Will Biden answer for his crimes?

Factfinder

Argument Topic: The dominoes are starting to fall

Nobody's reporting but things are getting interesting at the house oversight committee. People naming joe biden as the 'brand' hunter sold...evidence...

In July 2023, former Biden business associate Devon Archer described how Joe Biden was “The Brand” and was used to send “signals” of power, access, and influence to enrich the Biden family from foreign sources.

https://oversight.house.gov/blog/evidence-of-joe-bidens-involvement-in-his-familys-influence-peddling-schemes/

Factfinder

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdfOn April 16, 2014, Vice President Biden met with his son’s business partner, Devon Archer, at the White House. Five days later, Vice President Biden visited Ukraine, and he soon after was described in the press as the “public face of the administration’s handling of Ukraine.” The day after his visit, on April 22, Archer joined the board of Burisma. Six days later, on April 28, British officials seized $23 million from the London bank accounts of Burisma’s owner, Mykola Zlochevsky. Fourteen days later, on May 12, Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma, and over the course of the next several years, Hunter Biden and Devon Archer were paid millions of dollars from a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch for their participation on the board. 

Factfinder

Really @Jack, they don't have nothing? Remember Joe said he knew nothing about this, but he did/does...

Records obtained through the Committee’s subpoenas to date reveal that the Bidens and their associates have received over $20 million in payments from foreign entities.

Below is a timeline that details key dates in our investigation.

The main points of interest are:

1) Romania: On September 28, 2015, Vice President Biden welcomed Romanian President Klaus Iohannis to the White House. Within five weeks of this meeting, a Romanian businessman involved with a high-profile corruption prosecution in Romania, Gabriel Popoviciu, began depositing a Biden associate’s bank account, which ultimately made their way into Biden family accounts. Popoviciu made sixteen of the seventeen payments, totaling over $3 million, to the Biden associate account while Joe Biden was Vice President.  Biden family accounts ultimately received approximately $1.038 million.  The total amount from Romania to the Biden family and their associates is over $3 million.

2) China- CEFC: On March 1, 2017—less than two months after Vice President Joe Biden left public office—State Energy HK Limited, a Chinese company, wired $3 million to a Biden associate’s account. This is the same bank account used in the above “Romania” section. After the Chinese company wired the Biden associate account the $3 million, the Biden family received approximately $1,065,692 over a three-month period in different bank accounts. Additionally, the CEFC Chairman gives Hunter Biden a diamond worth $80,000. Lastly, CEFC creates a joint venture with the Bidens in the summer of 2017.  The timeline lays out the “WhatsApp” messages and subsequent wires from the Chinese to the Bidens of $100,000 and $5 million. The total amount from China, specifically with CEFC and their related entities, to the Biden family and their associates is over $8 million.

3) China- Bohai Harvest RST Equity Investment Fund Management Co., Ltd. (BHR): More information will be provided in our upcoming Fourth Bank Memorandum.

4) Kazakhstan: On April 22, 2014, Kenes Rakishev, a Kazakhstani oligarch used his Singaporean entity, Novatus Holdings, to wire one of Hunter Biden’s Rosemont Seneca entities $142,300. The very next day—April 23, 2014—the Rosemont Seneca entity transferred the exact same amount of money to a car dealership for a car for Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden and Devon Archer would represent Burisma in Kazakhstan in May/June of 2014 as the company attempted to broker a three-way deal among Burisma, the Kazakhstan government, and a Chinese state-owned energy company.

5) Ukraine: Devon Archer joined the Burisma board of directors in spring of 2014 and was joined by Hunter Biden shortly thereafter.  Hunter Biden joined thecompany as counsel, but after a meeting with Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky in Lake Como, Italy, was elevated to the board of directors in the spring of 2014.  Both Biden and Archer were each paid $1 million per year for their positions on the board of directors.  In December 2015, after a Burisma board of directors meeting, Zlochevsky and Hunter Biden “called D.C.” in the wake of mounting pressures the company was facing.  Zlochevsky was later charged with bribing Ukrainian officials with $6 million in an attempt to delay or drop the investigation into his company.  The total amount from Ukraine to the Biden family and their associates is $6.5 million.

