Pete and Chasten Buttigieg on fatherhood
He's a Harvard grad, Rhodes scholar, Army veteran, Mayor of South Bend, Ind., presidential candidate, and Secretary of Transportation, but Pete Buttigieg has another title: Papa. He and husband Chasten Buttigieg share with correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti their journey to parenting twins Penelope and...
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@ZeusAres42 I don't see anything to respond too.
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This statement seems to present a deepity. I'm not entirely sure if you are being completely honest with us, or even with yourself, when you say your beliefs about God are based on evidence. If your belief truly rests on evidence, then why is there a need for faith? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, 'I don’t need reason, logic, or evidence to believe in God; faith alone suffices'?
Furthermore, how do you verify the historical accuracy of scriptural events and teachings? What methods can be employed to test these against other historical documents or evidence, beyond merely observing the sun and moon and attributing their existence to God? What substantial evidence exists? How can we test to determine if these scriptures are authentic, without merely relying on intuition, attributing mysteries of nature to divine action, etc.? How can these methods be replicated or verified by others who seek to understand the validity of its claims?
Lastly, considering your belief in an omnipotent Creator is based on observations of nature and further reinforced by Scripture, how do you distinguish between what might simply be subjective personal interpretations of these observations and what is objectively applicable evidence?
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No it's not your imagination. You asked tough questions. Ones that require deep thought, true evaluation of your beliefs. If he's not ready to contemplate outside his indoctrinated faith, he won't. Part of my internal anguish concerning religiosity was the realization I misplaced my faith. That alone leaves one feeling venerable and foolish.
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@Factfinder
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@ZeusAres42 @Factfinder Do you know what epistemology is? Do you have a question as opposed to a questionnaire?
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@Factfinder Without faith, you have no hope.
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And no, your preaching does not offend me. Insanity does not offend me in principle: it is a mental condition that is quite debilitating, but it is just a fact of life.
I will repeat my question again: what if the reality is that God of Logic wrote the Bible to separate easily duped people (and purge them subsequently) from those who have a little more logical/critical thinking? What experiment could you perform to eliminate this possibility? And if you cannot perform such an experiment, then is it not true that your faith rests on absolutely nothing?
I honestly do not think him a sophisticated enough thinker to even have "epistemology". As he himself says, he is run by blind faith: he lacks any toolset for acquiring knowledge as such.
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My faith in God is not irrational. . I trust God because of the things I have seen and observed.
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Once very fundamental assumptions are accepted, everything else derives from them logically. Sure, I might not know all the details of how my car works - but I know that solid engineering went into it, I know many elements of that engineering, I know from experience that cars consistently run well. It is not like I hop into a car and in a complete informational vacuum say, "This car will run well" - no one does that. When I hop into a car, I have tons of information validating my assumption that the car will run. It is not faith, but an observation.
In Bayesian statistics, the more often we observe a particular pattern, the more likely this pattern is to reflect some law. If we observe 970 out of 1000 women give birth and 0 out of 1000 men give birth, it is reasonable to conclude that women can give birth and men cannot. It is not "faith", but a very concrete reasoning.
Needless to say, such concrete reasoning is absent in religion, and whenever you ask a religious person what observations make them think that god exists, they will say something completely outlandish, like, "I have seen people embracing Christianity having their lives improved", or "I have had an emotional experience I cannot explain rationally" - things having nothing to do with the question at hand.
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If you were doing everything in your life by faith, you would not last an hour. Just embrace by faith something random, such as "I do not need to breathe to survive", and try to live it.
That is the fun thing about you nutcases: 99.999% of your actions do not have anything to do with faith. You only invoke faith when talking about ridiculous fantasy concepts such as "god" or "afterlife", because this is just fantasy trash talk that has no consequence on anything.
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There is no "faith" involved in things you described. I mean, I have no idea how your brain works, but most people's brains do not work like that. Why do I take my prescribed medications, but do not take the snake oil a random stranger sells? Because behind the former is rigorous scientific research and years of successful sales on the market, while behind the latter is just a guy wanting to profit off my naivety.
You again just ignore everything that has been said and repeat the same boring preachy stuff. As I just explained, you do not employ faith in 99.999% of your actions. You said before that the solution to hunger is prayer - how about you try practicing it?
You do not actually believe all this nonsense you are preaching to others: actions speak louder than words. You can say whatever you want, and maybe 0.01% of the most naive fools out there will accept your words - but they are just words. You never practice what you preach. If you did even 0.1% of things your faith claims you should do, you would be a corpse.
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Once again, what you believe is irrelevant in the context of a debate. What you can justify logically is what is important, and to that end I am waiting for response to my argument.
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Ok, in response to your last request for just one question how about we start here:
How do you verify the historical accuracy of scriptural events and teachings, and what methods can be employed to test these against other historical documents or evidence, beyond merely observing the sun and moon and attributing their existence to God?
Also, if you could reciprocate with the same courtesy and provide straight up answers, and that are also void of any deepities that would be nice. Thanks.
