Is Christianity a copy cat religion?

RickeyHoltsclaw

Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with our Creator by grace through faith.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with our Creator by grace through faith.

No it's a religion...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christianity

And it's well known about the delusional faith claim of a 'personal' relationship. If that were true then Christianity wouldn't have so many denominations. Either your god personally told lies to hundreds of people of what his church should be, or it's delusional people claiming to talk to god. Either way they can't be all right so we know it's a delusional claim or your elf god isn't truthful, which is it?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; In your spiritually ignorant secular world of atheism and secular humanism, Christianity falls under the nondescript identifier of "religion" but theologically, religion is a system of self-righteousness where one believes they possess the ability to earn favor with a particular deity via good works or behavior or race or ethnicity or tribal affiliation.

Christianity does not rely upon works or behavior or traditions but upon grace (unmerited favor unattainable through human effort) through faith-belief in Jesus our Messiah who died for us and paid for us our sin-debt at Golgotha...Elohim did the work, the Christian believes this and receives it by faith.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

YOUR ARE THE MOST DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT ANY ATHEIST HAS EVER SEEN WITH THIS QUOTE!!!: "religion is a system of self-righteousness where one believes they possess the ability to earn favor with a particular deity via good works"
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/179852/#Comment_179852

In your contradicting quote above, you say that a pseudo-christian like YOU can gain favor with your serial killer Jesus god VIA GOOD WORKS?! Whereas in this quote of yours you said: "All of humanity, from Adam to this very day, were and are saved by “faith,” alone (Hebrews 11)"
how-were-people-in-the-old-testament-before-jesus-saved-from-the-second-death-in-hell

RICKEY, therefore, which is it, "Faith Alone" or "Via Good Works?" You are shown to be once again the most BIBLE STU-PID pseudo-christians upon this Religion Forum, where you DO NOT BELONG in the first place in giving Christianity a bad name!

THE MEMBERSHIP LAUGHS AT YOUR EXPENSE IN YOU BEING AN INEPT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN!

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; You're the spiritually ignorant one...no one is saved by works but by faith, alone.

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Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; In your spiritually ignorant secular world of atheism and secular humanism, Christianity falls under the nondescript identifier of "religion" but theologically, religion is a system of self-righteousness where one believes they possess the ability to earn favor with a particular deity via good works or behavior or race or ethnicity or tribal affiliation.

Christianity does not rely upon works or behavior or traditions but upon grace (unmerited favor unattainable through human effort) through faith-belief in Jesus our Messiah who died for us and paid for us our sin-debt at Golgotha...Elohim did the work, the Christian believes this and receives it by faith.

Where you error is with your biblical ignorance. And you don't answer why the holy spirit told so many people different doctrines for its church.

Now your RELIGION requires works or your faith is not valid. You're only half right and the bible calls people who believe as you "foolish".

James 2:19-26...

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

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RICKEYHOLTSCLAW, THE NUMBER ONE BIBLE FOOL OF THIS RELIGION FORUM, BAR NONE!

YOUR BIBLE STUPIDITY QUOTE THAT HAS NO BOUNDS!!!!!: "You're the spiritually ignorant one...no one is saved by works but by faith, alone."

WRONG BIBLE FOOL! One is not saved by “Faith alone” as you stupidly proffer, where there needs to be “works” along with "faith" as shown below in only a few of the many godly verses proving this biblical FACT!

A. NONE OTHER THAN JESUS SAID: “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2: 14-17)

^^^^^^ RICKEY, DO YOU WANT TO CALL JESUS A ABOVE WHEN HE SAID "WORKS" ARE NEEDED ALONG WITH "FAITH?" ^^^^^^

B. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS SAID: “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey fury." (Romans 2:6-8)

C, THE APOSTLE MATTHEW SAID: “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. (Matthew 16.27)

D. JESUS SPECIFICALLY SAID: “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:12)

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RICKEY, YOU NEVER ANSWERED THIS QUESTION WHEN I POSED IT TO YOU BEFORE, AGAIN, DOES YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN KNOW IN HOW UTTERLY BIBLE YOU TRULY ARE AS SHOWN IN THIS ONE INSTANCE ABOVE, AND OF MANY BEFORE? YES?

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast

James 2:26: “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.” What is James teaching in context?

