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panpsychism

Debate Information

no. i am not talking about that, nor am i saying the universe has awareness. Science can not exactly explain where consciousness comes from. Somehow the elementary particles that make up all matter produces it. The universe itself is made up of these particles. The theory states therfore is that just like time and gravity, consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the universe itself. All matter interacts with this field giving awareness to life forms with brains. Other matter such as rocks and trees and so on has this consciousness as well, just like gravity interacts with them. Consciousness is a form of energy and just like time, it is everywhere. It has been said that looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the announcer in the radio. I am not stating that i believe in this theory, however elementary particles make up everything and these particles fill the universe. So the theory states that consciousness is a field of energy that pervades the universe, including all matter; where certain life forms interact with it. what do you think; explain.
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  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    i never said time was energy, i said like time this form of energy is everywhere. at death, consciousness does not leave the brain; the brain ceases to function and can no longer use consciousness. consciousness itself does not go anywhere. It still occupies the space where the matter was. Do you know anything of quantum physics? elementary particles make up all matter, including the brain. They make up the cells. they make up the neurons that firing. The brain is a self contained biological computer; and with out input, has no consciousness of its own. @Aaron_The_Coward
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    first i said it was a theory. As well energy itself is throughout the universe because elementary particles exist even in the deepest recesses of space. These particles make up everything in the brain. I am sure you agree with that. If it were not be of these particles, our brain would not function. The neurons would not fire. perhaps you would like to explain where consciousness is in the brain. Consciousness and Laws of Physics-full (pitt.edu)
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Another load of absolute claptrap from Maxx , read this quote it's a " beauty "......

     ***Other matter such as rocks and trees and so on has this consciousness***

    Rocks have consciousness???????

    Seriously?
    Aaron_The_Coward
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    i said consciousness ipervades the universe just like time and gravity and interacts with all matter. rocks do not have a brain so can not use consciousness. as well it is apparent you did not read my replies to the other individual. particles make up the brain. at a quantum level, these particles produce everything; these particles are everywhere in the universe. instead of simply saying it is a load of crap, why dont you actually attempt to debate the issue? How does the brain produce consciousness? Where exactly is it in the brain? how about reading a link? at the beginning i said it was a theory. I never claimed it was true. i am simply unlike you attempting to debate the issue. Quantum Approaches to Consciousness (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) @Dee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    @maxx


    Stop.deflecting , are you denying you said this ........


     ***Other matter such as rocks and trees and so on has this consciousness***


    In your own words you've stated rocks have consiouness right?

    Watch Maxx do his usual by denying his own words

    Aaron_The_Coward
  • @maxx
    How is time everywhere?

    I have literally already had to deceive some participants in debate of what makes time special by use of deception. This does not mean they would fully understand how or why time is everywhere throughout space, but space is not synchronized with time everywhere.  Proving time is everywhere by exploiting a key element of mathematics which was located in the measurement of time and removed is not hard to do. The method of measurement was changed only to suit computer programming is the type of numbers used in time managment of scale. Time is throughout the known universe because the geometrical shape of a circle is throughout the universe and there is legitimate reason why a circle is mathematically governed by natural numbers. 

    Laws of physics are suported by flawed mathmatic principles in types of calcuslus and some forms of algabra, space-time one of them.

    Though, I have to say maxx the elements that make up contiousness is a valid piont in the scope of A.I. touche'

