Should America have gun control?

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

@Zombieguy1987

@Applesauce

What say you?

So basically, some of the pro gun extremists, would maybe become offended, if the Second Amendment was changed from it's (currently observed and written status.)

If it was rewritten to look like the below?

Here's an idea for a BILL:

Amending the Second Amendment, so that it addresses the offenders and criminals who used their weapons in an illegaI manner, thus abusing their second amendment rights? 
That addresses, those gun owners who lawfully purchased their weapon, but then used that lawfully purchased gun to commit gun violence with it? 
This way the victims of gun violence and the families, are recognized within the preamble of the Second Amendment, just as the first time offenders and criminals are for their crimes of gun violence? 
Fair and equal representation, being represented within the dialogue of the Second Amendment itself? 

Is that the issue? 

The Second Amendment being changed to reflect gun violence, via how the offenders and the criminals killed innocent people with their guns?

Wouldn't it be educational to see if some of the pro gun organizations, in the United States, conducting any poll, studies, or surveys, to see how the United States public as a whole, would feel about the Second Amendment being amended, or changed, to reflect the modern days and age, that we currently live with, and in?  

The apparent day and age of the of the mass shooter gun violence? 

The day and age of the murder/ suicide gun violence? 

The day and age of the robbery, and carjackings gun violence? 

So some of the pro gun crowd, say that those gun violence crimes, are already illegaI to begin with, so they don't see the need to have them added to the preamble of the Second Amendment?

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

@Zombieguy1987

@Applesauce

What say you?

So basically, some of the pro gun extremists, would maybe become offended, if the Second Amendment was changed from it's (currently observed and written status.)

If it was rewritten to look like the below?

Here's an idea for a BILL:

Amending the Second Amendment, so that it addresses the offenders and criminals who used their weapons in an illegaI manner, thus abusing their second amendment rights? 
That addresses, those gun owners who lawfully purchased their weapon, but then used that lawfully purchased gun to commit gun violence with it? 
This way the victims of gun violence and the families, are recognized within the preamble of the Second Amendment, just as the first time offenders and criminals are for their crimes of gun violence? 
Fair and equal representation, being represented within the dialogue of the Second Amendment itself? 

Is that the issue? 

The Second Amendment being changed to reflect gun violence, via how the offenders and the criminals killed innocent people with their guns?

Wouldn't it be educational to see if some of the pro gun organizations, in the United States, conducting any poll, studies, or surveys, to see how the United States public as a whole, would feel about the Second Amendment being amended, or changed, to reflect the modern days and age, that we currently live with, and in?  

The apparent day and age of the of the mass shooter gun violence? 

The day and age of the murder/ suicide gun violence? 

The day and age of the robbery, and carjackings gun violence? 

So some of the pro gun crowd, say that those gun violence crimes, are already illegaI to begin with, so they don't see the need to have them added to the preamble of the Second Amendment?

@TTKDB, you would amend the Bill of Rights to read as follows???;

Preamble to the Bill of Rights

*Congress of the United States

begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution. RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz. ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.

Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg Speaker of the House of Representatives John Adams, Vice-President of the United States and President of the Senate.

Attest, John Beckley, Clerk of the House of Representatives. Sam. A. Otis Secretary of the Senate. *On September 25, 1789, Congress transmitted to the state legislatures twelve proposed amendments, two of which, having to do with Congressional representation and Congressional pay, were not adopted.  The remaining ten amendments became the Bill of Rights.

Amendment 1
- Freedom of Religion, Speech, and the Press

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

---

Amendment 2
- The Right to Bear Arms

Amending the Second Amendment, so that it addresses the offenders and criminals who used their weapons in an illegaI manner, thus abusing their second amendment rights? 
That addresses, those gun owners who lawfully purchased their weapon, but then used that lawfully purchased gun to commit gun violence with it? 
This way the victims of gun violence and the families, are recognized within the preamble of the Second Amendment, just as the first time offenders and criminals are for their crimes of gun violence? 
Fair and equal representation, being represented within the dialogue of the Second Amendment itself?

This is what you want???  I'm sure you can understand why I would never support that.  The last thing we need is a word salad in the Bill of Rights.

Evidence

TTKDB said:

@Evidence

Does your apparent anti war protest, have anything to do with the theme of the forum?

Because your individual narrative, reads like a presumption of mass distraction? 

Do you know of any Guld War veterans who are eating your anti war protest up, plate by plate? 

You're their anti war anchorman of choice? 

@TTKDB of course anti-war has everything to do with America having gun-control, .. everything. I mean the whole world knows that America is the most heavily armed country in the world, and ready to attack with full force, even Bushmen with their little blow guns they will consider; "Amassing weapons of mass destruction".  yet the countries turn on the TV and see all this "US to ban guns, gun control, gun control!"

Here is a good example, .. I think:

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

"This is what you want???  I'm sure you can understand why I would never support that.  The last thing we need is a word salad in the Bill of Rights."

Why not reach out to the survivors of the school mass shootings, and see how they might have a collective suggestion, in how to write the Second Amendment to reflect the murders of their lost classmates, and the school faculty members who were murdered as well? 

Reach out to ANY of them, and see what their recommendations might be?

Or I could reach to them, and direct them specifically to this forum, and pose the questions to them before some of the pro gun supporters of this forum? 

How long do you think that a group of survivors who have personally dealt with gun violence first hand, would need to write out a rough draft expressing their suggested amendments to the Second Amendment itself? 