6) Russia: On February 14, 2014, a Russian oligarch and Russia’s richest woman, Yelena Baturina, wired a Rosemont Seneca entity $3.5 million.  On March 11, 2014, the wire was split up: $750,000 was transferred to Devon Archer, and the remainder was sent to Rosemont Seneca Bohai, a company Devon Archer and Hunter Biden split equally.  In spring of 2014, Yelena Baturina joined Hunter Biden and Devon Archer to share a meal with then-Vice President Biden at a restaurant in Washington, D.C.  The total amount from Russia to the Biden family and their associates is $3.5 million.

Beyond this timeline, here are links to our First, Second, Third, and Fourth Bank Memorandums that provide detailed descriptions and show actual bank records and wires.

https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/

RickeyHoltsclaw

Biden and his crime family will answer for their "crimes" at the Judgment of the Condemned prior to adjudication in Hell.

Prospero

Argument Topic: Your question has an assumed premise.

@Factfinder

No evidence has ever been provided that President Biden has committed any crimes. I invite you to substantiate that claim, however, though I doubt you will find it because I've examined every piece if evidence offered by Comer, Jordan, et al., and they have yet to produce any hard, definitive, incontrovertible evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.  

Moreover, your raising the trope about Ukraine is simply a misunderstanding of what took place.  Biden didn't commit any kind of crime, such as extortion or bribery, because, in order to commit such a crime he would have to have benefited personally.  What he did was to the benefit of the United States, the International Monetary Fund, our allies, and fulfilled a foreign policy objective in the region.  He leveraged a a substantial loan gaurantee to as an incentive to get Poroshenko to fire Shokin, who was not investigating corruption in Ukraine, which was complicating Obama's efforts to provide Ukraine with military aid.  That is not a crime, that is a common tactic in diplomacy -- using leverage to forward a foreign policy objective.  But had to limit the lethality of that aid due to extensive corruption in Ukraine, and Shokin wasn't doing his job.  There is no crime here.  I can provide substantiation, if you need it.  Just let me know.  By the way, this trope has been debunked in a number of credible sources, which I will provide for you, on request.  

Prospero

Argument Topic: What corruption?

@Bogan

Your claim that Biden is obviously corrupt.  This is false,  No evidence of any wrongdoing by Joe Biden has ever been produced.  I invite you to substantiate your claim.   

jack

Factfinder said:

Really @Jack, they don't have nothing? Remember Joe said he knew nothing about this, but he did/does...

Hello again, Fact:

That's nice..  But, I don't follow right wing lore.  And, frankly, it's a lot flapping gums, anyway.  Now, I KNOW you believe the DOJ is weaponized, so that would be your reasons why nobody files charges against Biden.  But there is an abundance of local DA's like Alvin Bragg and local attorneys general all over this great country of ours who WOULD gladly bring charges if there was any there, there.  But they DON'T.  Ask yourself why.

Plus, that right wing crackpot Congressman James Comer who's IN CHARGE of investigating Biden, COULD form a select committee to INVESTIGATE Biden, and IMPEACH him..  But, he DOESN'T.  Ask yourself why.

excon

Prospero

Argument Topic: Tired tropes on parade, tsk tsk.

@Bogan

You're saying Biden bragged about bribing the Ukrainian government to fire a prosecutor investigating a company paying his son a million bucks a year. Let's set the record straight. Biden did pressure Ukraine to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, but it wasn't to protect his son. Shokin was widely criticized for not tackling corruption. Biden's actions aligned with international (the IMF and that of our allies) and Ukrainian anti-corruption efforts, not some personal agenda.

The idea that the Biden family has 50 shell companies for money laundering has been tossed around, but where's the solid proof? Lots of families have complex financial setups, especially when involved in various business ventures. Assuming it's all shady without concrete evidence is jumping the gun. There are over a dozen legit reasons for a shell LLC, you need to prove that none of them were the reason, noting that Trump  has some 500 shells, and I don't see you barking at him.

You claim Joe Biden owns assets his government salary couldn’t cover. Biden has been in politics for decades, written books, and done speaking engagements. He's made legitimate money outside his government salary. Heck, Forbes has done an entire article on Joe Biden's finances, google it.  

