Give Me Your Best Examples of Contradictions in the Bible

maxx

again peter 2.4 has nothing to do with mary or her birth. neither does any of the other verses you showed. Gabriel was not a fallen angel. you are not connecting any fallen angel with mary nor of her birth. You are not connecting your dots. you said lucifer was the father of jesus andi asked you to show how, yet the verses you quote do not do so. quoting verses about fallen angels are just verses about fallen angels. @John_C_87

John_C_87

@maxx
Peter 2:4 
 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b] to be held for judgment;
The proverb decribes GOD punishing angels and sending them to hell to be held in judgment as you did not sound sure that angels had been sent to hell as lucifer .serpent, devil had been cast out of heaven. Correct we do know Gabrial is not a fallen angel and appears to Mary "you said lucifer was the father of jesus" no, what I am saying is that in self-evident truth the proverbs can be telling us the devil is more likely the father of the child Mary is to conceive then Josoph. What Gabrial does say that makes you assume GOD is creator of Jesus in a way which mimics humanity is that Mary should be stoned to death but it is to be stopped. The fact that I am addressing is Gabriel is "possibly" relieving GOD of command though in fact is in fact relieveing Law of its command over Mary. The reasons are not spoken to Mary but the women is in fear and the self-evident truth Garbiel states are to protect Mary and her son from herself and with question the childs father.

I asked you to show how, yet the verses you quote do not do so. 
I have to correct you here maxx to point out something in a suttle way to you and others reading our debate. You are asking to be guided to understand self-evidnet truth, what you must presume as fact at this point is that GOD is like a stone that rest on solid ground. Do you agree a stone will not, a stone cannot impregnate any women. Mary ever given extra knolledge to contradict other lesser truths can not explain who the stone has emprgnated her and it is this reason why it is said as a truth though neither whole truth or self evidnet truth a magic seed as made Mary pregnant.

We may have to drill deeper into written demonstration of just how a self-evident truth is brought into proposition by the start of the Bible. The wording that allows us to be introduced to the battle in void, the War between Good and Evil. Self-evident truth states. A women who agrees to be my mate, a man's wife if to become pregnant and bear child is then the childs mother and my mother, as a self-evident truth. She may not be will to admit as fact she is now my mother and only what to be know to others as the childs mother. As though it is true being called her husbans mother is a crime against law. In whole truth under self-evident truth a wife, a women, my spouce is never to be my only mother as in equality of all women my birth mother is to be no equal with my spoouce separated only by the act of birth, the pain and risk to death which a mother has endored for me, or sibling of me.

After thousands of years we worship GOD not to undermind Gabriel it is to honor self-evident truth. I have nothing to prove to you and knolledge you gain from the center of Eden like any pioson will lead to your death.

you said lucifer was the father of jesus and I asked you to show how
In whole truth you ask I dishonor Mary, and bring dishonor to Gabriel. I limit my own attention to question held at liberty. 

maxx

you keep saying that more-than-likely lucifer was jesus's father, yet this is a debate site; so i ask for evidence; if not, at least logical reasoning. There is not even a HINT than any fallen angel had anything at all to do with mary, no matter how sideways you look at the scriptures. I fail to see where you even got the idea.  @John_C_87

John_C_87

@maxx
you keep saying that more-than-likely lucifer was jesus's father, yet this is a debate site; so i ask for evidence; if not, at least logical reasoning.
Yes I have said it is more lilkey the devil is the father of Jesus as it cannot be GOD. It isn't realy honest of me to say lucifer as lucifer does not exist anymore, and did not in fact exist when Mary had been blessed with a magic seed, from the grassy knoll.

There is not even a HINT than any fallen angel had anything at all to do with mary, no matter how sideways you look at the scriptures. There is more than a hint as it is impossible for GOD to product the child of Mary in the way described the reality here maxx is that you are using the proposition of knolledge to describe a possiblilaty GOD might be a father to suport a creation of religion over honor and worship of GOD.