  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    i am not going to run in circles with you dee. either debate or leave.. maxx said:
    no. i am not talking about that, nor am i saying the universe has awareness. Science can not exactly explain where consciousness comes from. Somehow the elementary particles that make up all matter produces it. The universe itself is made up of these particles. The theory states therfore is that just like time and gravity, consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the universe itself. All matter interacts with this field giving awareness to life forms with brains. Other matter such as rocks and trees and so on has this consciousness as well, just like gravity interacts with them. Consciousness is a form of energy and just like time, it is everywhere. It has been said that looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the announcer in the radio. I am not stating that i believe in this theory, however elementary particles make up everything and these particles fill the universe. So the theory states that consciousness is a field of energy that pervades the universe, including all matter; where certain life forms interact with it. what do you think; explain.
    now read it closer. i said all matter has consciousness but only life froms with brains can use it. If you can show me how the brain produces consciousness where it is in the brain, and how it exists with out the elementary particles that are responsible for creating the firing of the neurons, then do so. It is apparent you din not read the link i sent you. Now stop nit picking at bits and pieces of my OP and read it as a whole and debate it as a whole. Other wise ill wait for someone else to doso.
    @Dee
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    einstein showed that time and space are linked. other than that the debate is not about time. @John_C_87
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    showing your colors again roberto. i never said rocks had awareness, now did i ? i said consciousness interacts with all matter, now did i not? i also said it took matter and certain life forms to use it, did i not? now either debate or leave. @Aaron_The_Coward
  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    @Aaron_The_Coward

    It looks like that's what you said, because otherwise your comparison doesn't make much sense. Energy isn't everywhere. Most of space is a vacuum. There's the cosmic background radiation, but that's extremely faint. Time is everywhere because it's literally a dimension of the universe.

    No, Time is everywhere in the universe because it is proportional to a circle...not because it holds the universe in multiple dimensions well beyond just three or four.
    Whereas Maxx makes a connection that is with Gravity as a law of motion(?) thought I is unclear if this connection is intentional. If you would like to go into more detail on how we can establish variation in Gravity in proportional relationship to geometric shape of a circle, I’m game.

    So we are back to E ≈ Mc^2

    LMAO


  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    @maxx

    Keep digging Maxx ,so now rocks do have consciousness but don't use it ,you've just described yourself .......

    Do you know what consciousness even means?

    Maxx said ..... Other matter such as rocks and trees and so on has this consciousness


  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    if you learn to read; i also said it pervades through all matter and life forms with brains gives us consciousness awarness. i never claimed rocks had consciousness awarness. now i asked you once, where does consciousness lie in the brain. how does the brain produce it? @Aaron_The_Coward
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    with the insults dee. either debate the OP as a whole or leave my post. @Dee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    What insults? Stop deflecting and prove your point that rocks have consciousness?
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    i already explained several times dee, not my fault you can not read. now debate or leave. how does the brain produce consciousness? @Dee
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    or debate. it is apparent you are roberto. i am sure arrong will like to know. how many times do you have to be banned? do you know what ban even means roberto, arron wedge arron big ego and arron coward? it means you are not allowed on here no matter what name you use!@Aaron_The_Coward
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Stop deflecting you said rocks have consciouness I'm asking you to prove it?
    Aaron_The_Coward
  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    @maxx

    "Einstein showed that time and space are linked. other than that the debate is not about time. @John_C_87"

    No, he didn't show time and space are linked international travel showed us that time and space are linked through time change during passenger ship travel. Einstein tried to mathematically explain time changer. Time is linked to the geometric shape of a circle, and it is the circle which is linked to space by the shape of planets in our solar system and universe. The observation is a geometric shape of the planet’s oval / roundish are connected to the Universe by gravity and the shape gravity creates is connected to motion.What Einstein had proven in mathematics is there had been a mistake being calculated inside calculus and algebra without any understanding of how, where, or why.

    What Einstein had proven in mathematics is there had been a mistake being calculated inside calculus and algebra without any understanding of how, where, or why.

    "Where certain life forms interact with it. what do you think; explain. Einstein showed that time and space are linked. other than that, the debate is not about time."
    My understanding of the debate is we are explaining a connection to elements that are in parallel to human consciousness. "Just like gravity interacts with them. Consciousness is a form of energy and [ just like] time, it is everywhere. It has been said that looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the announcer in the radio." Time has a lot to do with what you are bringing to the debate, and I am pointing out that time is not energy it is gravity which is a form of energy by its connection to laws of motion. Time can be explained as an artificial value of "zero" created by the universe.