James prefaces v. 26 with this: “21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

In Genesis 15:6 we are told that Abraham “believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” It’s important to note that Abraham initiated a covenant of righteousness with the Father long before Abraham’s works were noted by the Father in Genesis 26:5,

4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”

What is James teaching here?

James teaches that the one who has honored the Father with true faith in the Son, Jesus, as Messiah will naturally and inevitably produce “fruit” that honors the Father, Son and Spirit during daily sanctification; that is, abiding faith, saving faith, produces good works that validate that faith and confirm it as authentic. Jesus said you would know them by their fruit (Matthew 7:15-20).

James is NOT teaching a works salvation or that works, commandment-keeping somehow supplement or is involved in redemption of the soul by faith in Messiah.

Salvation, forgiveness of sin, a pardon from the “second death” in Hell, is ONLY initiated by repentance and abiding, sincere, authentic, faith in Jesus Christ as Messiah believing that Jesus shed His innocent blood for the atonement of your sin; therefore, there is nothing you can do in and of yourself to initiate covenant with the Father but sincerely trust in the blood and death and resurrection of Messiah Jesus as atonement for your sin, not law-keeping, not water baptism, not philanthropy, not being a good person, not Moses, not Torah, not a Church, but simple and abiding faith in Jesus as the One who died for you. The “fruit” produced through you by the indwelling Holy Spirit during life-long sanctification validates your confession of faith as authentic.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Galatians 5 (ESV)

Barnardot

@Factfinder I am afraid that you have got confused between religion and civilization.

The first civilization on earth may be the Samarians but the first religion recorded is the Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime. It preseeds the Sumariam civilization by some 54,000 years so your got to give credit where credit is due.

Factfinder

@Barnardot

The first civilization on earth may be the Samarians but the first religion recorded is the Australian Aboriginal Dreamtime. It preseeds the Sumariam civilization by some 54,000 years so your got to give credit where credit is due.

I see your point but I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. I can't find where that was even said on this thread at all by anyone?

Your point supports my view Christianity is a copy cat religion literally.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

RICKEY, -H-E-L-L-O, IS ANYBODY HOME TODAY? NOT!!!!!

Once again you are blatantly RUNNING AWAY again from a simple biblical doctrine that it takes "works" and "faith" to please your serial killer JESUS AS GOD!

WHAT PART OF THE FACT THAT JESUS, NOT JAMES, SPOKE JAMES 2:14-17 DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND BIBLE FOOL?!!!!

To help your inept "Reading Comprehension" again, I have capitalized in bold letters the blatant fact that Jesus says you need WORKS along with FAITH in the passage in question shown below!

A. JESUS SAID: “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? EVEN SO FAITH, IF IT HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD BEING ALONE” (James 2: 14-17)

CASE CLOSED WITH THE VERSE ABOVE THAT JESUS SAYS YOU NEED FAITH AND WORKS, PERIOD!!!!!!

RICKEY, what happened, you forgot to address these verses as well in my post shown in the link below, SCARED AGAIN? Huh?
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/179857/#Comment_179857
B. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS SAID: “He will render to each one ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey fury." (Romans 2:6-8)

C, THE APOSTLE MATTHEW SAID: “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then HE WILL BE REWARD EACH ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS" (Matthew 16.27)

D. JESUS SPECIFICALLY SAID: “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE” Revelation 22:12)

RICKEY, address the above 3 passages as well, and DO NOT RUN AWAY from them, understood?

BEGIN:

RICKEY, as we see once again, you took your "Bible Pills®️" in "trying" to rewrite the Bible in front of the membership, and when doing so, you slap Jesus in the face for saying that he is wrong in the passages that he inspired saying you have to have "WORKS" along with faith, you dumbfounded pseudo-christian FOOL!

NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT IS AS BIBLE STU-PID AS ....."RICKEYHOLTSCLAW" AND CALLS JESUS A "" IN HIS INSPIRED VERSES SHOWING THAT YOU NEED "WORKS" ALONG WITH "FAITH," WILL COMICALLY BE .....?

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, AND HAVE NOT WORKS?" These words were written by James, a Disciple of Jesus, not Jesus, Himself and James is not suggesting that works save the soul but that works, those fruits pleasing to the Father (Galatians 5:22-23) are a resultant of the soul saved by faith (noun), alone and a work of the Spirit in the life of the redeemed in Jesus (Galatians 5:16-23).

