Is the Christian God EVIL?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@AmantePrime ; Elohim - Jesus Christ is perfect in holiness, righteousness, love, compassion and those who perceive Him as "evil" are spiritually ignorant of causation for Creation and Elohim's eschatological imperatives concerning Time and Eternity.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/qz/yu2yub3hu4sf.jpg

MayCaesar

Christian god is a human creation, and it is only as evil as the humans who wrote stories about him. Christianity was born a little under 2 millennia ago, when the standards in human societies across the board were very different, and concepts like "human rights", "casus belli" or "rules of engagement" did not really exist. At that time wars were brutal and merciless, punishments harsh and painful, and human spirit tough and rugged. Christian god merely reflects the state of the society at that time.

As you can see from the first response to your opening statement, not all of the society has moved on from that time.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

Christian god is a human creation, and it is only as evil as the humans who wrote stories about him. Christianity was born a little under 2 millennia ago, when the standards in human societies across the board were very different, and concepts like "human rights", "casus belli" or "rules of engagement" did not really exist. At that time wars were brutal and merciless, punishments harsh and painful, and human spirit tough and rugged. Christian god merely reflects the state of the society at that time.

As you can see from the first response to your opening statement, not all of the society has moved on from that time.

@MayCaesar ; It is the spiritually ignorant atheist who does not know Elohim and His purposes under girding creation that vomits the stupidity of human free will as denoting an evil Creator; this, as the atheist is a foolish servant of Satan.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/ee/juolo83neds2.jpg

Factfinder

@AmantePrime

Well you're correct of course. It's an evil god that persuades people to do evil things in its name with the promise of a get out of jail card for free if one blindly obeys. It's just like any other evil human ideology or religion, concocted to manipulate and control the masses toward a certain direction with brutally harsh punishments that don't fit the crime of those who don't blindly accept their fallacies over reality.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; It is the demonic atheist that is the root of evil in our midst...not our Creator.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/nt/g28vll8nko95.jpg

AmantePrime

Argument Topic: Posing a question.

@RickeyHoltsclaw
Good morning Rickey. I always find it somewhat interesting that Christians like you respond exactly the same as any other fundamentalist including Hindus, Muslims, etc., with anger, rancor, and puerile arguments. I am a former seminarian and I respect and admire the character and philosophies of Yeshua Ben Yosef. I would welcome an honest and respectful discussion from anyone. Perhaps you can muster some for yourself and get back to me. Until such a time exists, have a nice day.

PS, I did not say that I defined God as Evil, the Bible does, however. Cheers

RickeyHoltsclaw

AmantePrime said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw
Good morning Rickey. I always find it somewhat interesting that Christians like you respond exactly the same as any other fundamentalist including Hindus, Muslims, etc., with anger, rancor, and puerile arguments. I am a former seminarian and I respect and admire the character and philosophies of Yeshua Ben Yosef. I would welcome an honest and respectful discussion from anyone. Perhaps you can muster some for yourself and get back to me. Until such a time exists, have a nice day.

PS, I did not say that I defined God as Evil, the Bible does, however. Cheers

@AmantePrime ; Truly....I find it interesting that a spiritually ignorant and stu-pid atheist suggests they know anything about the spiritual...they don't...they're dead spiritually. The Scriptures don't define or describe Elohim as Evil...you are evil...let's debate that....

RickeyHoltsclaw

@AmantePrime ; Waiting....

AmantePrime

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You've made my point, with your own words. A full cup cannot be filled, you are full. I'm certain that you think me as evil. I'm not misleading others. Have a nice day, friend. A learned reading of my prose would certainly understand that I am not an atheist. You are commanded to defend your faith. Maybe you should study a bit more and put on the armor of God.

RickeyHoltsclaw

AmantePrime said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You've made my point, with your own words. A full cup cannot be filled, you are full. I'm certain that you think me as evil. I'm not misleading others. Have a nice day, friend. A learned reading of my prose would certainly understand that I am not an atheist. You are commanded to defend your faith. Maybe you should study a bit more and put on the armor of God.

@AmantePrime ; Maybe you should defend your suggestive premise as opposed to cowering when confronted....????????????????????