About the FBI withholding evidence of Biden family corruption: the FBI isn't a monolith working to protect Biden. They've investigated and haven't found any prosecutable evidence against him. Conspiracy theories are easy to throw around, but they need facts to back them up.

Business partners testifying before Congress about Biden taking bribes is another thing people love to bring up. Devon Archer, Hunter Biden's former business partner, testified that while Joe Biden did meet some of Hunter's business associates, there was no evidence Joe was involved in their business dealings or received bribes. None, nor did Archer's testimony implicate Joe in anything. Ih fact, the opposite, his testimony exonerated Joe.  

You say people protect Biden because they're somehow benefiting from this "gravy train." It’s easy to dismiss political support as personal gain, but sometimes people just genuinely believe in the policies and actions of the politicians they support. Not everyone has a hidden agenda.

You haven't provided one stitch of evidence for your claims.  Feel tree to try, though I doubt you can.  

4o

Prospero

Argument Topic: Right wing tired tropes on parade, clip long since debunked, many times over.

@Bogan

You are promulgating the old, tired, debunked lie that Biden's withholding of loan guarantees to Ukraine was an attempt to prevent the investigation of Burisma, given that Hunter Biden was on the board.

Your video, which many on the right falsely believe supports this conspiracy theory. But, context is missing. However, even without the context, there is nothing in the video that supports the claim. There is NO CRIME in that video. 

I've seen that video a number of times. There is ZERO evidence the video proves that objective had anything to do with Biden attempting to thwart investigation into Burisma. In fact, the evidence proves the OPPOSITE.

Here are the multiple sourced FACTS.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/464302-gop-senator-says-he-doesnt-remember-signing-2016-letter-urging-reform-of/

““The United States, the European Union, the I.M.F., and Ukraine’s leading reform figures were all pressing for Viktor Shokin to be removed from office because he was one of the biggest obstacles to fighting corruption in the entire country. This was a bipartisan goal in Congress as well.”

The withholding of loan guarantees spoken of by Biden in that video was the incentive to get the Poroshenko/Ukrainian Parliament to fire Shokin, the corrupt Ukraine prosecutor, which was the foreign policy of the United States, and the International Monetary Fund with the approval of Democrat and Senate Republicans, at that time.

Why? Because Obama was wary of providing military support to Ukraine, at the time, given the massive corruption in the Country, and SHOKIN was NOT doing his job to fight corruption and naturally Obama didn't want taxpayer funds misappropriated in a corrupt country.

That is precisely the OPPOSITE of the claim.

What, do you (who believe the conspiracy theory) think a man with 30 years in the Senate would be enough to admit to a federal crime on television? If you do, you are unaware of the facts and haven't thought it through.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden–Ukraine_conspiracy_theory

The conspiracy theory alleges that then-Vice President Biden withheld loan guarantees to pressure Ukraine into firing a prosecutor to prevent a corruption investigation into Burisma and to protect his son. The United States did withhold government aid to pressure Ukraine into removing the prosecutor, in accord with the official and bipartisan policy of the federal government of the United States. The US government, along with the European Union, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, believed the prosecutor to be corrupt and ineffective and too lenient in investigating companies and oligarchs, including Burisma and its owner. A January 2018 video shows Biden taking credit for withholding the loan guarantees to have the prosecutor fired, acting to implement bipartisan US policy rather than for the reasons the conspiracy theory alleges.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/viktor-shokin-ukraine-prosecutor-trump-biden-hunter-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html

Donald Trump said Ukraine’s former chief prosecutor was an honest, wronged man, fired after Joe Biden tried to shut down an investigation into his son’s gas company. In Kiev, Oliver Carroll speaks to people who know Viktor Shokin, and finds a different story

Republicans wanted Shokin removed, as well:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/23/gops-hunter-biden-report-doesnt-back-up-trumps-actual-conspiracy-theory-or-anything-close-it/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/politics/gop-senators-echoed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/viktor-shokin-ukraine-prosecutor-trump-biden-hunter-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html

Factchecking right wing lies
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/30/fact-checking-first-trump-biden-presidential-debate/

(Even the GOP chairman of the Homeland Security Committee which spearheaded this report, Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson, backed the effort to remove Shokin, saying the “whole world” agreed he wasn’t doing a good job.)

