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Climate change is real and it’s important. Prove me wrong.
in Earth Science

There are plenty of climate deniers out there. But...
Climate change is real and it is a real problem.
The facts prove this. Several activists such as Greta Thunberg have pointed this out. Now is the time to act.
We_are_accountableGrafix
  1. Live Poll

    Is climate change real?

    10 votes
    1. Yes.
      60.00%
    2. No.
      40.00%
«1



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Arguments

  • Climate change deniers disturb me...

    They want to pretend like nothing is wrong, but how will they react when reality catches up with them?
    DeeZeusAres42CYDdhartaxlJ_dolphin_473AlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 26
    @Happy_Killbot

    This very planet is said to be 4.5 billion years old.

    Can you deny that fact?

    Can you deny that this planets weather cycles, have put the very surface of this planet, through millions of different weather created situations?

    The Freezing that this planet has gone through?

    The droughts that this planet has gone through?

    Throw in some meteor strikes, to add some Freezing, or Scorched earth moments, and some of man can gleam but how much Scientifically created to support the COMPUTER created made up science called climate change?

    Man today, basically understands, the equivalent of a handful of needles,(because of the man made toy called "climate change,") when it comes to the global Haystacks of weathered history that the Earth has experienced.

    That some of "climate change crowd," thinks they know, what they're talking about?

    When some of the humanity on this planet can be decimated by the random acts of a Hurricane, Tornado, Tsunami, Earthquake, or what have you, and man can't do anything about those weather situations, but try to use Computer models in a computer, to help him play catch up, with this planets weathered history?

    Man in reality, has a better understanding about money, illegal drugs, sexual assault, gun violence, and human trafficking, then Humanity as a whole, will ever evolve as a species to develop understanding, about this planets Weather History?

    Unless the science fiction, over a Real Life time machine, becomes a reality, down the road?

    And then Man, can take a ride, and see this planets weathered history, via that time machine? 

    Otherwise, man is but playing a game of slow motion catch up, with a History of Weather, than he can only speculate about up to this point via the current version of Science, that humanity has at its current disposal, right?

    I'm guessing that you're a climate change supporter?

    @Happy_Killbot

    "Climate change deniers disturb me...

    They want to pretend like nothing is wrong, but how will they react when reality catches up with them?"

    @Happy_Killbot

    Are Tsunamis not real?

    Or Earthquakes, or Hurricanes, or Tornadoes not real? 

    The Earth has gone through how many Ice Ages, or Droughts? 

    The above have been happening for billions of years, right?

    So maybe, some of the probable pretenders, are some of the Climate Change scientists themselves?

    Who by using a computer, to create a Climate Change algorithm, to create an artificial science, called Climate Change?
     



    AlofRIGrafix
  • If you want to convince people that it is real, probably shouldnt cite greta thornbug as a reliable source.

    I dont think many are people are direct climate change deniers, they just think that there is that the severity of human interaction is less than stated, the effects arent as bad and arent occuring as fast as predicted (their predictions have often been wrong just look at al gores movie), and the correct way to combat it is not to turn over most of the economy to the government.
    Grafix
  • @TKDB

    Are you a climatologist?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • DeeDee 1707 Pts
    @TKDB

    WTF are you babbling about?
    AlofRI
  • @Happy_Killbot @Dee

    You dont understand... weather, earth billions of years old, tsunamis, earthquakes, tornados. 
    Theyre all real. Am i over your head yet.

    Ices ages, droughts, computer models. Humanity never understand the complexity of weather.

    His argument is decimated by random tornados of information.
    Grafix
  • @MichaelElpers

    It is a common misconception that what the individuals who push climate change policies are after is more power for themselves. Only in highly corrupt countries should this be the case.

    For example, a carbon tax some might think is simply the government taking money and doing what it wants with it, and in deed this would do this if it were mismanaged. However, the proper way to accomplish this would be to take the money collected through a carbon tax and then either invest it into green technologies through subsidies, or to redistribute those funds to everyone in the form of a negative tax or a tax reduction.

    The reason for this is fairly straightforward, first off this tax discourages behavior which produces carbon or wastes energy, effectively reducing the CO2 emissions. This is actually good for businesses because they will now have an incentive to invest in the things that will end up saving them money in the long run, i.e. installing insulation and taking basic conservation policies for their employees.

    Second, the atmosphere is a public resource, for which everyone has equal share and can use without permission or payment. Anyone who converts atmospheric O2 into CO2 is effectively polluting this resource and that means that everyone who relies on it for stable weather has to pay for it, in the form of drought, storm damage, mass migration, and decreased air quality. A carbon tax effectively returns this value to the average citizen by providing compensation for that damage.

    Switching to renewable energy sources will not turn over our economy, in fact it will actually benefit the economy in the long run because solar power is cheaper, more sustainable, and more stable than fossil fuels, with the exception  of natural gas which is made cheap thanks to fracking technology. Even so, renewable energy represents a much longer term power source because fossil fuels are by nature limited in supply, while the sun will not be extinguished for billions of years. The renewable sector is expected to see a huge increase in affordability in the next few decades, so from an economic perspective it will be wiser to make this transition. Consider that installing solar cells onto the roof of your house can reduce your total energy costs or even potentially reverse it entirely giving you a source of income. This kind of mass distribution of the means of production is something that could very well be a reality in the next two decades, and would be better for the average citizen overall.
    CYDdhartaAlofRI
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1232 Pts
    Actually, due to the number of national lockdowns across the globe due to coronavirus outbreak, the climate has been getting a bit better. Another bit of proof that humans are the cause of the current bit of climate change.
    CYDdhartaAlofRIxlJ_dolphin_473Grafix



    I'm on my level!





  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1232 Pts
    Climate change deniers disturb me...