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Why are you like this, grandpa? You are 66, you are supposed to smile at children and give encouraging talk to the youngsters. Instead you turned into a bitter prick barking at everyone...

Factfinder

AmantePrime said:

It seems to me that the Christian definition and description of God or "The Father" is Evil. As written in scripture, This God has ordered the slaughter of tens of thousands of men, woman, and children. Additionally, he demands that humans worship and praise him or suffer everlasting pain, anguish and torture. This God cannot be and is NOT good.

No it can not be good. Christian apologetics will always claim it is we the creation that created evil by our choices. But that lie (as if any of this were real) is exposed in their own book, in their own narrative of the fall of man. In genesis 2:9 god puts evil in the garden, before man made 'moral' choices. Creating man severely limited on knowledge and full understanding of the stakes. Then in genesis 2:17 he points evil out intentionally in the garden and says do not eat of it, purposely tempting man. Then sends a deceiver in to trick and deceive. Evil is the god of the babble alright. It created humans with a proclivity to 'sin' by its definition and didn't provide them with instincts not to 'sin' by its definition. Truly an evil with no mercy.

AmantePrime

@RickeyHoltsclaw
Dear Rickey, I would love to discuss this at length, but so far you have not presented anything insightful and anyone can see that you love attempting to provoke a negative reaction by your name calling. Children with no education act in this manner. Take a few minutes to grow up, grow some sense and at least attempt to present yourself as an intelligent being. You have forgotten or ignored the simplest teachings of Jesus in whom you claim to follow.

AmantePrime

@Factfinder
Hey man, thank you for your responses. I had a feeling that a Pandora's Box would be opened. Quite frankly, I am looking for educated and learned replies to my query. I used to believe that humans older than myself were to be trusted given the benefit of the doubt, but that preposition is not only false, but can dangerous as well. We have the evidence of a history of abuse from leaders, especially so called religious ones. Peace

RickeyHoltsclaw

AmantePrime said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw
Dear Rickey, I would love to discuss this at length, but so far you have not presented anything insightful and anyone can see that you love attempting to provoke a negative reaction by your name calling. Children with no education act in this manner. Take a few minutes to grow up, grow some sense and at least attempt to present yourself as an intelligent being. You have forgotten or ignored the simplest teachings of Jesus in whom you claim to follow.

@AmentePrime ; @Factfinder ; Still waiting for a rebuttal to my response concerning your absurd OP...try again...and what teachings of my Lord have I ignored...why not rebut?

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Why are you like this, grandpa? You are 66, you are supposed to smile at children and give encouraging talk to the youngsters. Instead you turned into a bitter prick barking at everyone...

@MayCaesar ; I despise the atheist...it's enjoyable to converse with those who defy their future in Hell.

AmantePrime

@RickeyHoltsclaw
I see your response in typical narcissistic fashion. This may be difficult for you to believe, seeing your lackluster understanding of the English language, scripture, and coupled with an astonishing lack of discernment, I actually have more important things to do, other than pining away for your remedial and illiterate response to a simple supposition. Perhaps reading and writing are not your strong suite. I can imagine that you are much better at bigotry and profanity. Actually, I do not need to imagine, it is as clear as your narcissistic tendencies. Stay safe.

Factfinder

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; I despise the atheist...it's enjoyable to converse with those who defy their future in Hell.

That is sad to hear. I, for one, do not despise you. I do find your life to be miserable (and your bitter and hateful comments are a strong indication of that), but only from the perspective of "If I were Rickey, I would be in hell". It is an expression of compassion, not repulsion.

I think it is Christianity that promotes compassion, is it not? I do not remember if that was Gandhi who said that most Christians are very much unlike their Christ, but the guy was totally on point.

