Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?

IdolRocks

@Dee ;You say .......Oh maybe it isn't nonsense. How about you don't automatically try to dismiss it as nonsense? 

My reply ......It is I’ve read it several times. What do you mean “automatically” how do you come this conclusion?

You have read it several times and you have done what to try and understand the so-called contradictions or something that seem like nonsense? Have you done anything at all to try and understand those? For the so-called contradictions, have you gone to Apologetic Websites and read the explanations explaining how the so-called contradiction is not really a contradiction, but usually a failure to read the context of the verse(s) correctly, which is one option among many others. 

Dee

@IdolRocks

You say ......”Some “white”2 Christians have used the Bible to convince themselves that owning slaves is okay and that slaves should obey their “earthly masters.” Regrettably and shamefully, “white” Christians have frequently taken verses of Scripture out of context to justify the most despicable acts. In some cases, it could be argued that these people were not really Christians; they were not really born again but were adhering to a form of Christianity for traditional or national reasons. Nevertheless, we have to concede that there are genuine “white” Christians who have believed the vilest calumnies about the nature of “black” people and have sought support for their disgraceful views from the pages of the Bible."

My reply .....Slavery was common place amongst Christians and the Bible was used to justify it , you now resort to a popular fallacy much favored by Christians as a defense

No true Scotsman fallacy ......You are doing the same by saying no true Christian would accept slavery .....

 .....Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."

Person A: "But no trueScotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

Time magazine.....

Out of the more than three quarters of a million words in the Bible, Christian slaveholders—and, if asked, most slaveholders would have defined themselves as Christian—had two favorites texts, one from the beginning of the Old Testament and the other from the end of the New Testament. In the words of the King James Bible, which was the version then current, these were, first, Genesis IX, 18–27:

“And the sons of Noah that went forth from the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole world overspread. And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: and he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.”

Despite some problems with this story—What was so terrible about seeing Noah drunk? Why curse Canaan rather than Ham? How long was the servitude to last? Surely Ham would have been the same color as his brothers?—it eventually became the foundational text for those who wanted to justify slavery on Biblical grounds. In its boiled-down, popular version, known as “The Curse of Ham,” Canaan was dropped from the story, Ham was made black, and his descendants were made

The other favorite came from the Apostle Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians, VI, 5-7: “Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; not with eye-service, as men-pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.” (Paul repeated himself, almost word for word, in the third chapter of his Epistle to the Colossians.)

The rest of the Old Testament was often mined by pro-slavery polemicists for examples proving that slavery was common among the Israelites. The New Testament was largely ignored, except in the negative sense of pointing out that nowhere did Jesus condemn slavery, although the story of Philemon, the runaway who St. Paul returned to his master, was often quoted. It was also generally accepted that the Latin word servus, usually translated as servant, really meant slave.

You say ......For the simple fact that it is merely your opinion. That does not make it right or wrong. It is simply wrong in your opinion. 

My reply ......It does make it right or wrong for me as I have lived by treating others as I wish to be treated also the laws of my land are there to protect others from abuses and mistreatment.

You on the other hand have only your interpretation of the words of god which led to justifying slavery , the crusades and the burning and torturing of others who chose not to be Christians.

You say .....Morality cannot be subjective for the simple reason that it does not work. The article below explains more. 

My reply .....It sure does work some of the most peaceful countries in the world are secular some of the most violent are religious , Your “objective morality “ is based on nothing but your opinion of what’s written in the Bible which varies from person to person and religion to religion 

You say ......I don't deny that slavery happened in the Bible. The fact that it happened though does not mean that God approves of it. Remember God did not like Divorce but it happened, so God dealt with it happening. Also, there are many instances where the Bible records something happening but does not condone it. 

My reply ....God and Jesus totally accepted and approved of slavery your denial is amusing .......

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Jesus totally approved of slavery .....

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it.  “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly.  Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.”(Luke)

You say .....50 contradictions? How about just 1 or 2 to start? Yes Christians have used the Bible to justify slavery and they took the verses out of context.

Incorrect Christians used the verses as written because Jesus and God approve of slavery,  your denial demonstrates how embarrassed most Christians are at what’s actually written in the Bible , why not just accept that your moral code is based on a deeply immoral book?

My reply .....Sure here’s three

 .....Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The Permanence of Earth

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Seeing God

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

You say .....No, I do not condemn those Christians, nor do I consider them to be actual Christians. They may have called themselves Christians but based on their actions, they weren't. 

My reply ....Based on their actions they were model Christians 

You say .....I think we should discuss the reason why Slavery existed in the first place and also, the fact that it was very different from the Slavery that we think of nowadays and like what we see in movies, where people are keeping slaves because of the color of their skin. 

My reply .....No it wasn’t different it was just as cruel and brutal do you think people in the time of Jesus treated slavery gently and kindly?

By the way I never mentioned skin colour 

You say .....”Also note that the slavery regulated in the Bible had absolutely nothing to do with race, color, or ethnic background.  While it is true that certain nations, as a whole, were captured and enslaved because of their wicked, idolatrous practices, it is not true that they were enslaved due to their allegedly inferior nationality."