     
  • Maxx

    You really need to learn that Dee and Aaron_the_Coward are as useful as hecklers who are unable to speak. Really! Mute is found to be offensive by doctors but abortion a violation of patient privacy law and Constitutional right is not, though illegal?


  • @Dee
    Stop deflecting you said rocks have consciouness I'm asking you to prove it?

    It is what he said but not what he meant... In his explanation earlier he was implying that the rock is part of the elements of consciousness as a whole.  

  •  prove your point that rocks have consciousness?
    I told my pet rock to play dead, it has been laying on my table now since the 70's playing dead.
  • jackjack 453 Pts   -  
    maxx said:

    So the theory states that consciousness is a field of energy that pervades the universe, including all matter; where certain life forms interact with it. what do you think; explain.
    Hello m:

    Yeah...  I've been having this conversation with my little finger.  

    excon

  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    imagine that  appar3ently none of you actually red or understood the actual content of the OP. @jack
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    mute does little good. they can stil ridicule and insult; i just can not see it. what arrong needs is a block, at least on any topic one creates.@John_C_87
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    waht i am debating is a theory. No the universe is not aware but the components that make up the universe leads to consciousness.. The theory is that consciousness is everwhere in space and all matter interacts with it; rather, matter is where this field of consciousness is. an analogy is the ocean, which is the  field and the matter in the ocean absorbs this field, or the field filters through the matter, living or not. when living matter dies, the consciousness is still there just like the water is.  @John_C_87
  • @maxx

    About shaping general, scientific, or plausible acceptable principles in arguments on the forum. What I am trying to say is relax and get the most out of your time try not to be provoked as easily. Sorry about the who mute thing it was a math joke I went off on a tangent…….I'm not sure if you understood the joke itself...


  • jackjack 453 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    maxx said:
    imagine that  appar3ently none of you actually red or understood the actual content of the OP. @jack
    Hello m:

    It's true, m.  I didn't read it, and if I did, I wouldn't have understood it.  I can't even pronounce it.

    So, tell me..  Is my finger me?? Or is it like a rock?

    excon


  • @jack
    So, tell me..  Is my finger me?? Or is it like a rock?
    Lee jun_fan / Ji shou jun 

    consciousness is like the finger pointing a way to the moon.


  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    your finger as well has the rocks is composed of elementary particles. so is your finger  a finger; or is it but a collection of these particles? The building blocks of nature is reality, not how we percieve it. consciousness is the same. Ask yourself what is consciousness actually made of? @jack
  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited April 2023
    @maxx
    Isn't it just easier to tell jack consciousness movers to the brain not other parts of the body.
    : a theory that all nature is psychical or has a psychic aspect and that every physical happening participates in the mental
    Panpsychism Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
    : lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force

  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    perhaps but i am not exactly discussing panpsychism. @John_C_87
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 828 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Against Panpsychism

    There are several arguments against panpsychism that must be considered:

    1. Straw-person fallacy: The theory is over-simplified, and the idea of microphysical entities like atoms exhibiting some form of consciousness is not clear at all. If panpsychism claims that everything, even the tiniest subatomic particle, has some level of consciousness, it portrays an overly simplistic version of physical reality.

    2. Occam’s Razor: This principle, named after philosopher William of Ockham, suggests that in analyzing competing hypotheses, one should select the solution that makes the fewest assumptions and introduces the fewest new or radical entities.  By contrast, panpsychism is a highly complex theory that requires a variety of additional assumptions to explain the universe's behavior, including the existence of micro-consciousnesses in every physical entity.

    3. Ignorance of how consciousness emerges: Panpsychism offers no plausible explanation regarding how simple conscious experiences, arising from matter such as rocks, can develop into more sophisticated experiences such as emotions or conscious thought.  It suffers from an explanatory gap that cannot be plugged by mere assertions of fundamental consciousness at the level of the particles.