AmantePrime

Sad indeed. So called "Christians" are commanded to "love thy neighbor" but so few of them do. They should have a longsuffering attitude towards others, especially those who do not believe, act, or live as they do, but it only takes a nanosecond for them to respond with anger, malice, enmity, hated and spite. They are not Christlike, not at all. They also do not understand the English language. The often stated nonsense that atheists or non believers hold Satan as their god proves my point. Non believers have no god at all. The modern Christians' behavior is far more akin to extreme Jihadists than any lessons of Christ, with the exception of Luke 19:27 of course. They are also commanded to be salt and preserve the world through love and compassion. Good luck finding that. They may have concern for themselves and like minded individuals but even their Lord stated that the Devil loves his own. I thought Christians were supposed to be better and save the planet. If their Lord were to return, he would not be pleased with their lack of love.

just_sayin

AmantePrime said:

It seems to me that the Christian definition and description of God or "The Father" is Evil. As written in scripture, This God has ordered the slaughter of tens of thousands of men, woman, and children. Additionally, he demands that humans worship and praise him or suffer everlasting pain, anguish and torture. This God cannot be and is NOT good.

A few brief observations and comments:

1) One - if there is no God there is no objective measure of what morally 'ought' to be. You can have a preference - but to say that something created by randomness 'ought' to have a certain set of morals is not logical. So, your question has to borrow someone's moral system, just to ask the question, because in an atheistic moral system who can say that what one person does is good or evil as opposed to another's. Both are made by randomness, who knows if their minds are not wired that way, and no moral 'oughtness' can be mandated upon natural processes.

2) God is the creator of everything. As such, he can do whatever he wants to his creation. He is not a human and not under the same rules of morality that humans are. When he judged people with the flood, he did not sin. He had the sovereign right to take any life He wanted.

3) The expressions in the Old Testament where God tells Israel to wipe out the Anakites, the Amalekites, and kill all the women and children are most likely, just like other such statements in middle-eastern antiquity which we have record of from the Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, etc. - hyperbole and idiomatic expressions. It would be like a sports team saying they annihilated their opponent. It isn't meant to be taken literally. You can see this fairly clearly in the text. For example Joshua says that he did all that Moses commanded him to do in destroying all the Anakites, yet in the next paragraph he talks about them still existing. In 1 Samuel, Saul boasts of killing all the Amalekites, including children, but 1 Samuel 29 and 31 - talks about how 400 of them attacked David's warriors. There are other examples throughout the Old Testament, for example God commanded all of Israel to be utterly destroyed in the prophets, and it says this was fulfilled by Israel's enemies. Yet, some Israelites remained. So understanding ancient idioms and expressions is important.

4) But if God had commanded them to kill women and children, He would not have been unjust to do so. God has the authority to give life or to take it. Further, the belief of Christians is that physical life is not the end. The souls of the individuals live on. And the belief of Christians is that God is a just God, and that the souls of children go to heaven because they have not reached the age of accountability. While it is unjust for you and me to kill anyone without clear direction from God, which in the 2 cases I mentioned above, God told the Israelites 400 years before the events, this would happen, it is not unjust of God to give or take life.

5) No one who goes to hell will do so because they didn't praise God. They will do so because of their sins. In other words, they will be punished for their wrong doing. God will judge each person according to their response to what they knew about him and what to do. Further God has provided a means of forgiveness through the death and resurrection of Jesus. If someone finds themselves in hell, it will be because they wanted God out of their life, and He honored that request.

21CenturyIconoclast

@just_sayin

Just_sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb,

YOUR IDIOTIC QUOTE WHERE YOU TRY AND SAVE YOUR GOD JESUS IN BEING A BLOODY AND BRUTAL MURDERER!: "The expressions in the Old Testament where God tells Israel to wipe out the Anakites, the Amalekites, and kill all the women and children are most likely, just like other such statements in middle-eastern antiquity which we have record of from the Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, etc. - hyperbole and idiomatic expressions. It would be like a sports team saying they annihilated their opponent."
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177430/#Comment_177430

You comically say that the KILLING NATURE of your God Jesus in the Old Testament was "most likely" just hyperbole and idiomatic???! ROFLOL!!!!

So, to your Satanic thinking, the following biblical narrative in 1 Samuel 15:1-11 regarding your Jesus commanding the murdering OF INNOCENT CHILDREN AND INFANTS of the Amalekites WAS A LIE and is BLASPHEME on your part?!

"Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. THIS IS WHAT THE LORD ALMIGHTY SAYS: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroyall that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, CHILDREN AND INFANTS, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites. Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed. (1 Samuel 15:1-11)

Just_sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb, since Jesus inspired the Bible as written verses above (2 Peter 1:20-21), and every word of the Bible is flawless (Proverbs 30:5), then tell the membership in where you get the authority to say Jesus' words in the verse above ARE LIES like you proffered in your quote above?

