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is it good for the child?
in General

By maxxmaxx 172 Pts
should a gay couple( male or female) be allowed to adopt a child?
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Arguments

  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 3
    ye
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2310 Pts
    edited December 1
    I do not accept the whole narrative that "a child needs a father and a mother to grow up whole". There is plenty of kids growing up in one-parent families that turn out just fine, and there is plenty of kids growing up in heterosexual two-parent families that turn out messed up. It is not about the genders of the parents involved, or the number of the parents; it is about how good of the parents they are.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a male couple, or a female couple, raising children. I have known a lesbian couple from Virginia, and they were absolutely amazing people; if they ever adopt a child, then it will be one happy child, knowing only endless love and affection and no struggles (the girls are also well educated, so they are going to be financially well off).

    Statistically, perhaps the narrative is correct, albeit I have yet to see any research supporting it, and I have seen plenty of research implying the opposite. But policies should not be adopted based on statistics; they should be adopted based on their own merit. Applying different adoption rules to different gender parents or parent couples would be a mistake.
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 1
    Overcrowded orphanages are a problem and adopting couples of any type can help reduce the number of orphan kids. Sexuality does not matter. What matters is orphan children getting loving homes from adoptive parents.


    From source: As Mallon (2007) stated, “Not all gay and lesbian people should be foster or adoptive parents. In the same way, not all nongay people would make suitable foster or adoptive parents” (p. 84). Deciding to adopt is an important step and should be meaningfully considered and weighed by potential parents. However, the sexual orientation of the person should not affect that choice or keep that person from pursuing the option if so desired. Gay and lesbian couples should be considered and assessed via an adoption process that is respectful, culturally sensitive, and strengths-based (Matthews & Cramer, 2006). Gay and lesbian adoptive parents, as well as heterosexual adoptive parents, face challenges and issues in their families. Although the emotional and behavioral issues of their children can provide challenges for adoptive parents, their parents’ sexual orientation does not impact their ability to face those challenges.

    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • @maxx ; No!  Permitting a sexually immoral couple to adopt children is child abuse. Forcing the confusion, sin and hopelessness of homosexuality - lesbianism - transsexualism upon an innocent and impressionable child is unconscionable and placing them in an environment that spits in the face of our Creator and His immutable Covenant of Marriage is satanic. No child should be subject to the godless behavior of the homosexual-lesbian-transsexual-queer. To force a child to live under the roof of demonic same-sex unions is symptomatic of a morally sick and demented society!


    smoothie
  • It is important for a child to have role models and teachers from which to learn as much as possible so that they can be successful and beneficial to society in adulthood.

    The question is: can same-sex parents make good role models and teachers? As usual, I will fall on the scientific data as much as possible, although I would like to note that our modern conception of parenthood by two parents was not the norm for most of our tribal existence, where the child was raised as a member of the tribe and not the child of the parents.

    https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Citation/2018/09000/Same_Sex_and_Different_Sex_Parent_Families_in.4.aspx
    https://www.livescience.com/17913-advantages-gay-parents.html

    The data seems to support the conclusion that same sex couples are at least as good parents as heterosexual couples.

    With gay couples, because they have to adopt I can't really see any downside here. The child gets to be raised in a family, which has benefits for the child's future. There are only positives here.
    smoothie
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    edited December 1
    the idea is, the child may turn out; well, gay to put it bluntly, just due to the role models it is growing up with.  should gay parents change and do this to an adoptive child who normally would probably grow up straight?  @Happy_Killbot
  • @RickeyD I could say the same about forcing impressionable children to live with christian parents that kick gay kids onto the street, force them to go to church and get touched by preachers, and live in constant fear of satan for their whole life. That is actual child abuse yet it is seen as blessed.

    Again, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. So your religious arguement goes out the window yet again. If your only arguement is that it is against your religion, then its pretty weak.
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • @smoothie ; You could say the same but you do so by spiritual ignorance. The ONLY hope a child has in this life constrained by Time is a life lived in obedience to and love for Jesus Christ.


    smoothie
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 1


    From source:

