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I recently learned, for example, that I am what is called "Demisexual", meaning that I do not experience sexual attraction to someone outside of the context of their personality. Well, if I was crazy about all these billions of categories, I could say, "Okay, I am no longer Straight: now I am Demisexual". While in reality nothing at all changed, I just learned a new label. Yet my statement would contribute to the positive statistics of these studies.
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If its the case that change is a choice how come the throughly debunked practice of " conversion " therapy is such a dreadful failure?
It's truly tragic the lengths individuals like you will go to defend primitive religious dictates ......
HRC
Some right-wing religious groups promote the concept that an individual can change their sexual orientation or gender identity, either through prayer or other religious efforts, or through so-called "reparative" or "conversion" therapy. The research on such efforts has disproven their efficacy, and also has indicated that they are affirmatively harmful. Beyond studies focused solely on reparative therapy, broader research clearly demonstrates the significant harm that societal prejudice and family rejection has on lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer (LGBTQ+) people, particularly youth. Furthermore, there is significant anecdotal evidence of harm to LGBTQ+ people resulting from attempts to change their sexual orientation and gender identity. Based on this body of evidence, every major medical and mental health organization in the United States has issued a statement condemning the use of conversion therapy.
Psychiatrist Dr. L. Spitzer, who once offered a flawed study on reparative therapy, has since denounced the study and has apologized for endorsing the practice.
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^Report of the American Psychological Association Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation (Washington, DC: American Psychological Association, August 2009), 3, https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf.
Nicholas A. Cummings a former president of the American Psychological Association said “of the patients I oversaw who sought to change their orientation, hundreds were successful” USA Today
APA admits that there is no “valid causal evidence” that SOCE is harmful:
While I would love to call you out for your bigotry and desire to keep people from making their own personal mental and health decisions for themselves, I will refrain from doing so because it is outside the scope of the discussion - which is whether people are born gay.
Hey, you claimed people are are born gay - where's your evidence? I keep asking. And you, because you know you can't, answer the question, have provided no evidence that people are born gay. I accept your lack of providing evidence that people are born gay, as admission that you have no valid argument.
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ARGUMENT TOPIC : Just Lying is caught yet again only posting up part of the story on the disgraced charlatan Nicholas .A Cummings .......
In 2015, at the age of 91, Dr. Cummings stated that his views on sexual orientation change efforts had been distorted and that he believed that the use of such “therapy” to “cure homosexuality” was unethical and a basic violation of human rights. He stated that he believed patients should have the right to choose their own treatment goals.
ZING
Cummings in his own words ........
Success was not measured by whether a client changed sexual orientation. In fact, the number of clients who changed was relatively low. However, Dr. Cummings recalls that the majority of homosexual clients had positive results
ZINGNicholas Cummings was the president of the American Psychological Association from 1979 - 1980, but he now believes the organization he once led has been taken hostage by “ultraliberals” beholden to the “gay rights movement,” at the expense of "scientific objectivity." The people Cummings is describing here sometimes go by the title "licensed therapists" and "accredited medical associations that disagree with Nicholas Cummings."
You see, Cummings is a proponent and former practitioner of ex-gay therapy, a discredited (except, that is, among right-wing Christian organizations and "ex-gay" practitioners) pseudo-therapeutic practice that seeks to "cure" gay people.
ZING
While I would love to call you out for your bigotry and desire to keep people from making their own personal mental and health decisions for themselves
But I never made any such arguments , the only bigot here is you who sees homosexuals as mentally sick sinners , so as usual you accuse others of your faults .
, I will refrain from doing so because it is outside the scope of the discussion - which is whether people are born gay.
We are all still waiting on you to prove homosexuality is a choice.
Hey, you claimed people are are born gay - where's your evidence?
The scientific evidence has been posted to you by me and others several times pretending it hasn't just demonstrates how foolishly childish you are
I know you can't, answer the question, have provided no evidence that people are born gay. I accept your lack of providing evidence that people are born gay, as admission that you have no valid argument.
Again pretending you weren't presented with the facts is clear evidence of your continuous dishonesty .
We are all still waiting for you to prove that homosexuality is a choice , your buddy and poster boy the charlatan Cummings disagrees with you.
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LGBTQ is mental and spiritual illness.
Is it indeed , what would you call a grown man who believes in talking snakes , a zombie messiah and virgin births?
One "chooses" take another man's penis into his mouth.
Well OK if that's your thing
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If you have been following the discussion it is people like @Joeseph, @Factfinder, @MayCaesar, and @ZeusAres42 that seem to claim that sexual orientation is immutable and that if someone wants to change their sexual orientation they should not be allowed to try or get help in changing. I don't remember you asking why they hate freedom so much.