I fail to see where you even got the idea
The logical reason for Gabriel to lie is made clear the angel lied to protect both Mary and the child of a punishment which would grow out of control due to the real father of Jesus. In the interpretation of your knowledge maxx you do not include what is part of Genesis. What part of Genesis do you not understand in knowledge you might but do not ask. How self-evident truth plays into the battle of the War of Good versus Evil. The serpent is evil Mary and the child Mary bears to the world are good. Again, there is law and there is command and order.

I do not believe it is impossible for GOD to bear a child with a woman. I know as fact it cannot ever happen that the one GOD bear a child with a woman. It is Joseph or it is someone else, and there is by whole truth no other choice. You might as well just call me sexist to say push this by what I knew, and still know, GOD in Genesis is described as creating women from the flesh and bone of man, the flesh and bone of Adam! The piece of flesh and bone is called rib. I find this amusing as Maxx what is taking place is that you are eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge to look outside the parameters of self-evident truth to say because Adam disobeys a direct order from GOD. It is GOD by knowledge who is said to suddenly now slum and rape human women. I can be wrong, and the devil is not the only possible father of a child of Mary however scripture and gospel go on to say Jesus went on to display some powers that might suggest an angelic mix of some kind. I have not devoted myself to memorizing scripture and proverbs to preach.

I am proud of you maxx for in a way you are demonstrating how men and women alike, might be like angels, start a battle which escalates between us to become a Great War between, a battle of Good and Evil with nothing more than knowledge as the abundance of understanding obscuring whole truth and peace. All I am to prove as you say is how GOD as one GOD ever, never, in any way get a woman pregnant, or would want to have the have female companionship to do so. Be it magic seed or other means, I know GOD as fact, unlike other who only know a belief to call god held in possibility by abuse of interpritation.

Re-Written 7:23 pm  6/22/2023

I appologize as some of what I write if not all and rewrite is strong and can be brash...There is efforts taken to self-edit as proverbs are found, re-found, and new witness accounts set in scripture are read.

maxx

first john, for the sake of the debate, we must assume that the bible is true. Now, EVEN if  it was not god responsible for the virgin birth, it does not in no way mean that it was due to a fallen angel. There is no logical reason to assume so.  since it was not god, it must have been some human who in which mary covered the truth up.  If it was not god, it would seem that this would be more logical than lucifer. Let us look at the reasoning lucifer may have had. to deceive the whole world into thinking that jesus was a savior.  this would mean that every single prophecy in the OT about jesus and his future birth is wrong.; or rather a lie created by lucifer. It would also mean that what happened to jesus was originally created by lucifer. It would also mean that what is written about new Jerusalem coming to earth is a fabrication implanted into the writer(s) to deceive everyone. and begs the question if jesus knew he was the son of lucifer. This is what i gather you are saying. So this would mean, there is no true savior. A good but far fetched theory; yet it is akin to saying that the entire bible was a fabrication, because satan implanted the words to write in to the minds of the writers. This idea seems centered that you find it impossible that god played a hand into marys birth. John, seriously? I prefer the idea than some human other than Joeseph hand a hand in it and the affair was covered up. @John_C_87

John_C_87

first john, for the sake of the debate, we must assume that the bible is true.

Not that we must assume the Proverbs are true only that there may be only one explanation as whole truth that explains the maxim. By the way a maxim is a rule of conduct, pithy meaning having substance and point. There is no assumption to be made about the Bible in that context. Sorry you are offering fruit from the tree of knowledge which grows at the center of the garden of Eden. I have already eaten Apple smoke serpent with a grilled pear from a different part of the garden. Following orders, having the capability to follow orders is a matter of substance and a point to be made a point many people overlook.

It would also mean that what is written about new Jerusalem coming to earth is a fabrication implanted into the writer(s) to deceive everyone.