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-trump-whistleblower/timeline-key-dates-in-the-u-s-political-controversy-over-ukraine-idUSL2N26E1AX/

April 21, 2014: Biden, then vice president, visited Ukraine’s capital, Kiev, in a show of support for the country’s government amid rising tensions with Russia.

May 13, 2014: Burisma Group, a private company that has drilled for natural gas in Ukraine since 2002, announced that Hunter Biden would be joining its board. Around that time, Burisma’s founder, a former government official named Mykola Zlochevsky, was under investigation for alleged money laundering by Britain’s Serious Fraud Office.

Dec. 8, 2015: Biden visited Kiev again and spoke out against bureaucratic corruption that he said was eating Ukraine “like a cancer.” Biden threatened to withhold loan guarantees unless Ukraine’s top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who had been widely accused of corruption, was removed.

Shokin had investigated Burisma but the probe was dormant at the time Biden pushed for the prosecutor’s termination, Bloomberg reported earlier this year, citing a former Ukrainian official.

March 29, 2016: The Ukrainian Parliament voted to remove Shokin.

Jan. 23, 2018: Biden, at a Council on Foreign Relations event, detailed how he had threatened to withhold funds from Ukraine if Shokin was not removed.

April 2019: Hunter Biden’s term as a Burisma board member expired and he stepped down from the company.

May 16, 2019: Bloomberg quotes Ukraine’s current top prosecutor as saying he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden or his father.

Please understand that, in the above post, I went beyond what is normally required to disprove a claim, but I did it because this conspiracy theory is a veritable zombie, it keeps coming up by those on the right, over and over and over again.  Let the above end the argument forthwith. Let's get something straight, there is no counter argument. The claim is utterly, completely, immutably, false.  

Factfinder

Prospero said:

@Factfinder

No evidence has ever been provided that President Biden has committed any crimes. I invite you to substantiate that claim, however, though I doubt you will find it because I've examined every piece if evidence offered by Comer, Jordan, et al., and they have yet to produce any hard, definitive, incontrovertible evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden.  

Moreover, your raising the trope about Ukraine is simply a misunderstanding of what took place.  Biden didn't commit any kind of crime, such as extortion or bribery, because, in order to commit such a crime he would have to have benefited personally.  What he did was to the benefit of the United States, the International Monetary Fund, our allies, and fulfilled a foreign policy objective in the region.  He leveraged a a substantial loan gaurantee to as an incentive to get Poroshenko to fire Shokin, who was not investigating corruption in Ukraine, which was complicating Obama's efforts to provide Ukraine with military aid.  That is not a crime, that is a common tactic in diplomacy -- using leverage to forward a foreign policy objective.  But had to limit the lethality of that aid due to extensive corruption in Ukraine, and Shokin wasn't doing his job.  There is no crime here.  I can provide substantiation, if you need it.  Just let me know.  By the way, this trope has been debunked in a number of credible sources, which I will provide for you, on request.  

Correction, all the evidence provided is what you casually dismiss. I already have substantiated that claim. Bank records don't lie, or are you saying they do? The only trope being raised is the idiocy of anyone believing vice president Joe; who was spearheading the charge to stop corruption in Ukraine; didn't know his son's business in Ukraine while they were both there interacting with corruptive agents and/or entities on or about the same time. That lie which always gets passed over with all the explanations provided; is what will hang Biden. Hence the up to date testimonies and financial records. You see? It's not about why Biden bragged, it's about the fact that he did. Trump being an opportunistic mistakenly assumed Shokin would be an ally, that much is true, but what happened as a result was a huge spot light was shined on the fact Biden and his son were both there, mingling in the same circle of associates and acquaintances, about the same subjects and Biden claims he doesn't know anything? The evidence mounts against him. Not to mention you say nothing of the fact Hunter traveled with vice president Joe a number of times to foreign countries conducting business on air force two. Ask yourself, if it were Trump would you be so eager to look the other way?

