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Here are a few verses in the bible where god states that he is “evil”. So why do christians not take their god at his word that he IS in fact “evil”? It certainly would solve a lot of problems.
There are also a few verses where god's buddies say he's evil. So once again, why don't christians take these characters at their word who certainly know one heck-av-a-lot better than they do?
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. (theevilbible.com) [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
1KI 22: 22-23 “And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. 23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.”
2 Chronicles 18:22,”Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.”
Jeremiah 19:3 “And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.”
Jeremiah 19:15 “Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.”
Jeremiah 23:12 “Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.”
Amos 3:6 “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”
Deuteronomy 30: 15 “See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;"
2 Kings 22:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"
2 Kings 22:20 "Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.
JU 9:23 “Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:”
Post Argument Now Debate Details +
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This is the full chapter here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Samuel 12. Keep in mind, this is Nathan talking to David who had been sent by God to tell him his wrongs. David had taken Bathseba and killed her husband. This was the punishment for that. Discipline, not evil. I know that word is the same as evil these days, but take this for example. There is a video of a momma seal pushing her baby into the water. It screamed bloody murder and hopped on land again. Us humans, if it was our child, would comfort them, give them candy, and set them in front of the tv. But no, the seal pushed it back in many times. Most would say, how evil! Abuse! No, that seals knew that if that baby never learned to swim, it would die. It had to let it learn the hard way, and David did the same.
Again, the full chapter is here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Kings 22. A spirit did this and not God. You can't pick and choose what you think a verse says.
This next verse is exactly the same as the one above, same answer.
The true word is again disaster. Be careful with translations. I am using the NIV, a very good version of the Bible. Not sure where you got these from.
Wrong word again. Disaster is the actual translation.
Again, disaster is the word. Not evil. Disaster and evil are totally different things. God cannot be evil, but does bring disaster as punishment and discipline.
Disaster, not evil.
This is actually destruction. Not much different from disaster, but you never know. Maybe it got mixed in translation since they are extremely similar.
Next two also are not the word evil. Also, same chapter as before for 2 Kings.
That word is in fact animosity. Different from evil.
So none of these actually had the word evil in them at all, and many of these were out of context. So these are a few verses anyways, what about the verses of God being good?
Psalm 107:1 "Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good; his love endures forever"
Paslm 145:9 "The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made"
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."
http://www.allaboutgod.com/gods-goodness-faq.htm
No seriously, what version are you using?
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Also, what is so bad about God using text? It's the backbone of our society!!!! School is based off of text, our history is in texts, every single religion in the world has text, and science is almost all text. What other way do you want Him to give us instructions on how to live a righteous life? Just put it in our heads, the least safe place because of all the corruption of sin. People still would say that is a bad way too. Want Him to pop up in front of you? Well I'd like to see macroevolution take place too, but even though you can't see that either it doesn't matter. It's completely true there, yea suuuuure.
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https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2013/02/13/how-could-god-command-genocide-in-the-old-testament-2/
Really a Google search will solve all your problems man.
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Ah a possible dystheist here.
With the Biblical texts you present, I would agree.
@SuperSith89
try refuting 2 Samuel 12:11-14 11
Look, whether the translations are correct or incorrect, theists read it everyone reads it and most importantly as preachers claim, the people responsible for making a Bible(version) are under the guidance of God. If God guides them to speak or write in such way, why should a theist go against writing? Is it because God is depicted as evil? Look at other religions. Salute to them who STILL praise their god/s even if scriptures tell them they're evil. They still acknowledge that god.
And also it's clearly seen in the old testament God is not the loving father we have all heard. He's a creative God that loves to play with his sims. Who do you think made psalms? God? It's just people and their self interpretation of God based on what happened to them written as songs.