Again, the evidence shows that people are not born gay - that there is no gay gene, so-called genetic markers are not genetically determinate, that there is fluidity in sexual orientation with between 10- 20% of the population having changed their sexual orientation.
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If you have been following the discussion it is people like @Joeseph, @Factfinder, @MayCaesar, and @ZeusAres42 that seem to claim that sexual orientation is immutable and that if someone wants to change their sexual orientation they should not be allowed to try or get help in changing. I don't remember you asking why they hate freedom so much.
Fact: If you must out right lie to keep arguing you've already lost. Please post the specific comments by the exact people from their post or posts that made this argument.
Can you prove you chose to like girls before your orientation developed into what it is? Or was sexual preference bestowed upon you during your developmental years? Remember, each lie you tell like the one above, is another nail in the coffin of your faith. See, (?) it's not just the debate you've lost, each lie works against your faith as well.
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You will find however, someone making the argument here that someone can physically choose to be physically attracted to on person on one day and then choose to be physically attracted to another person the next day. Of course, there is no evidence for this, it's nowhere to be seen in update literature including the outdated ones he references, and it's not even a topic that is discussed these days by contemporary scientists as it's archaic,
and to mention how nonsensical it is. @jack
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Here's a quote from the New Zealand 2023 National study
US national study (includes most recent 5 studies):
Sexuality continues to change and develop well into adulthood, finds study
UK national study:
Almost 7% of people in UK changed sexual identity in six years, study suggests
I will point this out for the 6th time - the definition of sexual orientation encompasses attractions, behaviors, identity, and group affiliation. That means that they also measured attractions, as well as behaviors and identity.
YOU have claimed that people do not change and that they never make a choice in changing. Yet, you have not explained how attractions, behaviors, identity, or group affiliation changes without ever making a choice. What causes people to change sexual orientations, some over 5 times in 5 years, as the studies show, if there is never a choice ever employed? How does one change behaviors without a choice?
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If you have been following the discussion it is people like @Joeseph, @Factfinder, @MayCaesar, and @ZeusAres42 that seem to claim that sexual orientation is immutable and that if someone wants to change their sexual orientation they should not be allowed to try or get help in changing. I don't remember you asking why they hate freedom so much.
Can you not read? I said, "The thing is no one argued sexual orientation can't be changed. The point of contention concerns before any possible change occurs."
Now with that fresh in your mind care to try responding in quick pro quo fashion instead of bull crap? To this again...
Fact: If you must out right lie to keep arguing you've already lost. Please post the specific comments by the exact people from their post or post that made this argument.
Can you prove you chose to like girls before your orientation developed into what it is? Or was sexual preference bestowed upon you during your developmental years? Remember, each lie you tell like the one above, is another nail in the coffin of your faith. See, (?) it's not just the debate you've lost, each lie works against your faith as well.
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Yes you believe a lot of very strange bizarre things I agree
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Yes I know you believe in a god that approves of slavery , I hold myself to higher moral standards
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You're a slave to Satan; I'm a slave to Jesus....get over it.
I don't believe is Satan or God .......you worship a God that approves of slavery
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One thing I am confused by what you said is that orientation may very well be purely environmental. Surely you can't be suggesting that biology plays no part in physical attraction? I'm not saying you are saying this. I am just asking for clarification.
I mean there might be some outlier cases where sexual orientation seems to be very much environmentally influenced but that doesn't negate any biological influence here and wouldn't make any sense to suggest that since you need biological underpinnings in the first place for biological organisms to be influenced by their environmental factors.
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I am talking now with MayCaesar. Our discussions are not your discussion. And I have no idea who you are arguing with, but it certainly isn't me or any of the other people you referenced earlier.
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One thing I do have for you, though, is a challenge: Find someone to whom you are not physically (it doesn't matter what sex) attracted and then choose to be physically attracted to them for a week. Then, choose to be physically no longer attracted to them.
Remember, this isn't about engaging in behaviour but physical attraction. Since you see these two concepts as the same thing anyway, this challenge shouldn't be too hard for you.
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You are a slave..
Ehh , no I'm not but you are a slave to your immoral g9d
.slavery has been an institution for 6000-years....man wanted slavery
So did your god as he totally approved of it.
....Elohim worked around and through
Your god approved of women being sold as sex slaves
...your facade of arrogance and superiority over Elohim's sovereignty won't buy your way out of Hell
I'm superior to your immoral god
. Only Jesus is the Door to Life. You are Satan's fo-ol.
