when we recall a memory it is almost always from a third person point of view; we "see" ourself in the event as if we are watching it; even though it is impossible to see ourself, let alone from the event perspective. From our earliest childhood memories to what we did an hour ago; we remember it not through our eyes as it happened, but from a third person perspective. Did you take a walk? you should see the view as you are walking, perhaps your legs moving, but the memories sees you from a full vantage point. Did you eat today? do you recall it as seeing the sandwich in your hands as you bite it? no you see yourself from above or from the side eating it. You simply see an image of you doing something, not the actual memory as it happened. You probably do not even see the clothes you were wearing. we view our memories from a third person point of view. I have heard many theories as to why, but I am curious as to what you think.
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Some memories could be different as a result of coming back to them on numerous occasions and revising them, but that does not seem to be how memories work in general.
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I am not sure, maxx, why you are trying to tell me what I see when you cannot see from my perspective. I ate a very nice egg salad this morning, and I can see the bowl in front of me, the spoon in my right hand, the monitor and keyboard in front of me - and not myself from the side. Myself, I can only see when I think about me brushing my teeth earlier this morning and looking in the mirror.
Maybe that is not how most other people see it; I do not know, never asked. But if they see themselves from the third-person perspective, then it is hard to call it a "memory" since the scene in their mind never occurred in their life. It could be that they created a story around their memory and then visualized it and the result of that visualization is what they see now - but then their memory is of that visualization, not of their life.
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i'm on the same page as May I see things in more or less the same way.
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Do you recall the last time you went driving? Be truthful, is your first immediate recall of seeing yourself in the car, or do you just see the dashboard,, the steering wheel, and the traffic ahead of you out of the windshield? @maxx
I was driving yesterday and yes when I recall I see the road ahead , the dashboard , my surroundings as I do in a waking state , I cannot do it any other way , my dreams likewise.
If your stats are accurate the way I recall would suggest the majority recall likewise, I wonder why the difference?
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When I was between ages of 3 and 6, we were very poor and had to live many times in black ghettos and were bullied. fear is another reason of why third person recall, and at such an age, viewing memories in third person, may just have conditioned my brain to continue to remember in such a way. So i am sure the stats are close enough to correct, and the reasons are probably varied and perhaps multiple. I never really thought about it much, until a few days ago, and looked it up. My younger brother is the same way; yet i can of course not ask my parent@maxx
That's very interesting,,maybe the brain uses this way of viewing things as a type of coping mechanism?
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There was a guy who wasn't even Jewish who thought he was both Jewish and a holocaust survivor after reading a lot about the events of WWII. This wasn't fraud, he truly believed what he said and wrote. Very interesting. Also there is false memories of alien abductions and people can create false memories in children which lead to wrongful convictions via the power of suggestion and/or hypnosis.
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I don't think it really matters either way in the grand scheme of things , I read this snippet online .......
"If you have a really negative experience, your brain might disconnect it from yourself, so you might remember that more in the third-person." And one commenter added that memory retrieval in the third-person might be a "trauma response" because these people "tend to be hyper-focused on our surroundings instead of ourselves."
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When I teach a class, I surely think a lot about what it looks like from the students' perspective: in this sense, I imagine a third-person view. The act of imagining produces a clear image in my mind, and I may in the future have some memories of that image. Those, however, will not be memories of me teaching from the third-person view - rather, they will be memories of me imagining myself teaching from the third-person view. They are memories of something that has never happened in reality, but my thinking generated. It is the memory of me watching a documentary about Amazonia and imagining what it would look like if I was there, not a memory of me actually being in Amazonia.
It does not seem sensible to me to use the fact that something would be preferable as an argument in favor of it being true. You may prefer the third-person view - but you only have the first-person one. Reality is not interested in what you prefer. Do you not agree with this?
