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On the point of welfare why you would not think of tax cuts as financially supporting is beyond me. You literally are arguing to remove the taxes cuts for the poor because you do not seem them as morally right. When you say that everyone "should" be taxed at 10% you are removing the financial support low income receive via tax breaks. It's like saying hey I know things are tough for you, so you don't have to chip in as much as everyone else it's cool, everyone else will support you and cover your part.
Now as for the technical definition, sure isn't being correctly applied when applied to the rich, that's why I clarified how I was defining it when I used the word. (you know to be honest) This is not Definitional Retreat because we have not defined the word welfare before now. And you are dishonestly accusing me of things I did not do. You are of course welcome to dispute the definition I used,(as you have done) It's obviously not from a independent 3rd party source so you have grounds, but it's a fair definition in the higher levels of abstraction and allows me to compare apples to apples. I can use financial support if you want, it really doesn't matter what the term is so long as the concept is conveyed.
You ARE a dishonest debater. I showed proof how you are being dishonest in your arguments, to call you dishonest isn't an ad hominem fallacy because it relates to the way you present your arguments. I'm not skipping the argument and attacking the person, I'm calling you out on the way you are debating your points as dishonest. Here is a link about what is and what is not an ad hominem attack. Read educate and hopefully come back better.
http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html
On the accusation of red herring. Really?
You say 36k are criminals and I say we have 320 million people in this country (implying 36k is not a "big" number)
You say criminals were "let go" and I say the justice system lets people go all the time, that's not a immigrant issue that's a justice system issue
When I respond directly to what you say, it's not a red herring, as I'm not the one who brought up the topic... you are. Then you indicate that the "justice system" is a different topic. You know the justice system that let your immigrate go free... And somehow me making comments about the justice system which let the immigrants go free is completely a different topic that has no bearing on this debate and should be equated to me bring up dinosaurs. Did I mention you are a dishonest debater yet? I feel like it needs to be said again.
So I've provided clear and concise explanations for why your argument is invalid, how about you stop with the drama and theatrics mkay?
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"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".
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"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
"Oh, you don't like my sarcasm? Well I don't much appreciate your stup!d".
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There is zero practical reason to deport undocumented immigrants. Doing so does not create any benefits; it does not save money it does not help anyone. In fact deportation costs billions of dollars and ruins the life of the people being deported. No intelligent moral person would spend their money ruining peoples lives.
C) All the studies on immigration find that it is a net positive for natives economic well being. Here are some examples:
1- The Mariel boatlift is when Miamis population saw an influx of low skilled immigrants equal to 7% of its population. Studies find that this very large influx did not harm natives[1]
2- In 1965 America kicked out millions of Mexican farm workers. The result was that areas that had the most Mexican workers kicked out had the worst economic performance[2].
3- Low skilled immigration improves economic wages by 1%[3].
4- Cities with higher low immigration populations had natives with a 40% reduced chance of losing their job[4].
[1]https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/23/15855342/immigrants-wages-trump-economics-mariel-boatlift-hispanic-cuban
[2]http://voxeu.org/article/impact-immigration-barriers-native-workers
[3]http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/08/how-immigration-benefits-natives.html
[4]http://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/immigrants-equilibrate-local-labor-markets-evidence-from-the-great-recession/
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"A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
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So if you want to talk about illegal immigration, I think it would be fair to say that Europeans, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, Indians from India, Polish, British, so on and so forth, should be deported back to whatever land they came from and return all the stolen property back to their rightful owners. Black Americans were forced to come here by white European Americans, thus, they as well should not be deported back to the land that they were forced out of and forced to come to America.
When it comes to illegal immigration, make sure you know history, and I mean actual history, not white washed history.
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Now, I am not saying that it validates allowing illegal immigrants to stay here legally. I am simply saying that the premise behind this argument is not based on reality. There is almost no way a Mexican worker working on a farm in Texas illegally right now can do the same on legal grounds, through the general visa application. Which, again, is not necessarily a bad thing - I do agree that the country should attract investors and high-profile specialists, rather than manual laborers. It just should be argued from a reasonable position, not from one that misrepresents the current US immigration system.
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This is why the US needs to overhaul that. Those laws are pretry regressive IMO. Being selective about who immigrates to countries is something that might work fine during national emergencies, wars, etc.
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"They take away our jobs" They also create jobs in the form of businesses.
"They are too lazy and on welfare" No they aren't. Just above, you accused them of taking your jobs.
"They don't know English" Most illegals do know English. The ones who don't should get deported, but not to Latin America. They can get deported to Quebec instead, where the language is easier to learn for the Latin Immigrants and it is away from the violence.
"They murder Americans" So do Legal Americans. All murderers should be killed, but most illegals are not murderers. They are also less likely to commit crime then legal counterparts unless you count being here illegally as a crime.
"They get free education" So do Legal Americans. In fact, many illegals com here as adults and therefor don't need education. They instead will be paying for the youth's education.
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I agree with you except for the death penalty part
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Being selective is fine in my book, but being blind to reality is not. If someone has lived here for 5 years, worked a proper job, paid taxes, speaks English fluently, etc. - then there is no reason to not grant them citizenship, as they at this point are Americans in everything but legal status. There is also no reason to not accept people who have a job offer from the US, but did not win a ticket in some arbitrary quota lottery. Or to not accept people who gave up on everything they had in their home countries and want to do an honest living in a prosperous society.
There are people the US is better off without. A lot of the categories not legally accepted currently are not those people, however. The system needs to change, albeit it is hard to prescribe the exact policies to implement.
For starters, the government could do what the high-tech company leaders have been proposing for a long time now: guarantee citizenship to everyone who obtained a degree in a government-recognized university in the US. I realize that I have a personal stake here, but even if I did not, it seems like the best way to assure that the US keeps a lot of high-profile specialists.
I have a friend, a very talented physicist, who is currently working on his PhD in the US, and afterwards wants to move to Italy permanently. Creating a clear incentive for him to stay in the US would obviously benefit the country. And there are dozens thousands people in his shoes, many of which will go back to their home countries or move somewhere else, depriving the US of being able to utilize their potential.
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