    As the social visibility and legal status of lesbian and gay parents has increased, three major concerns about the influence of lesbian and gay parents on children have been often voiced (Falk, 1994; Patterson, Fulcher & Wainright, 2002). One is that the children of lesbian and gay parents will experience more difficulties in the area of sexual identity than children of heterosexual parents. For instance, one such concern is that children brought up by lesbian mothers or gay fathers will show disturbances in gender identity and/or in gender role behavior. A second category of concerns involves aspects of children's personal development other than sexual identity. For example, some observers have expressed fears that children in the custody of gay or lesbian parents would be more vulnerable to mental breakdown, would exhibit more adjustment difficulties and behavior problems, or would be less psychologically healthy than other children. A third category of concerns is that children of lesbian and gay parents will experience difficulty in social relationships. For example, some observers have expressed concern that children living with lesbian mothers or gay fathers will be stigmatized, teased, or otherwise victimized by peers. Another common fear is that children living with gay or lesbian parents will be more likely to be sexually abused by the parent or by the parent's friends or acquaintances.

    Results of social science research have failed to confirm any of these concerns about children of lesbian and gay parents (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999). Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2004a). Studies of other aspects of personal development (including personality, self-concept, and conduct) similarly reveal few differences between children of lesbian mothers and children of heterosexual parents (Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999). However, few data regarding these concerns are available for children of gay fathers (Patterson, 2004b). Evidence also suggests that children of lesbian and gay parents have normal social relationships with peers and adults (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001; Tasker, 1999; Tasker & Golombok, 1997). The picture that emerges from research is one of general engagement in social life with peers, parents, family members, and friends. Fears about children of lesbian or gay parents being sexually abused by adults, ostracized by peers, or isolated in single-sex lesbian or gay communities have received no scientific support. Overall, results of research suggest that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from that of children with heterosexual parents.

    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • @maxx

    How can one assess whether a child would "normally" grow up straight? The science on what determines one's sexuality is very uncertain as of now, and while the environment probably plays a significant role in it, it is not clear whether it is all there is to it, or if perhaps biology plays a comparable or even a bigger role here.

    You also could turn this around and ask if a child who was biologically prone to become homosexual would not become one when growing with heterosexual parents. See, your argument goes both ways.

    This does not seem to be a relevant issue to consider. Not to mention that whether one is homosexual or not has absolutely zero impact on their quality of life, aside from homosexuals having perhaps a harder dating life. So why worry about whether a child becomes homosexual or not?
    smoothie
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    umm perhaps you should go troll some where else, ok. you are not welcome here, and you will be reported if you do not leave. this is npt about religion.@RickeyD
    smoothieHappy_KillbotPlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • @RickeyD

    The second kid is adorable and unique; he is likely to grow up to be an independent non-conformist individual. The first kid seems to be praying to the Great Leader Kim Jong Un, and I do not see his future as overly optimistic.

    If you wanted to make an argument in support of raising kids on Christian values, then your intention backfired slightly.
    smoothie
  • @RickeyD I fixed your conservative mom facebook post

    MayCaesar
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    edited December 1
    and who are you to decide if a child which 75 percent of the population are straight should be subjected to growing up with gay parents.  why not naazi parents, or racist parents? gays should not subject an adoptive child to a gay point of view.  let me put it this way: all things being equal, should a 5 year old child be adopted by a gay couple or a straight couple?@MayCaesar
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @maxx Do we have any evidence to suggest that this would happen? I mean, my parents are god-fearing conservative farmers and I am a left-leaning libertarian atheist. If there is evidence to suggest this, I would accept but I don't think that human sexuality is something that is necessarily learned.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2310 Pts
    edited December 1
    @maxx

    Me? I am not deciding anything; I will let the adoption centers and the prospective adopting parents make their own decisions. I am simply saying that I see no problem with homosexual parents.

    What percent of the population parents represent is absolutely irrelevant. My parents were libertarians in Russia, where less than 1% of the entire population even understands what the term means - and I am pretty darn thankful for this, as I defied all statistical odds and grew up to be an independent and successful free thinker, now living in the US and enjoying my life tremendously. This would not have happened had I been born in a typical Russian family; I would likely be stuck in that swamp to this day.
    If someone happens to be the best parent in the world, then they obviously are a statistical outlier. Would you say that thus they should not raise kids? Makes no sense, you realise.