    They want to pretend like nothing is wrong, but how will they react when reality catches up with them?
    @Happy_Killbot I find it mind-boggling that you still have climate change deniers among with many other kinds of deniers such as anti-vaxers, flat earthers, pandemic deniers such as the one happening now, evolution deniers, GMO safety deniers, etc.

    The degree of evidential support surrounding these things I just mentioned is so great that it's insurmountable.
    Happy_KillbotCYDdhartaAlofRIxlJ_dolphin_473



    I'm on my level!





  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 26
    @Happy_Killbot ;


    I'm a realist. 

    I don't fool myself about the weather that exists on this planet.

    And when a crowd of scientists want to conjure up a term like Climate Change from the depths of the of their own collective of laptop computers, via their Climate Change algorithm talk, they are free to verbally chase an algorithm all that they want to, down their own rabbit holes

    And this planet and its weather changes are, going to do what it does, because that's just how it is, to live on the surface of this planet, at our very own risks?


    Yes, or no? 
    ZeusAres42AlofRIxlJ_dolphin_473
  • @TKDB

    So if you are not a climatologist, is it possible that you are unqualified to talk about what is and isn't true with regards to the planet's climate?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 26
    @Happy_Killbot

    Are YOU a climatologist?

    And if not, then good for you.

    And in regards to your question:
    Nope, but being that I've done enough gardening, and provided enough of an infrastructure while taking care of various gardening landscapes to see how the cold and warm weather, affects crops.

    And the crops will either die, or survive, depending on how this planets weather affects them.

    Paying attention to the weather, and caring for plants, while putting food on the table, didn't, and still doesn't require me, having to study up, on what an isolated group of scientists, who want to peddle their "Climate Change" narratives, to whomever is willing to be preached to about their Climate Change messaging?

    They have an algorithm based Science, that they want people to feed on, kind of like the Liberal preachings, that the Liberals want their followers to mentality wise, feed off of, just the same right?

    "So if you are not a climatologist, is it possible that you are unqualified to talk about what is and isn't true with regards to the planet's climate?"

    I've LIVED my experiences, while you have the Climate Change scientists making up their experiences, through their tunnel visioned Climate Change narratives again, based on an Algorithm hatched inside the parts of their computers?


  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @Happy_Killbot

    Why did you ignore the below questions?

    This very planet is said to be 4.5 billion years old.

    Can you deny that fact?

    Can you deny that this planets weather cycles, have put the very surface of this planet, through millions of different weather created situations?

    The Freezing that this planet has gone through?

    The droughts that this planet has gone through?

    Throw in some meteor strikes, to add some Freezing, or Scorched earth moments, and some of man can gleam but how much Scientifically created to support the COMPUTER created made up science called climate change?

    Man today, basically understands, the equivalent of a handful of needles,(because of the man made toy called "climate change,") when it comes to the global Haystacks of weathered history that the Earth has experienced.

    That some of "climate change crowd," thinks they know, what they're talking about?

    When some of the humanity on this planet can be decimated by the random acts of a Hurricane, Tornado, Tsunami, Earthquake, or what have you, and man can't do anything about those weather situations, but try to use Computer models in a computer, to help him play catch up, with this planets weathered history?

    Man in reality, has a better understanding about money, illegal drugs, sexual assault, gun violence, and human trafficking, then Humanity as a whole, will ever evolve as a species to develop understanding, about this planets Weather History?

    Unless the science fiction, over a Real Life time machine, becomes a reality, down the road?

    And then Man, can take a ride, and see this planets weathered history, via that time machine? 

    Otherwise, man is but playing a game of slow motion catch up, with a History of Weather, than he can only speculate about up to this point via the current version of Science, that humanity has at its current disposal, right?

    I'm guessing that you're a climate change supporter?

    @Happy_Killbot

    "Climate change deniers disturb me...

    They want to pretend like nothing is wrong, but how will they react when reality catches up with them?"

    @Happy_Killbot

    Are Tsunamis not real?

    Or Earthquakes, or Hurricanes, or Tornadoes not real? 

    The Earth has gone through how many Ice Ages, or Droughts? 

    The above have been happening for billions of years, right? 

    So maybe, some of the probable pretenders, are some of the Climate Change scientists themselves?

    Who by using a computer, to create a Climate Change algorithm, to create an artificial science, called Climate Change? 
  • @TKDB

    So you know that the Earth's climate has been different in the past.

    So that means you are aware that it could be different today then.

    You know that these changes have been in part due to differences in the Earth's atmosphere.

    So that means you are aware that changes to the Earth's atmosphere can change the climate.

    You know that the burning of fossil fuels at industrial levels releases millions of tons of CO2.

    So that means you are aware that humans can change the Earth's atmosphere.

    All the pieces come together then.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    "It is a common misconception that what the individuals who push climate change policies are after is more power for themselves."

    Can you say that with a straight face, need i mention the green new deal?
    How am i supposed to believe climate change is a big deal when the proponents wont use nuclear power one of the cleanest and most efficient alternatives on the market.  Also while the coasts are supposed to be underwater banks are investing millions and millions of dollars on shore property that supposed to be underwater in ten years.

    Clean natural gas wasnt produced by government funding...the best solutions never are.  We invested so much in solar and wind which are inefficient and cant be stored.

    If global warming becomes an actual issue, the free markets will notice it and put large amounts of money into the solution to prevent them from losing business.
  • NopeNope 366 Pts
    TKDB 
    Scientist use climate data from around the world since the 1880's as well as other evidence like satellite data, ocean composition and bacteria growth to determine the earths mean temperature is increasing (climate change). They also look at air trapped in ice, rock composition, fossil and other sources to project earths past large scale climate patterns. Then they look at possible causes for the shift in temperatures and determine it is highly probable that an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere caused by humans is the primary cause. We can then observe the consequence and projections of climate change to conclude it is most likely bad for humanity.