Jesus approved of slavery ......there is still no god or Satan you raging loon
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However, the question arises: are people with two different biological imprints, yet subjected to the same environmental factors, going to develop their sexuality independently? How strong is the overlap? It is possible that it is 0%, but it is also possible that it is 100%. Our biological imprints may differ significantly, yet the differences might be quite irrelevant when it comes to development of this particular trait. This possibility is what I was suggesting.
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I am always interested in debating, but I just don't have any interest in being personally attacked.
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This seems pretty much on par with a chapter I recently came back to from the book called "Reason: Book I & II: A Critical Thinking- Reason-and Science-based Approach to Issues That Matter (Dr Bos Critical Thinking Series).
Without potentially infringing too much on copyright, I will say that there is a bit in this section where the Author says that even if a trait is a certain percentage, that doesn't necessarily mean that when forced upon by environmental factors, the result will be the same percentage of an expression of those genes.
@MayCaesar
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Jesus allowed society to choose its way and called those who belong to Him to live in accordance with the Father's will. Slavery is man's institution, not Elohim's though He allows man to "choose" to enslave and dominate due the fallen nature via the Adamic curse. You are a blind servant of Satan headed to death in Hell in your servitude and enslavement to him...
Incorrect , you really need to open a bible some day .......
Exodus 21:20-21New International Version
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Straight from your gods mouth slavery totally approved of.
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I didn't personally attack you. I proposed a challenge for you to choose to be physically attracted to someone you have no physical attraction to. That isn't a personal attack. That is a challenging proposal based on the predication of your argument.
If physical attraction is related to wilful shifts, this can be demonstrated via experimentation, right? Isn't that what you mean when you talk about sexual fluidity? All you need to do is go out, pick a person who you find completely unattractive and willfully choose to be physically attracted to that person for one week.
Perhaps, though, one week is not enough. Probably with enough effort and determination, maybe even with the help of some conversion therapy, you could find yourself physically attracted to that person, say, in a few months perhaps?
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; Yep....slavery was a thing.
Yep....... and approved by your god.
..as was indentured servitude
Which is not the following .......
Exodus 21:20-21New International Version
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
....your objections to a 5000-year old institution observed around the World will not suffice as an excuse for your rejection of Jesus as Messiah while standing in Judgment.
A 5000 year old institution approved by your god
Why would I worship a god that approves of slavery , the beating of slaves and the selling of slaves , I''ve more moralty in my little finger than the god you crawl to .
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When it comes to being born gay and the claims brought forward by the scientific community stating there is no evidence to back such claims in human genes. It is impossible in this day and age with the technological research at hand to confirm whether or not it is a valid. People born with peanut allergies has no specific answer as to other closely related debates such as the one of being born gay. It is all speculation and all i could say from the rare interactions ive had with people claiming to be gay whether male or female is that for men, it is highly probable that some are born female but in a males body and some are born male but in a females body. How this is possible i dont know.
But being born gay is definately not a choice. That is like a straight man forced to get it by another man i. The butt and be told that is normal.
Human genetic error at its core.
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Jesus allowed society to choose its way and called those who belong to Him to live in accordance with the Father's will.
The fathers will was slavery is just fine.
Slavery is man's institution, not Elohim's
Yet god set up the law and dictates for owning people as property.
though He allows man to "choose" to enslave and dominate due the fallen nature via the Adamic curse
Yes I know god approves of slavery as clearly stated in the bible, so why are you arguing if you agree?
. You are a blind servant of Satan headed to death in Hell in your servitude and enslavement to him...
Yet I don't approve of slavery you and your god do , if there was a Hell Jesus and God would roast for approving of owning people as property
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Great ,look forward to it.
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Elohim would have preferred that slavery not exist.
The all powerful God couldn't prevent it? Show me from the bible where he said he'd prefer there was no slavery? Why are you lying?
..but it did and it does...and Elohim commanded that the refugees of war and poverty and famine be brought into the fold of Israel's theocracy and treated humanely and offered freedom subsequent a set time of servitude
Your god clearly stated the slaves could be bought and sold from the nations around one , he also said Hebrew slaves could be released after 7 years others could be held for life and inherited, God also said his own people should never be treated this way , he also said slaves were your inheritance and could be bought , sold , beaten as they were your property.
....your obfuscation will not find traction at judgment.
My " obfuscation " , i'm sorry simply worded statements confuse you but I firmly believe this is another piss poor attempt by you to deflect from admitting your god is by any standards a scumbag which makes you as him a fellow scum bag.
Your god has as much right to judge me as Hitler did the Jews ......none
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