BEGIN:

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MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

2) God is the creator of everything. As such, he can do whatever he wants to his creation. He is not a human and not under the same rules of morality that humans are. When he judged people with the flood, he did not sin. He had the sovereign right to take any life He wanted.

How does this align with your claim that god is also the source of objective morals? If god can "do whatever he wants to his creation", then the morals are whatever he wants them to be, therefore they are inherently subjective.

Do you want my honest opinion, @just_sayin? You should stop saying anything on the subject. Every time you say something, you add yet another inconsistency to your already indefensibly buggy construct.

just_sayin

Does God have the right to do anything he wants with his creation? Yes, he created his creation. You would not say it is immoral for an artist to destroy their artwork. And the truth is artist is far closer to his artwork, than God is to us. The fact God has established a means to be considered his children is an indication of his grace, not his injustice. It is not immoral for him to decide who lives and who dies. Some contend that God is evil if he either directly kills someone or indirectly allows it to happen, yet this a failure of the individual to understand certain issues:
1) God is not human and is not under the same rules as you and me, he is the creator
2) Death is not the end of the soul's existence - We think of death as finality, but it is just a transition.
3) The idea that people will not endure some suffering is not taught in the Bible, in fact suffering is predicted for the believer and Jesus' own suffering is given as an example that it will happen to us also
4) Each person will be judged for their own actions - so God is just and not unjust in this
5) The Bible repeatedly teaches that no one is promised that they will live one more day

Factfinder

So much for freewill.

MayCaesar

@just_sayin

I do not talk about god's rights. I talk about the objectivity of the morals deriving from a creature that, as you said, can "do whatever he wants to his creation". I think that for any conversation to be productive, you have to reply to what I actually say.

I am curious though if you also think that parents have the right to do whatever they want with their children since they created them. Is it okay for a parent to murder their child? I think someone here argued against abortion on similar grounds... Another inconsistency yet?

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

@just_sayin

I do not talk about god's rights. I talk about the objectivity of the morals deriving from a creature that, as you said, can "do whatever he wants to his creation". I think that for any conversation to be productive, you have to reply to what I actually say.

I am curious though if you also think that parents have the right to do whatever they want with their children since they created them. Is it okay for a parent to murder their child? I think someone here argued against abortion on similar grounds... Another inconsistency yet?

I think you are conflating the obligations the created have to one another and the obligations that the creator has to his creation. To expedite this, Can you tell me why you think it is immoral for God to either directly kill someone or allow them to die?

MayCaesar

@just_sayin

I do not "think it is immoral for God to either directly kill someone or allow them to die", so I do not have to answer this question. Once again, I am talking about the idea that morals coming from someone who can "do whatever he wants to his creation" are objective. I would appreciate it if you replied to what I actually said.

And I would like you to reply to my question about parents and their rights. Please stop ignoring my questions. I do not ignore yours, do I?

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

@just_sayin

I do not "think it is immoral for God to either directly kill someone or allow them to die", so I do not have to answer this question. Once again, I am talking about the idea that morals coming from someone who can "do whatever he wants to his creation" are objective. I would appreciate it if you replied to what I actually said.

And I would like you to reply to my question about parents and their rights. Please stop ignoring my questions. I do not ignore yours, do I?

You didn't answer my question. I did in fact answer your question. I mentioned that God is not the creation, but the Creator, and the things that apply are different. While a parent is the progenitor, they are not your creator. You and I are under moral restrictions about how we treat others because we are God's creation, not our own. So, I did answer your question.

God is both just and good. God has been good to mankind by providing us with the opportunity to spend eternity with Him if we so choose. In the Bible he calls those who accept this offer his children, as if we become part of his family. God also respects the rights of those who don't want to spend eternity with Him. God balances both good and just at the same time.

