot possibly treat "turds" and "demons from hell" constitutionally...  It's simply not  possible. 

We know what kind of cop you are.

excon

MichaelElpers

@jack

Let me ask. Would you be more or less likely to steal if there is no consequence, small fine, jail time, death sentence?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack ; The Bill of Rights guarantees you certain inalienable rights granted you by your Creator and when you violate those rights as an "excon" I become involved and cuff-stuff-charge you with the violation of those rights...that's called "law enforcement" excon...and those who violate the laws with repetitiveness are "turds" and deserve incarceration apart from a society seeking sustainable norms, mores, values...you should know this as turd "excon."

 

jack

MichaelElpers said:

@jack

Let me ask. Would you be more or less likely to steal if there is no consequence, small fine, jail time, death sentence?

Hello M:

I don't know..  What I DO know, is the present system isn't working..  

Lemme ask you this.  Do you believe corporal punishment teaches children right from wrong?  According to Psychology Today, it seems a more orderly society comes from those who weren't spanked.. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/201802/the-spanking-debate-is-over

I encourage you to read the attached research article by the National Library of Medicine entitled "Prioritization of Careral Spending in US cities and the role of race and income inequality".  It'll shed some light on our plight.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0276818#:~:text=Municipal prioritization of carceral investments over health and,as a structural determinant of health and safety.

The conclusions I presented above come from that paper.

excon

jack

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@jack ; The Bill of Rights guarantees you certain inalienable rights granted you by your Creator and when you violate those rights.

Hello Rickey:

Again, you demonstrate your ignorance of the very laws you were sworn to protect..  Lemme say again, the Bill of Rights PROTECTS citizens like me FROM ignorant tyrants like you..  Your job is to PROTECT those rights, not VIOLATE them.  I CAN'T violate those rights.  Only YOU can violate those rights.  Since you don't know how it works, I assume you violated all the citizens rights you came into contact with under color of law. 

You ARE the problem..

excon

RickeyHoltsclaw

@jack ; No, the Bill of Rights grants your the rights granted you by our Creator....if you were not lawless and narcissistic, you would not have to worry about me or other officers.

MichaelElpers

@jack

I was responding to your thesis that policing and or police presence has no effect on crime. Thats clearly ludicrous.

I believe spanking children teaxhes right from wrong better than doing nothing. Is it the most efficient probably not.

Its basically just a supply and demand curve.  Lets say we have people that want to cheat on a test. Clearly that number would go down the harsher the penalty of being caught.  In addition, if you add more teachers/observers of the students increasing the chance of being caught the number would also go down.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@jack ; No, the Bill of Rights grants your the rights granted you by our Creator....if you were not lawless and narcissistic, you would not have to worry about me or other officers.

Unless a bad cop like you comes along who violates their rights and railroaded lots of people just because they didn't believe in your dumb childish fairytales or evil god whore.

Joeseph

@MichaelElpers

***
I believe spanking children teaches right from wrong better than doing nothing. Is it the most efficient probably no***

What you're basically saying and demonstrating to the child is the fact that you're incapable of reasoning with him/ her so violence is your best solution.

You're guilty of child abuse and actually brag about it?

Do you beat your wife if she deviates from your preffered definitions of what's right/ wrong?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  I love Jesus, He is my Lord...I believe in Elohim, Family, America....I'm not a liberal-progressive-Marxist-Atheist like you @Factfinder...you are repulsive, an enemy of all that is good, holy, sustainable...you are but malignant cell among a metastasizing progressive malignancy in America.   

MichaelElpers

@Joeseph

Maybe you should read my post again where it says: "Is it the most efficient probably no"

The question was can spanking your children teach right from wrong clearly punishnent/consequences do that. Again some are more efficient than others 

Joeseph

@MichaelElpers

Why would I need to read it again,it's patently clear what you said.

jack

MichaelElpers said:

Maybe you should read my post again where it says: "Is it the most efficient probably no"

The question was can spanking your children teach right from wrong clearly punishnent/consequences do that.

Hello again M:

Lemme ask you this..  Is hitting a child the best way to teach him not to hit?   

Lemme also ask you this..  If you had a pit bull in your back yard, that you enjoyed poking through the fence with a sharp stick, would you let him in your house?

Du*de!

excon

MichaelElpers

@Joeseph

Why do you need to read again. Because you stated:
"What you're basically saying and demonstrating to the child is the fact that you're incapable of reasoning with him/ her so violence is your best solution."

