Are the secular religions of Atheism - Secular Humanism based solely on FAITH?

just_sayin

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the beginning, there was a void called Ginnungagap, flanked by the realms of fiery Muspelheim and icy Niflheim. The interaction between the heat from Muspelheim and the ice from Niflheim in Ginnungagap led to the creation of Ymir, the first being, and the cow Audhumla. From Ymir's body came the first giants, and from the interactions between these beings, the gods emerged, including Odin and his brothers Vili and Vé. These gods are credited with killing Ymir and creating the world from his body: his flesh became the earth, his blood the seas, his skull the sky, and his bones the mountains.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the boundless cosmic ocean, before the beginning of time, there was neither existence nor non-existence. The world was enveloped in darkness and primal undifferentiated chaos. From this void, the universal spirit, Brahman, the ultimate reality and source of all existence, manifested. In its desire to create, Brahman assumed the form of Narayana (Vishnu), lying upon the cosmic waters, floating on the serpent Ananta-Sesha. From Narayana's navel sprouted a lotus, from which emerged Brahma, the creator god.

Tasked with the creation of the universe, Brahma split the lotus into three parts, forming the heavens, the earth, and the skies. Using the powers bestowed upon him, Brahma began the process of creation, bringing forth various beings, sages, and gods to inhabit the universe. Among his first creations were the Devas (gods), Asuras (demons), and the ancestors of all beings. The cycle of creation, preservation, and destruction, overseen by the Trimurti—Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Shiva the Destroyer—thus began, setting the stage for the endless cycles of existence known as Samsara.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the beginning, there was only Chaos, a vast and dark void. From this primordial emptiness emerged Gaia (the Earth), Tartarus (the abyss below), Eros (love, the force of attraction), Erebus (darkness), and Nyx (night). Gaia, the Earth Mother, without need for a consort, brought forth Uranus (the sky) to cover her, the Mountains, and Pontus (the sea) to complete her landscape.

Gaia and Uranus became the first divine couple, and from their union, the Titans were born, along with the Cyclopes and the Hecatoncheires (hundred-handed giants). However, Uranus, fearing their strength, imprisoned his children in Tartarus. Distraught, Gaia crafted a great adamantine sickle and conspired with her children to overthrow Uranus. Cronus, the youngest Titan, took up the sickle and castrated Uranus, casting his genitals into the sea, from which Aphrodite later emerged.

Cronus, having overthrown his father, took his place as the ruler of the cosmos, marrying his sister Rhea. However, haunted by a prophecy that he would be overthrown by his own child, Cronus devoured his offspring at birth. Rhea, desperate to save her youngest son, Zeus, tricked Cronus by giving him a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes to swallow instead.

Zeus, raised in secret, grew strong and led a rebellion against Cronus and the Titans, a cosmic battle known as the Titanomachy. With the help of his siblings, whom he freed from Cronus's belly, and the Cyclopes and Hecatoncheires, Zeus emerged victorious. The Titans were cast into Tartarus, and Zeus became the king of the gods, ruling from Mount Olympus. Thus, from chaos and rebellion, order was established in the universe, and the reign of the Olympian gods began, marking the beginning of the age of gods and humans on Earth.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the realm of the timeless, beyond the bounds of form and void, there existed only the One, Ek Onkar. Without fear, without enmity, immortal, unborn, and self-illumined, the One reality pervaded all that is seen and unseen. In this divine singularity, there was no day, no night, no earth, no sky, but only the infinite presence of the Creator.

From this profound stillness, by the Creator's will, came the vibration of sound, Omkar, the divine Word from which all creation sprang into existence. The universe was manifested, fashioned by the Creator's command, bringing forth the elements, the worlds, the beings, and the intricate play of creation, all woven by the One into the fabric of reality.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the first Sikh Guru, revealed that before the creation, God was absorbed within Himself, contemplating the true Name, Satnam. In His grace, He created the world and the law of Karma, decreeing that all beings shall reap the fruits of their actions. Yet, above all, He established the path of righteousness, love, and devotion, through which one may realize the ultimate truth and merge back into the One.

The Creator, timeless and beyond comprehension, watches over this cosmic play, untouched by the creations yet intimately connected through His divine order, Hukam. It is in understanding and aligning oneself with this divine will that one finds liberation, transcending the cycle of birth and death to attain union with the Creator.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Before there was anything, there was Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate. Allah, in His infinite wisdom and power, chose to create the universe. "Be," He commanded, and from this command, the universe came into being, expanding and flourishing. Allah created the heavens and the earth in six days, setting the stars in the sky, establishing the night and the day, and ordaining the laws that govern all creation.

From His creative word, Allah fashioned the first human, Adam, from clay, and breathed into him of His spirit. He honored Adam and his descendants as His vicegerents on earth, entrusting them with the stewardship of His creation. To guide humanity, Allah sent down prophets and messengers, from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and finally, Muhammad, peace be upon them all, each receiving divine revelation to lead their people to the path of righteousness.

Allah's revelations, culminating in the Quran revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, serve as a guide for humanity, offering the wisdom to live a life in submission to His will, known as Islam. The Quran describes the wonders of creation, from the intricacies of the human soul to the vastness of the cosmos, as signs of Allah's majesty and mercy, inviting believers to reflect, to understand, and to worship the One who created all things.

Life on earth is presented as a test, a brief opportunity to live according to Allah's guidance and to earn His favor before returning to Him in the afterlife, where every soul will be judged. Paradise is promised to those who believe, do righteous deeds, and remain steadfast in their faith, while those who reject faith and lead a life of injustice face a dire reckoning.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters. With a divine decree, "Let there be light," God summoned light into existence, distinguishing day from night, and thus the first day came to be.

Over the course of six days, God continued the act of creation with purpose and order. The firmament was established to divide the waters, creating the sky. Dry land appeared, separated from the seas, and was adorned with vegetation, plants, and trees. The celestial bodies—the sun, the moon, and the stars—were set in the expanse of the sky to mark times and seasons.

