How Good Are Americans?

JoeKerr

@Swolliw ;
And so you should be sorry. Consider yourself well and truly chastised for having the temerity to associate guns with violence in America. You really do need to think more before you post. 
I am willing to forgive you this time, but don't let it happen again!

CYDdharta

Since you're demonstrating the proper level of contrition, I'll let it slide, this time.  Don't let it happen again.

MayCaesar

What does someone owning or not owning a firearm have to do with them being or not being a good person? Yes, some people who own firearms use them for violent, nefarious purposes. Some people who own kitchen knives do the same with them. I would not judge the goodness of a people by the fraction of those of them who own kitchen knives, however.

Of all the attempts to pick on Americans I have seen, this has to be one of the clumsiest ones.

Swolliw

@MayCaesar @JoeKerr @CYDharta.

Of all the attempts to pick on Americans I have seen, this has to be one of the clumsiest ones.

Kitchen knives are made for slicing food, they are not made for killing. Guns are designed and made for one purpose; killing. So, your argument is more than clumsy, it is completely redundant. The topic is a continuation from the topic I posted.....How Violent Are Americans: https://debateisland.com/discussion/8153/how-violent-are-americans

In that topic and for this topic I fully back up and justify my stance as follows:

• Only a dozen of the USA’s 50 states require permits to purchase a gun
• 19,379 gun violence deaths were recorded in the US in 2020
• 612 mass shootings happened in 2020
• America’s gun suicide rate is ten times higher than many European countries
• The USA sees 100 times more firearm-related deaths per 100,000 people compared to Germany
• There are 316 people shot in America every day
• 11 US presidents have been victims of an attempted assassination involving firearms
• More than 75% of first and second graders know where their parents keep firearms

Guns per 100 head of population:

1. United States - 120.5
   
2. Falkland Islands - 62.1
3. Yemen - 52.8
4. New Caledonia - 42.5
5. Serbia - 39.1 (tie)
6. Montenegro - 39.1 (tie)
7. Uruguay - 34.7 (tie)
8. Canada - 34.7 (tie)
9. Cyprus - 34
10. Finland - 32.4

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AB92/production/_124122934_gun_related_crimes_640-2x-nc_updated.png

Yes, some people who own firearms use them for violent, nefarious purposes.

You answered no question; you made the "answer" up in order to make a fallacious point; very low-rent indeed. The fact is that all people who own firearms keep them for violent, nefarious purposes.

The properly tabled, irrefutable evidence I supplied correctly validates my statement......."America is an extremely violent, homicidal country fueled by out of control gun use and rivalled by no other country on earth.".

You, nor Bill and Ben above, have come nowhere near countering the argument which stands and which clearly, but sadly exemplifies the commonly held complaint held universally that Americans have a poor attitude and being, gung-ho, gun-toting, loud-mouthed, ignorant, gum-chewing ruffians who think they own the world. I'm not saying that, the facts speak for themselves.

CYDdharta

@Swolliw,,,so this knife that was designed specifically for trench warfare was made for slicing food;



and this Olympic skeet shotgun was designed for killing?

John_C_87

@Swolliw
Kitchen knives are made for slicing food, they are not made for killing.
Tell that to the chicken and the lamb the good news from America is the cow gets the hammer....
How Violent Are Americans

Do you understand your statistic are not judging violence rather honor? A person makes a choice of uses a gun and not hiding the crime of lethal force, unless additional planning occurs before or after the shooting, and the most common way to hide a gun murder is by staging it as a suicide. This process of staged suicide goes for all murders that take place in every and all nations as a united state of law. So, in whole truth statistically when you claim a nation is less violent than others because of acts of any murder in the world the suicide rate must be added to the list of crimes. That is unless specific action had been taken as a constitutional right to protect statistical analysis, murder is in fact a human suicide and the victim is an unprosecuted and accused criminal. All suicides must be proven as first-degree murder in a court of law, with a suspected killer and proven motive established and not a just ruling of suicide by law enforcement in general without trial. Is this information available for public scrutiny by the nation you are representing?