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Take a painter who paints a lake. There is the lake in front of him; first person. The rest of the landscape can not be painted, for he has no knowledge of it. Yet one day he sees the whole landscape, and then returns to his painting. Now the whole view can be painted into the canvas. That is the third person@maxx
I'm a full time Artist , I don't experience that at all. When I look at a lake in the distance I look right ,left and centre which covers a very large section of the landscape then I narrow it narrow down to a specific focal point normally the most interesting and aesthetically pleasing part of the landscape.
I'm confused now as the what you think third person view is as it sounds like something very strange indeed.and for me Artistically limited..
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*** When you are painting the lake; and later remember it, from a first person view, you will only recall what the eyes saw. However, if your brain already knows what the landscape behind you looks like, the third person memory adds that to your memory***
If your brain already knows what the landscape looks like it's already seen it it,so I don't know what you're getting at.
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You clearly stated......
When you are painting the lake; and later remember it, from a first person view, you will only recall what the eyes saw. However, if your brain already knows what the landscape behind you looks like, the third person memory adds that to your memor
If your brain already knows what the landscape looks like it's already seen it it,so I don't know what you're getting at.
My response is pretty to the point so what am I missing?
I haven't a clue what you mean by ...
you see added scenery that your first person view could not see
What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see?
This is because the brain adds that additional scenery because it is already encoded.
Encoded added scenery that you see but others cannot ,what in gods name is that?
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No I'm not being difficult, you say a lot of things that make no sense.
I have already answered and explained your questions. I am not going to go over and over the same thing. Added scenery is what you already remember from previous knowledge of where you are at.
No you haven't, here is what you won't clarify.
Right , got that we all have the power of visual recalll but you stated....you see added scenery that your first person view could not see
Also you said.....This is because the brain adds that additional scenery because it is already encoded.
What exactly is "encoded additional scenery?
You see the only person being difficult is you as you fly into a sulk when I ask you to clarify , whys that?
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I told you already. the added scenery is what the brain remembers of the area that it already has knowledge of.
Where I live we call that memory
Damn. Do you know what your kitchen looks like? of course. but when you look at your kitchen sink, you do not see the rest of the kitchen in first view. but in third view you see yourself looking at the sink, plus parts of the kitchen you already have knowledge of.
Why do I or would I need to see this way?
As for encoding, that is how memories are stored into your memory banks. You see an event in real time, your brain encodes it in to your memory banks.
Sto repeating what memory is. You said but refuse to clarify .....you see added scenery that your first person view could not ....I'm still, asking what is this added scenery you see that apparently I cannot?
I mean duh
You have a remarkable abilty to make the simplest of topics sound nonsensical by using terminology that is utterly ridiculous, why you sign off with another of your copy and pasted links is beyond me.
Here is a clear example of why engaging with you is truly painful......
When you are painting the lake; and later remember it, from a first person view, you will only recall what the eyes saw. However, if your brain already knows what the landscape behind you looks like, the third person memory adds that to your memory
All you've said here is that you need visual memory to paint the scene but somehow having a third person view adds to that , that's a complete crock of steaming cr-p
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MAYO CLINIC ........
How you're experiencing the world is called depersonalisation. Depersonalisation can be normal, and is only an indicator of underlying disease when feelings become excessive, all-consuming and interfere with life.
Depersonalization-derealization disorder can be serious and may get in the way of your relationships and work. It also can disrupt other daily activities. The main treatment for depersonalization-derealization disorder is psychotherapy, also known as talk therapy. Sometimes medicines also are recommended
When you are painting the lake; and later remember it, from a first person view, you will only recall what the eyes saw.
Yes that's the way memory works.
However, if your brain already knows what the landscape behind you looks like,
Thats called remembering what you've already seen ......Memory recall is the term used by normal people
the third person memory adds that to your memory
What does it "add"?
If I'm anywhere and have been before I can see it in panoramic , close up or above in my memory , what you're trying to say to me sounds the most absurd and inefficient way of recalll and indeed seeing things.