    Panpsychism's propositions are unprovable, unverifiable, and even circular.
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    Well. Im not exactly discussing panphysism. Just that consciousness is a form of energy that pervades the universe through all matter. Only life forms with brains use it. No, there is no proof, but science has a theory that consciousness begins at the sub atomic level.  These same particles are present in the brain.  So i ask you, how does the brain produce consciousness and what is it made of?@JulesKorngold
  • @maxx
    perhaps but i am not exactly discussing panpsychism. @John_C_87
    Okay, you lost me........
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    Lets start back a bit. What is energy made of? @John_C_87
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 828 Pts   -  
    While it's an intriguing idea that consciousness may be a universal energy that permeates all matter, it's important to note that it's just a theory at this point and lacks any empirical evidence to support its validity. In fact, the scientific community generally regards consciousness as a highly complex phenomenon that is not yet fully understood.

    In terms of how the brain produces consciousness, there are numerous current theories, but none have been proven beyond a doubt. One such theory is the integrated information theory (IIT), which suggests that consciousness arises from the integrated processing of information in the brain.

    As for what consciousness is made of, it's still a mystery. Some have suggested that it may be a fundamental aspect of the universe, similar to time or space, while others argue that it is simply a byproduct of complex brain activity.


    While the idea of consciousness as a universal energy is an interesting one, it's important to approach it with skepticism until further evidence is available. And while there are many theories about how the brain produces consciousness, none have been definitively proven yet.

    maxx
  • @maxx

    Energy is not made of anything, energy is a term used to describe a trait of matter and non-matter fields. When matter has velocity, for example, it is said to have kinetic energy. There are also various forms of potential energy. These forms of energy can increase or decease each other, but when all the forms are added together, the value remains constant.

  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    All energy as well as all matter is made of quantum particles. These particles, according to the theory,  is what leads up to consciousness.  The brain is but a reciever. These particles pop into and out of existence in space. If the theory is correct,  consciousness is a product of these particles and is in all matter. @John_C_87
    John_C_87
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    All matter, including the components of the brain,  is made of sub atomic particles, so in one way or the other,  they are responsible for consciousness
     Now i am not stating that such particles have conscious awareness,  but the theory is that they contain consciousness.  If so, all matter would contain consciousness,  yet only giving conscious awareness to living matter with brains. @JulesKorngold
  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 695 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    That... isn't how consciousness works, Maxx. Consciousness is the capability of understanding one's own existence, and particles are not conscious in the slightest. What you're essentially saying is "Humans are conscious, humans have carbon in their bodies, therefore carbon is conscious."
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    @maxx

    If so, all matter would contain consciousness,  yet only giving conscious awareness to living matter with brains


    So all matter contains awareness, yet only gives awareness to living matter with brains.....what the living f-ck are you on about?

    " ONLY GIVES"  who or what " only gives" ?   You claim a rock has awareness,  how do you demonstrate this ?

    You truly are a cretin
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    You cant read very well can you . Show me where i said that ALL matter has awarness
     . I said living matter with brains has conscious awareness.  Learn to read or leave the debate to those who can. Take a look at johns and jules replies then look at all of yours. See the difference? They are debating,  while you are making up things and trying to cause trouble. @Dee
    JulesKorngold
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    @maxx



    Show me where i said that ALL matter has awarness


    Sure , here you are in your own words below  you buffoon ......


