Is marriage an outdated institution?

RexTheDog01

Argument Topic: Marriage an argument for..

marriage is an outdated institution, it was created by yee of old to control the moral principles of the population exactly as you have said. effectively it had a purpose back then but its purpose is in question now so we have to look at what marriage has become to continue to justify its existence and or modify its interpretation to suit the needs of today. so in its most basic terms marriage is a union of partners that guarantees sexual exclusivity as well as making a best attempt to guarantee love on in to the future via contractual obligation and public commitment to each partners vows. This is a public display of will or intention to commit to will, one gathers their most important friends and family in some cases even their enemies and rivals to such occasion inviting them to future judgment should commitment made not be honored for the life time of the contract.

in these basic terms I believe marriage is suitable for a modern world as a way of connecting with people, falling in love with somebody and committing to that love via the cold uncaring nature of contract law, what better display of love than hanging the threat of financial ruin over your own heads should that love fail to persist. By acknowledging the absurdly cold clinical nature of modern marriages in practice we can begin to understand where are culture is at in the need for us to have such precise contracts regarding love, we are a fallen society on our way down, staggering in to the abyss of censorship, echo chambers of hate despair and all out war portioned out to the populous by an increasingly aristocratic and established elite few as the devour all of the wealth and humanities collectives dreams along with it, we are at the stage now where they are chewing at they tables legs in their greed and need to a mass absolute power and dominion over us the friendly and decent.

it is in their domain we find ourselves enslaved to their contract law, you are born you are ID'ed you are given a 'Birth Certificate' at your 'Birth' which serves as your manifest on the high seas of earth, you want to 'Pass-port' you will need your 'Birth' certificate for that just like any sea faring vessel with its own birth certificate you set sail in to the world only to find another ship just like you, you fall for the ship and decide to get married signaling to the port authority we will need a marriage certificate as our valuable cargo is now joined and thus worth its combined value to merchants and sellers, and it is this combined value that a marriage affords it partners when the seek finance, credit and creditability, it is in joint income where you will find the bulk of loan transactions, jointed accounts, mortgages belonging to two people with the same bank account and combined income.

again this is all contract law, some parts of it maritime contract law which is interesting in and of itself as the elites see us as no more than assets belonging to state different argument maybe for another time.

so where is the love? the meaning? again its in the joined at the hip type love marriage forcibly produces, in interlinking futures in to a combined dream in both the physically and the willed outcome, which in marriage compels both partners towards their committed to goals at point of marriage. in this view marriage can bee seen as a hypnotic spell cast over its partners a mental feedback loop that perpetuates the coupled partners towards a combined goal committing to the stability of movement towards the goal for the better or worse locked in contract and until death the binding resolution. 

A contract such as marriage is needed for love to be committed to in any real terms, the complexity of what better and worse can mean requires detailed plans that offer favorable outcomes, those not married pay a significant financial penalty for such status however they gain the enjoyment of a variety of partners, for some this is preferable and there is no reason to force marriage with use of unfavorable financial conditions or credit status, this penalty should be considered and balanced to equality with marriage status so as to be fair to all, to each their own way of living free to do so, instead our elites would prefer us preoccupied with competition amongst each out for status instead of affording us all equal status, not that it would need affording where people to realize their collective physically mass verses that of the snake like elites, but a married couple sure do mess with Frank and Martha your gonna need a tag team cause they will go down swinging for that white picket fence house in the burbs.

id say its good to have marriage, why not, I mean we have every other form of love for better or worse why not throw marriage in to the fire and just enjoy the heat and the camp sing-song instead

Barnardot

@RexTheDog01 ;why not throw marriage in to the fire and just enjoy the heat and the camp sing-song instead

So when you do that would you be singing Kum by ah?

Barnardot

@MayCaesar I think marriage has lost its way in modern civilized society but for the better really. A lot of that crap about love and obey him till death do you part just dont make the cut nower days. The only place for contracts is when your doing business between two parties who might be completely opposites to each other.
When you have a couple falling in love and building a life together it is there morals that guide them not some meaningless out dated contract that dictates what they can and cant do in the privacy of there own kitchen.