    Nazi parents and racist parents also should have adoption rights, obviously. I may disagree with their parenting methods and they may disagree with mine; this is a free society, and we do not get to force our views on each other.
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    that would depend upon the parents and the age of the child. yes a 2-3 year old can be easily taught sexual orientation. girls are bad, boys are good, so to speak. yes, it is genetic, but at an early age, children can be taught role behavior to the point where the brain simply over-rides genetics.@Happy_Killbot
  • @smoothie ; Children raised by true Christian parents have the strongest foundation for success and the greatest opportunity of living a life of dignity, honor, ethics, morality, patriotism, respect, fulfillment. Teaching a child immorality and disobedience to God's authority by forcing immorality into their daily lives damns that child to life of hopelessness and an Eternity of futility and death. Allowing same-sex advocates of perversion to raise an innocent child is demonic deception and unconscionable child abuse.


    smoothie
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    of course, but a gay couple may force their views upon an innocent child.  again all things being equal, should a 5 year old be adopted by a gay couple or a straight couple?@MayCaesar
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @maxx (In case you haven't noticed) @RickeyD is a fanatic fundamentalist. For him, everything is about religion because it is the primary coping mechanism for him, and one which he has formed a dependent relationship with.

    IMHO, he technically isn't trolling because he legitimately believes what he is telling you and thinks that it is both good rational and strong evidence against the position of this ( or other ) post.
    smoothie
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    edited December 1
    yes  but this is not a religious post and he should go away. the debate is not about religious ideas but about th child growing up in a gay family learning gay views when if adopted by straight parents may lead a genetically different life@Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx

    All things being equal, I personally have no preference here. Growing up with heterosexual parents is probably a bit easier, given the societal trends, but "easier" does not always equal "better". And the difference is very tiny anyway, if any.

    Any couple may force their views upon an innocent child, gay or not. This comes down to how good of the parents they are, not to what gender they are and who they like to be in bed with.
    smoothie
  • @RickeyD I was raised by conservative religious folk and im a libertarian gay atheist I guess they failed LMAO
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    I do believe that you are out of order, as well wrong.  a gay couple adopting a child will change the child; and if you do not believe that the child originally had a 75 % chance of growing up straight instead of learning gay issues from adoptive parents then perhaps you should learn more about the psychological reasons on how parents influence their children. as well, do you believe than a child that genetically has over a 75 percent chance of growing up straight should be forced into a gay home where their parents can force the issue upon the child on how and whom to sexually interact  with?  @MayCaesar
    Plaffelvohfensmoothie
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2310 Pts
    edited December 2
    @maxx

    Any parent or group of parents adopting a child will change that child. That is what parents do, that is what their primary function is: to change the child so the child can go out in the world on their own and thrive there. And different parents have different parenting methods.

    Good parents teach their children independent thinking and self-reliance and help them find their own path in life. Bad parents force their views on their children and try to define their life for them. Whether the parents are homosexual or not has absolutely no impact on the quality of their parenting.

    I do not know the statistics in question, nor do I think it relevant to the topic. Even if 100% children growing up with homosexual parents became homosexual, my opinion would not be affected.

    Lastly, a kid who has reached adulthood is an independent being and can decide for themselves who to sexually interact with. Unless the parents physically bind the kid to a bed and force a kid of the opposite sex on them, there is nothing they can do to control what the kid does. And if they make an issue out of it, then the kid should move out. Controlling parents aren't worth sticking with.
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • @maxx Would you happen to have a study handy, or some useful links? I am interested in reading them.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @smoothie ; The Establishment Clause was enacted to protect religion from government not government from religion...you're grabbing at irrelevant straws. You cannot justify the act of forcing children into a home that is parented by sexual perverts...this is insanity and child abuse.

    Christian parents give a child the greatest opportunity of finding a future that is good, wholesome, productive, fulfilling, purposeful and an Eternity that is joyful in the presence of our Creator. Forcing a child to be inundated with demonically inspired sexual perversion destroys that child and their future and possibly their Eternity. That is child abuse and that is insanity on steroids.


    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 2
    @RickeyD Not irrelevant straws, can you still not read the constitution? It was written that way to be absolutely clear to you religious figureheads but I guess you can't even comprehend it. The constitution is law in this country. Your religion is calling them "sexual perverts", so your position is still not factual, in fact unreliably biased. This is further proven by your challenged source that I doubt you even looked into because it was in a christian mom facebook post. Although I will admit, you have improved much since randomly quoting the bible.