21CenturyIconoclast

@MayCaesar

"Just_sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb" will always run away from any member that easily makes him the outright bible fool that he truly is! He has no choice in this matter, whereas he has to run away from all of my posts to him relative to his disgusting Christianity and his judeo-Christian bible like he is currently doing in not addressing this post of mine: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177439/#Comment_177439

Always remember, when the kitchen of bible FACTS gets to hot, "Just_sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb" will run away from any disturbing bible verse that he cannot address, whereas, he is going directly against his serial killer Jesus in not even "trying" to defend his sickening Christian faith as shown in the verse below:

"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)

"Just_sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb" is a wimpy candy-assed pseudo-christian at best, where the Atheist outright "owns his Bible ineptness" in front of the membership! LOL!

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE ....."JUST_SAYIN_I'AM_BIBLE_DUMB"..... THAT HAS TO RUN AWAY FROM JESUS' DIRECT WORDS WITHIN THE BIBLE, WILL BE .....?

.

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

You didn't answer my question. I did in fact answer your question. I mentioned that God is not the creation, but the Creator, and the things that apply are different. While a parent is the progenitor, they are not your creator. You and I are under moral restrictions about how we treat others because we are God's creation, not our own. So, I did answer your question.

God is both just and good. God has been good to mankind by providing us with the opportunity to spend eternity with Him if we so choose. In the Bible he calls those who accept this offer his children, as if we become part of his family. God also respects the rights of those who don't want to spend eternity with Him. God balances both good and just at the same time.

I answered your question perfectly well. Your question was why I think something, and my answer was that I do not think that.

My question, for the Nth time, is this: how can morals derived from someone who can "do whatever he wants to his creation" are objective? "Because it is his creation" is not an answer, it is a reiteration of the question. Suppose god gets drunk tomorrow and decides, "Men should rape women indiscriminately". Then he wakes up sober a day later and says, "Oh, actually I was wrong". What is objective about all of that?

I am not going to relent, sayin. When I ask a question, I expect a proper answer. If you do not answer, then you can write entire essays - I will keep pressing you for the answer. I have no tolerance for filler texts.

Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

just_sayin said:

You didn't answer my question. I did in fact answer your question. I mentioned that God is not the creation, but the Creator, and the things that apply are different. While a parent is the progenitor, they are not your creator. You and I are under moral restrictions about how we treat others because we are God's creation, not our own. So, I did answer your question.

God is both just and good. God has been good to mankind by providing us with the opportunity to spend eternity with Him if we so choose. In the Bible he calls those who accept this offer his children, as if we become part of his family. God also respects the rights of those who don't want to spend eternity with Him. God balances both good and just at the same time.

I answered your question perfectly well. Your question was why I think something, and my answer was that I do not think that.

My question, for the Nth time, is this: how can morals derived from someone who can "do whatever he wants to his creation" are objective? "Because it is his creation" is not an answer, it is a reiteration of the question. Suppose god gets drunk tomorrow and decides, "Men should rape women indiscriminately". Then he wakes up sober a day later and says, "Oh, actually I was wrong". What is objective about all of that?

I am not going to relent, sayin. When I ask a question, I expect a proper answer. If you do not answer, then you can write entire essays - I will keep pressing you for the answer. I have no tolerance for filler texts.

Well you would have to conform to his beliefs in order to know the answers to your questions. You see, under the guise of 'always was, always will be, and always is', god can change up whenever Just_sayin says. If the god of the bible says he formed the universe and all it contains in 6 days then he did though he tricked us into thinking it took billions of years. You see May, he doesn't even understand our rudimentary reasons for not believing, so answering hard questions honestly is just simply what people of faith do not do.

just_sayin

Argument Topic: If there is no God, there are no objective morals

The argument is simply put as:

1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.

2. Objective moral values do exist.

3. Therefore, God exists.

I’ve argued that objective moral values are rooted in God's nature, not in His will, and that that nature expresses itself toward us in the form of divine commandments, which constitute our moral duties. Some seem to think they are more moral than God - but they can't explain how God the creator is evil for doing what He has done. On what basis then does the atheist accuse God of evil? it is certainly not one that logically arises from their belief system. Scientism believes that all things are the result of random process of nature. Nature does not have a will and therefore is neither good nor evil. Since the atheist must borrow their morals from another belief system and they seem to be insisting that their moral view is true, then they are acknowledging that God is real, for he is the only possible source of an objective moral value.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

The argument is simply put as:
1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
2. Objective moral values do exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.
I’ve argued that objective moral values are rooted in God's nature, not in His will, and that that nature expresses itself toward us in the form of divine commandments, which constitute our moral duties. Some seem to think they are more moral than God - but they can't explain how God the creator is evil for doing what He has done. On what basis then does the atheist accuse God of evil? it is certainly not one that logically arises from their belief system. Scientism believes that all things are the result of random process of nature. Nature does not have a will and therefore is neither good nor evil. Since the atheist must borrow their morals from another belief system and they seem to be insisting that their moral view is true, then they are acknowledging that God is real, for he is the only possible source of an objective moral value.