My guess is, with their collective experiences, maybe not much time at all? 

TTKDB

@Evidence

"TTKDB of course anti-war has everything to do with America having gun-control, .. everything. I mean the whole world knows that America is the most heavily armed country in the world, and ready to attack with full force, even Bushmen with their little blow guns they will consider; ("Amassing weapons of mass destruction").  yet the countries turn on the TV and see all this "US to ban guns, gun control, gun control!" 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

Some excerpts:

"Saddam Hussein Said WMD Talk Helped Him Look Strong to Iran"

"Hussein, who was often defiant and boastful during the interviews, at one point wistfully acknowledged that he should have permitted the United Nations to witness the destruction of Iraq's weapons stockpile after the 1991 Persian Gulf War."

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

"This is what you want???  I'm sure you can understand why I would never support that.  The last thing we need is a word salad in the Bill of Rights."

Why not reach out to the survivors of the school mass shootings, and see how they might have a collective suggestion, in how to write the Second Amendment to reflect the murders of their lost classmates, and the school faculty members who were murdered as well? 

Reach out to ANY of them, and see what their recommendations might be?

Or I could reach to them, and direct them specifically to this forum, and pose the questions to them before some of the pro gun supporters of this forum? 

How long do you think that a group of survivors who have personally dealt with gun violence first hand, would need to write out a rough draft expressing their suggested amendments to the Second Amendment itself? 

My guess is, with their collective experiences, maybe not much time at all? 

How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  I'll wager you'll get a more unified response than from your school kids.  Kyle Kashuv is hardly alone in being a school shooting victim yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals.

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

"How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  I'll wager you'll get a more unified response than from your school kids.  Kyle Kashuv is hardly alone in being a school shooting victim yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals."

Kids fighting for kids, because some of the kids around them were murdered in the same schools that they both went to, and those same survivors who are protesting against the gun violence that killed their classmates, and the adults in those school mass shootings, so you're choosing to view their protesting of gun violence experiences as this?

For they being
(a school shooting victim) yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals."

So you view their individual gun violence protests as being a knee jerk reaction?

Do you view the (March For Our Lives rally that occurred last year, as a knee jerk reaction of an inanimate object (meaning guns) for the crimes committed by unstable individuals? 

Like I said before, you can't use the Second Amendment to, in a sense basically downplay the guns, that the mass shooters used to kill innocent people with.

And you can't downplay a mass shooters crimes because they used a gun or guns, being that you're a weapons owner as well? 

If that is what you're maybe trying to do, it's grotesquely sad?

Because in a sense, that almost comes across like another way to "victimize" the victims and the survivors of the gun violence all over again?

And that point of view, isn't a knee jerk reaction, it's a reaction to your individual points of view:

"How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  I'll wager you'll get a more unified response than from your school kids.  Kyle Kashuv is hardly alone in being a school shooting victim yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals."

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

"How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  I'll wager you'll get a more unified response than from your school kids.  Kyle Kashuv is hardly alone in being a school shooting victim yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals."

Kids fighting for kids, because some of the kids around them were murdered in the same schools that they both went to, and those same survivors who are protesting against the gun violence that killed their classmates, and the adults in those school mass shootings, so you're choosing to view their protesting of gun violence experiences as this?

For they being
(a school shooting victim) yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals."

So you view their individual gun violence protests as being a knee jerk reaction?

Do you view the (March For Our Lives rally that occurred last year, as a knee jerk reaction of an inanimate object (meaning guns) for the crimes committed by unstable individuals? 

Like I said before, you can't use the Second Amendment to, in a sense basically downplay the guns, that the mass shooters used to kill innocent people with.

You can't downplay a mass shooters crimes because they used a gun or guns, being that you're a weapons owner as well? 

If that is what you're maybe trying to do, it's grotesquely sad?

No, kids are NOT fighting for kids.  Kids are being used by Hollywood limo-liberals and leftist gun banners in the latest attempt to push an unpopular agenda.  Children are being politicized.  It's really sick and pathetic to witness.  As I've already noted, March for our Lives was hardly knee-jerk, it was carefully choreographed by a Hollywood producer backed by Bloomberg money, among others.

I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;

Deputy's teen son shoots at burglar at NW Harris home

Police ID 16-year-old fatally shot by 11-year-old Thursday afternoon

Child shoots intruder during home break-in

Are you going to tell these children they should not have been able to defend themselves and their sisters?  "If that is what you're maybe trying to do, it's grotesquely sad?"

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

Wrong.

"No, kids are NOT fighting for kids.  Kids are being used by Hollywood limo-liberals and leftist gun banners in the latest attempt to push an unpopular agenda.  Children are being politicized.  It's really sick and pathetic to witness.  As I've already noted, March for our Lives was hardly knee-jerk, it was carefully choreographed by a Hollywood producer backed by Bloomberg money, among others."

Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars? 

The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well? 

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Your bias website doesn't mean a thing to me, because, I saw and experienced the rally myself.

There wasn't anyone from Hollywood, at the rally directing anyone in how to act or in what to say.

You just jumped the Second Amendment shark, with your pro gun extremist narrative.

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

George_Horse

With what source could you provide, @YeshuaBought, that guns are the leading cause of death in America? And I may own firearms, but that does not mean I am a "gun-nut". A "gun-nut" would be a person who is overly obsessed with guns. 

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

From your shared website:

FRONTPAGE MAG:

"WHO’S REALLY BEHIND MARCH FOR OUR LIVES?"