My reply ....There you go now justifying slavery because people were wicked so you approve of certain people being slaves after all it seems, why are you mentioning colour again?

You say ....

Can you please explain to me what this means?

My reply ....Goat herd was a common job at the time 

You say .....I do not know what any of this. Is this something from the Bible? I am not understanding?

My reply .....never mind 

You say ......It depends on what you mean by that.

My reply .....Your refusal to answer this question demonstrates you are not sure whether it’s right or wrong to own people as property and you attempt to lecture others on morality? Really?

I asked .....

 .....Is owning another human ever moral, or not?

You seriously don’t know what I mean by that , really?

Dee

@IdolRocks

You say .....
The part that you put was not the entire paragraph but only a part of it. I want to know if you read the entire paragraph or not. You took out a part and then made a comment about that part, not the entire paragraph. 

My reply .....It’s enough to know that the part I quoted states the golden rule goes back to way before the time of Jesus do you deny this? 

Dee

@IdolRocks

You use a crackpot site called “creation ministries “ to slander Wiki .....that’s hilarious.

look at this comment from your source ......

Of course, this comment betrays ignorance of the biblical account itself, since God created in 6, not 7 days. In addition, it commits the No True Scotsman fallacy in asserting that creation scientists are not ‘actual’ scientists.

IdolRocks

@Dee ;

Q: In Gen 9:25, why was Canaan and not Ham cursed? 
A: Ham learned that his descendants would be an example of sin’s consequences. The Expositor’s Bible Commentary volume 2 p.97 says that the Hebrew form of the verb is imperfect and not jussive, "so the sense is more likely that of prediction (‘He will be’) rather than a malediction (‘May he be’). 735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered p.32 says the same. Thus Noah’s words anticipate a central theme of the following narratives - separation of the chosen seed from the seed of the Canaanites". 
See Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties p.86-87, Haley’s Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible p.84-86, Today’s Handbook for Solving Bible Difficulties p.222-223, and Justin Martyr’s [wrote c.138-165 A.D.] Dialogue with Trypho chapter 139 p.268-269 for more discussion. 

http://www.biblequery.org/gen.html

I am going to respond to some of these and then I am going to be done for tonight because it is late and I need a break for the rest of the night. I will be happy to continue this conversation tomorrow. 

*Your “objective morality “ is based on nothing but your opinion of what’s written in the Bible which varies from person to person and religion to religion*

See, now that is simply not true. 

https://answersingenesis.org/morality/the-source-of-moral-absolutes/

..It depends on what you mean by that.

My reply .....Your refusal to answer this question demonstrates you are not sure whether it’s right or wrong to own people as property and you attempt to lecture others on morality? Really?

I don't see how me asking a question means I am refusing to answer the question. I asked you a simply question. How about you just provide an answer. Then I will answer the question, it is as simple as that. 

The examples in the Bible of someone owning another human . being are not wrong and I will explain why below. 

For example: some people had debt to pay off and so they would work for people in order to pay off that debt. 

https://www.compellingtruth.org/slavery-Old-Testament.html

"In an ideal world, slavery would neither be an option nor a necessity. Because of the socioeconomic situation of Old Testament Israel, God did allow slavery, but He allowed it for a simple purpose: to help the poor survive. A person could sell himself into slavery (akin to indentured servitude) in order to pay off debt or provide a basic subsistence. God did not intend for Israel to have poverty (Deuteronomy 15:4), but sin made it inevitable (Deuteronomy 15:5), and God allowed slavery to deal with that reality."

"Debtors"
"A poor man could sell himself to a richer man if there was famine and the poor man had no way to provide for himself. Or a debtor could sell himself to the one he owed money to. If the debtor owed money to several people, he could sell himself to a rich man who agreed to pay off the debts. Similarly, the head of a household could sell a family member in exchange for any of the above. Other arrangements were possible; Jacob sold himself to Laban for fourteen years to pay the bridal prices of Leah and Rachel. Some debt slaves were foreigners and lived under slightly different regulations if they were not proselytes (converted Jews)."

"Girl"s
"When a girl was sold into slavery, it was usually to marry into the family when she came of age. A father might sell a daughter to benefit the family or to improve the girl's prospects—usually, the girl married into a higher socioeconomic class. Although abuses undoubtedly occurred, the intent was to improve the girl's future. Every girl in that culture faced an arranged marriage; if she was sold, she moved into her husband's house earlier than usual and was provided for long before her wedding."

https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/slave-property

"A family member could purchase your freedom by simply paying your debt:"

"Leviticus 25:47-49"
"Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger’s family, then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, or his uncle, or his uncle’s son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him"

https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/four-differences-between-new-testament-servitude-and-new-world-slavery/

"Often, those who attack the Bible skirt the real crux of the slavery issue. They point to verses in the Old Testament that offer a particular regulation for slavery. From there, they proceed to argue that the Bible is a vile book that does not condemn, but actually condones slavery. And, they argue, since all slavery is morally wrong, the Bible must not be the product of a loving God."