Joeseph

I don't think it's outdated at all there's a practicality in getting married as in its a contract protected by law which was necessary in times past , its not necessary now but I think its the whole committment thing in front of witnesses gives it its universal appeal .

I've rarely come across a woman who didn't find the whole wedding day ceremony and all the trimmings as being something truly desirable and wished for.

I think practicality comes into iy also as in sharing the workload,  finances , bills / expenses , then there's the companionship / sharing and caring aspects. 

Most people I know are married and most have remained so , the model has stood the test of time.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; @Barnadot ; @21CenturyIconoclast ; @Factfinder ; @Jack ; @Joeseph ; Marriage was ordained by our Creator "In the beginning" and this divine institution is relevant for one "man" and one "woman" constrained by Time and physics as marriage is integral to Elohim's eschatological plan concerning the defeat of Satan via the Gospel ordained "before Time began" (1 John 3:8b; 2 Timothy 1:8-10).

MayCaesar

@RexTheDog01

See, I think that there is a fundamental difference between private and government-imposed contracts. In a private contract two people come together and agree on the terms of the interaction - for instance, I promise to deliver 10 lb of apples to you by next Sunday, and in exchange you allow me to come any time I want to your farm and pick some strawberries. The contract exists purely between the two individuals (unless they choose to insure it by involving a third party), and it is up to them and them alone to uphold the terms of the contract.

Marriage, birth certificate, SSN, et cetera are different. These are documents/contracts issued by the government in order to track and control your personality. SSN, for instance, is a prerequisite for being able to work most jobs, and when applying for it, you give the government a lot of fairly personal information. The government then has your location and enough information on you to track you down easily should you relocate. In these sense, these documents/contracts are, at least partially, imposed on you.

So I am not sure if it is fair to consider marriage as just an extra option that people can choose to use or not use. First, many countries impose restrictions on individuals outside of marriage: non-marital sex is commonly outlawed in Muslim-majority countries, and most countries have alimony laws applying to cases where a child's parents are divorced. Furthermore, many grant married couples various tax and social benefits, ones that unmarried couples do not enjoy, therefore being indirectly penalized for not being married.

If marriage was a purely voluntary and symbolic act, then my question would not really apply. It would then work similarly to a prenuptial agreement where both parties would explicitly consent to a set of terms. For example, both partners may desire stability: they want to know that for the next 15 years the other partner will not leave the arrangement, unless they are willing to compensate the other party properly. Say, if one of the partners chooses to break the marriage, then they will owe the other partner 50% of their net income for the next 15 years. The benefit would be the ability of both partners to make long-term financial plans - they could buy a house 5 years down the line and know that for the next 10 years they will be able to live in this house no matter what happens, while enjoying the benefits of splitting the expenses.

It would also help with raising children: no matter what anyone says, being a single mother or a single father is very-very hard, and detrimental to the child's development. People who want to have children could temporarily put the children's well-being above their own and vow to stay together until the children grow up even if they grow to absolutely hate each other.

@Joeseph

I suppose there is something to say for commitment. Empirically it seems that committing to something before the people whose opinion matters to you makes the success of the endeavor much more likely. If you want to exercise every morning for the next year, it is much easier to do so by telling some people that you will do that and then showing them your daily track record on Strava, than to do it purely on your own (and knowing that, if you cheat once or twice, nobody will hold you accountable for that). And holding an official ceremony and signing a document adds weight to the commitment. Much like soldiers swear loyalty to the country: it is a powerful vow breaking which becomes psychologically uncomfortable, and also becomes a betrayal of your fellow soldiers.

I guess it is the same as signing up an employment contract versus just agreeing to work together. If you just talk to your potential boss and agree, "Well, I will work for you, and you will regularly send me paychecks", then there are a lot of corners that either of you can cut. Having a paper in place that clearly says what you and your boss are going to do makes for a very different arrangement, one in which you can rely on each other, knowing well that failing to uphold the terms of the contract has heavy costs.