"Instead of March for Our Lives, maybe it’s time to March for the Truth?"

March 21, 2018

"Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is an investigative journalist and writer focusing on the radical left and Islamic terrorism."

"Follow the money.

It’s a strange political fact, but nearly every major anti-gun group has been a front group. The NRA is maligned 24/7 and yet it’s completely obvious whom it represents. Despite the efforts to tie it to everyone from firearms manufacturers to the Russians (if you can’t tie any random Republican thing to the Russians these days, you won’t be working at the Washington Post or CNN for very long), it represents its five million members. Anti-gun groups tend to represent shadowy networks.

Take Everytown, the noisiest and most dishonest anti-gun group on the scene. The one consistent thing about anti-gun groups is that that they are usually the opposite of what their name says they are.

Everytown for Gun Safety was formed out of two other groups: Moms Demand Action and Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Both are actually front groups for Michael Bloomberg, the lefty billionaire and former boss of the Big Apple, who used New York City resources to host at least one of its websites.

So Everytown is really New York City.

March for Our Lives is on every cable channel, but who runs it? The photogenic teen fronts are out front. But it’s obvious to everyone that a bunch of teens don’t have the resources and skills to coordinate a nationwide movement. Instead it’s the experienced activists who are actually running things.

The March for Our Lives Fund is incorporated as a 501(c)(4). Donations to 501(c)(4) groups are not tax- deductible. And they don’t have to disclose donors. That’s why they’re a great dark money conduit.

But the March for Our Lives website suggests that donors who want to make a tax-deductible donation should write a check to the “March For Our Lives—Everytown Support Fund”. How will Bloomberg’s organization provide support for the supposed student group?

Why have two March for Our Lives Fund, one dark and one light? And why is one being routed through the godfather of the gun control lobby?

When it comes to March for Our Lives, the questions never end.

The March for Our Lives permit application was filed byDeena Katz, a co-executive director of the Women's March Los Angeles Foundation. This wasn’t just a little bit of professional activist assistance.

The application lists Katz as the “Person in Charge of Event”.

Katz is a former Dancing With the Stars and current Bill Maher producer.  She’s also the former owner of Talent Central, a Los Angeles talent agency, The leaked application lists her as the president of the March for Our Lives Fund.

Media contacts for March for Our Lives are being handled by 42 West. The agency is a full service PR firm operating out of New York and Los Angeles that represents major celebrities. 42 West was supposedly recommended by George Clooney who was one of a number of major celebrity donors.

Where did all those millions of dollars go? Good question.

“They’re being directed by people with knowledge of how to responsibly spend this money and it’s going to be very transparent. Every penny is going to be accounted for," Jeff Kasky, the father of one of the students, claimed.

Who are those people? A leaked document reveals that the March for Our Lives Action Fund is actually overseen by six directors and is incorporated in Delaware."

"So far we have Los Angeles, New York and Delaware, but not Florida.

Donations are being directed to, “March For Our Lives Fund, 16130 Ventura Blvd Ste 320, Encino, CA 91435.” That matches the listed office address on the application for the Wishnow Ross Warsavsky & Company. The tax firm appears to have no website.

The six directors learn toward Los Angeles.

There's Aileen Adams, the head of Do Good LA, who had served as the Deputy Mayor for the Office of Strategic Partnerships for Los Angeles. Adams was also UCLA's Vice Provost for Strategic Alliances.

Nor is she the only UCLA person on the list.

There's also George Kieffer, chair of UCLA's Board of Regents, who was named one of the most influential lawyers in California. He also held a variety of other political positions and headed the California State Protocol Foundation which funds expenses for Governor Jerry Brown.

Then there’s Nina Vinik who serves as the Program Director for the Gun Violence Prevention Program at the Joyce Foundation. The Joyce Foundation has been notable for its gun control efforts and it’s not surprising to find it here. The Joyce Foundation also set up the anti-gun Fund for a Safer Future.

One story claims that, "Several members of the Fund for a Safer Future are organizing internally to explore new ways of engagement in the wake of Parkland.” Another states that the Joyce Foundation, “funds research to help grantees understand how different audiences think about the issue. It's up to grantees to come up with tactics.” After Parkland, Nina wrote amilitant editorial using some very familiar talking points, like, “Maybe it’s time to ask the Supreme Court about the rights of the Parkland parents to see their kids grow up.” The Joyce Foundation and Nina are based out of Chicago.

Over in Washington D.C., there's Vernetta Walker of BoardSource acting as the fund’s Secretary and Jeri Rhodes of the Friends Committee on National Legislation acting as its Treasurer.

And then out of Madison, Wisconsin, comes Melissa Scholz.

Florida is notably absent from the roll call. Instead the organization, one of a number of seeming incarnations of the March for Our Lives brand, draws on established activist talent from the usual places, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington D.C. There’s nothing particularly local about it.

March for Our Lives is funded by Hollywood celebs, it’s led by a Hollywood producer and its finances are routed through an obscure tax firm in the Valley. Its treasurer and secretary are Washington D.C. pros. And a top funder of gun control agendas is also one of its directors.

None of this has much to do with Parkland. The mass shooting by a mentally ill man who should have been committed and arrested long before he carried out his massacre was a political opportunity.

Now that opportunity is being exploited to the hilt by a professional class of political activists.