    So, all matter would contain consciousness

    The definition of Consciousness is  : The state of being aware and responsive to one's own surroundings 


    It's like attempting to talk to a retard , I just bet you make up some ridiculous re - definition in another attempt to deny what you said , everytime you make a statement then  deny you made it and when posted back to you in your own words pretend you meant something else,  same old .mad Maxx nonsense 




  • Luigi7255Luigi7255 695 Pts   -  
    @maxx

    Jules debating? All I've seen him do recently is just hound Dee whenever he shows up and insert stuff about Jews when it has no relevance to the topic. The only people I've seen who truly debates are Zeus and May, the latter of whom appears to have left DI for good. People say I do debate too (though I feel I don't do a good job either).
    Dee
    "I will never change who I am just because you do not approve."
  • JulesKorngoldJulesKorngold 828 Pts   -  
    Luigi7255 said:
    @maxx

    Jules debating? All I've seen him do recently is just hound Dee whenever he shows up and insert stuff about Jews when it has no relevance to the topic. The only people I've seen who truly debates are Zeus and May, the latter of whom appears to have left DI for good. People say I do debate too (though I feel I don't do a good job either).
    You gonna call me blastcat again,  genius?
  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    @maxx

    I am still open to discussing the differences between space and time in more detail....or not. As an opinion I like the hypothesis.

    All energy as well as all matter is made of quantum particles. These particles, according to the theory,  is what leads up to consciousness.  The brain is but a reciever. These particles pop into and out of existence in space. If the theory is correct,  consciousness is a product of these particles and is in all matter. @John_C_87     

    Okay I can follow that.....

    Though in honesty there is no common defesnse desctibing it is only theory and not just fraud dependent on the principle of fraud as too complex to understand by a prosecutor of law.

    : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument
    b
    : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
    2
    : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
    3
    : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement
    Hypothesis Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

    Hypothesis is witten into the deffinition of theory the problem is that the concession made, ceated, or shaped is for money in the form of public and private Grants. The assumption is made on gedneral realtivity being written as fact not theory and this is still done by stating relativity as E ≈ Mc^2
    E = Energy
    M = Mass
    c = constant of light
    2 = A Natural number ****** 

    relativity = ≈ 
    The principle of the idea has merit "These particles, according to the theory,  is what leads up to consciousness.  The brain is but a reciever." My addition would be in wording replacing space with the word time and this change would only correct the principle of the hypothesis into theory.
    plausible
    theory must be plausable a lawyer or a million lawyers saying it cannot be proven either way is not a way to describe something as plausible.
      
    : superficially fair, reasonable, or valuable but often deceptively so
    a plausible pretext
    2
    : superficially pleasing or persuasive
    a swindler …  , then a quack, then a smooth, plausible gentleman—Ralph Waldo Emerson

  • John_C_87John_C_87 Emerald Premium Member 864 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    The definition of Consciousness is  : The state of being aware and responsive to one's own surroundings 
    What did one boulder say to the other boulder?
    "Let's drink in the time to get stoned."

    Boulder Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -  
    and again you can not read. There is a difference between consciousness and awareness. consciousness produces awareness.  awareness does not produce consciousness. consciousness is an energy field. here is an analogy to help you understand. electricity produces light in apparatuses made to produce light. The electricity is not the light in the lamp. electricity can flow many places, through trees, through water, air, even through the wiring of a house; but unless there is something to receive it such as the lamp, the light will not work. Now just substitute electricity and the lamp for consciousness and the brain. The premises is that electricity (consciousness ) flows everywhere and in living matter with the brains (lamp) produces awareness. In non living matter such as water, rocks and so on, it does not do anything. it is just there. Now do you understand the idea enough to debate it properly? Yes it is but a theory with many flaws and i am not even saying it is true. however it is a debate and if you want to debate it then do so. just do not make up things i did not say. @Dee
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    wrong. "awareness" is the ability to understand ones own existence; and consciousness simply produces awareness. @Luigi7255
  • maxxmaxx 1132 Pts   -   edited May 2023
    The point and idea is to debate the theory, not to simply state it is wrong due to assumptions. as for time we have debated it before. You stuck by Newtonian concepts while i suggested that time ; past present and future occurs all at the same moment and that only our perception of it collapse time in to the present state everything in the universe is made up of something, including time, other wise itis but a concept. Accordingly, like gravity, time is a wave and our measurement and perception of it collapses it to the present. .There are no time lines, just past and present and future happening all at once.  @John_C_87
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