God then filled the earth with living creatures: birds in the sky, fish in the seas, and animals upon the land. And on the sixth day, God created humankind in His image, male and female, entrusting them with stewardship over all living things. Seeing all that He had made, God declared it very good.

On the seventh day, God ceased His work of creation and rested, blessing the seventh day and making it holy. This day of rest, the Sabbath, was established as a perpetual covenant between God and the people of Israel, a day of rest and worship.

ZeusAres42

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

And neither does science assume a conclusion based on ignorance. 

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

LOL those posts are great but I'm afraid ricky won't even bother to read them to allow the irony to resonate. He'll just aimlessly post more verses.

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

Interestingly, I am currently reading a book now by an Atheist who was a former Apologist and is now demonstrating how to argue the Christian Faith from an Atheist perspective. This guy was trained by the Top Apologists including William Lane Craig among others. He is also now a counter apologist. He talks a lot about the stuff that you shouldn't do when defending this faith and all the mistakes that Apologists make. However, where @RickeyHoltsClaw is concerned no book is necessary! 

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@Factfinder

Interestingly, I am currently reading a book now by an Atheist who was a former Apologist and is now demonstrating how to argue the Christian Faith from an Atheist perspective. This guy was trained by the Top Apologists including William Lane Craig among others. He is also now a counter apologist. He talks a lot about the stuff that you shouldn't do when defending this faith and all the mistakes that Apologists make. However, where @RickeyHoltsClaw is concerned no book is necessary! 

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @GnosticChristian

1) You should be reading and studying the Scriptures for life, not how to obfuscate your death in atheism.

2) There are those in pulpit this very day that are not saved from death in Hell though they preach the Gospel one-two-three+ times a week and minister to the needy.

3) You are kicking against the goads in atheistic idiocy...you will only find Hell at the end of your journey, trust me on this.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ; @ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; You do assume by faith that there is no Creator because you cannot prove otherwise and extant unexplainable evidence confronts you daily...you therefore place your faith in ignorance in atheism which placates your seared conscience as you die daily headed to the "second death" in Hell...this is truly mental and spiritual illness defined.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the realm of the timeless, beyond the bounds of form and void, there existed only the One, Ek Onkar. Without fear, without enmity, immortal, unborn, and self-illumined, the One reality pervaded all that is seen and unseen. In this divine singularity, there was no day, no night, no earth, no sky, but only the infinite presence of the Creator.

From this profound stillness, by the Creator's will, came the vibration of sound, Omkar, the divine Word from which all creation sprang into existence. The universe was manifested, fashioned by the Creator's command, bringing forth the elements, the worlds, the beings, and the intricate play of creation, all woven by the One into the fabric of reality.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji, the first Sikh Guru, revealed that before the creation, God was absorbed within Himself, contemplating the true Name, Satnam. In His grace, He created the world and the law of Karma, decreeing that all beings shall reap the fruits of their actions. Yet, above all, He established the path of righteousness, love, and devotion, through which one may realize the ultimate truth and merge back into the One.

The Creator, timeless and beyond comprehension, watches over this cosmic play, untouched by the creations yet intimately connected through His divine order, Hukam. It is in understanding and aligning oneself with this divine will that one finds liberation, transcending the cycle of birth and death to attain union with the Creator.

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @GnosticChristian

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Before there was anything, there was Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate. Allah, in His infinite wisdom and power, chose to create the universe. "Be," He commanded, and from this command, the universe came into being, expanding and flourishing. Allah created the heavens and the earth in six days, setting the stars in the sky, establishing the night and the day, and ordaining the laws that govern all creation.

From His creative word, Allah fashioned the first human, Adam, from clay, and breathed into him of His spirit. He honored Adam and his descendants as His vicegerents on earth, entrusting them with the stewardship of His creation. To guide humanity, Allah sent down prophets and messengers, from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and finally, Muhammad, peace be upon them all, each receiving divine revelation to lead their people to the path of righteousness.

Allah's revelations, culminating in the Quran revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, serve as a guide for humanity, offering the wisdom to live a life in submission to His will, known as Islam. The Quran describes the wonders of creation, from the intricacies of the human soul to the vastness of the cosmos, as signs of Allah's majesty and mercy, inviting believers to reflect, to understand, and to worship the One who created all things.

Life on earth is presented as a test, a brief opportunity to live according to Allah's guidance and to earn His favor before returning to Him in the afterlife, where every soul will be judged. Paradise is promised to those who believe, do righteous deeds, and remain steadfast in their faith, while those who reject faith and lead a life of injustice face a dire reckoning.

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder @GnosticChristian ; @MayCaesar ; 

You see, this is why the atheist dies in Hell...spiritual ignorance void a motive to change and find life in Jesus.

Allah of Islam v. Jesus Christ, Elohim…

Islam is a demonically rooted religious cult born of adultery, unfaithfulness, between Abraham and Hagar which produced the “wild donkey” of a man named Ishmael; Ishmael is NOT the son of promise as only Isaac born through Sarah via Abraham would be the seed (Jacob-Israel) through whom God would set-apart a people group for His eschatological purposes in Time and Eternity…”a blessing to every family of the Earth” (Genesis 12:3).Ishmael is the progenitor of the Ishmaelites (Midianites) who became a virulent enemy of Israel. The Ishmaelites are the progenitors of a 7th-Century demon possessed pedophile, thief, murderer, named Muhammad who is the father of Islam and ultimately the Islamic Caliphate (a murdering hoard of demonically led warriors) who fulfilled the prophecy concerning Ishmael’s descendants who would be enemies of every family of the Earth.