It is true that Jesus will judge the "works" of the Christian; this, at the BEMA Judgment of Messiah but the Christian's works will be judged from the vantage point of salvation, salvation-redemption which is secured by "faith" and guaranteed by the indwelling Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14). The Christian will not stand in the judgment of sinners as their sin has been atoned for by faith in Jesus who did the "work" of redemption for us at Golgotha (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 8:12).

It is also true that Jesus will judge the works of the atheist; this, at the Judgment of the Condemned (Revelation 20:11-15) and no one is justified by works; therefore, the atheist will be adjudicated "guilty" and lose mind, body, soul, in Hell, forever, as their unrepentant sin will NOT be permitted to enter the Kingdom and defile same (Revelation 21:27). This is your judgment.

Judgment of the atheist,

The BEMA Judgment of the redeemed in Jesus,

Salvation is by faith, alone.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, AND HAVE NOT WORKS?" These words were written by James, a Disciple of Jesus, not Jesus, Himself and James is not suggesting that works save the soul but that works, those fruits pleasing to the Father

Nope you can't adlib here. You're claiming the bible, specifically the book of James is in error, which would mean nothing in god's supposed infallible word can legitimately be regarded as infallible. Because it's ALL the word, Jesus the living word according to your elf book. And it's very clear and precise...

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

NOT by faith only. Sorry but your low iq betrays you.

Barnardot

@Factfinder

I can't find where that was even said on this thread at all by anyone?

Well I found it. It took a long time but I found it in the first 14 words of the opening thread where you said:
The most ancient civilization on earth is Sumerian. There are similarities of Christianity and.........

So I red the Topic which said: Is religion a copycat religion.

And I put 1 and 1 together so yes how dum of me.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; No one works them self into covenant with Elohim; Elohim first demonstrated this truism for you in Genesis 3:21, a scenario manifesting immediately subsequent the Adamic fall from grace. Adam and his wife were made aware of sin and shame subsequent their compromise with evil and they therefore sought to hide, conceal, their shame from Elohim via the works of their hands by placing fig-leaves over their nakedness and shame but Elohim rejected Adam's works to cover his own sin and shame and provided Adam and Eve an imputed-gifted robe of righteousness through the shedding of innocent blood, Himself. You cannot attain a righteousness sufficient to garner favor from Elohim due your Adamic sin-nature but Elohim, Himself, paid the price for your sin-debt and offers you redemption by believing, trusting, in what He has done for you at the Cross...but you must "believe" that Jesus is Messiah who died for you to pay a sin-debt owed the Father that you cannot pay yourself (Romans 8:1-9; John 3).

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder No one is justified by works but by faith, alone.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No one is justified by works but by faith, alone.

So the bible is in error when James says 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

How many more errors does it contain ricky? Your religion requires works like any other.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Yes...if you read with the intent of suggesting that it's works that justify one before our Creator, you would be in error as one is only saved, enters into New Covenant with the Father by faith (noun), alone. It is true that that saving faith (noun) will naturally manifest in the production of divine fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) and faith then becomes a (verb) as that divine fruit (works of righteousness) validates and authenticates saving faith (noun) as legitimate and true. Jesus clearly said "You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20) and Jesus reiterated that the production of divine fruit is what identifies an individual as a child of Elohim (John 15:8), but in order for that fruit to be produced through the individual, they must first trust-believe in Jesus as Messiah and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as Guarantor of New Covenant relationship (Ephesians 1:13-14) and only then does the Spirit begin a good work (verb) in the redeemed in Jesus whereby the Father is honored. If you could be saved by what you do or your works, Jesus died in vain.

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Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Yes...if you read with the intent of suggesting that it's works that justify one before our Creator, you would be in error as one is only saved, enters into New Covenant with the Father by faith (noun), alone. It is true that that saving faith (noun) will naturally manifest in the production of divine fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) and faith then becomes a (verb) as that divine fruit (works of righteousness) validates and authenticates saving faith (noun) as legitimate and true. Jesus clearly said "You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20) and Jesus reiterated that the production of divine fruit is what identifies an individual as a child of Elohim (John 15:8), but in order for that fruit to be produced through the individual, they must first trust-believe in Jesus as Messiah and receive the indwelling Holy Spirit as Guarantor of New Covenant relationship (Ephesians 1:13-14) and only then does the Spirit begin a good work (verb) in the redeemed in Jesus whereby the Father is honored. If you could be saved by what you do or your works, Jesus died in vain.