"However, those who take such a position fail to consider that certain types of slavery are not morally wrong. For instance, when a man is convicted of murder, he often is sentenced to life in prison. During his life sentence, he is forced by the State to do (or not do) certain things. He is justly confined to a small living space, and his freedoms are revoked. Sometimes, he is compelled by the State to work long hours, for which he does not receive even minimum wage. Would it be justifiable to label such a loss of freedom as a type of slavery? Yes, it would. However, is his loss of freedom a morally permissible situation? Certainly. He has become a slave of the State because he violated certain laws that were designed to ensure the liberty of his fellow citizen, whom he murdered. Therefore, one fact that must be conceded by anyone dealing with the Bible and its position on slavery is the fact that, under some conditions, slavery is not necessarily a morally deplorable institution."

IdolRocks

@Dee ;

"look at this comment from your source ......"

Of course, this comment betrays ignorance of the biblical account itself, since God created in 6, not 7 days. In addition, it commits the No True Scotsman fallacy in asserting that creation scientists are not ‘actual’ scientists.



Yes and what is wrong with that comment? When Skeptics complain about Creationists not able to be real Scientists, they are committing the "No True Scotsman Fallacy", whether you like that or not, they are. 

It also points out how God created in 6 days and not 7 days, which in the thing that it is responding to, says 7 days. 

“There is zero chance that Wikipedia will ever treat pseudoscientists who believe that everything was created in 7 literal days 10,000 years ago the same way we treat the actual scientists -- astronomers, physicists, geologists, paleontologists, etc. -- who have solid evidence that the earth is much, much older.”15

So, I am not sure what the confusion is. 

The article from Wikipedia says something that we do not believe. It says that we believe God created everything in 7 days. That is wrong. That is not what the Bible says. How is Creation.com at fault when Wikipedia is the one committing the errors and making the logical fallacies

Goodnight for now!!! Talk to you tomorrow.

TKDB

People went to church last Sunday, and they'll go to church this Sunday as well.

ZeusAres42

@IdolRocks

We equivocate Relativism with Atheists since that is the only basis that they can provide for Morality. They cannot provide an Objective Basis for Morality.

Yes Morality is Objective, but as an Atheist, or as a Non-Believer, you cannot account for Objective Moral Values. So "Human Nature" is what makes Morality Objective? I am simply trying to understand how you attempt to account for Objective Morality?

These are both good points and I think I might make a debate about morality soon unless someone else beats me to it.

ZeusAres42

Anyway, bringing this topic back on point the original question was:

Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?

My answer is that firstly this a very generic rhetoric. To my understanding, there are varying interpretations of Christianity and what might be morally wrong to one person may not be to another. Further, to my understanding, there are many Christians too that think some of the stories in the Bible consisting of actions done in the name of God were ghastly immoral and rightfully so.

ethang5

@IdolRocks

No problem Idol. Good post above.

ethang5

@TKDB

>People went to church last Sunday, and they'll go to church this Sunday as well.

All over the world.

It bugs atheists to no end.

IdolRocks

@Dee ;Jesus totally approved of slavery .....

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Ephesians 6:5 is being taken out of context. That verse has an explanation. 

Q: In Eph 6:5-8, does the Bible support slavery? 
A: The Bible recognized that some Christians were slaves, and it allowed Christians to own slaves. However, it encouraged freedom for slaves in 1 Corinthians 7:21,23. See also the next question for more info. 
The Bible tolerated both a Christian being a slave, and a Christian owning a slave, since slavery was inseparable from the culture at that time. However, Christian masters were not permitted to treat slaves like non-Christian slaveholders treated slaves. In the New Testament, masters were not ever to threaten slaves (Ephesians 6:9) and masters were to treat slaves right and fair (Colossians 4:2). 

http://www.biblequery.org/eph.html

I will respond to the rest tomorrow. 

IdolRocks

@Dee ;Jesus totally approved of slavery .....

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Ephesians 6:5 is being taken out of context. That verse has an explanation. 

Q: In Eph 6:5-8, does the Bible support slavery? 
A: The Bible recognized that some Christians were slaves, and it allowed Christians to own slaves. However, it encouraged freedom for slaves in 1 Corinthians 7:21,23. See also the next question for more info. 
The Bible tolerated both a Christian being a slave, and a Christian owning a slave, since slavery was inseparable from the culture at that time. However, Christian masters were not permitted to treat slaves like non-Christian slaveholders treated slaves. In the New Testament, masters were not ever to threaten slaves (Ephesians 6:9) and masters were to treat slaves right and fair (Colossians 4:2). 

http://www.biblequery.org/eph.html

I will respond to the rest tomorrow. 

Dee

@ethang5

You say ......Do you think someone does?

My reply ....If your daughter is of legal age and wants to be someone’s sex slave good for her , if not well you will face the legal consequences won’t you?

You say .....Debate loser. 

My reply .....I agree , yes you are a debate loser 

You say .....On what moral grounds would someone restrict her? 

My reply .... I wouldn’t If she was of legal age , I would she wasn’t as that old golden rule would be my guide again in informing my decision 

You say ......The point is not whether we agree with her decision, but whether our position has any greater moral validity.

My reply ......My position is sound I treat others as I will to be treated myself 

You say .....Not the point. 