Islam’s Allah is Satan masquerading as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) via the Arabic moon god; in this, Satan is currently receiving the praise, worship, adoration, via Islam denied him during his coup d’é·tat in the Kingdom of God, a rebellion of cosmic proportions which necessitated extrication from the Kingdom (Luke 10:18; Ezekiel 28:11-19) and the creation of Time, this Universe, as a repository, ground zero, where our God, Jesus Christ our Warrior, has ultimately defeated the Evil One through self-less love at Golgotha i.e. the Gospel ordained “before Time began” (2 Timothy 1:9-10; 1 John 3:8b). For the previous 6000-years this war between the god of Islam and Elohim, Jesus Christ (1 John 3:8b), has waged among and within mankind partially constrained by Time and physics; soon, Jesus Christ will restrain the Evil One, Allah, during His Millennial Reign resulting in 1000-years of perfect peace; subsequently, Jesus will confine Allah and his demonic hoard in the Pit of Hell, forever (Revelation 20:10), and Allah will deceive and murder no more.

Subsequent the Judgment of the Condemned (Rev 20:11-15), Jesus Christ will purify the Earth of Allah’s defilement by fire (2 Peter 3:7-10) and in its place provide a New Earth and a New Heaven where the faithful in Jesus Christ will reign with Him in resurrected bodies (Philippians 3:21) within the New Jerusalem, forever (Revelation 20-22). In summation, the horrors of Allah on the Earth for 6000+ years will act as a bulwark against future disobedience, rebellion, in the Kingdom of God as free will remains extant by necessity.

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

Do you have the name of that book you're reading? Naturally it written from a perspective I can identify with.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

ZeusAres42

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

Do you have the name of that book you're reading? Naturally it written from a perspective I can identify with.

oh yeah, sorry. He: "Buch von John W. Loftus." https://www.amazon.com/How-Defend-Christian-Faith-Atheist/dp/163431056X

It's also not a satirical book funnily enough lol. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

@ZeusAres42 ; Good for you...good luck with that.

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

The Omkar holy spirit guided me into faith. Special revelation revealed all other gods including the Abrahamic variety are false gods!

MayCaesar

I think it is just about knowledge and experience. When you are 3 year old, your parents tell you that Santa Claus will put a few socks with presents under the Christmas tree at night, and you wake up next morning and see the socks with presents in them - the logical conclusion for you to make is, "My parents were right! Thanks, Santa!" Then, a year later, you sneak up to the Christmas tree at night to see the Santa - and see your parents putting presents in the socks. Then the logical conclusion changes: "Well, I should have seen that coming. This makes a lot more sense than a story about a grandpa riding a flying horse cart". As your knowledge and experience accumulate, you eventually come to the conclusion that all these stories are just fantasies, and the reality is much more plain and understandable than all these supposed magics.

On the other hand, suppose you are a member of the Church of the Santa Claus, where every day everyone around you tells you about how generous Santa is. Then, even if you witness your parents put presents in the socks, you will be hesitant to acknowledge the reality: "But all those people are saying that Santa exists... He must! Maybe the parents are doing Divine Santa's will!" The pain of having the beliefs you have been pressured into for so long collapse is so great, you will go very far trying to keep them despite all the evidence of them being fantasies.

I do not rely on "faith" when I say that, for instance, life on Earth was not generated by a Sky Wizard waving his Magic Wand. It is just a reasonable observation: there was no life on Earth 4 billion years ago, there was 2 billion years ago, and life is made of the same matter as everything else on this planet, and in this Universe in general. What is more likely - that some unknown mechanism of spontaneous arrangement of matter in a way that forms self-replicating structures exists, or that Zeus or Poseidon or some other creature from ancient tales cast a spell and created the first life prototypes?

It would be faith to believe in some fantasy nonsense the evidence of which is nil. It is not faith to assume that one particular unknown mechanism is fully in line with 237923734892343 known mechanisms involving the same fundamental forces and components.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

The Omkar holy spirit guided me into faith. Special revelation revealed all other gods including the Abrahamic variety are false gods!

@Factfinder ;  Interesting...enjoy your religion....I choose Jesus.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Lot's of words...so your faith is in Atheism, not Christianity, yes?

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

The Omkar holy spirit guided me into faith. Special revelation revealed all other gods including the Abrahamic variety are false gods!

@Factfinder ;  Interesting...enjoy your religion....I choose Jesus.

Wati, didn't you say he chose you and this why you are here doing his work, I.E warning people? Bruh, you really need to make up your mind. 

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

Factfinder said:

@ZeusAres42

Do you have the name of that book you're reading? Naturally it written from a perspective I can identify with.

oh yeah, sorry. He: "Buch von John W. Loftus." https://www.amazon.com/How-Defend-Christian-Faith-Atheist/dp/163431056X

It's also not a satirical book funnily enough lol. 

Cool thanks.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

So you believe in a Creator named Omkar? Did he manifest in Time and walk among the people..is there documentation of this...wow...this is truly interesting...so you do believe?

Of course I believe. I read it in a book. Then I looked outside my Window, saw the sun, the trees, the moon and all other natural things. That is sufficent evidence for me. Omkar God confirmed. Satire!

The Omkar holy spirit guided me into faith. Special revelation revealed all other gods including the Abrahamic variety are false gods!

@Factfinder ;  Interesting...enjoy your religion....I choose Jesus.

Wati, didn't you say he chose you and this why you are here doing his work, I.E warning people? Bruh, you really need to make up your mind. 

@ZeusAres42 ; Jesus gave His life for you and for me and welcomes us both to honor Him by faith and live in forgiveness and peace forever....what will you say to Jesus?

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus gave His life for you and for me and welcomes us both to honor Him by faith in live in forgiveness and peace forever....what will you say to Jesus?

The Jews don't agree. What will you say to the true messiah? 

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; Lot's of words...so your faith is in Atheism, not Christianity, yes?

No. I just have grown out of believing in Santa and other fantasy creatures. My "faith" is in rational thinking, if it is in anything at all: it is in the process, not its outcomes.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus gave His life for you and for me and welcomes us both to honor Him by faith in live in forgiveness and peace forever....what will you say to Jesus?

The Jews don't agree. What will you say to the true messiah? 

Jesus is Messiah...the Jews thought Messiah came to liberate Israel from Rome but the true Messiah came to liberate the heart and soul from Satan. What will say to Jesus when you step over into Eternity?