Paslm 145:9 umm Flood, Desert, the philistines( he just looked at David take 200 foreskins forcefully, human rights?). Maybe it should've been translated to "he HAD compassion on all that he has made". I don't think it's compassion with all the words he blurted out on the old testament. He's biased in sharing his bucket of compassion with a race of people and won't even care about brainwashing the pharaoh himself so pharaoh turns christian. The New Testament is much better.
God made us in his image and likeness. THEREFORE, he is capable of evil and has every right to do so like his creation. Like God who hath done all these, Man also hath or will. Satan made evil? Satan tempts us? Well let's go back to Job and learn that Satan can do NOTHING without God's permission.
@SuperSith89
Do you believe only one unity of people believing in Christianity should go to heaven?
It's already official doctrine that salvation is through John 3:16 not the good deeds bad deeds santa clause story. Therefore a priest child molester that always believed Jesus' death and resurrection, had his 'confession' and he repented so hard equal to how he treated the kid, goes to heaven. I wouldn't wish to enter a filthy heaven with major sinners but major believers. I'd rather enter hell where some people are atheist but haven't sinned/ have least sinned, people of different religion who were very religious but believed in the wrong one.
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Yo man chill. It's a debate, not an excuse for you to be smug towards people who disagree with you.
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Even better is that evil and hate does not have to exist! Evil and hate is not a need. Its not a necessity its not a requirement. But in god's world it most certainly is. Buddhists, Hindu's, the aborigines, Gaia Mother Earth, and nearly all Native American Indian tribes before the white man sweaty greasy pig christian brethren nearly wiped them out most certainly did NOT nor does NOT practice nor teach evil and hate the ways christians do. Not---even---close.
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit
https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
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As for the others, some were taken out of context, or have nothing to do with God.
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Haha not a sudden change of opinion but he did some things in the bible interpretable as good and other rather questionable things. Remember the definition of those terms starts with all. All good all evil. Being created in likeness according to catholics, our attributes, his attributes.
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If someone creates evil, they are evil.
God created everything, including evil.
Therefore God is evil.
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God cre-
oh wait, I think I'm typing bullsh**
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Explain.
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God is as helpless in its fate as are we. You can say he's evil for creating evil but then equally he is good so you create an oxymoron since he also created good.
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@someone234
You don't forgive a murderer who also does good things. Why should we do this for God, the supposedly omnibenevolent, omnipotent and omniscient creator of existence?
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@someone234
Sorry, I should have said most people as well as society as a whole.
I smell a troll..
If a person regularly tortures people for no reason but also does nice things, most people would call that person an evil person even though he also does good things.
God not only admittedly has committed atrocities, but he also watches all evil being done, has the power to stop or even prevent it, but decides not to.
And all that is besides the fact that ultimately, God is literally the root cause of anything that can be called evil.
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@someone234
Most theists believe that God is causa sui (self caused) or that he didn't have a cause....
so yes, that's what I'm saying.
If the being you're talking about is contingent, then you're not actually talking about god; you're talking about some lesser being or demi-god.
There's that troll scent again...
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The fourth dimension involves travelling physically through time but 4D beings cannot see time or sense it, they can only perceive it in a physical way that you and I can't even if we did invent a time machine, the machine would be 4D but you and I would remain 3D. The tenth dimension is universe level (it can warp every law of physics as if it was kicking a football). This universe is a ten dimensional being while galaxies are none dimensional, the ninth dimension can't sense other ways the laws of physics are being applied outside of their particular set but what they can do is manipulate everything except gravity and laws of physics.
The eleventh dimension (which string theorists deny is real but m-theorists support) is the dimension in which the only dimension beyond would be total nothing is that can render any law of physics or even any amount of anything void. It surpasses boundaries of any physical kind and is only real due to the links it makes between universes (versions of reality).
So, even if god really is an eleventh dimension entity and that entity is somehow as conscious as you and I, it isn't evil, it is merely carrying out its deterministic duty. It could not help but enable what you label as evil because it has to run all versions of reality and of course many will contain this supposed evil.