My reply ....I don’t think you even know what you’re saying now 

You say ......We know you disagree, you can stop with the self-righteousness now. 

My reply .....Very judgemental aren’t  you?

You say ....What makes your position more valid than mine? 

My reply .....But I couldn’t give a damn about your position and how moral or immoral you are , you don’t find my position more valid than yours so what?

You say ......

Can you get past your moral outrage and debate

My reply .....Yes I’m against sex slavery regarding  minors , my moral “outrage “ upsets you greatly. You dont debate , you preach 

You say .....You are an . 

My reply .... Your most used response to everyone really , I bet you went to church on Sunday and played  the part time Christian for an hour or two

You say .....To show the failing of the subjective moral system, we pick a position that is clearly against the norm. So what that you disagree with it? Morality is not determined by what you like.

My reply .....My morality is determined by how I treat others and expect to be treated myself your failure to recognize this as a perfectly reasonable position demonstrates you haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

You say ....Instead of focusing on why your position is morally more valid than mine, you want us to see your moral outrage.

My reply .....My moral outrage ? Oh you mean like when you ask my my response to making one’s own daughter a sex slave and I answer my answer now turns into “moral outrage”?

You say .....But just as I keep saying, the only reason you consider your self-proclaimed "golden rule" moral, is because you just like it. Nothing else.

My reply .....A typically response from you which in actual fact is your position not mine , your morality is informed by your choice of religious beliefs because you like your religious beliefs compared to others ,if that’s not true why are you not a Muslim? .......Because you like your religion more than theirs don’t you.

I use the golden rule as my basis for morality as it’s perfectly logical and fair , you on the other hand pick your religion to suit your likes regards mora

You say ......Morality is not based on your personal tastes.

My reply .....I know , but yours is 

Dee

@IdolRocks

I said .......Your “objective morality “ is based on nothing but your opinion of what’s written in the Bible which varies from person to person and religion to religion

Your replied ......See, now that is simply not true. 

My reply ......So Why are there 30, 000 and counting denominations of Christianity all based on what they individually think is written in the Bible 

https://answersingenesis.org/morality/the-source-of-moral-absolutes/

Regarding objective morality, if god can change morally objective facts they’re not objective  , if he cannot he’s not all powerful .....which is it?

You say .....It depends on what you mean by that

I don't see how me asking a question means I am refusing to answer the question. 

My reply ..... You know exactly what I mean as I asked my question straight away in our very first exchange,  your refusal to answer clearly demonstrates you’re not sure how to respond as you cannot morally defend slavery therefore you cannot defend your god

I’ve answered your question regards my morality several times but you want me to give an answer that suits you , that’s not how Debate works 

You say .......I asked you a simply question. How about you just provide an answer. Then I will answer the question, it is as simple as that. 

My reply ......I answered all your questions I think you are accusing me of exactly what you’re doing as in refusing to answer my question 

You say .....The examples in the Bible of someone owning another human . being are not wrong and I will explain why below. 

For example: some people had debt to pay off and so they would work for people in order to pay off that debt. 

https://www.compellingtruth.org/slavery-Old-Testament.html

"In an ideal world, slavery would neither be an option nor a necessity. Because of the socioeconomic situation of Old Testament Israel, God did allow slavery, but He allowed it for a simple purpose: to help the poor survive

My reply .....So god did allow slavery after all , so god allowed people to be owned as property to help them survive , really? 

Why not give them a job?  The source of your objective morality allows people to be the property of others and to make women sex slaves ...wow 

. You say .....A person could sell himself into slavery (akin to indentured servitude) in order to pay off debt or provide a basic subsistence. God did not intend for Israel to have poverty (Deuteronomy 15:4), but sin made it inevitable (Deuteronomy 15:5), and God allowed slavery to deal with that reality."

My reply .....To call slavery “indentured servitude “ is absurd , tell me why were you saying slavery was wrong then when Christian slave owners had slaves on their plantations?

A fair amount of slaves came from countries that had desperate poverty and disease so were the American slave owners not good Christians for following gods plan regards slavery?

You say ......Often, those who attack the Bible skirt the real crux of the slavery issue. They point to verses in the Old Testament that offer a particular regulation for slavery. From there, they proceed to argue that the Bible is a vile book that does not condemn, but actually condones slavery. And, they argue, since all slavery is morally wrong, the Bible must not be the product of a loving God."

"However, those who take such a position fail to consider that certain types of slavery are not morally wrong. For instance, when a man is convicted of murder, he often is sentenced to life in prison. During his life sentence, he is forced by the State to do (or not do) certain things. He is justly confined to a small living space, and his freedoms are revoked. Sometimes, he is compelled by the State to work long hours, for which he does not receive even minimum wage. Would it be justifiable to label such a loss of freedom as a type of slavery? Yes, it would. 

My reply .....No it wouldn’t , a prisoner has broken the law of the land , a slave is taken or captured to be sold to someone as property , you agree with this now after disagreeing with it yesterday , so you support slavery

You say .....Therefore, one fact that must be conceded by anyone dealing with the Bible and its position on slavery is the fact that, under some conditions, slavery is not necessarily a morally deplorable institution."