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You were not even aware that depersonalisation was actually a thing until I mentioned it and what's hilarious is now you try lecture me about it
......Depersonalization-derealization disorder occurs when you always or often feel that you're seeing yourself from outside your body......
That's precisely what you suffer from according to medical experts of course you now resort to denialism.
if you are looking at your kitchen sink, do you se yourself looking at it with parts of what is behind you?
What does that even mean? What parts are "behind me" ??.? Seriously are you insane, "parts behind me" !
Here is what you're refusing to answer you stated .....the third person memory adds that to your memory
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ARGUMENT TOPIC : MAXX AS USUAL TIES HIMSELF IN A KNOT AND REFUSES TO ANWER ONE SIMPE QUESTION WHICH REMAINS ......
MAXX SAID .....
What does that even mean? What parts are "behind me" ??.? Seriously are you insane, "parts behind me" !
MAXX SAID ......
...the third person memory adds that to your memory
never mind dee. ive answered all of your questions several times. not going to play your game. If you want the answers to your questions that you keep repeating, read the entire post. It is in there many times. If you have any new constructive questions to ask, i may try to answer them, otherwise go after your points elsewhere. @Dee
MAXX TYPICALLY SULKS WHEN QUESTIONED
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you are full of bull. third person memory is a well documented fact.
I never said otherwise, i accept its a treatable condition as i explained.
i ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS. it ois your own intellectually impairment that makes you able to understand
No you didn't , you refuse to say or answer ... you see added scenery that your first person view could not see
What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
. If you are in your kitchen, i ask, what is behind you? do you see that as part of your memory when you recall looking at the sink?
If you ask that I will say " the fridge is behind me" because that is the question you asked why would it be part of a memory regards a sink?
People with third person memory will. That part of the memory of what is behind you, is added to the memory of you looking at the sink
Utter nonsense if asked what's behind you no matter what way you think an image of what's behind you comes into memory , seriously are you insane?
. if you can not understand that, then you are denser that a lump of lead.
Well that's rich coming from someone who's suffering from a mental condition and seems to think memory is now something recently discovered by him.
I'm serious when I say I honestly believe you're mentally unbalanced
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ARGUMENT TOPIC : THE ONE QUESTION MAXX HAS BEEN ASKED 23 TIMES ( AND COUNTING) ......
What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
one more time mickey. added scenery that from the people from the third person view does not see, but is included in the third person recall, is the area you are in when recalling the actual memory
Why are you always so annoyed?
. I see myself not only getting into the car but the car itself, the top, the back; and it is all very well for you to call something utter nonsense if you never experienced a third person recall, but that does not make it so.
You're still, avoiding answering ...... ... you see added scenery that your first person view could not see
go to another post where you may have a semblance of knowledge
Here you go again flying into a rage because you haven't a clue what you're trying to say ,so here you go .....What . is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
. apparently you are not capable of understanding that people who recall their memories in the third person sees these details, despite of all the links i sent you.
I never said that I'm still asking...... What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
Do not attempt to tell someone or tell someone that they are wrong on something you have no knowledge of. If you want the last word, go ahead. it does not make you anymore knowledgeable on the subject.
i've told no one nothing you're in a rage because you cannot answer...... What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
I have answered all of your questions many times.
I asked one you keep refusing to answer ..... What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
I am tired of trying to explain something to a person who is not capable of understanding it.
Yet you refuse to answer .....What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
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are you that dense?
But you're the one acting like a petulant child.
the painting was an analogy
For what?
. I have answered each of your questions in detail and i am not going to keep answering the same question
You haven't, so why lie? Answer the question below.
But you said....you see added scenery that your first person view could not see..... so what exactly is that an " analogy" for?
Do explain?
What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
So what is it I'm missing?
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As usual Maxx collapses like a cheap deck chair in a gentle summer breeze when asked one simple question.......