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; Lot's of words...so your faith is in Atheism, not Christianity, yes?

No. I just have grown out of believing in Santa and other fantasy creatures. My "faith" is in rational thinking, if it is in anything at all: it is in the process, not its outcomes.

@MayCaesar ....so you now believe in evolution by faith?

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

My statement explicitly says that no, I do not.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

My statement explicitly says that no, I do not.

@MayCaesar ; Is there a God?

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No.

@MayCaesar ;  Can you prove there is no God?

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No.

@MayCaesar ; so then, you deny our Creator by faith?

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus is Messiah...the Jews thought Messiah came to liberate Israel from Rome but the true Messiah came to liberate the heart and soul from Satan. What will say to Jesus when you step over into Eternity?

The assertion that Jesus is the Messiah, tasked with liberating hearts and souls from Satan, fundamentally misconstrues the Jewish concept of the Messiah and introduces theological constructs that are alien to Jewish thought. This perspective not only diverges from Jewish expectations but also imposes a Christian interpretation onto Jewish scriptures and prophetic traditions, which is historically and theologically untenable.

Firstly, the Jewish Messiah is anticipated as a worldly leader, a descendant of King David, who will achieve specific, tangible goals: the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the ingathering of the Jewish diaspora to Israel, and the establishment of global peace and divine worship. These are not metaphorical aspirations but concrete objectives that have not been fulfilled by Jesus. Thus, from a Jewish standpoint, the claim of Jesus' messiahship is categorically unconvincing.

Moreover, the notion of a spiritual liberation from Satan as the Messiah's mission introduces concepts that are largely foreign to Jewish theology. Satan in Judaism is not a rebellious, evil force opposing God but rather a figure that plays a role within the divine administration of justice, testing individuals' righteousness. The Jewish understanding of evil and sin does not center on a cosmic battle against a personal devil but on the moral choices individuals make in their daily lives.

Additionally, framing the Messiah's purpose in terms of individual soul salvation reflects a particular Christian soteriology that is incompatible with Jewish thought. Judaism focuses on communal redemption and the betterment of the world through adherence to the Torah and mitzvot (commandments). Salvation in Judaism is collective, historical, and this-worldly, rather than centered on post-mortem individual destinies.

The question, 'What will you say to Jesus when you step over into Eternity?' presupposes a Christian eschatological framework that does not resonate with Jewish beliefs about the afterlife. Jewish eschatology is varied and complex but does not typically involve personal encounters with Jesus or criteria based on accepting him as the Messiah for eternal salvation.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Jesus is Messiah...the Jews thought Messiah came to liberate Israel from Rome but the true Messiah came to liberate the heart and soul from Satan. What will say to Jesus when you step over into Eternity?

The assertion that Jesus is the Messiah, tasked with liberating hearts and souls from Satan, fundamentally misconstrues the Jewish concept of the Messiah and introduces theological constructs that are alien to Jewish thought. This perspective not only diverges from Jewish expectations but also imposes a Christian interpretation onto Jewish scriptures and prophetic traditions, which is historically and theologically untenable.

Firstly, the Jewish Messiah is anticipated as a worldly leader, a descendant of King David, who will achieve specific, tangible goals: the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, the ingathering of the Jewish diaspora to Israel, and the establishment of global peace and divine worship. These are not metaphorical aspirations but concrete objectives that have not been fulfilled by Jesus. Thus, from a Jewish standpoint, the claim of Jesus' messiahship is categorically unconvincing.

Moreover, the notion of a spiritual liberation from Satan as the Messiah's mission introduces concepts that are largely foreign to Jewish theology. Satan in Judaism is not a rebellious, evil force opposing God but rather a figure that plays a role within the divine administration of justice, testing individuals' righteousness. The Jewish understanding of evil and sin does not center on a cosmic battle against a personal devil but on the moral choices individuals make in their daily lives.

Additionally, framing the Messiah's purpose in terms of individual soul salvation reflects a particular Christian soteriology that is incompatible with Jewish thought. Judaism focuses on communal redemption and the betterment of the world through adherence to the Torah and mitzvot (commandments). Salvation in Judaism is collective, historical, and this-worldly, rather than centered on post-mortem individual destinies.

The question, 'What will you say to Jesus when you step over into Eternity?' presupposes a Christian eschatological framework that does not resonate with Jewish beliefs about the afterlife. Jewish eschatology is varied and complex but does not typically involve personal encounters with Jesus or criteria based on accepting him as the Messiah for eternal salvation.

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @GnosticChirtian

Jewish thought is not the foundation relevant to the Messiah or His purpose for eternity or Time. The Jew and Israelite were a conveyance, a bridge to an eschatological imperative. Israel's children were given sanctuary and blessing and sustenance due their eschatological responsibilities but their concept of Messiah or their future in the Kingdom were and are wholly contingent upon faith in Yeshua as Messiah, Elohim, Creator. Israel ultimately failed.

Israel's children failed to differentiate between Messiah's First and Second Advent. Messiah's First Advent was as a suffering Lamb for the sins of the World; Messiah's Second Advent is as a conquering Lion from Judah. It was prophetic ignorance on the part of Israel that led to their demise as an ordained people who would be ministers of the Gospel and the Great Commission. Israel failed and broke covenant in unbelief.

Israel's children had in their possession via Torah every ounce of evidence concerning the mission of the Messiah; this, from prophetic utterances to types, shadows, examples, Christophany's. Israel's children failed to see, failed to believe, rejected their Messiah, murdered Him upon a tree, rejected the Gospel, rejected the Great Commission, demanded that Messiah's blood be upon them and their children...Israel's children alienated themselves from Yahweh/Elohim and broke covenant as per Deuteronomy 28. 

Israel's children refused to believe that Messiah would redeem by faith but Israel's children insisted that they could attain righteousness with the Father through vain attempts to keep Torah Law...they failed here as well. 

When I step over into Eternity and I see Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), if I'm able to speak in my awe...I will simply utter while prostrate..."Thank you."