Does God have the right to do anything he wants with his creation? Yes, he created his creation. You would not say it is immoral for an artist to destroy their artwork. And the truth is artist is far closer to his artwork, than God is to us.

That's pretty twisted. An artist for one, doesn't create sentient beings programmed for logic and not fantasy. Then tortures them for it.

So if you're a rancher it's ok to slaughter every animal and family member on your ranch cause it's yours? Wow, wonder what kind of magical fairy dust you've used to deluded yourself into thinking that's ok?

AmantePrime

Argument Topic: The MORAL majority, as if.

@just_sayin, and anyone else

I think that your views on morality are suspect at best.

POSTED ON JANUARY 16, 2024 | CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE

Over the last few decades, thousands of clergy sexual abuse cases have been reported in various religious communities around the world. Religious institutions have only recently begun to take accountability and pledge transparency when it comes to clergy sexual abuse. Unfortunately, this crime continues to plague millions of churches worldwide as religious institutions fail to take the proper steps to prevent and respond to clergy sexual abuse.

1 out of 3 girls in the US are sexually abused. That's 12.2 MILLION girls.
1 out of 5 boys in the US are sexually abused. That's 7.3 MILLION boys.
That’s 19.5 MILLION Children under the age of 18 in the US being sexually abused. Surely the REAL numbers are much higher.

15% of that abuse is coming from clergy members, pastors and church leaders. That’s about 3 MILLION abusers from the “church”. We’ve had at least 3,000 years of Judaism and Christianity in the human lexicon. So much for being the SALT of the earth. More like a scourge, plague, even a curse upon humanity.

Therefore, according to your philosophy and beliefs, you and your god(s) are totally fine with MILLIONS upon millions of children being sexually abused. You’re obviously NOT a parent. If humanity’s only hope is the morality of Christians, we are TOAST and deserve a culling.

just_sayin

@AmantePrime
Huh? I do not support child sexual assault no matter who it is from, clergy or not. I have pointed out that the current percent of clergy who have engaged in child sexual misconduct is said to be about 2 percent, whereas the Department of Education's lead investigator into sexual assault of minors in public schools puts the percentage at between 5-8 percent of public school educators have engaged in child sexual assault. The DOT last year had almost 15,000 instances of educator sexual misconduct. As the lead researcher for the DOT has said:

“the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,”- Carol. Shakeshaft

21CenturyIconoclast

@just_sayin

Just_Sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb,

YOUR PATHETIC QUOTE THAT YOU DON'T REALIZE IN HOW RELIGIOUSLY STUP*D YOU ARE!: " I have pointed out that the current percent of clergy who have engaged in child sexual misconduct is said to be about 2 percent, whereas the Department of Education's lead investigator into sexual assault of minors in public schools puts the percentage at between 5-8 percent of public school educators have engaged in child sexual assault."

You say the clergy in sexual abuse of children is 2 percent, where this 2 percent were hypocritical pseudo-christians to their faith in molesting children, where that is 2 percent too many, get it bible fool? Huh?

JESUS SAID: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea."

Just_Sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb, you can no more defend your mythical and primitive Bronze and Iron Age Christianity than your equal Bible fool "RickeyHoltsclaw!"

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21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

++++++++++++++++++ MEMBERSHIP ALLERT REGARDING RICKEYHOLTSCLAW ++++++++++++++++

The number one pseudo-christian bible stu-pid fool RickeyHoltsclaw used to post daily upon this Religion Forum, but as shown he hasn't posted for over a week now! Because of his outright bible ineptness, and mythically and facetiously, do you think that Jesus as god has had enough of Rickey's bible stu-pidity and has prevented him from frequenting this forum now in giving Christianity a bad name?