Gun control activists wring their hands over the NRA. They claim that a special interest lobby is illegitimately thwarting the “will of the people”. Yet it’s the anti-gun groups that are invariably false fronts. It’s very clear who runs the NRA. But the latest fake anti-NRA group is a nebulous shadow. Out front are the high school students and out back are the professional activists.

And who is really behind the whole thing? Hollywood celebs, Bloomberg, a network of organizations?

We know who supports the NRA. You can see NRA stickers on car windows even in the bluest cities in the country. But who really supports the anti-gun political network? You’ll need to spend hours sorting through paperwork, following the trail, comparing addresses and researching names, to even get a hint.

That’s what an illegitimate lobby thwarting the will of the people really looks like.

Instead of March for Our Lives, maybe it’s time to March for the Truth?"

The kids, fighting for their fallen classmates, and the parents, fighting for the fallen kids, is what I saw at the March For Our Lives rally.

I didn't see any evidence to the supposed orchestrating of anyone by anyone during the rally. 

Applesauce

George_Horse said:

With what source could you provide, @YeshuaBought, that guns are the leading cause of death in America? And I may own firearms, but that does not mean I am a "gun-nut". A "gun-nut" would be a person who is overly obsessed with guns. 

how do you or anyone claim that "gun-nuts" are not pro life?
given the number of guns in the U.S. AND the number of gun owners it seems that what 99% or even more don't commit murders.  I didn't do the math but it seems an extremely large number of gun owners are not murderers, including whatever a gun nut is.  You may have not noticed but UeshuaBought starts threads and makes a post or 2 (sometimes none) and starts another.  She not really interested in open dialogue on the topics she starts so don't expect a reply, if you are lucky it will be short and pointless, if there's one at all.

John_C_87

@TTKDB ;

A right to bear arms is Constitutional by preamble. The second Amendment simply allows people who own fire-arms to gather under the 1st Amendment. The 2nd Amendment does reflect a modern day age the issue is there are those people who do not like the reflection they are shown as they are acting unconstitutional. Many of the laws past by legislation are by truth unconstitutional meaning they are not set by balance of basic principle and legal precedent. Political motivation is not a constitutional quality. 

The reality is that Gun violence is an unconstitutional action of death penalty unregulated by the legislated judicial separation. A basic principle that may be set in law within a united state has very little to do with ownership of property. 

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

Wrong.

"No, kids are NOT fighting for kids.  Kids are being used by Hollywood limo-liberals and leftist gun banners in the latest attempt to push an unpopular agenda.  Children are being politicized.  It's really sick and pathetic to witness.  As I've already noted, March for our Lives was hardly knee-jerk, it was carefully choreographed by a Hollywood producer backed by Bloomberg money, among others."

Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars? 

The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well? 

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Your bias website doesn't mean a thing to me, because, I saw and experienced the rally myself.

There wasn't anyone from Hollywood, at the rally directing anyone in how to act or in what to say.

You just jumped the Second Amendment shark, with your pro gun extremist narrative.

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

How many times do I have to say this???  No, I don't think the kids are liars, I think they're dupes.  Pawns being used leftist activists and politicians.  They're (you're) being preyed on by your naivete.  They (you) are only given one side of the debate.  Even when I post examples of the other side of debate here, you steadfastly ignore it.  So once again;

How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;

Deputy's teen son shoots at burglar at NW Harris home

Police ID 16-year-old fatally shot by 11-year-old Thursday afternoon

Child shoots intruder during home break-in

Are you going to tell these children they should not have been able to defend themselves and their sisters?  "If that is what you're maybe trying to do, it's grotesquely sad?"

I didn't see any evidence to the supposed orchestrating of anyone by anyone during the rally.

You either didn't read the article I posted which you quoted, or you couldn't comprehend it.

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

"How many times do I have to say this???  No, I don't think the kids are liars, I think they're dupes.  Pawns being used leftist activists and politicians.  They're (you're) being preyed on by your naivete.  They (you) are only given one side of the debate.  Even when I post examples of the other side of debate here, you steadfastly ignore it.  So once again;"

Do you have kids?

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta


Do you have kids?

Do you?

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

Wrong.

Double wrong

"No, kids are NOT fighting for kids.  Kids are being used by Hollywood limo-liberals and leftist gun banners in the latest attempt to push an unpopular agenda.  Children are being politicized.  It's really sick and pathetic to witness.  As I've already noted, March for our Lives was hardly knee-jerk, it was carefully choreographed by a Hollywood producer backed by Bloomberg money, among others."

Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars? 

Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control

The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well? 

Brainwashed...

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)

Your bias website doesn't mean a thing to me, because, I saw and experienced the rally myself.

Saw the March For Our Lives rally, which was once again a propaganda train to convince millions of people to push for more gun control

There wasn't anyone from Hollywood, at the rally directing anyone in how to act or in what to say.

You just jumped the Second Amendment shark, with your pro gun extremist narrative.

He isn't a pro-gun extremist. Stop that. It makes you look like an

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Showing BOTH sides of the coin. Something you FAIL to do!

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

Sigh

John_C_87

Let’s start with America has gun control. Where is the state of control found? At the start of World War II one nation was able to move through other nations with little or no resistance given to the common defense of those nations. Next to the Global Civil War of equality, and the World Wide Drug War, WWII is one of the highest U.S. casualty Wars the United States has fought in.

John_C_87

The First Right provided by the people, for the people, in United States Constitution is the united states of independence. It is today left with no direct Amendments. It might be added that even after a global civil war of equality fought as a religious war, no declaration of Independence has been put forward by woman as a united state.