    Trends in earth climate patterns are easier to predict then local clime patterns. Its much harder to predict where or when a hurricane is going to happen then it is to predict an increase in hurricane frequency.
  • @MichaelElpers

    The green new deal was a travesty. Besides, it is fallacious to assume that just because some greedy idiots do want to use climate change it for personal gain that it must be false. It is both more likely and makes overall more sense that they are simply taking advantage of the situation.

    Natural gas is subsidized. In fact, 80% of  the $20 billion US fossil fuel subsidies go to natural gas.
    https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
    I have of course already stated the obvious personal benefit to installing solar panels on your roof. The storage problem is technologically feasible, and there are many companies which are already working on solutions to it. Our battery technology does lag behind others, but this is something which we will solve soon. Being as I am a strong proponent of nuclear power, I need not make an argument here. Best case scenario, nuclear is used to supplement renewable power as a way to decrease the land usage to a point where little if any additional land must be cleared.

    The markets might not be not fast enough to catch up to the changes in the atmosphere because the effects are exponential, and we are already seeing them. For example, mass migration due to desertification, such as the migration of people from Mexico into the US is a direct result of climate change. If they had the resources in Mexico to survive, they would not need to come to the US.

    The thing is, the markets are reactive rather than pro-active. The massive economic damage that would result from climate change is not something the markets can just "adjust" to, unless by that you mean that the fishing industry dissolves and with it all companies relying on it go with it, including some that you might not expect has a direct link, such as drugs, glue, or protein powder. In addition to the oceans becoming dead, terrestrial life will also become less tenable. Desertification will lead to an overall decrease in the planet's arable land, which will inevitably lead to mass starvation and increased food prices. This will mean that meat will become much more expensive and the economy will phase out those who like their steak. We still rely on the planets ecology for certain resources which will be lost permanently with rapid increases in the planets average temperature.

    Another thing to consider is that the costs of reversing the damage also go up exponentially, that is to say the sooner we implement a fix the more likely it is that that fix will be able to fix the damage. For example, I have already mentioned that widespread destruction of the planet's ecology, and marine life in particular, will not come back. This is technically not true, because it could be possible to clone the animals back into existence if a large enough sample of their DNA were preserved. However, this process is much more expensive both in terms of labor and feasibility than simply not letting them go extinct in the first place. If we would have started a 2% per year decrease in CO2 emissions starting in 2000 climate change would have already be a non issue. Now we need to have more like a 55% decrease per year.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @Nope

    Good for you, look at the Science, that resides between your ears.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 27
    @Happy_Killbot

    You mean you pieced your pro Climate Change rhetoric together, all nice and self sufficiently, didn't you?

    "All the pieces come together then."

    The weather has been changing long before the Climate Change scientists, ever came up with their moniker. 

    "Climate change is real and it’s important. Prove me wrong."

  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    @Happy_Killbot

    Are the two of you going to email the below countries, and verbally reprimand them over their fossil fuel usages, in the light of your pro Climate Change narratives?

    "ChinaChina is by far the world's leading producer of coal, with 46% of the global total in 2018.Jul 14, 2019https://www.forbes.com › 2019/07/14 "


    "The Ten Countries That Dominate World Fossil Fuel Production "

    "More resultsHow many countries rely on fossil fuels?five countriesCurrently, there are at least five countries that depend on fossil fuel for virtually 100% of their respective energy needs. Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Brunei Darussalam are all currently completely dependent on fossil fuels for energy.Apr 25, 2017 "https://www.worldatlas.com › articles

     Fossil Fuel Dependency By Country - WorldAtlas.com "

  • DeeDee 1707 Pts
    @MichaelElpers

    **** You dont understand... weather, earth billions of years old, tsunamis, earthquakes, tornados. 
    Theyre all real. Am i over your head yet.

    What exactly are you trying to say 

    ****Ices ages, droughts, computer models. Humanity never understand the complexity of weather.

    What?

    ****His argument is decimated by random tornados of information.

    You’ve totally lost me 
  • TKDB said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    This very planet is said to be 4.5 billion years old.

    Can you deny that fact?

    Can you deny that this planets weather cycles, have put the very surface of this planet, through millions of different weather created situations?

    The Freezing that this planet has gone through?

    The droughts that this planet has gone through?

    Throw in some meteor strikes, to add some Freezing, or Scorched earth moments, and some of man can gleam but how much Scientifically created to support the COMPUTER created made up science called climate change?

    Man today, basically understands, the equivalent of a handful of needles,(because of the man made toy called "climate change,") when it comes to the global Haystacks of weathered history that the Earth has experienced.

    That some of "climate change crowd," thinks they know, what they're talking about?

    When some of the humanity on this planet can be decimated by the random acts of a Hurricane, Tornado, Tsunami, Earthquake, or what have you, and man can't do anything about those weather situations, but try to use Computer models in a computer, to help him play catch up, with this planets weathered history?

    Man in reality, has a better understanding about money, illegal drugs, sexual assault, gun violence, and human trafficking, then Humanity as a whole, will ever evolve as a species to develop understanding, about this planets Weather History?

    Unless the science fiction, over a Real Life time machine, becomes a reality, down the road?

    And then Man, can take a ride, and see this planets weathered history, via that time machine? 

    Otherwise, man is but playing a game of slow motion catch up, with a History of Weather, than he can only speculate about up to this point via the current version of Science, that humanity has at its current disposal, right?

    I'm guessing that you're a climate change supporter?

    @Happy_Killbot

    "Climate change deniers disturb me...

    They want to pretend like nothing is wrong, but how will they react when reality catches up with them?"

    @Happy_Killbot

    Are Tsunamis not real?

    Or Earthquakes, or Hurricanes, or Tornadoes not real? 

    The Earth has gone through how many Ice Ages, or Droughts? 

    The above have been happening for billions of years, right?

    So maybe, some of the probable pretenders, are some of the Climate Change scientists themselves?