 

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No

@ZeusAres42 ; @MayCaesar ;  Every atheist denies our Creator by faith; they have no evidence suggesting that our supernatural creation manifest through naturalistic means but that somehow, supernatural design is at play; therefore, nature itself testifies to a Creator yet the atheist denies this when extant evidence for a Creator presents itself 24/7/365; otherwise, an alternative explanation would be present; therefore, considering what is observed by the senses and due an absence of an alternative, in order to say there is NO possibility for a Creator can only be uttered by FAITH.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the boundless void that predated existence, where chaos reigned as a formless, undifferentiated whole, the universe lay dormant within the cosmic egg. Within this egg, Pangu, the first being and the architect of the cosmos, awoke. For 18,000 years, he grew, his mighty form separating the chaos into the contrasting elements of Yin and Yang, the earth and the sky. As Pangu labored to push them apart, the heavens rose, and the earth thickened, setting the stage for the world as we know it.

Upon Pangu’s death, his breath transformed into the wind and clouds, his voice into thunder, and his eyes into the sun and moon. The mountains and rivers were sculpted from his flesh and blood, and from his hair and beard grew the forests and plants. Even in death, Pangu’s body nurtured the world, giving rise to its myriad features and phenomena.

From the remnants of this primal creation, Nuwa, the goddess of life and creation, took upon herself the task of populating the earth. Fashioning beings from the yellow earth, she breathed life into them, creating the first humans. These beings, endowed with the spark of divinity, were the ancestors of all humankind, born of the earth itself and nurtured by the deities of the heavens.

Nuwa’s compassion for her creations knew no bounds. When disaster struck, tearing a rift in the heavens, she melted stones of five vibrant colors to repair the sky, restoring harmony to the cosmos. She also created the rainbow, bridging the earth and the sky as a symbol of hope and connection.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the timeless expanse before the dawn of the present world, the Mayan gods contemplated the creation of a being who could worship them and maintain the balance of the cosmos. The gods had already attempted to create such beings, first from mud and then from wood, but these creations failed to honor the gods as intended. The mud beings dissolved, and the wooden ones were devoid of souls, leading to their destruction in a great flood sent by the gods in disappointment.

Undeterred by their previous failures, the gods convened once more in the darkness, seeking to perfect their creation. It was then that they turned to maize, the sacred crop that sustained life. From this maize, they crafted the flesh and blood of the first true humans, beings capable of thought, speech, and reverence for the divine. These maize-made humans were the first to successfully fulfill the gods' desire for worshippers, establishing a reciprocal relationship between the divine and the mortal realms.

The creation of these humans was not without challenge. The hero twins, Hunahpu and Xbalanque, descendants of the maize god, played a pivotal role in shaping the fate of humanity and the world. Their legendary adventures in the underworld, their battles against the lords of Xibalba, and their eventual triumphs were instrumental in securing the place of humans in the cosmos. Their deeds ensured that the sun would rise, that maize would grow, and that life would flourish.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the time before time, there was only the dark, chaotic waters of Nun. From these primordial depths, a mound of land emerged, and upon it stood Atum, the first god, who brought himself into being. Atum, the embodiment of the creator, basked in the solitude of the newly formed world. Seeking companionship and purpose, he gave birth to two children through his own power, Shu, the god of air, and Tefnut, the goddess of moisture.

Shu and Tefnut ventured into the vastness of Nun, leaving Atum alone on the primeval mound. Concerned for his children, Atum sent his eye to find them. Upon their return, he wept tears of joy, and from these tears, humans were born, populating the earth below.

Shu and Tefnut gave birth to two more deities, Geb, the earth god, and Nut, the sky goddess, who were eternally separated by their father Shu, defining the boundary between the heavens and the earth. From the union of Geb and Nut, came forth Osiris, Isis, Set, and Nephthys, gods who played key roles in the stories of life, death, and the afterlife that are central to Egyptian mythology.

Osiris, as the first ruler of Egypt, brought civilization to the human race, teaching them agriculture, laws, and worship. His brother Set, envious of his power, tricked and murdered Osiris, scattering his body across Egypt. Isis, Osiris's devoted wife, reassembled his body and restored him to life, leading to the birth of Horus, the falcon-headed god. Horus would eventually avenge his father, defeating Set and establishing himself as the rightful ruler of the land.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the beginning, there was only the primordial waters, mingled together in a formless chaos. These waters were personified by two gods: Apsu, the sweet water, and Tiamat, the salt water. From their union emerged the younger gods, who filled the cosmos with noise and chaos, disturbing the peace of Apsu and Tiamat.

Distressed by the tumult, Apsu conspired to destroy the younger gods, but his plot was revealed. Ea (Enki), the god of wisdom and water, learned of Apsu’s intentions and used his magic to put Apsu to sleep, killing him and establishing his abode upon Apsu's body, thus creating the first order from chaos.

Tiamat, enraged by the murder of Apsu and the arrogance of the younger gods, raised an army of monsters led by her new consort, Kingu, to wage war against them. The gods, terrified of Tiamat’s vengeance, sought a champion to defend them. Marduk, Ea's son, a god associated with water, vegetation, judgment, and magic, stepped forward, agreeing to fight Tiamat on the condition that he be granted supremacy among the gods.

Armed with fierce winds and the Tablet of Destinies, Marduk battled Tiamat, capturing the chaotic waters with his net, and slaying her with his arrows. From Tiamat’s divided body, Marduk created the heavens and the earth, establishing order in the universe. He then created the Euphrates and Tigris rivers from Tiamat’s tears and established Babylon as the center of divine rule.

To serve the gods and maintain the order Marduk had established, humanity was created from the blood of Kingu, Tiamat’s second consort and the leader of her army. Thus, humans were tasked with the service of the gods, to uphold the order of the universe and to participate in the cycle of life and death, which mirrored the eternal struggle between order and chaos.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Before the present world, there were four other ages, each ending in catastrophe. These ages were created and destroyed by the gods, who then sought to create a new age, the Fifth Sun, under which we now live. However, this new world lacked a sun, leaving it in darkness, and so the gods gathered to bring light to this new era.