You said faith alone justifies you, I pointed out the bible says the opposite that works justifies you and not just faith only. Now you say that's because true faith will produce works and the fruits of your faith if you really believe. Well then were are back to you religion being just that, a religion. Your religion requires your faith to produce works according to its doctrine like any other. No personal relationship required. You claim you have a personal relationship yet you bear no fruit of such. You spew hatred and bigotry, nothing like what jesus taught.

All religions when believed produce by products of that faith by their parishioners. Christianity is no different.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; It is your faith that initiates "peace" between you and the Father...faith, alone...you are "justified by faith"....that faith (noun) produces good works but your works, apart from faith, are interpreted as a "filthy rag" (bloody menstrual cloth in the literal Hebrew) by the Father; this, unless the Son is your Messiah.

My faith (noun) does not "require" that I produce anything but that faith (noun) that saves the soul also initiates a "new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17) and that new creation in Jesus "naturally" desires to honor the Father and the Spirit through obedience...this is not a mandate but a natural resultant of saving faith (noun).

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Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; It is your faith that initiates "peace" between you and the Father...faith, alone...you are "justified by faith"....that faith (noun) produces good works but your works, apart from faith, are interpreted as as a "filthy rag" (bloody menstrual cloth in the literal Hebrew) by the Father; this, unless the Son is your Messiah.

My faith (noun) does not "require" that I produce anything but that faith (noun) that saves the soul also initiates a "new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17) and that new creation in Jesus "naturally" desires to honor the Father and the Spirit through obedience...this is not a mandate but a natural resultant of saving faith (noun).

You really don't understand your bible. Jesus was sent as the messiah to glorify the father. Do you agree with that? Jesus taught that there is only one way to do that, bring forth fruit. And you do that by continuing in his love, love god and your neighbor. But you say no, only faith in god justifies enough, even when Jesus says it's not enough to believe, just as James said it's not enough... You must produce works as Jesus said in order to glorify the father...

James says 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

John 15:5-9 & 16 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love."

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

Your religion by it's own doctrine dictates you must provide works. And the works are the same as all other religions, grow the church as that's the only way we humans can glorify the father according to your book. You are not getting whatever you ask nor are you adding numbers to the church. You have no freewill in this as your master clearly states you do not choose it, it chose you. So obviously you do not abide in it. Otherwise you'd spread love not bigotry.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; If you desire to glorify the Father through works, you must first comply with His will via faith (John 6:29).

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If you desire to glorify the Father through works, you must first comply with His will via faith (John 6:29).

And as I proved your elf book says without works that glorify the father your faith is dead because those works justify you. You're gathered and burned Just like other religions.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; If one says they're a Christian but they continue to live for the World in sin, they were never of faith to begin with. Faith (noun) that saves the soul produces faith (verb) that is honored by the Holy Spirit who produces divine fruit through them which validates their faith as true and legitimate and redemptive (noun). John 15:8

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If one says they're a Christian but they continue to live for the World in sin, they were never of faith to begin with. Faith (noun) that saves the soul produces faith (verb) that is honored by the Holy Spirit who produces divine fruit through them which validates their faith as true and legitimate and redemptive (noun). John 15:8

So your bible teaches faith plus works. Works don't save you, at the same time faith don't save you unless works accompany it. Neither saves you alone. Just like other religions.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; "Faith" (noun) initiates New Covenant relationship (John 3; Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 2:16). That Faith (noun) naturally produces good works due the "new creation" that is formed by faith (noun) in Messiah Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The works (verb) naturally produced subsequent salvation by faith (noun) are not a prerequisite to salvation but evidence of true salvation (John 15:8); in fact, works that are performed with the motive of earning salvation are considered as a "filthy garment" in the nose of Elohim (Isaiah 64:6); therefore, works play no part in salvation but as evidence of salvation that is initiated by faith (noun) alone.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your bible says demons believe in god yet they're cast into the lake of fire. I've shown the verses and you've failed to refute the fact that faith alone doesn't save you. The few verses you claim do make that point always is said faith is accounted with the caveat and overall biblical context that works accompany true faith. James said demons truly believe and John says they're still cast away.