    Who by using a computer, to create a Climate Change algorithm, to create an artificial science, called Climate Change?
     



    No, I cannot deny any of these facts, but this is the first time we can actually correlate human activity with a considerable rise in climate temperature. Sure, we have gone through ice ages and droughts before, but not as a result of human activity. @TKDB
    Dee
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    Dropping Climate Change on it fake ear.

    Was kind of Climate Changes was the planet going through before man artificially invented his fake Science Climate Change Religious rhetoric?

    That fake Science can't speak for the Climate Changes that were going on with the planet, before the fragility of Humanity showed up, can't it at @xlJ_dolphin_473 ?

    Because there's no such thing as a time machine, for the fake Climate Change spin talkers to go back in time with, is there?


    "No, I cannot deny any of these facts, but this is the first time we can actually correlate human activity with a considerable rise in climate temperature."

    "Sure, we have gone through ice ages and droughts before, but not as a result of human activity. @TKDB"





  • xlJ_dolphin_473xlJ_dolphin_473 196 Pts
    edited March 27
    TKDB said:
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    Dropping Climate Change on it fake ear.

    Was kind of Climate Changes was the planet going through before man artificially invented his fake Science Climate Change Religious rhetoric?

    That fake Science can't speak for the Climate Changes that were going on with the planet, before the fragility of Humanity showed up, can't it at @xlJ_dolphin_473 ?

    Because there's no such thing as a time machine, for the fake Climate Change spin talkers to go back in time with, is there?

    "No, I cannot deny any of these facts, but this is the first time we can actually correlate human activity with a considerable rise in climate temperature."

    "Sure, we have gone through ice ages and droughts before, but not as a result of human activity. @TKDB"
    You were the one who said that there have been ice ages and droughts before, also we can measure what the temperature was at those times because we have studied glaciers. Also, please do not leave huge spaces between your sentences. @TKDB
  • DeeDee 1707 Pts
    @TKDB

    **** Was kind of Climate Changes was the planet going through before man artificially invented his fake Science Climate Change Religious rhetoric?

    How is it fake and what has religion got to do with it?

    Why are so many Americans Anti vaccine , Anti Evolution and climate change deniers?
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 27
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    And you can get off my back, about how I express myself.

    I'm a Weather Realist, not a Climate Change Scientist follower. 

    Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Mud Slides, Fire Storms, and Volcanoes have been ravaging this planet for 4.5 billion years, long before the fragility of our species showed up, and man took his first fragile steps on this planet.

    The Truth is, the ever Changing Weather episodes, that have been afflicting this planet for billions of years, are the Kings at the top of our existence pyramid.

    And I wish from a Reality based point of view that the Climate Change scientists, would get over themselves, and give this planets Changing Weather episodes, the respect that it should have, without the gimmicky talk the Climate Change preaching scientists, keep trying to convert people with?

    The weather changes on this planet, have been owning this planet, for billions of years, and that's just the way it is, regardless of what kind of rationale that the Climate Change Scientists want to talk it down with?

    "You were the one who said that there have been ice ages and droughts before, also we can measure what the temperature was at those times because we have studied glaciers. Also, please do not leave huge spaces between your sentences. @TKDB "
    xlJ_dolphin_473AlofRI
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 27
    @Dee

    Why do the foreigners from other countries, like to pose such questions as these, when it comes to the citizens of the United States?

    "Why are so many Americans Anti vaccine , Anti Evolution and climate change deniers?"

    Because the Climate Change ideology, as far as I'm concerned, is an artificial Religion crafted out of artificial Science speak.

    There's the purity of Science itself, (That classic version of Science, that helped to put man on the moon, and has helped man, to physically interact with space exploration for how many decades now?)

    And then there's the artificial science, that the Climate Change scientists created from their segregated think tank, being that they segregated themselves, from the rest of the logical Scientific community, and now the Climate Change Religiosity exists, because of those radical Climate Change thinking scientists?

    Science has its own Truth.

    And the radical Climate Change scientists, have their self created truth.
  • DeeDee 1707 Pts
    @TKDB

    ***** Why do the foreigners from other countries, like to pose such questions as these, when it comes to the citizens of the United States?

    I pose the question only to mostly religious rubes in the U S who wear their ignorance as a badge of pride 

    *****Because the Climate Change ideology, as far as I'm concerned, is an artificial Religion crafted out of artificial Science speak

    Right , so apart from your absurd hill billy views what have you got?.

    ****There's the purity of Science itself, (That classic version of Science, that helped to put man on the moon, and has helped man, to physically interact with space exploration for how many decades now?)

    What are you on about?

    ****And then there's the artificial science, that the Climate Change scientists created from their segregated think tank, being that they segregated themselves, from the rest of the logical Scientific community, and now the Climate Change Religiosity exists, because of those radical Climate Change thinking scientists?

    Logical scientists disagree with your B S 

    ****Science has its own Truth.

    Which is what?

    ****And the radical Climate Change scientists, have their self created truth.

    Yet another crazy claim without evidence as usual 
  • TKDB said:
    @xlJ_dolphin_473

    And you can get off my back, about how I express myself.

    I'm a Weather Realist, not a Climate Change Scientist follower. 

    Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Mud Slides, Fire Storms, and Volcanoes have been ravaging this planet for 4.5 billion years, long before the fragility of our species showed up, and man took his first fragile steps on this planet.

    The Truth is, the ever Changing Weather episodes, that have been afflicting this planet for billions of years, are the Kings at the top of our existence pyramid.

    And I wish from a Reality based point of view that the Climate Change scientists, would get over themselves, and give this planets Changing Weather episodes, the respect that it should have, without the gimmicky talk the Climate Change preaching scientists, keep trying to convert people with?

    The weather changes on this planet, have been owning this planet, for billions of years, and that's just the way it is, regardless of what kind of rationale that the Climate Change Scientists want to talk it down with?