“All woman are created equal.” In case the many people have forgotten the legal precedent for this statement in line of independence with all men. A King is a man by basic principle in relationship to monarchy, republic, democracy and law as a united state.

Evidence

CYDdharta said:

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

"This is what you want???  I'm sure you can understand why I would never support that.  The last thing we need is a word salad in the Bill of Rights."

Why not reach out to the survivors of the school mass shootings, and see how they might have a collective suggestion, in how to write the Second Amendment to reflect the murders of their lost classmates, and the school faculty members who were murdered as well? 

Reach out to ANY of them, and see what their recommendations might be?

Or I could reach to them, and direct them specifically to this forum, and pose the questions to them before some of the pro gun supporters of this forum? 

How long do you think that a group of survivors who have personally dealt with gun violence first hand, would need to write out a rough draft expressing their suggested amendments to the Second Amendment itself? 

My guess is, with their collective experiences, maybe not much time at all? 

How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  I'll wager you'll get a more unified response than from your school kids.  Kyle Kashuv is hardly alone in being a school shooting victim yet not bowing to the popular knee-jerk reaction of blaming an inanimate object for the crimes committed by unstable individuals.

@CYDdharta Yeah, about them "unstable individuals with firearms to defend themselves"

CYDdharta

@CYDdharta

Evidence said:

@CYDdharta Yeah, about them "unstable individuals with firearms to defend themselves"

How does that have anything at all to do with gun control?

Applesauce

@CYDdharta

my guess is, taking firearms away for lawful citizens still leaves these guys with guns.  it's going back to the ones who protest the police also call to disarm lawful citizens, which only leaves the police who they say (protest) needlessly kill people (blacks) with guns, it's a contradiction on their part.

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Where is your legitimate evidence, to support your pro gun bias claims?

Brainwashed?

Prove it, lets see some legitimate facts??

Not just YOUR individual pro gun self supporting points of view?

Back your word play up?

Did the ATF tell you the below? 

Did the FBI in the state that you live in, tell you the below?

Did the Police department in the town that you live in, tell you the below?

(Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars?)

Here's your statement:

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed rhetoric at?

Educate me, educate those survivors of those mass shootings, educate, the parent or parents who buried their son or daughter who was killed by a mass shooters gun violence??

Educate the March For Our Lives survivors, members, and those families with your legitimate brainwashed facts? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Showing BOTH sides of the coin. Something you FAIL to do!

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

The thing below, is not a legitimate answer 

"Sigh
 "

John_C_87

@Evidence

@CYDdharta

@TTDKB

Again our 1st United States Constitutional right is independence by seniority, when the shooter is held to blame by the known negligence of legislated law. Presented as a Bill of Right after an initial right has been set in place, it can become an unlawful application made by the alteration. Why civil litigation is only addresses the negligence of the one person in relationship to a common defense to the general welfare.

Which children, and how many children could be saved had there been a common defense allowed to be held in place. This does not only mean fire-arm a ballistic shield is also a common defense to the general welfare here. We have precedent in medical treatment with the understanding of truth with the deployment of wounds with first aid kits, fires with fire alarms, Wars with weapons. This restriction is also an act of negligence on the part of person and/or people and subject to law suit litigation.

The idea’s used as motivation presented by children are not expressing an experience of wisdom to promote prompt service to the impartial action of a Constitutional separation. It is a form of politicking for manufactured forms of justice and not constitutional practicality.

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Showing BOTH sides of the coin. Something you FAIL to do!

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

The thing below, is not a legitimate answer 

"Sigh
 "
Trying make a sense able argument towards you results in you asking off topic questions  

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

"I see you have completely ignored the point of my previous reply.  How about we reach out to the hundreds of thousands of people per year who have use a firearm to defend themselves and get their input.  You want to talk about kids fighting for kids?  Here are kids fighting for kids;"

So you're placing the stories about the kids that you shared, above the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence? 

Showing BOTH sides of the coin. Something you FAIL to do!

Is that how a pro gun extremist, views some of the kids now?

The thing below, is not a legitimate answer 

"Sigh
 "

The thing above is not a legitimate answer coming, as it does, from someone who refuses to acknowledge that there even is another side of the coin.  What kind of extremist does that make you?  Why do you place the kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence above those who have defended themselves and innocents around them? 

So you went to a March for our lives event.  Did you also go to a March for our Rights event to see the other side of the coin?

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

Where is your legitimate evidence, to support your pro gun bias claims?

The nonsensical questions you keep asking

Brainwashed?

You’re brainwashed by leftist media 

Prove it, lets see some legitimate facts??

The nonsense you say

Not just YOUR individual pro gun self supporting points of view?

Back your word play up?

Did the ATF tell you the below? 

Off topic 

Did the FBI in the state that you live in, tell you the below?

Off topic

Did the Police department in the town that you live in, tell you the below?

Off topic 

(Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars?)

Already asked this

Here's your statement:

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Already asked THIS

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987 

Where is your legitimate evidence, to support your pro gun bias claims?

(The nonsensical questions you keep asking.)

Nonsensical to you, because you don't any real world answers do you?

Nope you don't, all you have is your bias pro gun narrative to rely on right?

That makes more sense than your responses do?

Brainwashed?

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

Prove it Zombieguy.

Prove it, lets see some legitimate facts??

The nonsense you say

Not just YOUR individual pro gun self supporting points of view?

Back your word play up?