I am sticking to contradiction in the Bible and am trying very hard not to take this to a antisemetic place whereas the focus is twards a entire race of people it means nothing of the kind. Though it sounds like it is what I have suggested, I say clearly now it is not. There was a greater evil at play being addressed by Gabriel. The first fact made by a point set by the maxim itself, who we now are calling lucifer is gone, he does not exist and the name of the Angel had been changed to another name along with a title know to have been Angel. That alone may be logic as reason enough for a agnel who has left the grace of other angels to become brash and vindictive towards humans might wish to implicate them in the wrongs which have brought his grace to an end. Looking to still destroy everything created by GOD. The second point of maxim is that Gabriel did not directly lie but instead dammed or held back the whole truth from Mary. So as to relieve her of command of certain what? Knowledge, this information had placed her in a state of fear and holding it as truth places her in danger. That order hanging over her meant her death along with the child’s death knowing the whole truth may have driven a woman to end her own life and the child’s life when they had a destiny on earth. By self-evident truth Gabriel reacts to a series of events not one event like the interpretation of contradiction in the bibles many versions make. The fertilization of a egg of a women by magic the whole creation of women was an act of a power of GOD, self-evident truth. Addressing a fact of concern over who might be the child’s true father as it is known in the proverb explains a great deal of what the logic of Gabriel had been. Third, Jesus is to grow and bring a trait that had the Angel lucifer cast out of heaven as a serpent GOD does not share the purpose of such emotions like forgiveness or lust with humans. GOD cannot and it is not by belief or choice it simply is not in the nature of self-evidnt truth to become Artificial intelligence.

This idea seems centered that you find it impossible that god played a hand into marys birth. John, seriously.

It is impossible for GOD to father a child in the way that is suggested to have taken place with Mary. There is a level of education taking place between us I do not think you understand. As a point in a maxim, it is not Marie’s birth, according to GOD Marie's birth is not that one which had created Jesus, it is the birth of Jesus which had created the child of Mary. A woman gives birth or she is born. Marie's pregnacy led to the birth of Juses. You give good reason as to why you will not understand truth which may grow to become whole truths, self-evident truths are however a point of Good vs Evil on many accounts. Who is the owner of birth by fact? The one who goes through life with a birthday.........is that who? 

What is not impossible by scripture is that Angels may intervien in truth to prevail a will of GOD. So to say...I am really at a impass as the room topic askes of a contradiction in the Bible, witnessed. Observing a rather unpopular contradiction and having that knolledge does not help the cause of honor and honesty, as Mary may have in her travles without intending to by law may have been required to participate in limited ways in events a chased women would not morally do. A offtake of what happens in Vegus stays in Vegus or what happens within a Empires City limits might best stay withing the limits of that Empire.

Changed by writer at 12:56 pm 6/25/2023

maxx

I stand by the statement that we have to assume that the bible is true in order to debate the issue, for if it is not, then there are no contradictions. A true contradiction is two statements that are in conflict with each other; both of which claim to be true. leave out your darn constitutional ideas in this debate; it has no bearing. You are not even actually answering by points and questions; so i will ask another. If it is impossible as you say, for god to give birth to mary(in which you never expplained why), then what makes you think it is possible for lucifer to have done so? @John_C_87

John_C_87

I stand by the statement that we have to assume that the bible is true in order to debate the issue, for if it is not, then there are no contradictions
Truth is not whole truth....truth is also not self-evident truth.

 so i will ask another. If it is impossible as you say, for god to give birth to mary(in which you never expplained why)

In the King James Version of the Bible along with other versions it is GOD that gives names to accomplishment of substance as a self-evident truth throughout Genesis. This is because GOD is self-evident truth it is not an angel, or something that could be confused as human like. We are created in the image of GOD. Humanity is created in the image of self-evident truth. A matter of concern Maxx about contradiction in the Bible is that it exists even though all accounts are moving closer and closer with every new version to having been told by only one side. Again, it may be nothing, but it can be seen as a warning about the declaration of whole truth. 

Leave out your darn constitutional ideas in this debate; it has no bearing. I have not included the American United States Constitution. While a person's own constitution is something all together different maxx

the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body

Constitution Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

then what makes you think it is possible for lucifer to have done so?

An angel is a thing of substance they had been a form of creature in Genesis they came before man and women. GOD as self-evident truth separated one angel for other angels lucifer became the serpent changing it status as title In scripture itself maxx. that is\the logical reason.