Should you decide to provide 'credible sources' please provide the names and the activities of the credible investigative journalists who filed the stories. I would need that information to truly fact check them because as you know even fact checking sites have been vulnerable to corruption. And simply quoting the ap on spoon fed 'news' from government sources and press conferences are not credible. I know you on the left tend to take a man's word when they say they identify as a woman so they can follow little girls into public bathrooms; but in reality that nonsense don't fly. So a government official like a Biden spokesperson or appointee spoon feeding the press is just propaganda you agree with, nothing more.

You're saying Biden bragged about bribing the Ukrainian government to fire a prosecutor investigating a company paying his son a million bucks a year. Let's set the record straight. Biden did pressure Ukraine to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, but it wasn't to protect his son. Shokin was widely criticized for not tackling corruption. Biden's actions aligned with international (the IMF and that of our allies) and Ukrainian anti-corruption efforts, not some personal agenda.

That's neither here nor there. His official capacity simply aligned with providing cover for his son and his more personal goals. As I said the fact that he bragged; and with such bravado was a strong indicator he felt he got away with something more then simply following policy, that would never be uncovered he believed. 

Factfinder

jack said:

Factfinder said:

Really @Jack, they don't have nothing? Remember Joe said he knew nothing about this, but he did/does...

Hello again, Fact:

That's nice..  But, I don't follow right wing lore.  And, frankly, it's a lot flapping gums, anyway.  Now, I KNOW you believe the DOJ is weaponized, so that would be your reasons why nobody files charges against Biden.  But there is an abundance of local DA's like Alvin Bragg and local attorneys general all over this great country of ours who WOULD gladly bring charges if there was any there, there.  But they DON'T.  Ask yourself why.

Plus, that right wing crackpot Congressman James Comer who's IN CHARGE of investigating Biden, COULD form a select committee to INVESTIGATE Biden, and IMPEACH him..  But, he DOESN'T.  Ask yourself why.

excon

I don't follow right wing lore either! We have that in common. However I've decided not to follow left wing lore as well. How's it working for you? 

And I know you know it has been weaponized otherwise they would be looking into the bank records and fresh testimonies from Biden associates if it wasn't corrupt. Local DA's don't have the resources it takes to prosecute federal crimes of a complex nature involving other countries, or the jurisdiction unless the specific crimes unfolded in their locals. Which is why we have a larger investigative institution like the DOJ. In other words the obvious answer as you well know; is to get to the bottom of a case this big we need the DOJ to do there job, that's why local prosecutors aren't handling the case.. Ask yourself why don't you want the DOJ to do their job?

When your president isn't sitting somewhere drooling waiting for his cue cards he's doing this and you approve?...

Factfinder

@jack

The reason the DOJ purposely decided not to do their job from Hur's own lips...

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden sidestepped any criminal charges as the investigation into his handling of classified documents concluded, but the political blowback from the special counsel’s report Thursday could prove even more devastating, reinforcing impressions that he is too old and impaired to hold the highest office.

Special counsel Robert Hur’s portrait of a man who couldn’t remember when he served as Barack Obama’s vice president, or the year when his beloved son Beau died, dealt a blow to Biden’s argument that he is still sharp and fit enough to serve another four-year term.

In deciding not to charge Biden with any crimes, the special counsel wrote that in a potential trial, “Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview with him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”

It was tough enough for Biden to reassure voters about his health before Hur’s report hit like a thunderclap Thursday afternoon, prompting members of his own party to question whether he could remain the nominee in November.

“It’s a nightmare,” said a Democratic House member who asked to speak anonymously to provide a frank assessment, adding that “it weakens President Biden electorally, and Donald Trump would be a disaster and an authoritarian.”

“For Democrats, we’re in a grim situation.” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975

So Jack your leader is a criminal and don't remember, that's why they won't do there job cause Joe isn't mentally competent to stand trial. Why doesn't your party do the honorable thing and have him step down? Oh that's right, your party lost all credibility when it allowed the woke extremist to take it over and use Biden as their puppet. 

Seriously Jack, don't you long for the JFK democrat party that used to want to help struggling hard working Americans?