My reply ....Slavery is not as I’ve demonstrated imprisonment for breaking the law , I know you support biblical slavery and you’re using the very same arguments as plantation owners from the Deep South who you claimed were not “ real Christians” you’ve actually come full circle by squarely supporting slavery by using plantation owners arguments to brand yourself not a “real Christian”

IdolRocks

@ethang5 Thank you!!

Sand

#1 This question is completely flawed.

>>>Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?

 

About 81% of the world owns a Bible

The Bible has affected everyone!

 

So everyone learned their morality from the Bible.

The fact that this question asks about the immorality of God depicted in the Bible, suggests that the speaker has a higher moral standard.

You can read between the lines and see that the speaker of the question has a lower moral standard and they want the moral standard of the Bible to be thrown out.

 

The speaker must associate with a lot of Christians. Because they are very unhappy with their friends holding them to Bible moral standards. But instead of getting new associates, they want to Judge God as ‘immoral’ and put pressure on these friends to break these moral standards.

Here is the problem with that.

Everyone knows, when you own a Business, you do not have to adhere to the rules you set. You don’t have to come in at a set time period. You do not have to dress in an outfit. When you own a product, you do not have to treat the product according to the standards you set for others to use it.

God does not have to adhere to the moral standards he set for other people to adhere to. But amazingly he does adhere to them!

Lets look at the standards you are speaking about.

 

#2 Slavery

People already had slaves and were getting slaves. God gave them guidelines to deal with the slaves justfully.

Slavery in the Bible times is different from our times.

Slavery in the Bible was equal to employment. (Was it exactly like employment....NO! Just like employment in one country is different in another.)

Slaves in the Bible got paid and received a portion of the Business when the Master died. Not everyone wanted to be a Master. Which required a lot of financial pressure. Just like today, not everyone wants to live off of their own work, otherwise everyone would be in sales. Everyone would own their own business. Most people like to “work for someone”during the Bible times they were call “slaves”,now they are called “employees”. Women and Men could get businesses, Proverbs 31 shows that. But the thinking of that day was not typical as it is today.

 

Modern slavery is a term used to mean someone is forced to do something.

Whipping, abusing, even killing. But that is because people did not adhere to the moral standards outlined in the Bible. (Which is what the speaker of this question wants. Why? For motivations other than the topic they are speaking about. So the speaker of this question is the cause of their own problem.)

 

Jesus speaks of a slave about to be fired. How can a slave be fired? Jesus talks about a slave who controls all the finances in the household. Is this really a slave?

 

#3 Killing

If you kill someone as a citizen of some government. You will suffer the penalty of that government. But if that same government kills someone they do not suffer any penalties. God is to the government as the government is to you.

God can kill whoever he wants to and still be moral!

Here is the reasons why:

#1 He can see exact details to Judge them perfectly

#2 He gives the life to everyone and everything

#3 He created the highest moral guidelines that affected everyone

(Until you are able to make life yourself and have demonstrative proof that God did not give life, people will adhere to these morals)

 

It does not mean you have to adhere to these morals

Just get different friends! Please get different friends.

TKDB

Went to church this past Mother's Day Sunday, and none of the parishioners, nor I, was asked by anyone who's anti religious this very question? 

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?"

Now one could imagine, that if an anti religious individual, went to a physically existing religious building, and posed the above question, to some of the adult parishioners, or the preacher, minister, priest, or what have you, couldn't the above question, be answered in a fair and equal light, at a religious building, verses on the internet?

ethang5

@Dee

Do you think someone does?

>If your daughter is of legal age and wants to be someone’s sex slave good for her,

Do you think no one should. Yet you call it immoral.

>If not well you will face the legal consequences won’t you?

You didn't answer my question. Your morality could not address a real world test.

Debate loser. 

>I agree , yes you are a debate loser 

Lol, if you could debate, you wouldn't need snark.

On what moral grounds would someone restrict her? 

>I wouldn’t If she was of legal age, I would she wasn’t as that old golden rule would be my guide again in informing my decision 

But your guide is not her guide or mine, what gives you the moral right to impose your guide on others?

The point is not whether we agree with her decision, but whether our position has any greater moral validity.

>My position is sound I treat others as I will to be treated myself

You aren't being asked about soundness. You are being asked about moral legitimacy. Your position has none.

>I don’t think you even know what you’re saying now 

If that were true, you wouldn't be dodging addressing the point right now.

We know you disagree, you can stop with the self-righteousness now. 

>Very judgemental aren’t  you?

Your personal opinion. It can be dismissed.

What makes your position more valid than mine? 

>But I couldn’t give a damn about your position and how moral or immoral you are , you don’t find my position more valid than yours so what?

Then your moral judgements of me or God is nonsense. It isn't morality, it's just your opinion. Therefore, the question in the thread you are backing is nonsense,

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian God as depicted in the bible."

Who made it "immorality"? And you thinking it immoral means nothing. Its just your opinion. This is what the Christian position is getting at, and what you totally miss in your PC belief that your "moral guide" is sound

Can you get past your moral outrage and debate

>Yes I’m against sex slavery regarding  minors , my moral “outrage “ upsets you greatly.

