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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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The light has to be refracted in a certain way to make the sun look the same size while it is moving. But if you reflect the light in this certain way, the shadow experiment will no longer work.
If you cannot solve this problem, the flat earth is debunked.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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No you didn’t: Thats a lie.
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I will respond to none of your other arguments until you either answer this question or admit that you cannot answer the question.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You also have to remember that if the earth is circling above the flat plane, it’s not just size that has to be changed in the atmosphere.
In the equator, at the equinox, the day is 12 hours long, and the sun rises in the easy and sets in the west. In Erfs model, the sun would rise in the north east and set in the the North west.
You’ve also got the issue that, say, during the summer in the Southern Hemisphere, the entire edge of the disk is in continuously sunlight for weeks, whilst places that are much closer to the sun are in darkness.
I mean, I’ve been through this before: he can’t tell you where the sun is, how far away it is, or the moon, he can’t show how the light from the Sun physically needs to travel and change to show what we see, he can’t estimate the amount of refraction required, the conditions required to cause it, or whether these are even possible with the measurable properties of air, or the properties measured of the atmosphere by balloons.
In fact, he has no evidence of any kind to support the idea that refraction can explain the observations, but he’s very good at emphatically telling us that it is possible, then admonishing us all for not being scientific.
Its kinda hilarious!
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You do realize that, for this to happen, the light from the sun has to be refracted in two different ways simultaneously, right? Meaning it is impossible.
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I really see no way of resolving the problem though. If the dome refracts the light in a way that makes the sun not change size, because the light is refracted, the shadow experiment will not work anymore. He needs to invent a Schrödinger's dome or something... Just kidding, that would not work either.
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This means, necessarily, that all images ever taken of the earth from space that show any amount of curvature at any point have been faked, and given that orbits are impossible, and Gemini, Apollo are not aerodynamic to actively fly - any live action image from orbit is faked too.
Pointing this out, and pointing out that the effects available in the 1960s in most high budget sci do films and series - even thoughts that came out 10 years later were not as good quality as the video and photographs taken outside Gemini and Apollo (so try one of those) - is not a red herring.
Its completely relevant as it casts a specific doubt on your claims.
Now, obviously, we both know you’re just making this all up, so you’re trying to get me to disprove your position whilst you’ve provided no reasons to doubt any of the images at all.
So, as your supposedly a scientist, and before you’ve claimed these images are all fake - you must have determined the type of technology available at the time to produce these fake photos and video? Say the first US space walk, or lunar rendezvous of the Apollo missions.
So what options were available to produce a fake image of the earth from space, what is the most photo realistic example of this technology you can produce.
You MUST have researched this, as a scientist would not claim or assume videos and pictures from then 60s were fakes without having compelling reason to believe so: right?
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That was schroedingers refraction.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You have been offered empirical evidence that contradict the predicted measurements of GE, will you continue to ignore it and persue this red herring?
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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So, I’m sure you can, say, draw a diagram that allows you illustrate the scientific principles between the refractive effect you claim occurs.
I mean as you are a scientist - in order for you to conclude this refractive effect a) can occur b) could produce the observation c) would produce observations consistent with more than one observer at more than one place at more than one time, you must have crunched some of the numbers and applied the scientific principles of refraction: right?
Can we see your working, please?
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This is in light of not even the first image or video being produced as evidence, just the mere assertion that there are images. Which Appolo images are you referring to?
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Like I said, restate your arguments if you want
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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No you haven’t. Unless by empirical, you mean “non empirical”
Empirical reasons would involve you explaining the key indicators of faked or modified images, explaining why they can’t practically occur on non altered images: and then finding such key indicators in images that are practically understood to be unaltered. That’s science
Not only have you not done this this, you haven’t offered any evidence of the ability to produce such fake images pre photoshop, leave alone pre personal computers.
Now, what I’m doing, is using pointed questioning to show how little actual evidence you have, and how you have no actual backing for your position.
At no point have you offered any testable explanation of how you can personally tell any individual photo is faked. You cannot offer any practical explanation of how NASA has gone about faking images for the last 60 years. You also cannot offer any information about the technology available to fake images taken from space in the 60s; and you can’t provide any details about the practicalities involved at that time either.
So given that you seem to have no idea about the technology involved prior to 2008, or the process then or now, given that you can’t tell us any details of how to spot a fake, the method you would us and the empirical basis that method is based upon, nor outlined the way you have tested this method to ensure this accuracy: it kinda seems that you have no abilty to spot a real image from a fake image.
If you have no ability to empirically tell that any image I could is fake or not - why do you feel it matters that I haven provided you an image.
It seems that the only reason - given you own seeming completely inability to tell whether a photo is faked - for you to want me to provide an image - is so that you can dismiss it as fake, despite us having established that you have no empirical grounds to do so.
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Please explain what part of the scientific method you feel allows you to state that:
a) the sun is always above the earth
b.) that “refraction” somehow will make the sun appear to set at some point for all observers,
c) and also produce results for the two stick experiment consistent with a spherical earth,
d) and produce day lengths consistent with a spherical earth
e) and do so every single day without exception, independent of any weather consitions
And yet offer absolutely no evidence to support the position that all 5 of those things are even physical possible, leave alone occur as described.
I would like to know what interpretation of science allows you to say the above is true - without any supporting data - and also allows you to complain at people asking you to show why you feel your position is true.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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' He needs to invent a Schrödinger's dome or something... Just kidding, that would not work either. ' I was trying to state that even having both of them at once would not work because you would just see both, which we do not in reality.
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Remember, I proved how we could know this. Measure the lenght of a plane. Learn how high it will fly. Observe it. If it has how much length it should have if it was that high, then it is proven that the atmosphere does not always refract light.
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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Maybe I'm misinterpreting your arguments, please state your updated arguments in the most logical way, and how it is relevant to the shape of the earth.
Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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You think my argument proves nothing? Well, let us go to the beginning once more!
1- The shadow experiment tells us that if the earth was flat, the sun would have to be a couple thousand miles away.
2- If the sun were a couple thousand miles away, it would grow and shrink to 2x its size during the day. Which it does not.
Therefore, there needs to be some refraction at play here to make the sun look the same size. But there is a problem:
If you were to refract the light as to make the sun appear to be not changing size, you would also be affecting the results of the shadow experiment.
So, again, I ask you: "Explain how exactly an invisible dome would refract the light to make the sun look like it does not grow while still not contradicting the shadow experiment."
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