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Here you are confusing faith with heuristics. In many religious contexts, faith refers to a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, often based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. This form of faith typically involves a degree of trust and confidence in a higher power or the tenets of a religion that goes beyond empirical evidence and often exists in the absence of it.
Heuristics on the other hand are mental shortcuts or rules of thumb that help us make decisions or judgments quickly without having to stop and analyze every detail. Heuristics simplify the decision-making process by applying practical, experience-based techniques for problem-solving, learning, and discovery.
Eating food without fear of poisoning similarly relies on a heuristic that food obtained from trustworthy sources is safe to consume, based on past experience and societal norms, rather than faith in the absence of evidence.
I personally also like (along with other notable philosphers) to say that faith is "pretending to know something about that which you don't know."
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If all you need is trust/faith then why say your belief is based on evidence? Why contradict yourself like that?
Your words don't confuse me. I find a long winded response unecessary. Simple will suffice usually.
And on the matter of subjectivity then how about you also address this question?
Considering your belief in an omnipotent Creator is based on observations of nature and further reinforced by Scripture, how do you distinguish between what might simply be subjective personal interpretations of these observations and what is objectively applicable evidence?
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"I mean that we do not infer that our faith is true based on any sort of evidence or proof, but that in the context of the Spirit of God speaking to our hearts, we see immediately and unmistakably that our faith is true. God's spirit makes it evident to us that our faith is true." - William Lane Craig, Hard Questions, Real Answers, (2003, p. 35)
At least he is honest about his abandonment of reason. Right now, these two are trying to claim that their beliefs are based on evidence, reason, logic, etc.
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As such, I see only two possibilities:
- They do not truly believe these things. They tell themselves and others that they do because they feel that believing them is noble - but when push comes to shove, they do not believe them in the full sense of the word. If they were put in the situation where holding on to these beliefs was clearly detrimental to their well-being, they would not just pretend temporarily not to hold them - they would fully acknowledge that they do not hold them.
- They do truly believe these things. In this case, their mind is split apart: it works in two different modes depending on the subject of the discussion.
Both of these possibilities are quite damning, but I just do not see a realistic third option.Well, if you are in the business of redefining English words now, then this conversation is truly pointless. And no, I am not a nihilist: I am very passionate about my life and have a lot of goals I am striving to accomplish and dreams to become reality. I would venture that I see much more meaning in my life, than someone who sees this life as merely a bridge to the "afterlife".
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You are so disinterested in this reality, you do not even read what you are replying to. As usual, your comment has zero to do with what I said. Just more mindless preaching.
Let us grab the bull by its horns, shall we? Christians are the ultimate nihilists.
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Oh, you are telling me the truth... Now that is quite an argument! I am totally convinced now.
Grandpas are cute to listen to, but many of them are quite far gone. We have one as president now, and apparently we also have one as the resident preacher.
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1) It is the "evidence" of the creation narrative that consumes my senses 24/7/365 that engenders faith that there is a Creator, an omnipotent Designer who is worthy of my attention.
Which creator? Hindu in origin? Abrahamic? What is the 'evidence' that points to your specific god? What model did you use to test it?
Without saying 'god did it' or using bible verses, will you explain in detail the origins of life, the human gnome, and the universe? You know, just elaborate on the method your god of choice used during each step of the creation process. I'll await your knowledgeable response and again, "god did it" and the bible don't count. Faith don't count. Your well informed opinion based on what you know academically is what I'm asking for.
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It is always like this.
"It is so obvious that the Bible is true!"
"Oh, okay, if it is obvious, then it should not be hard to prove it, right? Please go ahead."
*silence* / *excuse* / *threats* / etc.
One of my math professors back in Russia coined this awesome counter to a student refusing to provide a formal proof of something on the grounds of it being "obvious". He would say, "Obvious things are great: they are especially easy to prove". In practice, when someone says that something is so obvious, it does not need proving, it almost always is something untrue.
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I mean, I am open (or, at least, I strive to be) to changing my mind on anything, provided a good enough argument has been made. This guy though does not even make an argument, he just preaches, hoping, I guess, that the sheer volume of words is going to overwhelm us?
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@Factfinder @ZeusAres42 @MayCaesar Never mind me...I enjoy bantering with your demon...
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Nah, not desperate. Just mild curiosity concerning the mind of those with no reasoning ability.
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1) It is the "evidence" of the creation narrative that consumes my senses 24/7/365 that engenders faith that there is a Creator, an omnipotent Designer who is worthy of my attention.
Which creator? Hindu in origin? Abrahamic? What is the 'evidence' that points to your specific god? What model did you use to test it?
Without saying 'god did it' or using bible verses, will you explain in detail the origins of life, the human gnome, and the universe? You know, just elaborate on the method your god of choice used during each step of the creation process. I'll await your knowledgeable response and again, "god did it" and the bible don't count. Faith don't count. Your well informed opinion based on what you know academically is what I'm asking for.
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