Well no thats not what i said and its not implied.  I never said this is the way i discipline children and I never said it is the standard we should use.
That leads me to the conclusion, you didnt read, you cant read, or your a giant strawman.  Your choice.

MichaelElpers

@jack

Lemme ask you this.. Is hitting a child the best way to teach him not to hit?   

Easy response: No.  However it would teach hitting is wrong better than absolutely nothing. Obviously hitting a child too hard is abuse, but thats a different factor than could it teach hitting is wrong.

Lemme also ask you this.. If you had a pit bull in your back yard, that you enjoyed poking through the fence with a sharp stick, would you let him in your house?

Not sure where your going with this.  Probably not but i would make the assessment based on the temperment of that pitbull.

jack

MichaelElpers said:

@jack

Lemme also ask you this.. If you had a pit bull in your back yard, that you enjoyed poking through the fence with a sharp stick, would you let him in your house?

Not sure where your going with this.  Probably not but i would make the assessment based on the temperment of that pitbull.

Hello again, M:

It's a metaphor,  Prisoners are mistreated in our prisons.  They're the pit bull.  Letting him in the house is also a metaphor..  When released, having been poked with a sharp stick by the system, MOST violent offenders are dumped in your town, without a job, or a place to live and nary a dime in his pocket..

You wouldn't want that guy to move in next door, would you?

excon

xlJ_dolphin_473

@MichaelElpers
There are plenty of reasons why longer sentences and tougher law enforcement does not equal stronger deterrence.

First of all, criminals don’t act in purely rational ways: They might be going through a particularly low period in their life, or might have developed a drug addiction. This means rational factors of deterrence won't weigh too heavily in a criminal's mind.

Second, criminals are often forced to commit crime by economic or social pressure. A larger sentence is therefore an ineffective deterrent, as it does nothing to solve the underlying motivation for their activity.

Third, criminals’ idea of deterrence is often based on the likelihood of being caught, not the severity of the punishment. Many criminals believe they can simply avoid being punished, and see prison as a lesson to be more careful and not get caught next time.

And finally, people are inherently bad at understanding the differences between long periods of time. If a prisoner would get a five year sentence in a "soft on crime" environment but ten years in a "tough on crime" environment, people can't meaningfully wrap their head around the difference. Therefore, increasingly long prison sentences yield marginal benefits for deterrence.

MichaelElpers

@xlJ_dolphin_473

Its important to note I was responding to this.

"Or, do the cops have NO effect on crime whatsoever, no matter how the laws are enforced?  

Do you think incarceration has any effect on crime?"

My answer there is of course incarceration has more impact than nothing. Again simple supply and demand.  I have never stated my opinion on the most efficient manners because ultimately id know i need to do a lot more research to have an informed opinion of maximal effect

To your point about likliness of being caught.  The OP says when spending on cops go up crime does not go down.
Again seems ludicrous as more cops equals more eyes equals higher liklihood of being caught.
Again i have no opinion on efficiency.  Simply like you stated, higher chance of being caught equals lower amount people willing to commit crime. 

Factfinder

@xlJ_dolphin_473

There are plenty of reasons why longer sentences and tougher law enforcement does not equal stronger deterrence.

And there are plenty of reasons why longer sentences and tougher law enforcement does equal a stronger deterrent. Why not go with that for the benefit of society?

First of all, criminals don’t act in purely rational ways: They might be going through a particularly low period in their life, or might have developed a drug addiction. This means rational factors of deterrence won't weigh too heavily in a criminal's mind.

Doesn't mean that they won't weigh at all. The one who commits the crime gets all the attention but the one who doesn't commit a crime we really never know why not, do we? We never know the effects of deterrents but it's not logical to think removing them will reduce crime.

Third, criminals’ idea of deterrence is often based on the likelihood of being caught, not the severity of the punishment. Many criminals believe they can simply avoid being punished, and see prison as a lesson to be more careful and not get caught next time.

It isn't about the criminal state of mind, it's about their actions. You're not seriously purposing no one who is released from prison isn't reformed and doesn't commit crimes so they don't go back, are you?

And finally, people are inherently bad at understanding the differences between long periods of time. If a prisoner would get a five year sentence in a "soft on crime" environment but ten years in a "tough on crime" environment, people can't meaningfully wrap their head around the difference. Therefore, increasingly long prison sentences yield marginal benefits for deterrence.

What evidence do you have that people don't understand the difference between ten years in prison and five? Sorry bud but you need to supply some evidence for these assumptions.