I personally am very sensitive to anything that I feel invades my independence and privacy. I highly value the ability to do whatever I want with my life and not having to justify my choices to anyone, and having a significant other in one's life definitely adds a highly constraining new variable to it. Signing a contract binding us to each other "forever" is that multiplied.

But, of course, there are benefits and drawbacks to it, and people also change. 5 years ago I firmly believed that I "did not need anyone" and the idea of always being single appealed strongly to me. Nowadays I feel that having someone to take care of, being held accountable by (in a healthy way), and share both joy and pains of life, would enhance my life in many ways.

But, at the very same time, I am also becoming much more grounded in my own values and find new ways to be happy under various circumstances. It is definitely true that many people jump into relationships and marriages far too quickly and easily. Perhaps the institution of marriage in itself is more positive than negative, but people misuse it far more than they should.

Joeseph

@MayCaesar

I  think if it's for you it won't pass you by. I got married when I felt mature enough and came to the table with a sizable down-payment to make on a house , it's worked wonderfully for me so far , as I type this I'm also painting in my studio with doors open on a glorious day as my wife does some paperwork upstairs.

We happily live in the space yet pursue our own interests without interference , my only rule is ......don't touch or move my books as I always have a pile on the go and hate anyone moving or touching them.

MayCaesar

@Joeseph

Sounds marvelous! Indeed, I think this is how it usually works. Many people want to get married because others pressure them to and because they just believe that this is something everyone should do - and end up rushing it and choosing the wrong partner. Others get too excited about the romantic component too soon and do not think about the long-term prospects of the marriage. Others still get a partner as a way to compensate for their insecurities, setting a ticking bomb. On the other hand, if you just focus on your own life and make it as exciting and fulfilling as possible, then you will naturally start attracting compatible partners, and you will know exactly what you want.

My life started coming together around 2.5 years ago when years of self-improvement work, sports and career paid off and I felt for the first time like a whole, fulfilled, self-sufficient person. Soon after I started meeting amazing women, and interaction with them was effortless. I still have not found "my" person, but it should just be a matter of time - and, much like you, being independent and not interfering into each other's hobbies too much is a must.

Joeseph

@MayCaesar

Sounds marvelous! Indeed, I think this is how it usually works. Many people want to get married because others pressure them to and because they just believe that this is something everyone should do - and end up rushing it and choosing the wrong partner. Others get too excited about the romantic component too soon and do not think about the long-term prospects of the marriage. Others still get a partner as a way to compensate for their insecurities, setting a ticking bomb. On the other hand, if you just focus on your own life and make it as exciting and fulfilling as possible, then you will naturally start attracting compatible partners, and you will know exactly what you want.


I'm  enjoying  it I've found someone I couldn't imagine living without so it fits perfectly for me.

When you think a lot of marriages are decided by  parents   choices and  interference as in the arranged marriages in Islamic countries and India and other countries in that part of the world , I know also christians on reaching a certain age are under peer pressure to commit, when I was young an unmarried man in his 30' s was deemed either homosexual or "odd," Dawkins was right when he said religion poisons everything.

My life started coming together around 2.5 years ago when years of self-improvement work, sports and career paid off and I felt for the first time like a whole, fulfilled, self-sufficient person. Soon after I started meeting amazing women, and interaction with them was effortless. I still have not found "my" person, but it should just be a matter of time - and, much like you, being independent and not interfering into each other's hobbies too much is a must.

Isn't it amazing the way you feel about yourself is like a magnet for attracting other people. I know a case of this in reverse a woman I know had a father who was an alcoholic and she got involved in relationship after relationship where she attracted alcoholics, its weird as she told me she hates alchohol and alcoholics I often wonder whats at play here.

I hope you find a perfect fit , my wife and I constantly challenge each other , laugh and talk a lot yet keep our independence to pursue our own interests.

My wife is out in the garden at the moment  ( she loves gardening )  I'm reading with a glass of red , most days pass happily and harmoniously I count myself as fortunate.