You answered no question; you made the "answer" up in order to make a fallacious point; very low-rent indeed. The fact is that all people who own firearms keep them for violent, nefarious purposes. No, in Europe as in America all people who keep fire arms for for violent and nefarious purpose remove serial numbers and keep the gun baral on the gun clean of barroling. This does not mean guns made that way consitute they are done so for the nefarious reason or purpose.

For the record also the sale and then use of non-prescribed narcotic, said to be legal or not constitutes the same as a active shooting...by any person. The investigative intelligence displayed here for discovering whole truth from simple truth is quite prejudice SwoIIiw. In America as well as many nations globally, it is a greater constitutional preservation, and defense to have legislators begin the day by being sworn into work by holding them to providing trueht and whole truth when writing law. This process can come before or after any respective pledge of allegiance to any particular nation takes place.

How violant are American's

Ask the Ukraine, we are as violent as what must become necessary to restor a level of liberty when provoked to give up the use of constitutional courts of law...Every constitutional address as a united state out of the mouth or when written by a person, for a person seeking the liberty to take, should start with a price that the person should pay in restitution upon approval of removal for the attaining of private property held by others. Not a aliby to simple excuse any court argument...

The cost to take this liberty now underway is $12,000.00 per firearm collected and this price will go up quickly for several reasons one as the cost of insurance is a government added expense which describes additional spending form to the property owner.

JoeKerr

@Swolliw

Would like to think that you realized my post was entirely tongue in cheek!

John_C_87

The 1st Amerndment does not cover this scope of this idea of debate or conversation as we are making an exected expression on a iteam of private property which cost money to a person. Unless we are prepared to place in writting that theft is the more perfect state of the union with law and whole truth. I am not, are you?
I did say however if force to have this talk on any political level it will begin at the minimal cost of $12,000.00 per American Fire-arm asked to be serendered. I also understand it may not be enough in all cases as a united state of law.

John_C_87

Sorry, executed the people may not want to buy a vowel in this matter.  Amendment, item, writing, surrendered, here my corrections in grammar are performed like the constitutional rights taught at many levels of education...broken.

MayCaesar

@Swolliw

First, it is absolutely false that everyone who owns a gun uses it or plans on using it for violence or nefarious purposes. I know quite a few people in person who own guns; most use them for recreational purposes such as a shooting range practice, and several use them for hunting; a couple keeps them for self-defense and, obviously, hope that they will never have to use them. None of these make one a bad person.

Second, the fact that the number of gun violence incidents in the US is higher than in some European countries does not imply that Americans are not good people. The number of those incidents in the US is still negligible compared to the entire population; at best, your statistics suggests that the tiny minority of Americans that are prone to violence is bigger than its European counterpart, saying absolutely nothing about all the other Americans and all the other Europeans, and all the other people on Earth. For that matter, a goodness of an individual certainly cannot be judged solely based on such a narrow aspect of their personality as their likelihood of getting into a gun shooting incident.

Third, America is not rivaled by any other country on Earth in this respect? Buddy, have you ever been anywhere in the Sub-Saharan Africa, or in Central America, or in Russia, or on the Middle East, or in the South-Eastern Europe even, or even in any of the most of the US cities where gun violence is nearly non-existent? You look at a few bad neighborhoods in Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, NYC, et cetera and judge the violence of the whole population by what is happening in those infamous centers of violence (majorly caused by the kind of politicians you would like to see running the country).

Of all the problems this country has, “evil violent people” is somewhere near the bottom of the list sorted in order of importance and influence on the average American’s life.

John_C_87

JoeKerr said:

@Swolliw

Would like to think that you realized my post was entirely tongue in cheek!

And so you should be sorry. Consider yourself well and truly chastised for having the temerity to associate guns with violence in America. You really do need to think more before you post. 
I am willing to forgive you this time, but don't let it happen again!