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Did it violate some site rule? You can inbox me if you want. You'r not capable of offending me.
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Ignoring the massive burden of proof you just laid on yourself, you still seem to be describing some lesser deity.
This conversation is about the biblical god, the hypothetical personal entity that is responsible for the deliberate creation of everything that exists.
THIS being chose to create and sustain evilness. This makes him evil. You have not refuted this point.
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@DrCereal
Saying that someone is evil is the same as saying they perform evil acts.
What else could it mean to say that someone is evil?
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@DrCereal
Maybe I need to elaborate that first premise.
Being responsible for a deliberate evil act makes one evil.
God created everything, including evilness.
Therefore god is evil.
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What is it that you wonder; that parts of the bible would have been omitted if today's atmosphere had existed when the bible was compiled, or that things that are happening now would have been added if we were living in the atmosphere of the past?
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Point being humans are fallible, including those who write scripture.
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Actually, it is "evil." Anyone who claims that Isaiah 45:7 spells out "disaster" is using an unfriendly translation to the original Hebrew. But let's get serious here, is G-d really evil, or is it more along the lines of this: I create both good and evil in a means to test you. . . to see if you'll DO good, as your forefathers. Just see Deuteronomy.
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"A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill
We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
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(2) The context of Isaiah makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” Isaiah 45:9. That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.
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Can you give evidence for your conclusion, or is this purely an opinion?
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For those who like to use Isa 45.7 as a prooftext that God creates/created evil. You need to do a little more research than just cherry-pick a verse out of the King James Version (KJV) The word in the original Hebrew meant calamity or natural disaster. Here are other versions of the Bible and their interpretation and use of the word ra from the original language.
(CSB) I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(ERV) I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the LORD, do all these things.
(ESV) I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(ESV+) I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and R1 create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(HCSB) I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things.
(KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(NASB) The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.(NIrV) I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all of those things. I am the LORD.
(NIV) I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(NKJV) I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.'
So just from reading other translations, we can see the word being claimed as creating "Evil" does not literally mean evil, but don't take my word for it. We can evaluate the original word.
Here is a word tree from a Bible sense lexicon (notice evil is by no means even a root word for the Hebrew word ra
If you want to know where evil comes from just read the book of James, and I'll forewarn you now it is not from God.
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A typical piece of Christian apologetics and a much used one when the lamentable “out of context “ defence fails .
A reading of the Bible clearly demonstrates the god of the Bible as the essence of evil , just total up the amount of deaths , infanticides , abortions , commanded by god then factor in his slaughters through jealous rages , pestillance , famine and disease and yet Satan who killed Jobs family with gods approval is the bad guy ???
What a tremendous PR job by Christians job to paint god as the good guy
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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
https://carm.org/does-god-create-evil
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/676-did-god-create-evil
https://www.compellingtruth.org/did-God-create-evil.html
https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A189/is-god-responsible-for-evil
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2 Samuel 12:11-14 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. (theevilbible.com) [The child dies seven days later.] This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
https://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=2202
As the Creator, God is allowed to do as He wishes with what He created.
https://carm.org/what-happens-to-babies-or-infants-who-die
I noticed you mentioned EvilBible.com. Since that website has many problems with it, including being inaccurate, I think that this link below,
https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-evil.html
• "A misunderstanding of God’s Word"
• "A misunderstanding of God’s character"
•" A misunderstanding of God’s creation"Please read the entire article, before responding back. I will engage in a conversation with you, if you choose to refuse to read this article.
"This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible."
This is a completely Subjective Statement. Do you have an objective standard of morality by which you can judge whether or not something is morally right or wrong?
God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist.
From an evolutionary viewpoint, please tell me why Rape is wrong? If there is no God, Atheism and Evolution are both true, please tell me why Rape is wrong?