Telling me what you are against is not debate. Telling me why those things are immoral is. You have not once debated.

 >You dont debate , you preach 

If asking you question you find uncomfortable, then I stand accused. Debate is we ask each other questions and we answer.

You are an . 

My reply .... Your most used response to everyone really, 

Just you dee dee. No one else has fake quotes, sockpuppets, or lied outright in posts to me.

>I bet you went to church on Sunday and played  the part time Christian for an hour or two

There goes the PC moral outrage again. That, my logic challenged friend, is preaching.

The point here is not how good a Christian you think I am. But how valid is your moral code is to judge others. It isn't.

To show the failing of the subjective moral system, we pick a position that is clearly against the norm. So what that you disagree with it? Morality is not determined by what you like.

My morality is determined by how I treat others and expect to be treated myself 

Everyone has something that determines their morality. The question is not WHAT determines your morality. The question is what makes any morality different, or better, or more moral than any other. Why can you not understand that?

>your failure to recognize this as a perfectly reasonable position demonstrates you haven’t a clue what you’re on about.

I recognize it genius, I'm asking you what makes it better than any other morality? That you can't answer is telling.

Instead of focusing on why your position is morally more valid than mine, you want us to see your moral outrage.

My moral outrage ? Oh you mean like when you ask my my response to making one’s own daughter a sex slave and I answer my answer now turns into “moral outrage”?

I did not ask your response to making my daughter a sex slave, I asked on what moral ground would you denounce that. Morality is not based on your outrage. That you don't like it means nothing morally.

But just as I keep saying, the only reason you consider your self-proclaimed "golden rule" moral, is because you just like it. Nothing else.

>A typically response from you which in actual fact is your position not mine, 

But you cannot say why its . Debate, don't preach.

>your morality is informed by your choice of religious beliefs because you like your religious beliefs compared to others,

Untrue. You don't know what informs my morality. Do you think any Christian "likes" being restricted from sex? Told to be kind even to morons? I chose Christ before I knew his morality. And that morality precedes me by more than 6,000 years.

>if that’s not true why are you not a Muslim? .......Because you like your religion more than theirs don’t you.

That is idiotic. I don't even really know their morality. I am not a Muslim for the same reason I am not an atheist. Those beliefs simply do not make sense. What I like has nothing to do with it.

>I use the golden rule as my basis for morality as it’s perfectly logical and fair, 

OK, but it isn't moral, its your opinion. Morality is not some random guide you pick because you personally like it.

>you on the other hand pick your religion to suit your likes regards morality.

Untrue. The morality I follow preceded me, I chose Christianity because it was rational and true. I learned of it's morality over a long period after my conversion, and I had to subjugate my will to God's morality every time I found my desires contradicted His morality

Morality is not based on your personal tastes.

>I know..... 

Then your golden rule choice is nonsense as a morality you use to judge others.

>but yours is

Making uninformed guesses about my motivation is not debate or evidence.

Back your claim with facts or they will get dismissed. Main while, I consider my point demonstrated.

Dee

@ethang5

The debate topic has you in a right old quandary doesn’t it? 

Here is the question the debate is actually asking as opposed to what you think it asks .........

Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian God as depicted in the bible."

You say .......Who made it "immorality"? And you thinking it immoral means nothing. Its just your opinion. This is what the Christian position is getting at, and what you totally miss in your PC belief that your "moral guide" is sound

My reply .......

Who made it immoral? Well god did according to Christians and me thinking it immoral is based on his actions and words according to what Christianity states,  I’m judging god not by my standards but by the standards he supposedly sets himself and Christians use to judge others.

 Slavery , slaughter , pestilence and disease are all fine once god is doing it as he is the source of all morality , yet I note that every Christian will defend god by attempting to justify his actions why do you defend the immorality of the Christian god? It’s just your opinion he’s moral

So can you attempt to stop fleeing from the debate topics direct challenge and attempt a defense? 

If you’re good I may continue your education and that of your sock puppets as your idiocy is embarrassing 

Dee

@Sand

 

You say ......About 81% of the world owns a Bible

My reply .....It makes useful fuel for a fire in an emergency 

You say .....The Bible has affected everyone!

My reply ......Yes , it’s words have been responsible for the deaths , demonization and destruction of others 

 

You say ....So everyone learned their morality from the Bible.

My reply .....Incorrect , I would say a “Christian “needs a bible in an attempt to justify immorality 

You say .....The fact that this question asks about the immorality of God depicted in the Bible, suggests that the speaker has a higher moral standard.

My reply .....I’m guilty as charged as I don’t think it moral to slaughter over 20 million of my subjects 

You say .....You can read between the lines and see that the speaker of the question has a lower moral standard and they want the moral standard of the Bible to be thrown out.

My reply .....Read above 

  

You say ...... speaker must associate with a lot of Christians. Because they are very unhappy with their friends holding them to Bible moral standards. But instead of getting new associates, they want to Judge God as ‘immoral’ and put pressure on these friends to break these moral standards.

Here is the problem with that.

Everyone knows, when you own a Business, you do not have to adhere to the rules you set. You don’t have to come in at a set time period. You do not have to dress in an outfit. When you own a product, you do not have to treat the product according to the standards you set for others to use it.