Did the ATF tell you the below? 

Its not off topic. The ATF, doesn't deal with gun violence crimes? 

"Off topic"

Did the FBI in the state that you live in, tell you the below.

Not off topic, the FBI hasn't dealt with gun violence before? 

"Off topic"

Did the Police department in the town that you live in, tell you the below?

No, it's not. The police in your town doesn't deal with gun violence? 

"Off topic"

(Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars?)

Already asked this

Here's your statement:

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Already asked THIS.

Yeah, it was a non answer.

Might you use this again?

"Sigh
 "

Prove I'm brainwashed?

Prove that some of those mass shootings gun violence survivors, are brainwashed? 

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987 

Where is your legitimate evidence, to support your pro gun bias claims?

(The nonsensical questions you keep asking.)

Nonsensical to you, because you don't any real world answers do you?

Nope you don't, all you have is your bias pro gun narrative to rely on right?

That makes more sense than your response does.

Brainwashed?

You’re brainwashed by leftist media 

Prove it, lets see some legitimate facts??

The nonsense you say

Not just YOUR individual pro gun self supporting points of view?

Back your word play up?

Did the ATF tell you the below? 

Off topic 

Did the FBI in the state that you live in, tell you the below?

Off topic

Did the Police department in the town that you live in, tell you the below?

Off topic 

(Are you calling those kids who survived a mass shooters gun violence, liars?)

Already asked this

Here's your statement:

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

Already asked THIS.

Yeah, it was a non answer.

Because your questions aren’t actually relevant to the topic

Might you use this again?

"Sigh
 "

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

The theme of the forum;

"Should America have gun control?"

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/gun-control-act

From their website:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions.

Assassinations and Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act.

Incorporated Acts of the GCA

• Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986
• Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993
• NICS Improvement Act of 2008"

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics#External-Resources

From their website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose"

Now, where is your proof, to support your claims? 

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

@Zombieguy1987:
Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed points of view at?

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Here's a thought, you could use
the provided websites, to see if the (March For Our Lives survivors or members) are mentioned on their websites? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

@Applesauce

Why do the two of you view the below points of view as irrelevant?

Do you two maybe view the ATF as irrelevant?

Do you two maybe view the FBI as irrelevant as well? 

The theme of the forum;

"Should America have gun control?"

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/gun-control-act

From their website:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions.

Assassinations And Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act.

Incorporated Acts of the GCA

• Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986
• Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993
• NICS Improvement Act of 2008"

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics#External-Resources

From their website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose"

Now, where is your proof, to support your claims? 

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

@Zombieguy1987: 
Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed points of view at?

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Here's a thought, you could use 
the provided websites, to see if the (March For Our Lives survivors or members) are mentioned on their websites?  

What say you, both of you? 

Applesauce

@TTKDB

Why do the two of you view the below points of view as irrelevant?

I view you as irrelevant, hence my lack of replies to you other than insults, take the hint.

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

The theme of the forum;

"Should America have gun control?"

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/gun-control-act

From their website:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions.

Assassinations and Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act.

Incorporated Acts of the GCA

• Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986
• Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993
• NICS Improvement Act of 2008"

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics#External-Resources

From their website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose"

Now, where is your proof, to support your claims? 

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

@Zombieguy1987:
Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed points of view at?

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Here's a thought, you could use
the provided websites, to see if the (March For Our Lives survivors or members) are mentioned on their websites? 

LOL, NICS points out yet again the futility of gun control. 

The report shows that, between 2008 and 2015, the FBI denied 556,496 gun purchases following background checks. During that time period, the report shows that only 254 false statements were even considered for prosecution, amounting to a 0.04 percent prosecution rate.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/prosecutions-lying-gun-background-checks-fall-new-low/

Why do we need new laws when the laws already on the books aren't being enforced?

TTKDB

@Applesauce

Again, why do you, maybe view the ATF as irrelevant?

And why do you, maybe view the FBI as irrelevant? 

"I view you as irrelevant, hence my lack of replies to you other than insults, take the hint."

Take what hints?  


What an original way to dodge the questions, addressed to you in regards to the (ATF/ Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) and the (FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation)?

Applesauce

@TTKDB
you are making false allegations as to my views, cease and desist your assumptions.

Zombieguy1987

TTKDB said:

@Zombieguy1987

@Applesauce

Why do the two of you view the below points of view as irrelevant?

Do you two maybe view the ATF as irrelevant?

Do you two maybe view the FBI as irrelevant as well? 

The theme of the forum;

"Should America have gun control?"

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/gun-control-act

From their website:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions.

Assassinations And Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act.

Incorporated Acts of the GCA

• Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986
• Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993
• NICS Improvement Act of 2008"

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics#External-Resources

From their website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose"

Now, where is your proof, to support your claims? 

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

@Zombieguy1987: 
Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed points of view at?

You can't come up with an effective argument other than questions!

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Off topic. N.E.X.T.!

Here's a thought, you could use 
the provided websites, to see if the (March For Our Lives survivors or members) are mentioned on their websites?  

What say you, both of you? 

TTKDB

@Applesauce

"you are making false allegations as to my views, cease and desist your assumptions."

Show me, where I've done any such thing? 

TTKDB

@Zombieguy1987

Those shared articles are both in relation to the theme of the forum.

'You can't come up with an effective argument other than questions!

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Off topic. N.E.X.T.!"

The words are in the title:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions. 

Those articles are very on topic, despite your views of them?

