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If you are arguing that vaccine mandates are good as they protect the health of the community. Then by the same logic that a policy is beneficial if it helps the general health of the community, then why don't we lower the speed limit to four? After all, fewer people will die from car accidents.
Or why don't we install cameras everywhere, including in bathrooms and private living accommodations? After all, this will help prevent murder and potential suicide that would otherwise be concealed, and thus save lives.
It is a person's choice to subscribe to the idea of placing one's own beliefs behind the health of the community. No government should force such a decision like that.
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Okay, by your definition, a "natural dentist" is an expert in "natural dentistry". Should you not trust him? How do you figure out that he is a quack, and can you apply the same process in order to determine in general whether an expert is talking nonsense?
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A rather slight boost in productivity is not justifiable due to the large legal restrictions placed on people's freedom.
But isn't this loss of convenience worth it for the tens of thousands of lives saved?
And the government forcing fluids into people's bodies doesn't weaken trust? Huh.
All the more reason we should limit the power of government.
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I never denied the health benefits of vaccines. But again, it is a person's choice. If someone wants to shoot themselves in the foot or work at a construction site without safety equipment. The government shouldn't be responsible for one's own lack of due diligence.
But such laws should only apply on government roads and government property, rather than private ones. If the government were to mandate vaccines in institutions such as the NIH, I would have no problem with that. But forcing private individuals and businesses to fall under such accommodations is a gross overestimate of a government's power to regulate freedom.
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I do know what that claim is (setting aside the glaring problems with that "97%" study people cite nowadays without having ever looked at it), and, chances are, it is much milder than what you expect it is.
How do you determine that these are red flags if you are not an expert? What if a dentist drinking a glass of tequila before the operation does so out of her expertise? You must have a general method in place requiring you to think for yourself.
These are strange requirements... you might be looking for a dentist for a long time.
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I'm against the government forcing private institutions, and thus private schools to adopt vaccine mandates, yes. However, as a member of the electorate, I personally oppose vaccine mandates in schools. But that is ultimately the choice of the government.
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What does this lazy comment have to do with the post you are responding to?
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Sorry, I was referring to this comment:
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We have not achieved herd immunity from Covid. In fact vaccine itself doesnt even provide full immunity.
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This is a clear reflection of a person that does not understand what herd immunity is lmao. This guy appears to think that vaccines are supposed to give complete immunity to a single individual, and that is what means and leads to herd immunity. Wow!
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First off thats not what i said. Second id like to see your source which says we achieved herd immunity.
Herd immunity means enough people are immune to the disease that a disease is nearly effectively erradicated because it cannot effectively spread.
What im saying is its Pretty hard to achieve that with covid when the vaccine cant even provide full immunity or spread to those who have gotten it.
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I don't think that forcing children in government schools to take a vaccine is okay, but I think it should be allowed under the rights of the government.
However, this shouldn't spread to other private institutions, whether they be schools or other facilities.
Do you concede that the government has no say in forcing private businesses or individuals to accept vaccine mandates?
And in many states children can be exempted from their parents from school. Such as Amish parents being allowed to do so in Wisconsin v. Yoder. I have no problem with the legality of public schools forcing vaccines as long as they don't enforce the same measures on private schools. And they also don't force children into public schools without the consent of their parents.
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https://www.npr.org/2021/11/19/1056568867/should-schools-mandate-covid-vaccine-for-children
Does this influence your stance?
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Most anti-vaxxers are just hesitant. Nothing works against the hardcore deniers. Yet, vaccine mandates help get the forgetful to get their vaccines.
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No, it doesn't.
Please address my argument.
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It is cute how the people with the morals of a high school bully genuinely see themselves as having a higher ground than all these "deniers" and "ignoramuses". They will hate the idea of a random Texas redneck having a gun at a shooting rage, but be absolutly fine with a government-endorse thug pointing a gun at that redneck and marching him to the nearby vaccination point.