God does not have to adhere to the moral standards he set for other people to adhere to. But amazingly he does adhere to them!

My reply .....Sounds like a tyrant .....oh wait .......

You say ......2Slavery

People already had slaves and were getting slaves. God gave them guidelines to deal with the slaves justfully. 

Slavery in the Bible times is different from our times.

Slavery in the Bible was equal to employment. (Was it exactly like employment....NO! Just like employment in one country is different in another.)

Slaves in the Bible got paid and received a portion of the Business when the Master died. Not everyone wanted to be a Master. Which required a lot of financial pressure. Just like today, not everyone wants to live off of their own work, otherwise everyone would be in sales. Everyone would own their own business. Most people like to “work for someone”during the Bible times they were call “slaves”,now they are called “employees”. Women and Men could get businesses, Proverbs 31 shows that. But the thinking of that day was not typical as it is today. 

 

Modern slavery is a term used to mean someone is forced to do something.

Whipping, abusing, even killing. But that is because people did not adhere to the moral standards outlined in the Bible. (Which is what the speaker of this question wants. Why? For motivations other than the topic they are speaking about. So the speaker of this question is the cause of their own problem.)

 

Jesus speaks of a slave about to be fired. How can a slave be fired? Jesus talks about a slave who controls all the finances in the household. Is this really a slave?

My reply .....Right so Slavery was really employment !! Stop being so ridiculous you need to read your Bible , try looking up sex slaves in the Bible no doubt that’s employment also?

 

You say ......Killing

If you kill someone as a citizen of some government. You will suffer the penalty of that government. But if that same government kills someone they do not suffer any penalties. God is to the government as the government is to you.

God can kill whoever he wants to and still be moral!

Here is the reasons why:

#1He can see exact details to Judge them perfectly

#2He gives the life to everyone and everything

#3He created the highest moral guidelines that affected everyone

(Until you are able to make life yourself and have demonstrative proof that God did not give life, people will adhere to these morals)

 

It does not mean you have to adhere to these morals

Just get different friends! Please get different friends.

My reply .....Yes God kills twenty million in the Bible he’s on a par with Hitler and Stalin ......I think it’s you need new friends buddy 

ethang5

@Dee

>The debate topic has you in a right old quandary doesn’t it? 

Debate, don't insinuate. Your opinions are not fact or pertinent to our subject.

>Here is the question the debate is actually asking as opposed to what you think it asks .........

>Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian God as depicted in the bible."

Who made it "immorality"? And you thinking it immoral means nothing. Its just your opinion. This is what the Christian position is getting at, and what you totally miss in your PC belief that your "moral guide" is sound

>Who made it immoral? Well god did according to Christians

Untrue. But we are asking for the "according" to YOU. We know what we believe. You seem not to know why the things you think are immoral, are actually immoral.

>...and me thinking it immoral is based on his actions and words according to what Christianity states,  

Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

>I’m judging god not by my standards but by the standards he supposedly sets himself and Christians use to judge others.

I am asking for your morality and you are giving me what you think is God's morality. Do you have a morality?

>Slavery , slaughter , pestilence and disease are all fine once god is doing it as he is the source of all morality,

Not our topic. Tell me why is slavery, slaughter, and pestilence immoral. I don't care about your bias against God. I am asking why your morality calls, for example, murder immoral.

>yet I note that every Christian will defend god by attempting to justify his actions why do you defend the immorality of the Christian god?

Our point is that you are being illogical. You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

>It’s just your opinion he’s moral

God's morality has nothing to do with my opinion, and He would be moral regardless of my opinion. But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

>So can you attempt to stop fleeing from the debate topics direct challenge and attempt a defense?

I need no defense. Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion. Just as your claim that God is immoral is just your subjective opinion. It can be dismissed offhand.

You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God.

You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority. If you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

>If you’re good I may continue your education and that of your sock puppets as your idiocy is embarrassing

I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.

ZeusAres42

It's not possible to define or measure the morality of something that is not falsifiable.

TKDB

@Dee

Are you an attention seeker?

Thus, using the internet to gain that attention with? 

Dee

@TKDB

Are you an attention seeker?

You seem to be using the internet to gain attention with 

ZeusAres42

@Dee

 
What is your position in this debate again?

Dee

@ZeusAres42

I’m asking theists to defend the immorality of the biblical god ,  the theists on here say I have no right to do so as I’m doing it by my moral standards which to them have no validity, this is nonsense and a red herring as I’m judging their god by his standards which he has laid down in his own words 

Dee

@ethang5

You say ....Debate, don't insinuate. Your opinions are not fact or pertinent to our subject.

My reply .....You should debate not insinuate. Your opinions on my facts are not pertinent to our subject 

You say .....Untrue. But we are asking for the "according" to YOU. We know what we believe. You seem not to know why the things you think are immoral, are actually immoral.

My reply .....By you asserting “untrue” is a typical bullying response from you 

.It’s not according to me I judge your god I do so by his words and  teachings in which he says one thing and does another 

You say .....Nonsense. You do not have Christian morality. You use your own, and your coyness here is telling.