It’s the use of a coach with lie; any pity should be made on facts when sending people and children out to steal and threaten to steal any firearm as a person’s personal property.  It calls for an immediate relief of command as an irresponsible order of a superior gentleman and officer. This without the common defense of an offer to pay the cost already wrongfully imposed on them, the current cost of a firearm buy out is about $12,000 dollars a firearm. “In order to form” the more perfect union are the first requirements of self-evident truth in American Constitution. Pease explain how sending American children and people out to threaten to take away a person’s personal property by illegal use of a law which is perjury and punishment without conviction of crime.  

Many people may own or operate a firearm outside the conditions set within and/or by the United States of America’s Constitutional union. This however does not relieve legislators, lawyers, Armed Service Personnel from the obligation of applying a deposit on what they are displaying a superior act of constitutional state of the union in relationship to firearms. That superior state of the union challenging owners of a piece of property as a united states joined with those who used the same property in the pursuits of a crime. Instead of bearing the cost of holding first , then understanding clearly by self-evident truth the crime was knowingly committed by other…

John_C_87

Pease explain how sending American children and people out to threaten to take away a person’s personal property by illegal use of a law which is perjury and punishment without conviction of crime.  Is the most perfect state of the union that could be made?

 

Please, explain the commanders of such a foul, malice, and reckless orders...as perfect.... I will wait.

Swolliw

@CYDdharta so this knife that was designed specifically for trench warfare was made for slicing food;No, but then the (absurd, non-)argument from Mad Caeser was that, specifically, kitchen knives were made for killing.And, of course an Olympic skeet shotgun (or any shotgun) is made for killing. Similarly a bow and arrow are designed and made for killing. The fact that some people make a sport out of deadly weapons is a bit ironical to say the least since all the competitors are doing is showing off lethal weapons to the world as if using them is a sport?? And of course we know how deadly accurate and proficient the Olympic shooters are. So, naturally, when their sporting careers are at an ebb, they can spend heaps of time and make heaps of money instructing normal, peace-loving, caring Americans how to blow the brains out of each other. How delightfully sporting.@MayCaesar

Swolliw

@MayCaesar First, it is absolutely false that everyone who owns a gun uses it or plans on using it for violence or nefarious purposes. 

Derrr, like so what? Is this another one of your answers to a question that was never posed nor insinuated in the first place? My point is that all Americans should take ownership of what America, as a collective has become and how it is (justifiably) seen by the rest of the world....the old "well I'm not violent and it's only a minority that are" excuse has well and truly past its use-by date. The award for more guns than there are people and the highest ratio of gun crimes overwhelmingly (putting it mildly) goes to.....wait for it......America. Instead of making poor excuses and getting angry and denialist towards anybody who dares raise the issue, it might be more constructive for Americans (as a collective) to finally spit out the gum, look at themselves and say, "okay, we do have a problem, and it is getting increasingly bigger every year; what are we going to do about it?"

Of all the problems this country has, “evil violent people” is somewhere near the bottom of the list sorted in order of importance and influence on the average American’s life.

That's bleedimg obvious.

MayCaesar

@Swolliw

You made an argument based on a false assumption, and I pointed out the falsehood of that assumption, thereby invalidating your argument. Now you are making a different point, completely unrelated to the question of how good Americans are - which is what this thread was about.

As for your new point, I do not know who "we" are, but I do not associate myself with people based on the geographical location alone. I do not need to take ownership of what any country or society has become, I can just accept it as a fact and move on. And I do not see gun violence as a serious issue in the US, so it is certainly not something I care to do something about.