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This is not how word "memory" is usually used, as usually it refers to "preserved experiences", rather than more abstract representation of those experience - but, I suppose, the term could be expanded without loss of the original meaning.
I have never found the 1st-person perspective limiting, perhaps because I am very comfortable with ignorance/uncertainty. If I am in a dark forest and hear a rustle behind my back, I will naturally experience primal fear and my imagination will start drawing wild images of monsters behind my back - however, part of my consciousness will be actively telling me that I do not actually know what it was, and that part tends to override other parts past the initial knee-jerk reaction. I am quite comfortable knowing that I will never learn what caused that rustle, and I do not feel the need to mentally zoom out and put something there in order to fill the gap of knowledge.
There are certain things we will never get to know in this world, and that is perfectly fine. I will never know what it is like for the love of my life to kiss me - I cannot experience the world from her perspective and receive her sensory inputs - and that is okay: I can live without that piece of knowledge. I also will never know what it is like to see me walking on the other side of the street from you, and I do not feel the need to use my imagination to fill this gap.
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You conceded defeat 17 posts ago when you point blank refused to answer .......What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
Constantly parroting you answered when you didn't is pretty childish, so in plain english ....What is this added scenery that you see but apparently I cannot see regarding painting a landscape?
Bet you run or deflect and swerve .....again.
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I have answered that question several times; you simply failed to understand
That's simply not true, you made a statement but didnt clarify when questioned
. And defeat of what?
What?
Are you claiming third person memories do not exist?
No , in actual fact I specifically mentioned them and the Mayo clinics assessment of such , seriously can you try and keep up?
If you are painting a picture of a lake, in the first person view, you will recall just what the eyes can see if you are simply sitting still. correct?
And? Thats how painting the scence in front of you works , you seem to find this strange whys that?
Now try to understand: if you already have knowledge of the area ; let say there is a tree or a cave or whatever to the side or back of you that you can not see, from the view where you are sitting, then that added scenery, the tree or cave is added into the memory as you recall yourself painting the lake
What the hell are you rantings about? If I'm painting the lake I see in front of me why do I need to know about added scenery to the side of me?
Are you on drugs? Seriously your posts get more and more crazy.
. This is about the fifth or sixth time i answered this question. I am not going to explain that question again. if you still fail to understand it, then is your problem, not min
No trust me mate the " problem " is solely yours , you're quiet insane.
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I suggest you lay off the cheap wine while on this site
I actually favour mid range price Malbecs .I'm sure landscape painters across the world will embrace your theory that they're doing it wrong because they are not taking the view at the side into account when they're painting the scene in front of them ,seriously ?
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The argument suggesting that human memories are predominantly recalled from a third-person perspective is an interesting one, yet it doesn't completely align with current understanding of memory and cognition.
Most people actually remember events from a first-person perspective, meaning they recall experiences as they saw and lived them, through their own eyes. This first-person recall is the norm for how memories are typically encoded and retrieved.
However, third-person memories, where individuals see themselves as if they were observers, do happen but are less common. Such memories might occur for several reasons, including the reconstructive nature of memory, emotional detachment, or the influence of external media like photographs or videos.
It's crucial to understand that memory isn't a perfect recording. It's reconstructive, which means each time a memory is recalled, it can be altered or influenced by the current mental state, environment, or other memories. This reconstructive process can lead to memories being recalled in the third person, especially if the memory has been repeatedly discussed, imagined, or visualized from an external viewpoint.
Emotional factors also play a role. For instance, highly emotional or traumatic events are sometimes remembered from a third-person perspective, possibly as a coping mechanism allowing some emotional detachment.
The influence of external media is another factor. The way movies and photographs present scenes can affect how people recall their own memories. Seeing pictures or videos of an event can lead individuals to start recalling that event from the perspective shown in these images.
Additionally, cultural and individual differences might impact how memories are recalled. Some research indicates that in cultures where the community is emphasized more than the individual, third-person memories may be more prevalent.
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