are you lucky?

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx

I really don't understand your use of "decision" with regards to luck... There is no decision, just a description...

Dee

@maxx

*****

you must have a problem reading and or putting words into others post. ****

No I’ve no problem at all. Where is this alternate definition of luck you claimed you could “easily” find?

****random events occur in nature, chance and coincidences occur but it is how humans interpret these event that decide if humans are lucky. 

But luck is still luck chance it’s still a random event 

****is there a intelligence in nature that decides if a random event is lucky for a person? you are very close to believing in providenc


My point remains luck / chance are one and the same 

Dee

@Maxx ;

You never addressed this ......

****I am sorry to point it out but there is no luck in nature; there is only random events that our brain decides as what is or is not lucky

How do go about proving that?

It has sometimes been suggested that luck exists only if a certain interpretation of quantum mechanics is true: if causality is not “deterministic”. If physical determinism is true then every event that occurs is entirely predictable (in principle), by someone who knows enough about the universe and its laws.

If indeterministic physics is true, then such predictability is not possible: no one, no matter how much they know can predict every event that happens, even in principle.

maxx

@Phttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck ; hopefully this explains it better than i can affelvohfen

maxx

@Phttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck ; hopefully this explains it better than i can affelvohfen @Dee @Dee

maxx

and if that is true, then there is a intelligent factor behind quantum mechanics  you already in another post on the idea of one creating their own reality as some phyisicts suggest.  a belief in luck is a belief in fate.  it is a fallacy, humans decide what luck is and without humans, there are only chance happenings; with out humans how can a chance happening be luck?@Dee

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx

That's exactly what I'm saying, to quote from the page : "Being "lucky" or "unlucky" is simply a descriptive label that points out an event's positivity, negativity, or improbability.".

Supernatural interpretations of luck can be a dismissed as ridiculous nonsense...

maxx

that is what I am saying, luck only exists as a label in our minds, not as a force in nature. humans decide what is lucky from a random event@Plaffelvohfen

Dee

@maxx

You keep missing the point from the very start I made one point regarding definitions and that was luck / chance are one and the same thing I’ve demonstrated this you’re flogging a dead horse but that’s so you isn’t it?

Plaffelvohfen

maxx said:

that is what I am saying, luck only exists as a label in our minds, not as a force in nature. humans decide what is lucky from a random event@Plaffelvohfen

Humans don't "decide" whether some result is "lucky" or "unlucky"... They observe the result and only describe it as such... Your use of the word "decision" is perplexing, as it implies a will of some sort where none is involved...

maxx

what I am saying is that when we say something is lucky, it is just an idea we place upon a random chance event.  luck exists with in our minds only because we humans describe an event on how we perceive if the event brings us good or bad fortune, luck in reality is a fallacy for it only exists as an idea that we have; it is similar to fate, it is a superstition.  you both are mincing words too much. if there were no humans around there would still be random events; however would you if you could possibly observe somehow this random event without humans being there, would you still call the event luck? of course not, we make luck up just like many other concepts. if you probed into the psychology of luck verses reality, then maybe that may explain it far better than I can.  in the absence of humans, if a lightening bolt struck a rock and uncovered a vein of gold, to whom is it lucky to?  no one for it requires a human to say it is lucky; for with out humans, it is only a random event. luck is in our minds and chance is not; they are in actuality, two separate things. @Plaffelvohfen

maxx

dee, I assume that you have a good luck charm as well, is it a 4 leaf clover, a rabbits foot and did your god of luck give it to you.  you seem incapable of logic or something. once again, answer the question  if a random chance event happened in the absence on humans, to whom is it lucky for> ? humans have to be there to put a label of luck upon the event.  earlier you called me a bigot; def: a person who is not tolerant to other peoples beliefs. wow, is that calling the kettle black. By that definition, ypu are one of the biggest bigots here just by your posts upon you trolling on religious sites; and since you favor insults rather than logic, I guess you wont answer the first part of this paragraph, just the second.  how can an event, a random chance happening be considered luck? go by simple logic; look up online if luck actually exists, go to a good college library and browse science journals on luck. it does not exist  out side of the human frame work.  psychologists say so but they must be wrong for you say so. luck is a fallacy, a superstition, and belongs in the same category as the idea of fate; providence, fortune cookies and old wives tales. @Dee

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx

Luck cannot be a "fallacy", because a fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning... Luck is a descriptive label, it's not even remotely a "reasoning"... 