"What about most of humanity’s condemnation of rape as an objective moral evil? Is it really an inherently evil act? Although evolutionist Randy Thornhill, co-author of the book A Natural History of Rape, “would like to see rape eradicated from human life” (Thornhill and Palmer, 2000, p. xi), he touted in a 2001 speech he delivered in Vancouver that rape is actually “evolutionary, biological and natural…. Our male ancestors became ancestors in part because they conditionally used rape” (2001). According to Thornhill and Palmer, “Evolutionary theory applies to rape, as it does to other areas of human affairs, on both logical and evidentiary grounds. There is no legitimate scientific reason not to apply evolutionary or ultimate hypotheses to rape…. Human rape arises from men’s evolved machinery for obtaining a high number of mates in an environment where females choose mates” (2000, pp. 55,190). If God does not exist, and if man evolved from lower life forms, in part because they “conditionally used rape,” then even rape cannot be called an objective moral evil. In fact, that is exactly what atheist Dan Barker admitted."
http://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=12&article=4101
What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!"
http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=9&article=1533
Also, why are you even talking about "Rape"? Where in this verse in "Rape" even being mentioned? I honestly do not see where.
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As far as the verses saying "God is evil", you are being too critical.
http://www.biblequery.org/
Go here to find a response to the verses.
Just click on "Menu" and "Answers to Questions", and then go to the appropriate Book.
Let me know which ones don't have a response, and I will go from there. Okay?
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If someone creates evil, they are evil.
God created everything, including evil.
Therefore God is evil.
You haven't proven that God created Evil? You are simply assuming that He did without giving any evidence to support that assumption.
The idea that "God created Evil" is inaccurate. Here's why:
https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html
https://www.allaboutgod.com/faq/why-did-god-create-evil.htm
https://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-evil.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
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You don't forgive a murderer who also does good things. Why should we do this for God, the supposedly omnibenevolent, omnipotent and omniscient creator of existence?
Am, because 1.) He is not a person and He is not a Murderer, either, He is God. 2.) He created us and can therefore do as He pleases with us. 3.) You, as a, sinful, human being, with limited knowledge, have no right or rational basis to attempt to Judge God, who knows more, knows better, has not ever sinned, and has given us an Objective, Absolute, Unchanging Standard for right and wrong and you on the other hand are merely giving your opinion.
#3 is somewhat confusing so please read these couples of articles below:
https://answersingenesis.org/morality/the-source-of-moral-absolutes/
https://www.compellingtruth.org/moral-argument-existence-God.html
https://carm.org/atheism/failure-of-atheism-to-account-for-morality
These articles, (above), explain what I mean by "God" and "Objective Morality", so please, do read them.
https://www.str.org/articles/does-god-have-to-obey-the-ten-commandments#.XOofoohKhPZ
https://carm.org/questions/you-shall-not-kill-yet-god-kills
https://www.gotquestions.org/God-killing.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-violence.html
1.) Do you have an objective standard of morality by which you can judge whether or not something is morally right or wrong?
https://carm.org/atheism/questions-on-standard-of-morality
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https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/evil.html
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A reading of the Bible clearly demonstrates the god of the Bible as the essence of evil , just total up the amount of deaths , infanticides , abortions , commanded by god then factor in his slaughters through jealous rages , pestilence , famine and disease and yet Satan who killed Jobs family with gods approval is the bad guy ???
And those things are all wrong according to your opinion and only your opinion, and while you have the right to have a opinion, you don't have a right to oppose your opinion on God, as if you somehow know better, when you don't.
"Job Satan"
https://carm.org/if-job-was-blameless-why-did-god-allow-satan-afflict-him
"Famine"
https://carm.org/does-god-ever-do-bad-things
"jealous rages"
Please show me what verses you are referring to.
https://www.rationalchristianity.net/jealous.html
"Disease"
https://carm.org/why-does-god-permit-sickness
Yes, Satan is the bad guy.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+38-41&version=NIV
Chapter 40.
https://www.gotquestions.org/God-Job-Satan.html
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