As we have all known, RickeyHoltsclaw was a blatant false prophet to the word of his serial killer Jesus as god, where he couldn't address biblical passages that contradicted his, but to only RUN AWAY from them and hide!

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15)

I do hope that Rickey returns, and that is because I have so much more to prove in how ungodly of a pseudo-christian he truly is!!!

.

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

The argument is simply put as:
1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
2. Objective moral values do exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.
I’ve argued that objective moral values are rooted in God's nature, not in His will, and that that nature expresses itself toward us in the form of divine commandments, which constitute our moral duties. Some seem to think they are more moral than God - but they can't explain how God the creator is evil for doing what He has done. On what basis then does the atheist accuse God of evil? it is certainly not one that logically arises from their belief system. Scientism believes that all things are the result of random process of nature. Nature does not have a will and therefore is neither good nor evil. Since the atheist must borrow their morals from another belief system and they seem to be insisting that their moral view is true, then they are acknowledging that God is real, for he is the only possible source of an objective moral value.

The idea that me not figuring our all morals on my own, but borrowing some of the ideas behind them from others, implies that I am acknowledging that god is real is quite... peculiar. Would it be also fair to say that you using English that you borrowed from other English speakers, rather than inventing and using your own language, acknowledges that Shakespeare was a god?

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

just_sayin said:

The argument is simply put as:
1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
2. Objective moral values do exist.
3. Therefore, God exists.
I’ve argued that objective moral values are rooted in God's nature, not in His will, and that that nature expresses itself toward us in the form of divine commandments, which constitute our moral duties. Some seem to think they are more moral than God - but they can't explain how God the creator is evil for doing what He has done. On what basis then does the atheist accuse God of evil? it is certainly not one that logically arises from their belief system. Scientism believes that all things are the result of random process of nature. Nature does not have a will and therefore is neither good nor evil. Since the atheist must borrow their morals from another belief system and they seem to be insisting that their moral view is true, then they are acknowledging that God is real, for he is the only possible source of an objective moral value.

The idea that me not figuring our all morals on my own, but borrowing some of the ideas behind them from others, implies that I am acknowledging that god is real is quite... peculiar. Would it be also fair to say that you using English that you borrowed from other English speakers, rather than inventing and using your own language, acknowledges that Shakespeare was a god?

May, I'm sure you have some morals. However, as an atheist you do not have a moral system derived from an objective moral source. A world view that believes that all is the result of randomness can not claim 'oughtness'.

MayCaesar

@just_sayin

I think that "logic" is as objective a moral source as it gets. Am I wrong?

And I do not think that "all is the result of randomness".

21CenturyIconoclast · Screen Shot 2022-12-12 at 4.29.39 PM.png 419.1K

@just_sayin

Just_Sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb,

YOUR QUOTE WHERE YOU PROPOSE THAT ATHEISTS DON'T HAVE MORALS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A GODLY MORAL SYSTEM!: "May, I'm sure you have some morals. However, as an atheist you do not have a moral system derived from an objective moral source."
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177683/#Comment_177683

The few following inspired words of many from your serial killer Jesus as god, are the following MORALS that you are to follow in his name!

JESUS' MORAL WORDS TO FOLLOW:

1. Pseudo-Christian biblical morals are that they are to Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)

2. Pseudo-Christian biblical morals are that they are to Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)

3. Pseudo-Christian biblical morals are that they are to Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)

4. Pseudo-Christian biblical morals are that they are to Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)

5. Pseudo-Christian biblical morals are that they are to Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

Just_Sayin_I'am_Bible_Dumb, when are you going to start following your gods morals as instructed by him shown above?

“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5)

HERE IS AN IMAGE OF "JUST_SAYIN_I'AM_BIBLE_DUMB" RUNNING AWAY FROM THIS POST BECAUSE HE CANNOT DEFEND IT AND REMAIN INTELLIGENT LOOKING IN THE AFTERMATH!

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE "JUST_SAYIN_I'AM_BIBLE_DUMB" THAT RUNS AWAY FROM HIS JESUS AS GOD'S TRUE WORDS, WILL BE ....?

.

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