See, your last comment shows faulty reasoning, and is thus fallacious... Now, as your link to the wikipedia article mention, there are 2 very distinct interpretations of luck, those are completely different from one another.
The first is the naturalistic interpretation (where luck is just a descriptive label) and the second is the supernatural interpretation (where luck is an attribute of a person or object...), and you seem to move from one to the other as if they were the same interpretation in your argumentation...

As an analogy, it's like you were debating Quantum mechanics using both the Copenhagen interpretation and the Many-world interpretation as if they were the same... They both talk about the same thing (QM) but they are 2 very different things...

Dee

@maxx

***** dee, I assume that you have a good luck charm as well, is it a 4 leaf clover, a rabbits foot and did your god of luck give it to you.  you seem incapable of logic or something. once again, answer the question  if a random chance event happened in the absence on humans, to whom is it lucky for> ? humans have to be there to put a label of luck upon the event.  

Listen you for the final time our argument was about definitions I’ve proven you wrong luck is defined as chance get over  it ......Like the compulsive you are you stated “ I can easily find definitions that dispute that “ yet you cannot because there are none ,you’re beaten yet again

****earlier you called 

me a bigot; def: a person who is not tolerant to other peoples beliefs. wow, is that calling the kettle black. 

That’s what you are 8 other people told you the same ....At least have the balls to admit you see same sex couples as subhuman 

***/By that definition, ypu are one of the biggest bigots here just by your posts upon you trolling on religious sites;

I don’t troll the religious , I ask them to address what’s written in their sacred books but yet again you’re attempting to deflect from your naked bigotry and racism 

***And  since you favor insults rather than logic,

I never insulted you I called you a bigot , a racist and an , I stand by my initial assessment 

 ***I guess you wont answer the first part of this paragraph, just the second.  how can an event, a random chance happening be considered luck? 

Back to your dead horse again , you need read the entire thread and see that my argument is still on definitions which I won (as usual) with my first salvo 

****go by simple logic; look up online if luck actually exists, go to a good college library and browse science journals on luck. it does not exist  out side of the human frame work.  psychologists say so but they must be wrong for you say so. luck is a fallacy, a superstition, and belongs in the same category as the idea of fate; providence, fortune cookies and old wives tales.

You seem to be arguing with yourself you and simple logic had you agreeing they had T V sets in Atlantis go away you silly bigot 

maxx

luck is a fallacy outside of the human mind. it is pure superstition outside of our mind, it is akin to fate and providence.   do you believe oin fate and providence?@Plaffelvohfen

maxx

nope  you do troll and you are one of the biggest bigots here@Dee .  look up both definitions and they strongly apply to you,  as well you are once again incapable of a debate. you do not understand logic and you have to resort to name calling when you can not answer a question logically or do not understand something. I feel sorry for you  

maxx

nope  you do troll and you are one of the biggest bigots here@Dee .  look up both definitions and they strongly apply to you,  as well you are once again incapable of a debate. you do not understand logic and you have to resort to name calling when you can not answer a question logically or do not understand something. I feel sorry for you  dee

maxx

nope  you do troll and you are one of the biggest bigots here@Dee .  look up both definitions and they strongly apply to you,  as well you are once again incapable of a debate. you do not understand logic and you have to resort to name calling when you can not answer a question logically or do not understand something. I feel sorry for you  dee

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx

You yet again demonstrate you don't understand the word "fallacy" and you should refrain from using it until you fully grasp the concept... 

I'll restate because it seems to have flown way over your head, try to pay attention and respond to this specific point if you can.

"Now, as your link to the wikipedia article mention, there are 2 very distinct interpretations of luck, those are completely different from one another.
The first is the naturalistic interpretation (where luck is just a descriptive label) and the second is the supernatural interpretation (where luck is an attribute of a person or object...), and you seem to move from one to the other as if they were the same interpretation in your argumentation...

As an analogy, it's like you were debating Quantum mechanics using both the Copenhagen interpretation and the Many-world interpretation as if they were the same... They both talk about the same thing (QM) but they are 2 very different things..."

Dee

@maxx

*****

nope  you do troll and you are one of the biggest bigots here

Says the guy who’s spent a week attacking same self couples, you were put in your place over your bigotry by 8 people on your thread but yet you’re not the bigot .....Oookay 

Hey why not attack blacks next or the handicapped al, easy targets for you aren’t they?