Also you might think 1 Corinthians 3:15 declares one can be saved though their works are burned up but it's not saying faith alone saved them.

"If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."

The "builder" is the context and prerequisite for this verse as it's made clear a few verses prior...

1 Corinthians 3: 10-14: By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

Paul was talking of the works faith produces. He's teaching how a true faith will inspire works but some people apparently do the wrong things thinking they're glorifying the father when they're not. But because they truly believed what they built was inspired by their belief in the Father and trusted in that faith, they are saved, barely. They are saved because their faith produced works though their works themselves did not please god. They were in error but none the less works were produced as faith alone is nonexistent without works as James 2 shows you.

James says 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

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Rickey, the number 1 BIBLE FOOL of this Religion Forum, bar none!

YOUR QUOTE ABOUT ONLY NEEDING FAITH TO PLEASE YOUR SERIAL KILLER GOD JESUS: "therefore, works play no part in salvation but as evidence of salvation that is initiated by faith (noun) alone."
https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/180017/#Comment_180017

Rickey, okay, since you believe in this faith only doctrine from the inspired word of your serial killer Jesus, then you are to put your faith into action, are you ready to do this simple act? Don't be scared and runaway from your "faith" again!

JESUS SAID: " He replied, 'Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” (Matthew 17:20)

RICKEY, READY? To prove your “faith alone,” concept, and especially in what Jesus said you could do if you truly have “faith” in the above verse, get in your automobile and find a mountain near you and say to this mountain; "move from here to there," like Jesus said, "it will move" if you have true faith!

We will be watching the National News Tonight, and in the future as well, to see that a True Christian named Rickey Holtsclaw moved a mountain in his area as a true believer and has Jesus said he could!

Remember Rickey: "If You can?" echoed Jesus. "All things are possible to him who believes!” (Mark 9:23)

MEMBERSHIP:

Be sure to watch the National News in the following days where Rickey proved his "faith" doctrine of Christianity and actually moved a mountain near his living area!

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; O foolish and ignorant atheist...there is nothing that suggests Jesus was talking about literally moving mountains but that life's obstacles that appear to be mountainous in their impedance to a need or plan or hope is overcome with faith the equivalent of a muster-seed. Do you not even try to find Truth and Life in Jesus?

14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”

17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.

19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”

20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” [21] [a]

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; No one is justified by works...but by faith...alone. Faith that justifies will produce works that validate said faith as true but faith first, works second.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No one is justified by works...but by faith...alone. Faith that justifies will produce works that validate said faith as true but faith first, works second.

You're admitting that the bible is in error or lying because it clearly states the opposite of what you say. In context it does say a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone...

James 2:19-26...

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The Bible is not in error, you are in your arrogance and wilful spiritual ignorance. Faith that is true...saving faith (noun) will produce works that honor the Father but those works don't earn one's salvation, those works that follow salvation authenticate and validate one's saving faith as true. Faith that does not manifest change in an individual is not true faith, just empty words but faith that is true will result in works, fruit, that honors the Father...but these FOLLOW salvation by faith, those works are NOT CAUSATIVE but a RESULTANT of.

12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

The Bible is not in error,

You said faith alone saves you. You pretend listing scriptures supports you and offer no insight of your own why your bible also makes it clear works justifies a person. Do you have any cognitive abilities at all? Talking about nouns and verbs only make you look dumb. Doesn't matter causation or resulted, without works you're not justified. What works do you have, besides bigotry?

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Was the thief on the cross next to Jesus "justified" void works?

32 Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33 And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”[b] And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35 And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38 There was also an inscription over him,[c] “This is the King of the Jews.”

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him,[d] saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The thief simply expressed faith in Jesus as Lord and he was saved...apart from any works.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Was the thief on the cross next to Jesus "justified" void works?

No he wasn't. Once he truly believed what did he do according to your book? He chastised the other thief for thinking Jesus should set them free, then proclaimed his faith in jesus. Those are in line with the type of works believers are supposed to produce for justification.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Belief is not a work but a mental assent to the Truth. It is the one who believes that is justified.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Belief is not a work but a mental assent to the Truth. It is the one who believes that is justified.

Not what your bible says.

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Demons are not offered salvation as they were in the presence of Elohim, served Him personally and fully understand the benefits of the Kingdom yet "chose" to rebel and follow their anointed cherub leadership. Angels are spirit, they do not die.