CYDdharta

Swolliw said:

@CYDdharta so this knife that was designed specifically for trench warfare was made for slicing food;No, but then the (absurd, non-)argument from Mad Caeser was that, specifically, kitchen knives were made for killing.And, of course an Olympic skeet shotgun (or any shotgun) is made for killing. Similarly a bow and arrow are designed and made for killing. The fact that some people make a sport out of deadly weapons is a bit ironical to say the least since all the competitors are doing is showing off lethal weapons to the world as if using them is a sport?? And of course we know how deadly accurate and proficient the Olympic shooters are. So, naturally, when their sporting careers are at an ebb, they can spend heaps of time and make heaps of money instructing normal, peace-loving, caring Americans how to blow the brains out of each other. How delightfully sporting.@MayCaesar

More people have been killed with knives than have ever been killed with Olympic skeet shotguns.  More specifically, more people have been killed with kitchen knives than have ever been killed with Olympic skeet shotguns.  Even more specifically, more people have been killed with kitchen knives IN YOUR COUNTY than have ever been killed with Olympic skeet shotguns.  If Olympic skeet shotguns are designed to kill, why aren't they ever used to kill anything?  

Olympic shooters are certainly quite accurate at their chosen sport, but they don't kill people.  It seems you've never watched Olympic sports, but *spoiler alert* - no one is killed in the events.

Barnardot

So people use inanimate objects in sports and those inanimate objects can’t kill any one because they are inanimate and it’s only people who kill right. @CYDdharta

CYDdharta

@Barnardot

Correct

Swolliw

@CYDdharta

More people have been killed with knives than have ever been killed with Olympic skeet shotguns.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Fact: There are more guns than people in America.

Fact: In 2020, 79% of all homicides in the USA were gun-related killings

Fact: In 2020, 10% of all homicides in the USA we knife-related killings

Fact: In 2020, 4% of all homicides in the UK were gun-related killings

Fact: In 2020, 37% of all homicides in Canada were gun-related killings

Fact: In 2020, 13% of all homicides in the Australia were gun-related killings

Fact: The gun homicide rate in US cities is likely to have increased by 35 to 40 percent from 2019 to 2020

Fact: Anyone who refuses to believe that gun violence in America is out of control and continually rising at an epidemic rate and who also gets figures from extremist sources is both stu-pid and ignorant.

CYDdharta

@Swolliw

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Fact:  Once again, the US has neither the most violent crime nor the most crime committed with guns.  

Fact:  Homicides in the US had been declining steadily since the early 90s (with the exception of a couple bumps in 9/11/2001 and BLM violence in 2015 and 2016) until 2020.  

Fact:  The homicide rate is about half of what it was in the early 90s in spite of a doubling of the number of privately owned firearms.

Fact:  Anyone who believes the FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics are extremist sources is both stu-pid and ignorant.

Barnardot

I reckon that red necks are very bad but man your make them look like Peter pans like you just say things just to be totally opposite. @CYDdharta

CYDdharta

@Barnardot

Child, you would know more about red necks than anyone, just ask your daddy (if he still lives in the po white trash trailer you call home).  Working on the line at a chicken processing plant isn't exactly an example of high class living.

Bogan

Regardless of whether kitchen knives wee made for killing humans or not, in Australia, a kitchen knife is the most common murder weapon.

Barnardot

Working on the line at a chicken processing plant isn't exactly an example of high class living.@CYDdharta

See what I mean that red necks are so bigheaded that they put people down and have you been to chicken factories I bet not. We do shifts and over time and get paid heaps and any way I don’t knock off chickens any more because I do the fork lift and organizing now so I’m not like the immigrants who do all the gutting so they are the real low class. You just refuse to know.

CYDdharta

@Barnardot

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OK,OK, your daddy isn't a white trash red neck since he drives a forklift at a chicken processing plant.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

CYDdharta

@Barnardot

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OK,OK, your daddy isn't a white tra-sh red neck since he drives a forklift at a chicken processing plant.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Barnardot

He's dead and he wasn't a bigot, dum head like you either.@CYDdharta

Barnardot

He's dead and he wasn't a bigot, head like you either.@CYDdharta

CYDdharta

@Barnardot

He isn't really dead, he just ran off (no surprise there).  Your mommy is lying to you.