TTKDB

Should America have gun control?

The United States, has current laws in regards to gun control already in place, (The Gun Control Act of 1968.)

"Assassinations And Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act."

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)"

"The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose" 

Applesauce

TTKDB said:

@Applesauce

"you are making false allegations as to my views, cease and desist your assumptions."

Show me, where I've done any such thing? 

Again, why do you, maybe view the ATF as irrelevant?
And why do you, maybe view the FBI as irrelevant? 

Show all the readers where I ever made or eluded to those claims you made.
since I have never addressed or discussed the ATF or FBI you are a .

TTKDB

More information in regards to the gun control conversation.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/04/house-dems-gun-background-checks-bill-1081476 ;

From the article:

"House Dems to introduce gun background checks bill on Tuesday"

“In communities across America, courageous survivors, families and young advocates are showing outstanding courage and persistence in demanding an end to the horrific scourge of gun violence in our nation,” Pelosi said in a statement. “It is an honor to join Congressman Mike Thompson and former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords to answer their call by taking the first step to pass commonsense background checks – which 97 percent of the American people support.”

"House Democrats will introduce their proposal to require universal backgrounds checks for gun sales on Tuesday, the eighth anniversary of former Rep. Gabby Gifford’s shooting, according Democratic lawmakers and aides."

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Rep. Mike Thompson (Calif.) — who heads up a Democratic task force on gun violence — will join Giffords in introducing the bill, which will be dubbed “H.R. 8” in honor of the Arizona Democratic lawmaker."

"Giffords nearly died in the Jan. 8, 2011, shooting in Tucson, Arizona, which left six people dead and 15 wounded. She resigned from Congress in January 2012."

“Since the shooting at Sandy Hook, the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force has been fighting for a chance to pass legislation that will help save lives,” Thompson said in a statement. “Finally, with our new majority that ran on helping to prevent gun violence, we will introduce a bipartisan, universal background checks bill. We will hold hearings, we will have a vote, and this legislation will finally pass the House.”

“In communities across America, courageous survivors, families and young advocates are showing outstanding courage and persistence in demanding an end to the horrific scourge of gun violence in our nation,” Pelosi said in a statement. “It is an honor to join Congressman Mike Thompson and former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords to answer their call by taking the first step to pass commonsense background checks – which 97 percent of the American people support.”

Thompson said the bill would be bipartisan, but declined to reveal the GOP sponsors of the measure at this time. An aide to Rep. Peter King later said the New York Republican will be an original co-sponsor of the legislation, as he has in the past."

"The Democratic proposal would require federal background checks on all gun sales, including private transactions. There will be some small exemptions to those checks, such as transfers between family members, or temporary use of a gun for hunting. Gun-control groups estimate that roughly one-fifth or more of gun sales don't include background checks."

"But with a Democratic majority in the House now, passage of the bill is nearly guaranteed, and marks the first major congressional action on gun control in years."

"However, Senate Republicans will almost certainly refuse to act on the bill, with support from the National Rifle Association for their position. And President Donald Trump closely aligned himself with the NRA and gun-rights groups during the last election."

John_C_87

None of you are addressing the actual meat of debate Constitutional right to independence. The United States Citizens first Constitutional Right.  By doing this you are taking part in allowing conduct to be united against the United State that is weighed by constitutional law. Fabricating additional law is not directly representing the allegations made on a right to united independence.

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

More information in regards to the gun control conversation.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/04/house-dems-gun-background-checks-bill-1081476 ;

From the article:

"House Dems to introduce gun background checks bill on Tuesday"

“In communities across America, courageous survivors, families and young advocates are showing outstanding courage and persistence in demanding an end to the horrific scourge of gun violence in our nation,” Pelosi said in a statement. “It is an honor to join Congressman Mike Thompson and former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords to answer their call by taking the first step to pass commonsense background checks – which 97 percent of the American people support.”

"House Democrats will introduce their proposal to require universal backgrounds checks for gun sales on Tuesday, the eighth anniversary of former Rep. Gabby Gifford’s shooting, according Democratic lawmakers and aides."

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Rep. Mike Thompson (Calif.) — who heads up a Democratic task force on gun violence — will join Giffords in introducing the bill, which will be dubbed “H.R. 8” in honor of the Arizona Democratic lawmaker."

"Giffords nearly died in the Jan. 8, 2011, shooting in Tucson, Arizona, which left six people dead and 15 wounded. She resigned from Congress in January 2012."

“Since the shooting at Sandy Hook, the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force has been fighting for a chance to pass legislation that will help save lives,” Thompson said in a statement. “Finally, with our new majority that ran on helping to prevent gun violence, we will introduce a bipartisan, universal background checks bill. We will hold hearings, we will have a vote, and this legislation will finally pass the House.”

“In communities across America, courageous survivors, families and young advocates are showing outstanding courage and persistence in demanding an end to the horrific scourge of gun violence in our nation,” Pelosi said in a statement. “It is an honor to join Congressman Mike Thompson and former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords to answer their call by taking the first step to pass commonsense background checks – which 97 percent of the American people support.”

Thompson said the bill would be bipartisan, but declined to reveal the GOP sponsors of the measure at this time. An aide to Rep. Peter King later said the New York Republican will be an original co-sponsor of the legislation, as he has in the past."

"The Democratic proposal would require federal background checks on all gun sales, including private transactions. There will be some small exemptions to those checks, such as transfers between family members, or temporary use of a gun for hunting. Gun-control groups estimate that roughly one-fifth or more of gun sales don't include background checks."