The only justification that works manifest is as a sign or validation of saving faith (noun). It is the one who "believes" that is justified concerning intimacy with the Father; that is, the one who believes with a sincere heart that Jesus is Messiah who died for them (John 3)....the works that follow New Covenant relationship are validation of the Holy Spirit's presence in their life as the Holy Spirit is Guarantor of New Covenant relationship with the Father for all who believe.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Demons are not offered salvation as they were in the presence of Elohim, served Him personally and fully understand the benefits of the Kingdom yet "chose" to rebel and follow their anointed cherub leadership. Angels are spirit, they do not die.

Think for a minute about what you just said. Ever wonder why demons who fully understood who/what god is would choose to rebel? They obviously as you said, understood the benefits of the kingdom implying belief in the kingdom and who/what god is as they served him personally. Did their belief save them? Why would a being in such an intimate proximity to god, especially an angelic being, choose eternal suffering?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Demon are angels who rebelled against Elohim just like you have rebelled against Elohim...the resultant of free will, narcissism, arrogance, self-sufficiency in wilful ignorance. A majority of the World will perish in Hell due the same mentality as you and the demons...this is reality and stupidity defined...but...it's truth. Choose whom you will serve.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Demon are angels who rebelled against Elohim just like you have rebelled against Elohim...the resultant of free will, narcissism, arrogance, self-sufficiency in wilful ignorance.

So you're too dumb to think. Why did they rebel? I know what your programing says, I read that garbage many times. What I want to know is why did they rebel?

Freewill isn't free will if a sadistic master punishes them forever simply for exercising freewill in a benign way like not wanting to play with you. Your master's narcissism? Yeah I can see that but if they knew your master was what it was they would never choose eternal flames even if your elf god is narcissistic. So no that's not the reason ricky, why did they rebel knowing it was futile? Arrogance? No even though your whore is arrogant and says worship me or else; fully understanding the stakes they'd continue to worship the fool. Contentment in self willed ignorance? No as you said they served god personally so if they were ignorant it could only be cause of a secrete that was kept from them intentionally. Like they were slated for punishment from the time before they existed by a smug, content master. That is the only thing that would make sense.

You see ricky? I do not know your master though at one time I thought I did. So for the angelic rebellion to be "like mine" they couldn't have known god either so like me it wouldn't be a rebellion it'd be a rejection of fallacies and myth. Now if you spend less time trying to insult me I'll spend less time insulting your master. I'm asking you for your thoughts and opinions on these and other questions. I already know what your book says so I'll always reject dogmatic responses for what they are.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; They rebelled for the very same reason you are rebelling...pride & arrogance. You lost me when you said "I think" because atheists, like demons, don't think....they're narcissists.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

They rebelled for the very same reason you are rebelling...pride & arrogance. You lost me when you said "I think" because atheists, like demons, don't think....they're narcissists.

You admit you're lost when someone uses the term "I think" when you're aware they're much more intelligent than you. Interesting how simple minded bad cops are.

What? You're content serving a narcissistic pig god and this is how you represent it's true nature? Abusing your badge and gladly kneeling down before the crotch of a masculine elf god in perverse submissive reverence before all the world because it commands you to display stupidity so all could know what's required to worship it? You proudly boast gleefully of the mindless fallacy of your faith.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; OK...it's your life. We're done.

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Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

OK...it's your life. We're done.

Conceding when confronted with facts, truth, wisdom and logic? Good boy.

21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

.
RICKEYHOLTSCLAW, the number one BIBLE FOOL of this Religion Forum,

YOUR BLITHERING DUMBFOUNDED QUOTE RELATIVE TO JESUS SAYING THAT IF YOU HAVE FAITH AS TINY AS A MUSTARD SEED, YOU CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS!: “there is nothing that suggests Jesus was talking about literally moving mountains but that life's obstacles that appear to be mountainous in their impedance to a need or plan or hope is overcome with faith the equivalent of a muster-seed”

WRONG BIBLE FOOL! Jesus did suggest in a LITERAL form that pseudo-christians like YOU can move mountains as shown herewith in Matthew 17:20; “move from here to there, and it will move, NOTHING WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU. Get it Bible Dummy pseudo-christian? Huh?

JESUS SAID: " He replied, 'Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” (Matthew 17:20)

Therefore, you are calling Jesus a in his speaking literally in Matthew 17:20, whereas your primitive Bronze and Iron Age bible says that Jesus DOES NOT LIE!