****  look up both definitions and they strongly apply to you, 

Zzzzz zzzzzz ......Yeah right says the guy who 8 people proved was a bitter little bigot 

 ****/as well you are once again incapable of a debate. 

I know I don’t believe they had T V sets in Atlantis like you Bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha 

*****you do not understand logic and you have to resort to name calling when you can not answer a question logically or do not understand something

logic as in you stating “ dictionaries are nonsense “ oooookay ? BTW where your new revised definition “ you said “ I can easily find “ ? You’re a lying bigoted  

*****I feel sorry for you  

Well I guess an hour in front of your T V set in Atlantis will cure that ....bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha 

maxx

a fallacy is something that only exists as a false statement; when someone says good and bad luck exists as a force in nature, they are engaging in a fallacy. believing in luck is the same as believing in fate.  or do you believe that everthing is deterministic??  please feel free to show me an example where good or bad luck exists in the absence of humans.@Plaffelvohfen

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx

Maxx.... A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning...... A false statement is not a fallacy, it's just a false statement... Can't you learn from your mistakes?

I'll agree though that fallacious reasoning can lead to the belief in a supernatural interpretation of luck, but luck itself cannot be a fallacy by definition, so stop saying it is you're making a fool of yourself and then whine that some people treat you harshly... 

In the absence of human or otherwise sentient beings, improbable events/results would still occur in nature, there would just not be anyone to describe them... And those improbable events would still have objectively positive or negative outcomes, so the labeling as "lucky" or "unlucky" would still be valid absent humans... You have to understand that Luck is not an attribute but a description...

maxx

you know, definitions are random; they depend upon which one you believe n. for instance I look it up and see the word fallacy means: a mistaken belief, especially one based on an unsound argument. i.e. faulty reasoning. I am not sure where you are from but you are too strict with your words.  no, luck itself is not a fallacy, but those who say luck exists outside of the human brain are engaging in a fallacy. yes, luck is an attribute but a human one, not an attribute of nature. you also stated that in the absence of humans, improbable events will still occur; that part I agree with. however, you go on to say that these  improbable events in the absence of humans will still have positive and or negative outcomes.  To whom? just because humans would claim that a planet blowing up is a negative event; it still takes humans to believe what is negative or positive. with out humans there are no positive or negative events.  just events.  @Plaffelvohfen

Plaffelvohfen

@maxx



OK, I'm done here...

maxx

yeah, well good luck@Plaffelvohfen

maxx

yeah, well good luck@Plaffelvohfen

maxx

you may as well believe that good and evil and freedom and morality exists in nature also. once again, dont believe me, but look it up yourself. we may be at an impasse with the understanding of words, I do not know. show me where in the absence of humans that a random event is good or bad, positive or negative. @Plaffelvohfen

maxx

you may as well believe that good and evil and freedom and morality exists in nature also. once again, dont believe me, but look it up yourself. we may be at an impasse with the understanding of words, I do not know. show me where in the absence of humans that a random event is good or bad, positive or negative. @Plaffelvohfen

Dee

@maxx

Take your beating like a man , I’ve corrected your stupidity from my first salvo @Plaffelvohfen put the final nail in your coffin,  move on and be thankful that time was spent investing some much needed education on your part 

maxx

im going to attempt once more. you claim that in the absence of living beings, a random chance event is still positive or negative, good or bad, yet you fail to say who is is good or bad to when there are no humans involved. now, unless an event actually affects a living being, an event is neither good or bad, it is just an event.  even with humans, an event has to affect a person before he says it is good or bad luck for him. How many times have you heard of a black hole destroying a star?  Do you jump up and down yelling, ow wow that is great luck; do you walk away saying, bad luck?  no, for it doesn't affect you. unless a random chance event affects us, then it is just a random event. luck is only in your minds. luck and chance are not the same. chance is something that just happens and luck is the human attribute we place upon the chance. do you understand golf? if one makes a hole-in-one, it is either skill or chance; if it is chance then is up to the golfer to claim it was lucky. now take away the golfer but leave the golf ball on the course.  a sudden wind blows the ball into the hole. that is a chance happening and there is no good or bad luck associated with it because ther are no humans involved. just by simple logic luck does not exist in nature, but only exists when a human put the concept upon a chance event, therefore luck exists only with-in our minds.@Plaffelvohfen