    From source:

    "My replication of Regnerus’s models shows that a simple control for family transitions accounts for most of the negative outcomes for subjects who had “gay fathers” or “lesbian mothers.” The analysis here represents the first empirical support for the argument by early critics (Burroway 2012; Gates 2012; Umberson 2012) that Regnerus’s (2012a) analysis was flawed by his failure to control for childhood family instability"

    "The NFSS data show that custody loss rather than breakups of same-sex couples explain the high rate of family transitions experienced by children who ever lived with same-sex couples. Although the NFSS data do not provide any clues as to why mothers with same-sex partners so often lost custody of their children, the literature on family law documents a strong bias against gay and lesbian parents in judicial custody decisions in the past (Wald 2006). Furthermore, the most recent research on same-sex couples in committed relationships shows that same-sex couples and heterosexual couples in committed relationships are similarly stable (Ross, Gask, and Berrington 2011; Rosenfeld 2014)."



    Plaffelvohfen
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 2
    @RickeyD Christian parents are not any better than atheist parents.


    "It’s also the case that religion can significantly worsen family relationships—if it becomes a contentious issue. A 2008 study in Social Science Research found that religious discord affects intergenerational relations among younger families. When parents value religion more than their teens do, adolescents tend to report poorer relations with parents. This was especially true in families where both parents and their children shared the same religious affiliation, and in families where the parent was an evangelical Protestant. This makes intuitive sense: if parents try to push their child against their will to pray in a certain way or avoid a certain type of food, that’s bound to create tensions–sometimes, irreconcilable ones. Differences in religious belief cause the most harm in situations in which nonreligious kids live in moderately religious households, as opposed to those where moderately religious kids live in very religious households."

    https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Norenzayan_Behaviour_DoesReligionMakePeopleMoral.pdf
    "Parents who decide to raise their kids without a religion shouldn’t worry that they’re dooming them to lives of unbridled debauchery. “Many people assume that religion is the root of morality, and that religious instruction makes moral kids,” says Will Gervais, a psychology professor at the University of Kentucky who studies atheism in the United States. But “our best evidence suggests that moral instincts arise on their own in kids.”Studies have shown that there is no moral difference between children who are raised as religious and those raised secular or non-believing. Moral intuitions arise on their own in children, independently of religious understanding"




    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • I read the study, and it is quite informative, and the methodology is solid. The full text is here:

    http://www.baylorisr.org/wp-content/uploads/Regnerus.pdf

    Nothing in here suggests any form of bias or other types of unfair treatment of data to me. Then again, I am not a sociologist, so I can only judge the study very superficially.

    The author does make it clear, however, that the study has significant constraints:
    There are several things the NFSS is not. The NFSS is not a longitudinal study, and therefore cannot attempt to broach questions of causation. It is a cross-sectional study, and collected data from respondents at only one point in time, when they were between the ages of 18 and 39. It does not evaluate the offspring of gay marriages, since the vast majority of its respondents came of age prior to the legalization of gay marriage in several states. This study cannot answer political questions about same-sex relationships and their legal legitimacy. Nevertheless, social science is a resource that offers insight to political and legal decision-makers, and there have been enough competing claims about ‘‘what the data says’’ about the children of same-sex parents—including legal depositions of social scientists in important cases—that a study with the methodological strengths of this one deserves scholarly attention and scrutiny.

    Seems to be a caveat major enough to be sceptical of it invalidating the results of previous and future multiple studies, virtually all suggesting the opposite result.

    Still, I am happy that such articles are allowed to be published at modern universities' sociology departments. It is important to not descend into ideological dogmatism simply because a certain outcome is morally preferable.

    smoothie
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 2
    @MayCaesar You are right, the study itself is not biased but tons of "pro-family" groups try to spin those results around in their favor and they ignore those significant restraints, hence why I found a counter-study for it lol.
    MayCaesar said:

    Still, I am happy that such articles are allowed to be published at modern universities' sociology departments. It is important to not descend into ideological dogmatism simply because a certain outcome is morally preferable.
    ^^^^^^^^ totally agree with this too
    MayCaesar
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • @smoothie ; The survey did not designate "Christian" parents, just a mom and dad v. sexually perverse parents and the results are evident...you can poo-poo the stats but I would guess they're very conservative...I bet a child raised in a dysfunctional home of sexual perversion is at much greater risk than these stats suggest.


    smoothie
  • RickeyDRickeyD 212 Pts
    edited December 2
    @smoothie ; If two-men or two-women engage in sex, that is sexual perversion, it is nasty, immoral, unnatural, sinful, debauchery and the participants are sexual perverts. This is simply TRUTH!  This is behavior demonstrated by those who have surrendered their life to Satan.






    smoothie
  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 2
    @RickeyD It is not "simply truth" it is an opinion from your religious views which the government does not make laws out of. Also those weird pedophile pictures don't help your argument; I would prefer studies and outside sources instead of your weird propaganda. Until then, there is no debate just you preaching
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • @maxx ; No one is trolling...don't ask the question if you don't desire the truth.