“So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us.” (Hebrews 6:18)“In hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began.” (Titus 1:2)

RICKEYHOLTSCLAW: Show the membership BIBLICAL CITATIONS, and not some apologetic hearsay jabberwockey nonsense that you spew forth ad infinitum, where in the Bible does it say that when Jesus speaks literally, as shown above relative to pseudo-christians can move mountains, it really means something else not relative to moving said mountains in a literal form!

BEGIN:

NEXT DUMBFOUNDED PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN LIKE ….”RICKEYHOLTSCLAW” …. THAT CALLS JESUS A “” IN MATTHEW 17:20, WILL BE ……..?

.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@21CenturyIconoclast ; Simply because you're an arrogant, vulgar, rude, atheist and you don't understand Scripture these attributes are no reason to be angry.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Simply because you're an arrogant, vulgar, rude, atheist and you don't understand Scripture these attributes are no reason to be angry.

Simply because you're an arrogant, vulgar, rude, theist and you don't understand Scripture these attributes are no reason to be angry.

MayCaesar

"Copy-cat" is a little too harsh. Humans naturally built their ideas on top of existing knowledge, and when it comes to philosophy and fiction, their work is always derivative from something that preceded the authors. For example, the Dungeon and Dragons universe was inspired by Tolkien's work, whose universe was inspired by Nordic, Slavic, English and many other folklores, which, in turn, were inspired by ancient mythology, which probably were a follow-up from prehistoric tribal campfire stories.

As for the claim that the authors of the Bible discovered some knowledge that was not found before them - that is debatable. Certain ideas in the Bible - such as "turn the other cheek" - may have been fairly novel, but it is hard to imagine that they just came out of the blue, that one carpenter out of nowhere started promoting them. I am not aware of this idea being seriously considered by the Ancient Greek philosophers, but they did consider the general idea of pacifism and non-violent opposition to tyranny: Epicurus, for instance, advocated for full acceptance of death regardless of where it comes from, and that idea is an arm's length away from the idea that if someone offends you, you will not go wrong by not only not reacting negatively to the offense, but making the offender's job easier by exposing yourself to them fully and accepting everything.

Then again, it is very hard to find any idea that someone came up with fully on their own.

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

"Copy-cat" is a little too harsh. Humans naturally built their ideas on top of existing knowledge, and when it comes to philosophy and fiction, their work is always derivative from something that preceded the authors. For example, the Dungeon and Dragons universe was inspired by Tolkien's work, whose universe was inspired by Nordic, Slavic, English and many other folklores, which, in turn, were inspired by ancient mythology, which probably were a follow-up from prehistoric tribal campfire stories.

As for the claim that the authors of the Bible discovered some knowledge that was not found before them - that is debatable. Certain ideas in the Bible - such as "turn the other cheek" - may have been fairly novel, but it is hard to imagine that they just came out of the blue, that one carpenter out of nowhere started promoting them. I am not aware of this idea being seriously considered by the Ancient Greek philosophers, but they did consider the general idea of pacifism and non-violent opposition to tyranny: Epicurus, for instance, advocated for full acceptance of death regardless of where it comes from, and that idea is an arm's length away from the idea that if someone offends you, you will not go wrong by not only not reacting negatively to the offense, but making the offender's job easier by exposing yourself to them fully and accepting everything.

Then again, it is very hard to find any idea that someone came up with fully on their own.

While Christianity shares many beliefs with Judaism which precedes it, Christianity is uniquely rooted in a historical event - the death and resurrection of Jesus. This event is the catalyst of the faith and the fundamental belief. It is rare to see religions based on a historical event. If some event in some other religion is shown to not be true, it would not invalidate the religion. However, Christianity, does make a unique historical claim. As the Apostle Paul put it

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. - 1 Corinthians 15:17-19

I believe there is strong evidence that the claims of Jesus death and resurrection are true. The Apostle Paul quoted an early Christian creed in I Corinthians 15 that scholars date to no more than 18 months after the resurrection.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-7t

The creed says that Jesus died, was buried and rose again on the third day. It names specific people Jesus appeared to. This creed fits well with the testimonies of Matthew, John, James, and Peter.

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James 2:26: “For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.” What is James teaching in context?

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