    "You were the one who said that there have been ice ages and droughts before, also we can measure what the temperature was at those times because we have studied glaciers. Also, please do not leave huge spaces between your sentences. @TKDB "
    Sure, the climate has changed in the past just as much as it has been recently, but the key difference here is that this time it is as a result of human activity. It is no coincidence that the climate has started changing just as humans develop industry and discover fossil fuels and start burning huge amounts of them. It is odd that certain people continue to take regular flights, despite the fact that they are known to be detrimental to the environment. After a 2 degrees Celsius warming, an irreversible chain reaction will start that will make the Earth inhospitable. And all because we humans simply did not listen. Is this the future you want to see? Perhaps you will not be around to see it, but would you want to inflict this undesirable future on the future generations? @TKDB
    AlofRI
  • AlofRIAlofRI 552 Pts
    " Only when the last tree has died and the last river is poisoned, and the last fish caught will we realize that we can't eat money."

    The rectum derived edict that climate change is a way for someone to make more money than the petroleum industry has made, and is "made up" for that reason, is actually suffering from accute TDS.
  • The last decade was the hottest on record. Looking at pollution maps, the global lockdowns have REDUCED carbon emissions, which are the leading cause of climate change. In the past, our earth was able to cool itself by taking the naturally occurring carbon in the atmosphere and taking it down with rain, pitting it into our oceans. It can’t do that now as there is too much carbon in the atmosphere to handle. That’s how man made climate change works, and it’s honestly not that hard to prove. 

    I’m a Nordic Skier and if there isn’t any snow to ski on, then I can’t ski. This sport is a big part of my life and I’d kill to keep enough snow around to ski on.
    ZeusAres42
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • NopeNope 366 Pts
    TKDB
    It seems to me like you have been mostly creating accusations. You state your views on climate change scientist but you don't really explain how you have come to these conclusion. You talk about how earths climate always changes but you don't get disagreement their and you don't show how it is relevant to your argument.
    Happy_KillbotDeeZeusAres42
  • @xlJ_dolphin_473

    Do you remember when environmentalists told us that our world was cooling? They called it global cooling and told everyone to address what they called scientific evidence.

    What happened? THEY WERE WRONG!

    For decades these same environmentalists have been screaming that the sky is falling, and anyone who does not agree is a climate denier!

    Spare us all your blind trust in environmentalists. Thankfully, there are intelligent people in this world who understand the facts, not Leftwing hysteria.

    If we allowed environmentalists to run our nation, we would be bankrupted by their extreme hatred for fossil fuels.
    Happy_KillbotTKDBZeusAres42xlJ_dolphin_473
  • At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 28
    @Nope

    The Weather on this planet has been having its way, with this planet, and Humanity as well hasn't it?

    The Weather on this planet, is more REAL, than humanity has ever been to itself, and that reality isn't changing, anytime soon.

    And the Weather, has proven humanity wrong, thousands of times over, hasn't it?

    (Climate change is real and it’s important. Prove me wrong.)


    "It seems to me like you have been mostly creating accusations. You state your views on climate change scientist but you don't really explain how you have come to these conclusion. You talk about how earths climate always changes but you don't get disagreement their and you don't show how it is relevant to your argument."

    @Nope ;
    Who is your favorite Climate Change Scientist?


  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 27
    @AmericanFurryBoy

    What's the matter, mother nature isn't giving you want you want, when it comes to you ski snow?

    Guess what? 

    The Weather on this planet, is the Top of the food chain, when it comes to the fragility of humanity.

    If you have a beef with the Weather, you don't have far to go, to shake your fists at it, do you? 
    AmericanFurryBoy
  • NopeNope 366 Pts
    TKDB
    If your augment is that humans cant affect earths climate you are going to need to elaborate as I see no reason humans can't. Humans can affect earths atmospheric composition. The atmospheric composition dictates aspects of earths climate. If your argument is humans just aren't causing an increase in the earths mean temperature you could explain how you came to such a conclusion.

    -"And the Weather, has proven humanity wrong, thousands of times over, hasn't it?"
    I fail to see how this relates to scientist ability to predict general trends in earths climate.
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @Nope

    My argument is simple:

    The Weather on this planet has been having its way, with this planet, and Humanity as well hasn't it?

    The Weather on this planet, is more REAL, than humanity has ever been to itself, and that reality isn't changing, anytime soon.

    And the Weather, has proven humanity wrong, thousands of times over, hasn't it?

    (Climate change is real and it’s important. Prove me wrong.)

     

  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    @Nope

    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2916/the-atmosphere-tracking-the-ongoing-recovery-of-earths-ozone-hole/

    The Atmosphere: Tracking the Ongoing Recovery of Earth's Ozone Hole

    Sizing Up Humanity's Impacts on Earth's Changing Atmosphere: A Five-Part Series

    By Alan Buis,
    NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory

    Part Three

    "As discussed earlier in this feature series (see Parts One and Two), Earth’s atmosphere is largely able to cleanse itself of pollutants, but there are a few things that humans have produced that are much more long-lived when emitted into the atmosphere, degrading its quality and creating harmful environmental effects.

    One such family of chemical compounds is chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), whose contribution to depleting ozone in Earth’s upper atmosphere has led to large springtime decreases in ozone around Earth’s polar regions, especially over Antarctica, a phenomenon known as the ozone hole that was first reported in 1985. But, as NASA atmospheric scientist Nathaniel Livesey explains, today, thanks to the phase-out of CFCs, Earth’s ozone hole is in recovery. He says the turnaround provides a great example of what humans can do when they work together to solve a global atmospheric problem.