In the city of Teotihuacan, the gods deliberated on who would have the honor of becoming the new sun. Two volunteered: Tecuciztecatl, a wealthy and proud god, and Nanahuatzin, a humble and poor deity afflicted with sores. To prepare themselves, they underwent penance and sacrifice, casting themselves into a sacred fire to be reborn as the sun and the moon.

Tecuciztecatl hesitated four times before the fire, showing his fear and pride, while Nanahuatzin, demonstrating his courage and humility, threw himself into the flames without hesitation. Ashamed, Tecuciztecatl finally followed. From the fire, Nanahuatzin rose as the Fifth Sun, shining brightly, while Tecuciztecatl became the moon, his light dimmer as a reflection of his hesitation.

However, the newly created sun did not move across the sky. The gods realized that more sacrifice was needed to set it in motion. Thus, they sacrificed themselves, giving their blood and lives to nourish the sun. It was then decreed that humanity must also offer sacrifices to ensure the sun's continued movement and the survival of the world.

The creation of humanity in this Fifth Sun was the work of Quetzalcoatl, the Feathered Serpent, who journeyed to the underworld to retrieve the bones of the previous ages' humans. With the help of Cihuacoatl, he ground the bones and mixed them with his blood, giving life to the new human race, who were tasked with honoring the gods through rituals and sacrifices to maintain the balance of the cosmos.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the boundless void that predated existence, where chaos reigned as a formless, undifferentiated whole, the universe lay dormant within the cosmic egg. Within this egg, Pangu, the first being and the architect of the cosmos, awoke. For 18,000 years, he grew, his mighty form separating the chaos into the contrasting elements of Yin and Yang, the earth and the sky. As Pangu labored to push them apart, the heavens rose, and the earth thickened, setting the stage for the world as we know it.

Upon Pangu’s death, his breath transformed into the wind and clouds, his voice into thunder, and his eyes into the sun and moon. The mountains and rivers were sculpted from his flesh and blood, and from his hair and beard grew the forests and plants. Even in death, Pangu’s body nurtured the worlgiving rise to its myriad features and phenomena.

From the remnants of this primal creation, Nuwa, the goddess of life and creation, took upon herself the task of populating the earth. Fashioning beings from the yellow earth, she breathed life into them, creating the first humans. These beings, endowed with the spark of divinity, were the ancestors of all humankind, born of the earth itself and nurtured by the deities of the heavens.

Nuwa’s compassion for her creations knew no bounds. When disaster struck, tearing a rift in the heavens, she melted stones of five vibrant colors to @RickeyHoltsclaw

In the ethereal void before existence took shape, when the heavens and earth were indistinguishable, the Japanese deities Izanagi and Izanami stood upon the floating bridge of heaven. Gazing into the chaotic waters below, they stirred the primeval ocean with the jeweled spear Ame-no-Nuboko, gifted by the celestial kami. As they lifted the spear, drops of salty brine fell and coalesced to form the first island of the Japanese archipelago, Onogoro-shima, a divine act marking the dawn of creation.

Descending from the heavens, Izanagi and Izanami made this island their home, establishing a pillar around which they performed a celestial ritual, thus beginning their work of crafting the land. Their union brought forth the many islands of Japan and a host of kami, spirits embodying natural phenomena, laying the foundations of the lush and vibrant world.

However, in their divine task of creation, tragedy struck. Izanami, giving birth to the fire kami, suffered mortal wounds and departed to Yomi, the shadowy land of the dead. Heartbroken, Izanagi ventured into the depths of Yomi in a perilous quest to reunite with his beloved. Yet, the reunion was not to be; the rules of Yomi forbade Izanami's return, leading to a poignant and eternal separation between the two.

Upon his return, Izanagi, seeking purification, bathed in the waters of a stream. From this act of cleansing, new deities emerged, including Amaterasu, the radiant sun goddess; Tsukuyomi, the somber moon god; and Susanoo, the tempestuous storm god. 

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the verdant realms of ancient Slavic lands, where dense forests whisper secrets of old and rivers flow with tales untold, the world's creation is a saga of divine essence, natural forces, and the harmonious coexistence of all beings. Unlike narratives that speak of creation ex nihilo, Slavic mythology presents a cosmos born of primordial unity, where the elements themselves are suffused with sacred life, and gods walk among the aspen groves and along the riverbanks.

At the heart of this creation myth stands Rod, the supreme deity, the progenitor of gods and the source of all life. From him sprang the primal gods, embodying the vital forces of nature: Dazhbog, the sun god, bringing warmth and light to the world; Perun, the thunderous lord of storms and warrior of the skies; Veles, the shapeshifting god of the earth, cattle, and the underworld; and Mokosh, the revered mother goddess, protector of women and guardian of fertility.

The world itself was envisioned as a living, breathing entity, centered upon the World Tree, its roots delving deep into the underworld, its trunk standing firm in the mortal realm, and its branches reaching into the heavens, connecting the three tiers of the cosmos in an eternal bond. This cosmic tree was not only the axis of all existence but also the pathway for gods and spirits between the worlds, embodying the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the heart of a cosmos yet unformed, where the vast expanse of Chaos reigned supreme, the seeds of the world lay dormant, awaiting the touch of the divine. From this primordial chaos, the first gods emerged, not through battle or the demise of giants, but through the harmonious confluence of divine will and nature's elements. Among these deities, Jupiter, the king of gods, his might and wisdom unmatched, took the helm of this nascent pantheon.

With his siblings Neptune and Pluto, Jupiter divided the universe into three realms: the heavens for himself, the seas for Neptune, and the underworld for Pluto. Together, they laid the foundation of the world and the order of all things celestial and terrestrial. From the union of the earth and sky, other gods and beings sprang forth, each embodying the vital forces of nature and human life, from Mars, the god of war, to Venus, the goddess of love and beauty, and Minerva, the goddess of wisdom and craft.