"But with a Democratic majority in the House now, passage of the bill is nearly guaranteed, and marks the first major congressional action on gun control in years."

"However, Senate Republicans will almost certainly refuse to act on the bill, with support from the National Rifle Association for their position. And President Donald Trump closely aligned himself with the NRA and gun-rights groups during the last election."

So the Dems want even more background checks that won't get prosecuted.  Great idea.  This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment.

TTKDB

@CYDdharta

"So the Dems want even more background checks that won't get prosecuted.  Great idea.  This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment."

Have you ever had your weapons confiscated, or have you ever watched a national news media outlet news story, that explicitly stated that gun owners who own guns, have had their own weapons confiscated from them, ever? 

Have the below words from you, ever materialized before via the national news media outlets) 

"This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment."

If it has occurred, could you, please, share the link to that national news story? 

CYDdharta

TTKDB said:

@CYDdharta

"So the Dems want even more background checks that won't get prosecuted.  Great idea.  This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment."

Have you ever had your weapons confiscated, or have you ever watched a national news media outlet news story, that explicitly stated that gun owners who own guns, have had their own weapons confiscated from them, ever? 

Have the below words from you, ever materialized before via the national news media outlets) 

"This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment."

If it has occurred, could you, please, share the link to that national news story? 

Fortunately it hasn't happened to me yet.  But then I don't live in New Jersey. 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/12/gun_confiscation_begins_in_new_jersey.html

As far as registration records being used for future confiscations; see Australia, England, South Africa, etc.  Anywhere where guns have been outlawed and confiscated en mass by the state has been preceded with gun registration.

Applesauce

@CYDdharta

I haven't been in a bad car accident yet, but I still wear my seat belt and drive carefully, nothing ever happens, until it does.  The laws they keep trying to enact is their way to pave the road for disarming the citizens.  The bullet database they kept in Maryland was one such attempt.  Cost tax payers over 5 million I think it was, and never solved ONE single case.

CYDdharta

Applesauce said:

@CYDdharta

I haven't been in a bad car accident yet, but I still wear my seat belt and drive carefully, nothing ever happens, until it does.  The laws they keep trying to enact is their way to pave the road for disarming the citizens.  The bullet database they kept in Maryland was one such attempt.  Cost tax payers over 5 million I think it was, and never solved ONE single case.

LOL; Maryland's bullet registry, it never had a chance of being anything more than a money pit. Gun registries, bullet registries, don't solve crimes.  Canada dumped $2.7 billion into their gun registry and it didn't solve a single murder.  Trudeau finally had to admit it was a complete failure.  Registries aren't about solving crime, they're about finding out who the legal gun owners are.  Nothing good comes from such a thing.

TTKDB

"Should America have gun control?"

There's already gun control in the United States, since 1968.

@CYDdharta

If there is ever an actual national crisis, where this is happening:

And the words from you below, become a reality, 

"This is all about creating a backdoor gun registry for future confiscation efforts and eliminating the 2nd Amendment."

And any law abiding gun owner, or gun owners, for whatever reasons their own weapons become (confiscated) because a backdoor gun registry became a reality, and at the same time the Second Amendment becomes eliminated, based upon the scenario you illustrated with your words.

I will make it point to go to Washington DC, to see the pro gun rally, that was organized to protest the hypothetical elimination of the Second Amendment, and the law abiding gun owners who hypothetically had their weapons taken from them? 

TTKDB

@Applesauce:

The below was stated to Zombieguy 1987:

@Zombieguy1987 

The theme of the forum;

"Should America have gun control?"

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/gun-control-act

From their website:

"Gun Control Act

Gun Control Act of 1968

This Legislation regulated interstate and foreign commerce in firearms, including importation, "prohibited persons", and licensing provisions.

Assassinations And Gun Control

After the assassinations of President John Kennedy, Attorney General Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the Gun Control Act is passed and imposes stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry, establishes new categories of firearms offenses, and prohibits the sale of firearms and ammunition to felons and certain other prohibited persons. It also imposes the first Federal jurisdiction over "destructive devices," including bombs, mines, grenades and other similar devices. Congress reorganizes ATU into the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD) and delegates to them the enforcement of the Gun Control Act.

Incorporated Acts of the GCA

• Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986
• Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993
• NICS Improvement Act of 2008"

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics#External-Resources

From their website:

"National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. 

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 230 million such checks have been made, leading to more than 1.3 million denials.

NICS is located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia. It provides full service to FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. Upon completion of the required Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Form 4473, FFLs contact the NICS Section via a toll-free telephone number or electronically on the Internet through the NICS E-Check System to request a background check with the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473. NICS is customarily available 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Please be advised that calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose"

Now, where is your proof, to support your claims? 

"You’re brainwashed by leftist media"

"Not liars, but they're being brainwashed by leftist media to push gun control."

(The 200,000 people who voluntarily went to the event, are liars as well?)

"Brainwashed..."

I was there, are you calling me a as well?

"Brainwashed (Slightly ignorant at that)"

@Zombieguy1987: 
Where is your real factual evidence to support your brainwashed points of view at?

From the ATF, FBI, the police department in your own town?

Here's a thought, you could use 
the provided websites, to see if the (March For Our Lives survivors or members) are mentioned on their websites?  

And all of the above was viewed as (!) irrelevant by Zombieguy 1987 and you as well?

Do you recall the above?