    “Humans produced a lot of CFCs from the 1950s through the early 1990s that were useful for a variety of purposes and widely adopted around the world,” said Livesey, principal investigator for the Microwave Limb Sounder (MLS) instrument on NASA’s Aura satellite at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. The CFCs were added to the atmosphere at the parts per billion level. “But CFCs were also very effective at depleting stratospheric ozone, which protects us from harmful solar ultraviolet radiation, and their use created a hole in Earth’s stratospheric ozone layer. Luckily, we were able to identify the problem in time and come to a worldwide agreement, the Montreal Protocol, which phased out their use.” 

  • @TKDB
    Yes, the earth has the ability to change its atmospheric conditions on its own; h o w e v e r  that doesn’t mean that humans aren’t helping it along a path that neither benefits us, or the other species of this planet.


    xlJ_dolphin_473
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • @xlJ_dolphin_473

    Do you remember when environmentalists told us that our world was cooling? They called it global cooling and told everyone to address what they called scientific evidence.

    What happened? THEY WERE WRONG!

    For decades these same environmentalists have been screaming that the sky is falling, and anyone who does not agree is a climate denier!

    Spare us all your blind trust in environmentalists. Thankfully, there are intelligent people in this world who understand the facts, not Leftwing hysteria.

    If we allowed environmentalists to run our nation, we would be bankrupted by their extreme hatred for fossil fuels.
    Extreme hatred for fossil fuels? We need to prevent use of fossil fuels on this planet, and we better do it fast. After 1.5 degrees Celsius of warming, an irreversible chain reaction will begin that will make our planet inhospitable. It is strange that some people continue to take regular flights, even though they are known to be detrimental to our environment. We need to have an extreme hatred for fossil fuels, or we will never develop an affordable electric vehicle with a decent range. If an affordable electric vehicle with a decent range was on the market, would you buy it? It's a no-brainer. I know no one who would want to inflict an undesirable future on future generations. So yes, it is right that we have an extreme hatred for fossil fuels, or else we will make no environmental progress.

    Scientists never told us that our world was cooling, and if they did, this hypothesis would be disproved immediately.
    Whereas, climate change is a well-understood phenomenon. There is no denying the facts. This graph shows it.

    It is possible to disguise incorrect logic as rational argument, but climate deniers are talking about minute details rather than zooming out to view the bigger picture. 
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 28
    @AmericanFurryBoy

    Take your pro Climate Change complaining up with these countries then??

    "ChinaChina is by far the world's leading producer of coal, with 46% of the global total in 2018.Jul 14, 2019https://www.forbes.com › 2019/07/14 "


    "The Ten Countries That Dominate World Fossil Fuel Production "

    "More resultsHow many countries rely on fossil fuels?five countriesCurrently, there are at least five countries that depend on fossil fuel for virtually 100% of their respective energy needs. Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Brunei Darussalam are all currently completely dependent on fossil fuels for energy.Apr 25, 2017 "https://www.worldatlas.com › articles

     Fossil Fuel Dependency By Country - WorldAtlas.Com " 



    @AmericanFurryBoy

    I'm curious to see what they say to you, in regards to your "small" talk?

    "Yes, the earth has the ability to change its atmospheric conditions on its own; 
    h o w e v e r  that doesn’t mean that humans aren’t helping it along a path that neither benefits us, or the other species of this planet."



  • @xlJ_dolphin_473 ;

    Climate manipulation is fact. Climate change the expression of action made on the fact's given. Stop using fossil fuels, why? Building air scrubbers would have been the wise, prudent, and practical thing to do with all the money spent on research. The scientific fact is we either need to ride a cow or horse not fund a new kind of car. Save energy is a lot like cooking your meats longer after making them lean riding it to work while it also got tougher, it's call multi-tasking, climate manipulation can be our friend that brings change.
    xlJ_dolphin_473
  • @TKDB
    Ok, and? Just because China produces a lot of coal, doesn’t mean we need to buy it. In fact, if we just moved American production back to America, I’m sure we could cut down on the amount of coal we are buying. Also, coal and oil aren’t going to last forever, even if man made climate change didn’t exist, then we should still start using more reliable energy sources today, instead of when fossil fuels run out.
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • TKDBTKDB 538 Pts
    edited March 28
    @AmericanFurryBoy ;

    More Global information for your small talk:

    PEOPLE ALSO ASK

    What produces the most carbon?

    "Deforestation, agriculture and fossil fuel use are the primary sources of CO2. According to the most recent data from the Global Carbon Project 2018, the top five countries that produce the most CO2 are China, U.S., India, Russia, and Japan.Nov 14, 2019 "
    What produces co2 naturally?

    "There are both natural and human sources of carbon dioxide emissions. Natural sources include decomposition, ocean release and respiration. Human sources come from activities like cement production, deforestation as well as the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and natural gas."


    @AmericanFurryBoy

    When are you going to call them out, and shake your pro Climate Change fists at them?

    And make an example of them, thus using them as a makeshift podium for your pro Climate Change messeging?

    China?

    Russia?

    India?

    Japan?

    The United States of America?
     
  • I literally don’t need to call out individual countries. The whole goal is to reduce GLOBAL carbon emissions.
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • GrafixGrafix 230 Pts
    edited March 29

    Twenty-five years ago, climate experts predicted the demise of the Great Lakes.

    Yet 25 years later nothing's changed.   The whole thinking of this prediction was so warped.  Seas rising, lakes falling.  It makes no sense to anyone with half a cranium.  The fact remains that the amount of water on the planet is a constant, whether it be water vapor or liquid.  70% of the planet is covered with water.  If temperatures rise, then more water vaporizes and would reduce water levels.  Increased vapor and temperatures, produces more rain which automatically raises the water levels which fell.  The two are inextricably connected.  You cannot isolate one from the other.  Whichever way it goes, it always self-corrects because it is cyclical.  Once you understand life on this earth, you realize that every thing is either cyclical or of an infinite circle.  This is just more evidence of Intelligence in the design of everything we look at.
       