  • @smoothie ; If people require persuasion that forcing a child into a home that is led by sexual perverts is wrong...those people lack wisdom and discernment and are therefore beyond being reasoned with.


  • smoothiesmoothie 149 Pts
    edited December 2
    @RickeyD So your defense for why same-sex adoption is wrong is that "the other side is beyond reason" yet I have given sources and logical reasons for my arguments. I didn't just preach that I am right and you shouldn't question a higher figure, like what you do. Do you wonder why people here don't tend to side with you?
    the guy typing this is a weirdo
  • RickeyDRickeyD 212 Pts
    edited December 2
    @smoothie ; You've done nothing but support perversion and demonic deception. It is either a psychosis resulting in an inability to relate to/acknowledge cause-and-effect in modeling human behavior and the inundation of the immature mind with sexual perversion, pornography, social confusion, debauchery and/or the problem being, you have been given-over to internalize a debased/depraved-mind and you cannot discern evil from good, iniquity from righteousness, deceit from Truth...do you not understand that you espouse EVIL and death for our posterity in your homosexual addiction? The Holy Spirit testifies of you and your demonic persuasion in the World...you should be ashamed but you vomit your perversion without hesitation and like your father, Satan, you desire to destroy the soul of our posterity with your filth.

    It is written about you and those who reject God and God's law...

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.  Romans 1:18-32 (NASB)





    smoothie
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2310 Pts
    edited December 2
    @RickeyD

    Please. Religious prudes secretly obsessed with wild forms of sex have always been my object of fascination. They try so hard to appear pure and innocent, denying the idea of sex for pleasure, but end up talking about sex and sexuality all the time. It is clear that all this suppression of natural human urges does not do them much good.

    People who live in tune with their nature get to enjoy sex, wild if that is their thing, but most do not have to go there because regular sex is sweet enough. But those who vilify human nature and try to appear as pure saints - they always have issues.

    "Do not have premarital sex", "Do not have sex with more that one partner", "Do not watch porn and masturbate", "Do not have homosexual sex", "Do not have group sex", "Do not have sex for any reason other than conception"... What a grey and dull life people must have with all these "do not"-s. And all for a promise from some ancient book that "after death" you are going to enjoy eternal bliss? 
    It is hard for me to believe that human beings can self-sabotage in such a bizarre way, but then I self-sabotage in many ways myself, so I am not the one to judge.
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • DeeDee 1101 Pts
    @maxx

    ***** of course, but a gay couple may force their views upon an innocent child.  

    A couple that are members of the KKK may also do so , a racist couple may also do so ....What is your point exactly that because one unhinged couple may do so one can use this as evidence against gay couples adopting?

    ****again all things being equal, should a 5 year old be adopted by a gay couple or a straight couple?

    They should be adopted by the most suitable couple for the the role without people like you judging them on nothing but their sexuality 
    smoothie
  • DeeDee 1101 Pts
    @maxx

    ***** 
     a gay couple adopting a child will change the child; 

    What do you mean changed in the context of a gay couple? Are you suggesting sexuality wise , other , or both?

    ****and if you do not believe that the child originally had a 75 % chance of growing up straight

    How do you come across this ) 75% and how does being reared by a gay couple change this statistically?

    ****instead of learning gay issues from adoptive parents

    Why do mean “gay issues “? Do you mean as in treating such couples with respect or again you seem to be suggesting issues of sexuality on which you remain evasive why’s that ? Why not just say what you actually want to say?

    ****then perhaps you should learn more about the psychological reasons on how parents influence their children

    Again you will not say what you really want to say are you saying gay couples influence the child’s future sexual persuasion?. 

    ****as well, do you believe than a child that genetically has over a 75 percent chance of growing up straight should be forced into a gay home

    Who “forces” this in the US ? I thought the U S had pretty strict adoption law is this not the case?