In this country once a group of intellectuals stood up against the greatest empire in human history, because even that empire intruded into people's lives too much. They would shudder at the thought that 250 years later hundreds of millions of the US residents would bend over to authoritarians 100 times worse than the British monarchs of the time were.
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That is what it comes down to. If I go about my day as usual without having been vaccinated, then I will violate the law and be legally punished for it. And if I do not comply with the requirements of the punishment, guess what is going to happen?
That is what every legal restriction ultimately comes down to: "Do as we say or face the point of the gun". That facing the point of the gun may be separated from the action by a few layers in the stack of laws is an irrelevant technicality.
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Every single law is ultimately enforced at a gunpoint. Something that is not enforced at a gunpoint at the end of the legal chain is not a law, but a recommendation. A recommendation cannot be a mandate and vice versa. If I face no legal repercussions for not getting my child vaccinated and not having him do anything that vaccinated kids do not have to do, then and only then is the mandate not enforced at a gunpoint - but in that case we are no longer talking about a mandate.
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I'm not talking about religion really. I'm talking about privacy and personal autonomy, and the infringement of that by vaccines.
Because the state should not get to force children into schools against the wishes of their parents or guardian. Especially when it conflicts with their religion.
And how exactly will that benefit society as a whole? 7% of the population in America today is atheist. I'd like to see any functioning society where 93% of the population is held in contempt and abused by lack of toleration.
Sure, much harm has been done in the name of deities, but has not a similar amount of harm, especially as of recent times, been done by oppressively atheist governments? One cannot overlook the effects of religious oppression in China, Cambodia, Germany, Russia, North Korea, Romania and East Germany as nothing short of abusive and deplorable.
That's not your choice to make for other individuals.
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The crucial difference, however, is that no one forces you to enter a private contract. If you do not want to abide by the rules of the bar in question and be held at a gunpoint upon stubborn refusal to do so, you are free to not enter the bar and go somewhere else. And if all bars around you have this weird rule and there is a demand for a bar without that rule, you can open your own bar and make a killing.
Government-issued contracts, i.e. laws, are different: I am forced into them against my consent. I do not consent to being held at a gunpoint upon refusal to follow them, yet I am. That is not necessarily a bad thing: there is a case to be made for certain laws to exist, such as laws outlawing murder. However, the essence of the laws must be recognized. At the end of every single law, no matter how insignificant, is an armed goon with the license to shoot you. You do not pay a $1 city parking ticket and ignore/resist ALL followup requests if the government - and you only have two possible outcomes: you get shot by a guy with a badge, or the government gives up at some stage, refusing to enforce the law.
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https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/6c9yo78fw1/econtoplines.pdf
We aren't talking about education or religion, stay on point.
You have failed to respond to any of my arguments now and seem to be pursuing a separate debate topic regarding the validity and benefits of religion. Until you actually address my argument regarding covid vaccine mandates or concede to my position, I likely won't respond to you anymore.
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Incredibly, measles broke out again in the same school nine years later. There were 247 cases in that one school compared to 934 for the entire country that year.23" Harriett Hall
https://www.skepdoc.info/christianity-can-be-hazardous-to-your-health/
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Kinda forgot about this thread( ) so apologies for the late response.
I brought it up as a subsidiary point towards my argument but not as the actual substance of it. My argument mainly relies on privacy.
I also don't see why we should go about deliberately oppressing religion. Such policies did not bode well for the population in the USSR, China, Romania, or North Korea.
Because it forces itself onto other people. A vaccine doesn't do that, it is purely your own choice and does not directly affect other people(at least through deliberate action, unlike human sacrifice).
But they still believe in a religion, and thus by your logic should be discriminated against.
As said previously, good luck ever having a successful government ruled by the 7% against the 93% in today's world.
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There have been many cases involving the systematic oppression of religion in those countries. However, I won't go into detail because this isn't relevant...
Do you still have an argument that vaccine mandates should be instituted or no?
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I'll take a look at it, of course.
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