Changed by writer 8:20 pm 6/24/2023

maxx

you are making a statement that has no backing; that god is self evident truth. Even if he were, it has no bearing on his ability to give mary a child in the manner the bible describes. No where in the bible does it say that god lacks substance. even if he had none, and we assume the bible is true, then he can create his own substance, if needed. OK, now let me agree with you one second, that god had no part in it. From that point, you are jumping the tracks in saying a fallen angel  did so. why should it have been? It could have been Gabrieal for all we know. It may have been the neighbor next door. She may have sat on a chamber pot that had semen on it. You are making little sense in saying since god could not have done it for Some reason; then lucifer had to have done it. Also, this is not even a contradiction unless you can actually show the conflicting statement that shows or states that someone other than god had a part in it. @John_C_87

John_C_87

@maxx

Even if he were, it has no bearing on his ability to give Mary a child in the manner the bible describes

First...off it GOD were, not if it he... It! It GOD.
Second it is like saying the tree of knowledge in the center of the garden of Eden got Mary pregnant. Knowledge describes who got Mary Pregnant and how step by step a process took place, the tree of knowledge does not do the copulation necessary to ensure the seed has been fertilized resting in Mary.

No where in the bible does it say that God lacks substance

Are you okay Maxx? We do not need to debate this if it hurts you emotionally. It is not my intention, and I can see how it can be emotionally damaging. Genesis describes GOD lacks specifically the substance to use female fertility to create humans. This is made self-evident as GOD instead of using a woman to give birth to Adam GOD creates Adam from the Earth and dust. We must also look at the principles of angels themselves being masculine.

From that point, you are jumping the tracks in saying a fallen angel did so. Why should it have been? It could have been Gabriel for all we know. It may have been the neighbor next door. She may have sat on a chamber pot that had semen on it. You are making little sense in saying since God could not have done it for Some reason; then lucifer had to have done it. The reason again is self-evident as a lord has "assigned powers" by taken authority over land and in Genesis GOD all but admits the loss of authority as Adam had disobeyed an order by GOD, Adam and 
Eve to obey the serpent along with what will be humanity if they do not take up much more caution. In for site, self-evident truth, GOD, goes on to warn that the serpent is cunning and crafty and will stop at nothing to deceive people to obtain what evil most desires from them. In the Old Testament it is said GOD is evil and kills though the fact of the matter remained that self-evident truth did not kill and still does not kill or impregnate women in new versions. Though an idea is implanted anyway for alternative motives that are not described in proverb to be unnecessary to GOD.

If I may say you are missing a much larger overview as a picture in the understandings of the Bible, that is an Angel is said to be masculine though in art a female version of these creatures can be suggested in the Heavens. It is GOD who is said to have limited the roll of a female gender as an angel of the heavens. What no one answers to is the limit a distinction a power of rank and authority only as self-evident truth or is it something else. Is it information which is kept private as it relates to only the Heavens and not earth. GOD as a lord must appear to be capable of human emotion otherwise humanity must take blame for all its own i'll deeds. This is something self-evident truth teaches all who can learn, not all who care only to set limit of information and call it learn.

John_C_87

It could have been Gabrieal for all we know.
Has Gabriel appeard to anymore women?

maxx

HA ha ha. sorry but i had to laugh. saying god had not the ability to create female the way he did adam is a fallacy. It is like saying that god did not have the ability to create names for the animals so he had adam do so. There were no women avaible (aside from LILLIth) but that's another story) to give birth to adam. You are picking at parts of the bible, trying to connect them elsewhere. according to the bible od is male, so he could easily gave birth to anyone. I can not agree that god did not perform the miracle of her birth; you have shown no evidence; you are making false assumptions, and trying to connect verses that are no to be connected. also you are still not connecting lucifer or any fallen angel to mary.You asked about Gabrieal and i answer, aside from eve how many women has lucifer appeared before. Sir john, you are wrong and should know it; in fact I think you do.  It is a good theory, yet has no substance other than your idea of god not able to produce the virgin birth; so from that idea alone you developed something that has no basis on what the bible states. There is also no contradiction because there are no conflicting points on what the bible says about the birth. anyone can take a key issue from the bible and make a theory of it. I could do the same. What you are doing is akin to me pointing out that the war in heaven can not be real because satan was banished to earth and can no longer achieve the ability to conduct war except for hee on earth.   @John_C_87