    ****where their parents can force the issue upon the child on how and whom to sexually interact  with?

    Again you use the word “force” regarding gay couples you sound exactly like bigots of the past who demonized couples of different race getting married your ancestors would be proud of you 

      
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    you are ignoring and changing my original post. this is not about the morals of gay people, oit is about weather ti is good for the child to be adopted by a gay couple@RickeyD
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    first off, the majority of children grow up straight. second, it does not matter if the couple is authoritive or passive, a young child will be influenced and impressed by the life style they find them-selves in and even if they do not grow up gay, they will adapt to the lifestyle and be strongly affected by the life style, perhaps adversely especially during their school years and will probably be bullied and ridiculed by their peers.  everyone here has seem to have miss the object of my question; the child.  is it good for the child ?  @MayCaesar
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    I really do not post links; however one can easily find both sides of the story by typing in gay couples with adoptive children@Happy_Killbot
  • @maxx The science says that there is no evidence supporting the view that children of homosexual parents have these development difficulties.

    https://www.apa.org/about/policy/parenting

    From the study:

    "Results of social science research have failed to confirm any of these concerns about children of lesbian and gay parents (Patterson, 2000, 2004a; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999). Research suggests that sexual identities (including gender identity, gender-role behavior, and sexual orientation) develop in much the same ways among children of lesbian mothers as they do among children of heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2004a)."

    "Whereas there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children (Patterson, 2000, 2004; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999);"

    Science has thus far overwhelmingly supported the conclusion that homosexual parents are just as good as heterosexual parents.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    this is why I do not post links; it is easy for one to find another link in just the opposite and soon we have links arguing with one another. there would have to be a long long study over many years dealing with many families and different back grounds "and" studying the psychological impacts of the children in the studies as they grow from child into an adult. These studies simply are not there so people make guesses based upon a couple of families in real time. we must be able to study many children over time. I am not sure there has even been one study on one child who was adopted by a gay couple spanning from childhood to adulthood,  complete with the problems they face, the peer pressure, the influence of the lifestyle they enter in over the years and the psychological impact it would have upon the child in later life as he/she attempts to engage with those of the opposite sex and so on. @Happy_Killbot
    Plaffelvohfensmoothie
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 2310 Pts
    edited December 2
    @maxx

    The majority of children also do not grow up millionaires. Does not mean growing up a millionaire is a bad thing.

    Yes, a child will be influenced and impressed by their parents' words and actions no matter what. This is precisely my point: there is no difference between growing up with homosexual and heterosexual parents in this regard.
    What is a "gay lifestyle"? Is there "straight lifestyle" as well? What are the differences, aside from the sexual preference?

    It is not "good" or "bad" for the child. As many have pointed out already, there is nothing that suggests that homosexual parents are somehow inherently different in terms of their ability to raise kids properly, than heterosexual parents. Your question has been answered multiple times by multiple posters, it seems to me.
    smoothie
  • @maxx

    Being gay is as much a lifestyle as being black is a lifestyle...  In this context, it's a loaded term and is fallacious. 
    smoothie
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @maxx The link I provided is a meta analysis of a number of studies that are all old enough that any children who took part in the studies are grown up by now, if there was some notable effect people would be all over it.

    If you are trying to make an argument about cherry picking or deliberately misinterpreting data, I totally agree that you can easily come to a biased conclusion. In this case, I have yet to find a single source advocating for what you are saying.

    For example, there is one study from 2012 that looked at the social differences in the children of lesbian and gay couples compared with straight couples ( i believe it is what @RickeyD provided in an info graphic above ) however you will notice that from the study 69% of the lesbian couples were on welfare vs 17% of straight couples. 

    So the question is: how do we isolate homosexual parents as the causing factor for social differences?

    To give an analogy, lets say we have two beakers. one has water the other has water plus chemical x. However, the first beaker also has 17% kool aid and the second has 69% kool aid. You test the pH and determine chemical x is acidic.

    Would you question that finding? Probably, because the kool aid could be throwing off the results.

    Sometimes with social studies, the results get messy. For example, if you live in a homophobic theocracy the culture and society might make life hard for the children of homosexual parents, and this might show up on the data to "prove" that homosexual parents are bad parents, when it is really showing something else. Any more, homophobic individuals are few because society has largely positive attitudes to LGBTQ members.

    After doing a though search, this is the single argument I can find against it, and it is a rather simple and robust solution to the question you ask:

    Only where society is accepting of the parents and the children they raise is there a positive benefit for the parents to be homosexuals
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • maxxmaxx 172 Pts
    that has little to do if not nothing of my question. do you believe it is good for the child with all things being equal to be adopted by gay couples rather than a straight couple; again all things being otherwise equal; such as income, type of town, same size schools and so on.@Plaffelvohfen
    smoothie
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