In this burgeoning world, the gods interacted with humanity, not as distant overseers but as integral figures in the lives and fates of men and women. They bestowed gifts upon humanity, such as the arts of agriculture from Ceres, and the laws of society from Jupiter himself, who also sent Mercury as his messenger to guide and aid mortals.

The creation of Rome, a pivotal moment in the annals of the gods and men, was shepherded by the divine. Romulus and Remus, descendants of Mars and raised by a she-wolf, founded the city that would become the center of an empire destined to leave an indelible mark on history. The gods watched over Rome, protecting it, guiding its leaders, and sometimes testing its people, ensuring its place in the eternal narrative of the cosmos.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the verdant, mystical lands of the Celts, where rolling hills whisper ancient secrets and the sea sings of timeless legends, the fabric of the world was not born from the void but was ever-present, a realm where the physical and the spiritual merge as one. In this enchanted cosmos, the gods and goddesses, the Tuatha Dé Danann, emerged not from chaos but from the very essence of nature itself, their beings intertwined with the elements, the land, and the cycles of life and death.

Among these divine beings, the Dagda, with his cauldron of abundance and club that could both kill and restore life, ruled as a father figure, a protector of the tribe and guarantor of bounty. His harp commanded the seasons, ensuring the harmony of the world. The Morrigan, a goddess of battle, fate, and sovereignty, wove the destinies of men and gods alike, her presence foretelling the outcome of war and the fate of kingdoms.

Brigid, revered as a goddess of the hearth, healing, and poetry, kindled the flames of inspiration and protection, her sacred fires illuminating the dark of winter and heralding the rebirth of spring. Lugh, master of crafts, patron of warriors and kings, embodied the sun's radiant energy, his festival Lughnasadh marking the beginning of the harvest season, a time of gathering and celebration in honor of his gifts.

In the ancient, resplendent lands of Persia, under the boundless azure sky, the cosmos was brought forth not from chaos but through the singular will of Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, the embodiment of all that is good, just, and true. In Zoroastrianism, creation is a deliberate act of divine benevolence, a world conceived in perfect order (Asha), where every element serves a purpose in the grand design of existence.

Ahura Mazda, in His wisdom, fashioned the world as a beautiful and harmonious place, instilling in it the Eternal Flame, a symbol of His divine light and the life force that animates all beings. The sky, the earth, the waters, and all living creatures were created to reside in this perfect order, each contributing to the maintenance of Asha, the cosmic law that governs the universe.

Yet, into this world of light and order, opposition arose in the form of Angra Mainyu (Ahriman), the Destructive Spirit, who sought to mar Ahura Mazda's creation with darkness, deceit, and discord. Thus began the cosmic dualism that defines Zoroastrian belief—a perpetual struggle between the forces of good and evil, order and chaos, truth and deception.

Humanity, created by Ahura Mazda with the gift of free will, plays a pivotal role in this cosmic drama. Men and women are tasked with choosing between the path of Asha, aligning themselves with the Wise Lord and promoting truth, righteousness, and harmony, or succumbing to the deceptions of Angra Mainyu, sowing discord and destruction.

The great prophet Zarathustra (Zoroaster), through his divine revelations, brought the teachings of Ahura Mazda to the people, instructing them in the ways of worship, prayer, and the sacred fire, which cleanses and purifies, serving as a beacon of divine presence in the physical world. He taught of the Chinvat Bridge, the span that separates the world of the living from the House of Song, where the souls of the righteous find eternal peace and joy in the presence of Ahura Mazda.

Through rituals, prayers, and the observance of the sacred fire, Zoroastrians honor Ahura Mazda, seeking to uphold Asha in their lives and the world. The celebration of Nowruz, the New Year, symbolizes the renewal of the world, the triumph of light over darkness, and the recommitment of humanity to the path of goodness and truth as ordained by Ahura Mazda.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In the dawn of existence, there was an expanse of perfect stillness, a realm of unmanifest potential known as Akasha. This primordial space, infinite and serene, held within it the seeds of cosmic creation. From the subtle interplay of the elemental forces dwelling in Akasha—the fiery Agni from the south and the cooling Varuna from the north—emerged the first spark of life, the celestial being Prajapati.

Prajapati, the progenitor, was a being of immense power and wisdom, embodying the creative essence that would give birth to the cosmos. Alongside him, from the froth of elemental fusion, arose Kamadhenu, the divine bovine, whose nurturing presence would sustain the nascent universe.

As Prajapati pondered the vast emptiness, he resolved to fill it with life. From his will and meditation, he fashioned the world. The mountains rose from his bones, sturdy and unwavering; the rivers flowed from his veins, nourishing the land; the sky stretched across the cosmos, a vast canopy formed from his breath, sheltering the world below.

Yet, in this act of creation, a balance had to be maintained. The giants—primeval forces of nature, raw and untamed—sprang forth from Prajapati's shadow. They roamed the earth, embodiments of the chaotic energy that had existed before order.

It was then that the gods, the Devas, emerged from Prajapati's mind and spirit, beings of light and guardians of the cosmic order. Led by Indra, the king of gods, armed with his thunderbolt, and accompanied by his brothers, Agni and Vayu, they sought to bring harmony to the world. In a great battle that shook the heavens and the earth, the Devas confronted the giants, subduing their wild nature and integrating them into the fabric of the world.

With the world thus balanced between order and chaos, creation and destruction, Prajapati and the Devas established the rhythms of nature, the cycles of day and night, the change of seasons, ensuring the world's vitality and the continuation of life.

From Prajapati's sacrifice and the Devas' valor, the world as we know it came into being—a place of endless diversity and boundless potential, where every creature, every element, every breath is a testament to the original act of creation, to the eternal dance of Akasha, Agni, and Varuna, and to the wisdom and might of the celestial beings who shaped the cosmos.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

Wrong again. Why do you insist on looking like some foolish authority on atheism? Unbelievers of your god have no faith in it because there is no basis to believe. On the other hand the diligence of falsifying models presented in scientific fields and the numerous discoveries of the past and still ongoing give enough reason to believe in the sincerity of their efforts. Geez, I know you must give up reason in order to believe your indoctrination, but just try for a minute. 