    The same goes for the dumb claims concerning heat-trapping molecules in the atomosphere.  CO2 again is a constant.  Science has never denied that.  Sure, there are variations within a small scale compared to the grand scale, but they never alter the greater scale.  Carbon dioxide parts per million has been way higher than it currently is today - way higher - and no-one shrivelled up and died.  It's junk science on a pornographic wank.  Heat molecules automatically rise and keep rising until  they cool and release their thermal energy, which escape into space. 

    What these liars are peddling is simply impossible because of, once again, the natural self-correction of the necessary balance in the atmospheric composition.  If it could ever get really out of balance to become life-threatening, it would have occurred by now absent these inherent natural corrections.  The climate is also influenced by sun spot activity.  Modern science has proved that.  We are currently entering a grand solar minimum, which means a minimum of sun spot activity.  If it drops low enough, it causes ice ages, not global warming.  Everything these peddlars of climate change have predicted, and I mean  E V E R Y T H I N G is fake.  What kind of intelect ignores repetitive error when it is persistently wrong?  Only the brain-dead.  The truth lies in my closing paragraphs below the images.  Deny these truths if you will, but no-one can and that's the REAL story.




    The amount of private money (let alone Gubment money) chasing AGW is too tempting and obvious to ignore.  It's a corporate money tree. Truth-telling, logic and intellectual honesty don’t apply in the world of venture capital with opportunity to invest in potential profits from deals for turbines, PV systems, carbon sequestration systems, the solar industry, bio-fuels, consulting fees and legal fees, etc

    Climate Change Adaptation and Resilience Services Markets 2019

    Environmental Business International quoted the Climate Change Business Journal estimates for the United States climate adaptation and resilience services market at $650 million in 2018. Growth has been in the double digits and the forecast is for that rate to continue in the short term at 12-15% per year to at least 2022.  Climate Adaptation & Resilience now has its own market, is just one of nine segments in the Climate Change Industry and at $1.7 billion, also includes the segment known as the Disaster Services and Climate Adaptation Equipment & Systems, but excludes construction or disaster response contracting, both of which are sure to push the figure in excess of the $1.7 billion total as a dynamic market starts to take shape.

    Estimates published by the Climate Change Business Journal in 2015 already put the total size of the industry at $1.5 trillion a year, or $4 billion a day, equivalent to the size of the global online retail market. The figure includes carbon markets, carbon consulting, biofuels, carbon sequestration, renewable technologies, eco buildings and hybrid cars.

    The consultuncy sector alone in the climate change market is now worth two billion.
    Happy_KillbotZeusAres42
    The further back we look, the greater forward insight we can have. History speaks.
  • This is a response to Grafix but he isn't going to read it, so there is no point in tagging him.

    The title of the article does not correlate with the content of the article cited. It does not say that the Great lakes would "Demise" which is a vague and mostly meaningless term, however the level of the Great lakes has gone through a natural cycle and new data suggests that the levels may reach record highs in the next decade. It would be fallacious to assume that because old data was inaccurate that all the data is. Consider that the super computers they were using 25 years ago had less processing power than the average laptop today.

    Calculating ocean level is not a simple science, in fact it is one of the most insanely complex things to calculate and even harder to predict, with thousands of factors having to be considered in any one area just to calculate what current levels are expected to be, and many times that to extrapolate into the future. It is not as simple as just assuming that all the water is going to be the same and should stay the same like a full bathtub, or simply extrapolating based on increased water vapor in the atmosphere.

    Consider New York city, where sea level rise is significantly above the total average sea level rise. This has many factors, such as glacial ice from Greenland creating an influx of new water, natural currents moving up the Easter shore (think about it like spraying a hose under water into the side of a bucket), and other things you might not consider despite being obvious, like all the building compressing the soil and lowering the land. This is just scratching the surface of all the things to consider here for just one location.

    The glacial ice that is currently on land melting is what would result in sea level rise. This is an ongoing process that results from global warming due to green house gas emissions, of which water vapor happens to be the most prevalent. If temperatures rise, it could result in increased water vapor in the air further trapping in heat and further raising temperatures. The CO2 levels are in fact rising due to the combustion of fossil fuels, and other human activities, such as producing cement. They are not constant as you wrongly suggest and the data proves this.



    The problem with your assertion that CO2 levels were higher in the past is that the change here is very rapid while in the past it took millions of years for the changes to occur. This means that life will not have adequate time to adapt to the changes and will go extinct. Massive damage to the planets ecology will result in mass starvation and with it all the nasty things that come with it, such as drought, famine, and mass migration.

    I would like to call out this claim to show just how little you know about science and everything really in general:
    Heat automatically rises and keeps rising until  it either cools or escapes into space
    Heat does not "rise" rather things which are hot expand and therefore become less dense taking up less volume than before. This lower density means that they will float on top of more dense things. When we say "Heat" we are not talking about a physical substance, we are talking about the thermal energy inside molecules which causes them to vibrate and release low energy photons, or packets of infrared light. These photons can and do radiate into space as a result of entropy rising, which is what you mean to say.

    In conclusion, the phrase "Heat rises" is for grade school children, and a more accurate phrase should be "Density sinks"

    It is objectively false that the brightness of the sun is the sole cause of global warming due to the lack of correlation between temperature and solar radiation received by earth:
    Sun  climate moving in opposite directions

    If this theory was correct, the earth should have stopped warming, but the reality is that temperature continue to rise.

    Now, I know that by now Grafix would have stopped reading any of this because he must deny facts and doesn't read other people's arguments anyways and instead just pretends like he knows what he is saying and will deny everything he disagrees with. However, it is objectively true that temperatures are rising and it seems that this is due to human activities, and it will result in massive ecological damage which is already observable in nature, so I don't care what he says except to show everyone else where he is wrong.