John_C_87

HA ha ha. sorry but i had to laugh. saying god had not the ability to create female the way he did adam is a fallacy. Your Bible describes GOD does not create Adam from earth / Dust? GOD did  not create Even from the rib of Adam?
Fallacy : a false or mistaken idea

Fallacy Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

You are picking at parts of the bible, trying to connect them elsewhere. according to the bible god is male, so he could easily gave birth to anyone 
The Bible describes GOD and Angels as masculine, again, the Bible being a list of proverbs and maxims, if we are to look at the Old Testament as well, not literally a book more like series, a collection in amounts of truth of several kinds. GOD Easily gives birth to a man, yes, form earth or dust like how Adam had been borne, from the masculine, the question is made is Jesus a man?

you are making false assumptions, and trying to connect verses that are no to be connected. Did you or did you not say we must understand the Bible as telling the truth, as maxim? Arre you correcting yourself and saying it is only true if you are allowed to chose proverbs and maxims to suport limited tuth and not whole truth?

You asked about Gabrieal and i answer, aside from eve how many women has lucifer appeared before Gabreil has visted three others maxx.
Had the Bible been true, as proverb many women and men have met the serpoent. They simply might have bel;ieve the deseption of charm for any number of reasons thinklingstill  it was GOD and not the serpent. If we are still to assume the Bible was true. Is that the case Maxx?

John_C_87

12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
    by the blood of the Lamb
    and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
    as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
    and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

maxx

correct. 1 plus 1 does not equal three. also those verses you posted has nothing to do with satan being the one who gave the birth. No where in the bible does it point out that anyone other than god had anything at all to do with it. Mathew 1:18 clearly says by the holy spirit. Read luke, chapter 1, verses 30 ; 35.  It says the holy spirit. John 17. Every passage concerning his birth or who he was clearly says he was the son of god. If and ONLY if there were a passage that states otherwise, then there would be a contradiction. Yet there is not, and there is not any passage or verses that you have been quoting  that says satan had a hand in it. Take the quotes on revelation you just posted. All in says is that satan wanted the child. @John_C_87

John_C_87

There is a clear intention to try and describe GOD as the father of Jesus
If and ONLY if there were a passage that states otherwise, then there would be a contradiction
The contradiction in the bible in relationship to Jesus being the son of GOD is made by the description of Mary having to give birth to Jesus at all. This action is describng a punishment for not following orders of GOD that has been past down, handed down to Mary from Adam and Eve. In all accounts uncessesary by GOD and only servers a purpose to  people inhumanity.

John17: Please be more specific as to a passage.
 Most if not all of  John 17 is Jesus being wintessed as claiming he is the son of GOD, preying for it to be true, not fact that GOD is his father, GOD is the father of all men and women, not one man, never one man. Describing a claim of sin of Jesus made against gabriels as a angel for the telling of his mbirth to his mother, is not a wrong of GOD's and not describing GOD as his father. Gabriel is relieve GOD of a command taht would have made GOD responsible for the death of Mary and Jesus. I can say clearly your ideas and interpritation are not totally without encouragement from proverb. However that is part of the womder of provers and gospel they are to people become personally involved. I think the Bible is begining to lose a lot of charm and luster as the stories are altured by less competent writers of our time. 47 scollars are roomored to ahve worked on the collection of tranlsations of proverbs.
 
 Matthew 1:18

18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about[a]: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.

In truth you can say or claim this as interpretation Mary was found pregnant before she had a direct connection to Joseph, but as whole truth it can mean as little as just the proposition presented by Gabriel Mary's pregnancy was call as prediction by Gabriel before it happened. Which is what really happened in the Bible. I am not suggesting that Mary had planned to give herself willing to evil only that she was deceived to do so by evil itself.

Under your condition of interpitation had Mary mothered a child from GOD all would know without doubt Maxx. The words describing such nevent as self-evident truth would read or go something like this.... GOD creating a male child from the earth, waters, with all of heavens, adding from the sin of humanity the blood of Marie’s womb, presented Mary at her feet a child to which she was instructed to call by name Jesus, as to treat love and treat the child has his and her own and Joseph’s. For there is not shame, crime, or sin in the creation of this child with GOD.

" I can deal with fate, but not the littel things." 

Danny Elfman. Little things.