ZeusAres42

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

Stop misdefining Atheism. It's simply a lack of a belief in a diety due to insufficent evidence. Nothing less, nothing more. If there is no belief there is no way there can be faith. Faith in religious context is belief without evidence and/or pretending to know about stuff which you don't know. It really is that simple. Science doesn't pretend to know things that they don't know. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; And your point is? There are many smarter than the atheist who sought to explain our existence in Time and use same for political power and personal gain but you will NOT find a comprehensive, cohesive, understandable, digestible, eschatologically sound, explanation for our Creation and our purpose in Time and in Eternity but the Canon of Scripture and Jesus as Messiah. There is no other Text that contains the supernatural words of our Creator but the Canon with historical verification and present day reality in fulfillment...on the Canon and ONLY JESUS.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Since science can not reproduce the claim that life came from non-life, it is obvious faith is involved, because science suggests that isn't possible.

Science suggest it isn't known. Faith suggest it is known without knowing. See the difference?

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

Wrong again. Why do you insist on looking like some foolish authority on atheism? Unbelievers of your god have no faith in it because there is no basis to believe. On the other hand the diligence of falsifying models presented in scientific fields and the numerous discoveries of the past and still ongoing give enough reason to believe in the sincerity of their efforts. Geez, I know you must give up reason in order to believe your indoctrination, but just try for a minute. 

@Factfinder ; @ZeusAres

Atheism is under the authority of Satan...look at its fruit...sexual perversion, infanticide. You will know them by their fruit (Matthew 7:15-20). Science offers you NOTHING but speculation...it cannot offer anything concerning origin other than theories...nothing that adheres to scientific methodology.  It is ONLY by reason and logic that one comes to know the Canon as the Authority concerning our origin, our purpose.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Says who? You? Your sctripture that you adhere to wheras others who adhere to opposing scriptures? Your schollars that had you indoctrinated? Or perhaps it was just nature that you saw it right? Just like all those other beleiviers of the the multitude of relgious traditions will also claim! Hmm. Perhaps God himself should fire all those who have failed him right? Or perhaps he loves all this entertainment eh?

MayCaesar

ZeusAres42 said:

just_sayin said:

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

Stop misdefining Atheism. It's simply a lack of a belief in a diety due to insufficent evidence. Nothing less, nothing more. If there is no belief there is no way there can be faith. Faith in religious context is belief without evidence and/or pretending to know about stuff which you don't know. It really is that simple. Science doesn't pretend to know things that they don't know. 

I am starting to think that that is a necessary part of being a strong religious believer: strawmanning all arguments against the religion. I do not think I have ever met someone who would not be open to changing their mind on religion, and who would engage with my or other non-believers' arguments honestly.

At the same time, I have had incredible conversations with religious people who were much more critical about their own beliefs. I can talk to someone who believes that there is god, but is not sure if their view of that god are correct, or if the holy book their religion endorses was actually written by god or is just a product of human mind. It is just these fundamentalists who believe in things the evidence for which is nil, who have to wear distortion glasses at all times, so every time they come across an argument that is at odds with their position, they do not actually see the argument, but its distorted version that is easy to debunk.

This particular fellow has been putting all kinds of words into my mouth for months now. Whenever I tell him that I do not believe what he says I do, he just says that I do believe it, I just pretend not to... There is no progress to be made with someone as close-minded as that.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Says who? You? Your sctripture that you adhere to wheras others who adhere to opposing scriptures? Your schollars that had you indoctrinated? Or perhaps it was just nature that you saw it right? Just like all those other beleiviers of the the multitude of relgious traditions will also claim! Hmm. Perhaps God himself should fire all those who have failed him right? Or perhaps he loves all this entertainment eh?

ZeusAres42  @Factfinder ;  Why not perform the study; after all, it's your Eternity and your soul? I read the Scriptures personally...I believe what is presented by the Holy Spirit. Have you studied the Scriptures with fervor...as if your life depended upon them...because it does? God loves those who honor Him by faith and serve Him with a right heart...they belong to Him....you should seek this wisdom by engrossing yourself in the Scriptures...begin your journey with the "Gospel of John"...you'll be amazed at the change IF you'll approach the Scriptures with a sincere curiosity and willingness to believe.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

ZeusAres42 said:

just_sayin said:

The atheist believes science can solve the problem - that's faith and a science of the gaps argument.  Go ahead and join with May on TikTok singing 'even when science says its impossible, trust me, science can make it possible."  Call it 'the Song of Atheistic faith".

Stop misdefining Atheism. It's simply a lack of a belief in a diety due to insufficent evidence. Nothing less, nothing more. If there is no belief there is no way there can be faith. Faith in religious context is belief without evidence and/or pretending to know about stuff which you don't know. It really is that simple. Science doesn't pretend to know things that they don't know. 

I am starting to think that that is a necessary part of being a strong religious believer: strawmanning all arguments against the religion. I do not think I have ever met someone who would not be open to changing their mind on religion, and who would engage with my or other non-believers' arguments honestly.

At the same time, I have had incredible conversations with religious people who were much more critical about their own beliefs. I can talk to someone who believes that there is god, but is not sure if their view of that god are correct, or if the holy book their religion endorses was actually written by god or is just a product of human mind. It is just these fundamentalists who believe in things the evidence for which is nil, who have to wear distortion glasses at all times, so every time they come across an argument that is at odds with their position, they do not actually see the argument, but its distorted version that is easy to debunk.

This particular fellow has been putting all kinds of words into my mouth for months now. Whenever I tell him that I do not believe what he says I do, he just says that I do believe it, I just pretend not to... There is no progress to be made with someone as close-minded as that.

@MayCaesar ; @ZeusAres ; @Factfinder ; Atheism is a religion based upon faith that there is no Creator.