    I would also like to note that what is claimed to be an expenditure on the economy by Climate change adaptation and resiliency markets is not a boon on the economy, but rather is a source of greater prosperity because it provides more jobs and will ultimately make the economy stronger in the long run, by preserving natural resources, providing jobs, and reducing overall consumption. If you are looking for a good long term investment, investing in these technologies is likely to yield long term returns.

    This being said, the climate change deniers spend millions on lobbying and denial campaigns that have no other purpose than to manipulate those susceptible to misinformation, such as Grafix. These sectors provide no tangible benefit to the economy nor do they provide many jobs. It is unlikely that anything fruitful can come from this as it is essentially throwing money down the toilet.

    Meet the Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement  Smart News
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation, Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root and developed into the human race, who conquered fire, built societies and developed technology .
    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • GrafixGrafix 230 Pts
    edited March 29
    @Happy_Killbot - HA HA Happy HA HA.  I know one thing for sure, you'll never watch the video below, or if you do you'll watch only a small section, grabbing soundbytes out of context and twisting them into pretzels, otherwise completely ignore its content and throw up some other red herring, which is your wont.  Even though to understand the complexity of the climate argument it is necessary to watch the entire video because it addresses every one of the issues regarding the debate between deniers and bed-wetting climateers, most in here will not do so, including you.  Straight away you twist my argument into a denial of climatic changes.  I don't, though.

    The fact that one of these two scientists is the world's leader in this field won't make a jot of difference to you either. I've already established very decisively, that you're not interested in factual science.  These two eminent scientist back me on that, in a very nice way, accusing climate change scientists of being focused on but one thing, delivering a misleading message, the message that AGW and climate change are anthropologically induced, even though we have no evidence of that.   The public gets bogged down in arguing over whether climate change is happening, yet deniers have NEVER denied that it is and neither do i.  I just say what these two say, that understanding the causes is extremely complex and certainly not due to a single element, such as CO2.  They also explain how temperatures are wrongly applied.  Here's the video.  I repeat, it is necessary to watch all of it.


    Happy_Killbot
    The further back we look, the greater forward insight we can have. History speaks.
  • GrafixGrafix 230 Pts
    edited March 29
    @Happy_Killbot - Now I'll pull apart those parts of your response which deserve scrutiny.  You wrote ....
    The glacial ice that is currently on land melting is what would result in sea level rise. This is an ongoing process that results from global warming due to green house gas emissions, of which water vapor happens to be the most prevalent. If temperatures rise, it could result in increased water vapor in the air further trapping in heat and further raising temperatures. The CO2 levels are in fact rising due to the combustion of fossil fuels, and other human activities, such as producing cement. They are not constant as you wrongly suggest and the data proves this.

    Already you leap immediately into the flawed logic, the logical fallacy.   You don't even debate whether the cause of the ice caps melting is an increase in CO2 levels.  You just state it as a fact, ignoring the real FACT - that there's no evidence anywhere which proves that.   Are you aware that there were huge expanses of polar regions with no ice caps, instead expansive plains of green grass?   Same goes for Greenland, once plains of green grass.  How come the planet didn't become a hard-boiled egg, then with CO2 levels way higher than now?  Vegetation is currently starved of CO2 compared with that era, although CO2 is a constant.  You misunderstand this.  NEXT ...

    The problem with your assertion that CO2 levels were higher in the past is that the change here is very rapid while in the past it took millions of years for the changes to occur. This means that life will not have adequate time to adapt to the changes and will go extinct. Massive damage to the planets ecology will result in mass starvation and with it all the nasty things that come with it, such as drought, famine, and mass migration.

    As these scientists say, the rate of fluctuations in CO2, whether rapid or slow, isn't reflected in climatic responses. It's not "sensitive" to it, but rather insensitive and is not of any concern therefore.   They also say, the blaming of every bush fire, every tornado, every drought, every you name it on climate change is just wrong messaging.  Most bush fires are caused by people.  Few are by natural causes.  The massive razing of thousands of hectares in both California and Australia are lied about by complicit media, complicit in the fake messaging, now dubbed the "fire" season - part of the propagandist language - to indellibly inculcate in the brains of the public that climate change is the big bad monster and we the people are to blame.  Yeah right. SOME people are - those who light the fires ea. year together with those who hype the message.  Climate change isn't to blame.

    Heat does not "rise" rather things which are hot expand and therefore become less dense taking up less volume than before. This lower density means that they will float on top of more dense things. When we say "Heat" we are not talking about a physical substance, we are talking about the thermal energy inside molecules which causes them to vibrate and release low energy photons, or packets of infrared light. These photons can and do radiate into space as a result of entropy rising, which is what you mean to say.

    That's correct and due to that lower density the heat-carrying molecules are lighter so keep rising until they release the energy which escapes through the Ionosphere into space.  If the energy did not escape into space in this way, regularly self-correcting and re-adjusting thermal energy levels, solar radiation would have fried the planet to a crisp eons ago and that's the point, the point which you chose to ignore and instead pettifog about.  Heat (radiated energy) from the sun replaces the heat, (radiated energy) from the Earth that gets lost to space.  It's self-correcting.  The warmer it gets the more that is lost to space.  It's the same with clouds.  The warmer the atomosphere, the more the clouds rise.  That cools them and they dump their water - deliberately cyclical and therefore keeps the balance - expressed in layman's terms for everyone to understand it, yet factual.

    Who makes what from what in terms of $$$ in other industries is irrelevant.  The fact remains that the Climate Change industry is massive and keeps a whole heap of bods employed, in particular a huge bunch of lying academics in lecture halls telling porkies to keep their jobs.  Your line of argument is two wrongs make a right.   Sorry, dude.  They just don't.  Arguing with fairy floss.  Breath on it and it melts from my thermal energy.  LOL!.


    SAVE THE PLANET -- DON'T BURP !

    .
    Happy_Killbot
    The further back we look, the greater forward insight we can have. History speaks.
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