My reply .....Nonsense. I don’t need “Christian morality “as  it’s based on the contradictory words of an unproven 

You say ........I am asking for your morality and you are giving me what you think is God's morality. 

My reply .....I’m not here to answer questions on my morality as the question is regarding gods morality , you think you know what’s gods morality is and so do 

You say .....Do you have a morality?

My reply .....I’ve answered this several 100 times now , try and keep up 

You say .....Not our topic. 

My reply .....Our topic? Who’s our?

You say ......Tell me why is slavery, slaughter, and pestilence immoral. 

My reply ......But what I think is immaterial on the subject , I’m asking you to justify how your god claims to be all loving god and the source of morality and Jesus talks repeatedly about what is right and wrong, yet god breaks every so called moral ruling put down by himself .

I’m judging your god the exact same way Christians judge others by using his moral god as put forward by the teaching of Jesus , you do something similar or is there a different way you deem actions moral or immoral?

You say .....I don't care about your bias against God. I am asking why your morality calls, for example, murder immoral.

My reply ?.....I don’t care about your bias against reason. My morality is immaterial to the question in hand as I’m making my judgement on god using the teachings of Jesus  

You say .....Our point is that you are being illogical. 

My reply ......You mean you and your sock  puppets? Logic and you are not compatible 

You say .....You have no morality and thus cannot judge God.

My reply ......I don’t need morality to judge god , I’ve let Jesus and his words judge him , he’s immoral using his own words from the Bible to condemn him , the same words from the Bible also demonstrates your immorality 

You say .....God's morality has nothing to do with my opinion, and He would be moral regardless of my opinion. 

My reply ......Gods immorality has nothing to do with your opinion ,and he would be immoral regardless of your opinion 

You say .....But unlike you, I can answer the question why murder is immoral.

My reply ......

But the debate is not about my moral code but gods or lack off , your constant diversionary tactics are merely your attempt to avoid defeat .......again

So can I but unlike you I’ve answered the question over a 100 times you still refuse to do so and I wager will not do anytime in the future 

You say ......I need no defense. Just as when some Muslim tells me that American girls are whores because they go uncovered. It is not morality, it is just his opinion. 

My reply ......Yes it’s his opinion, just as when a Christian states abortion is a sin it’s not morality , it’s their opinion 

You say .....Just as your claim that God is immoral is just your subjective opinion. It can be dismissed offhand.

My reply .....Just as you claim god is moral is just your subjective opinion.It can be dismissed offhand.

You say ......You don't want to debate whether God is moral or not, you want us to begin as if your inane opinion is already fact, because you cannot convict God.

My reply .....I’ve destroyed you again in debate your pathetic “red herring “ , insult and illogical rants prove how upset you are 

You say .....You cannot convict because your morality carries no weight, no authority. If you were using God's morality, you would not have to dance around questions.

My reply .....But I’ve used the words and teachings from your sacred book to convict him ......surely you really mean gods immorality?

How do you know god is moral?

You say .....I don't care how embarrassed you get. It is clear that you are vacuous. All you want is a soapbox on which rant against God.

My reply .....Yes I’m embarrassed for you watching you struggle in an attempt to  look the big “hard man “ , why not try debating?

You say .....You cannot state what you believe, you cannot tell us why your morality judges some things immoral, and you will play obtuse with questions.

My reply .....My morality is not the debate topic Doofus it’s gods morality is on trial 

You say .....I can dismiss you as an empty moron seething with irrational hatred of God. You idiots are a dime a dozen on the net.

My reply ......Translation......You’re beaten yet again

IdolRocks

@Dee "you use a crackpot site called “creation ministries “ to slander Wiki .....that’s hilarious."

Okay, that is nothing but an ad-hominem fallacy. Here is an idea: how about you read the article and then we can discuss what it says? If you are just going to complain about the websites that I use because you are too scared to read what they have to say, then I am not going to waste my time. If you want to have an actual conversation, then please, read the article and let's talk about what it says. The article I sited specifically points out where Wikipedia lies and that what is says it wrong and then it explains why it is wrong. 

IdolRocks

@Dee ;

My reply .....Right so Slavery was really employment !! Stop being so ridiculous you need to read your Bible , try looking up sex slaves in the Bible no doubt that’s employment also?

Can you please tell me which verses you are referring to?

IdolRocks

@Dee

I’m guilty as charged as I don’t think it moral to slaughter over 20 million of my subjects 

Okay, well, that is a nice opinion, but is simply nothing but your opinion. 

IdolRocks

@Dee ;

No, I do not condemn those Christians, nor do I consider them to be actual Christians. They may have called themselves Christians but based on their actions, they weren't. 

My reply ....Based on their actions they were model Christians 

Can you please remind me what actions we are speaking of? 

IdolRocks

@Dee

And for the first one:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

http://apologeticspress.org/AllegedDiscrepancies.aspx?article=1276&b=Exodus

http://www.biblequery.org/ex.html

http://www.biblequery.org/rom.html

Just go to the specific Bible verse for the two links again.

IdolRocks

@Dee

Regarding objective morality, if god can change morally objective facts they’re not objective  , if he cannot he’s not all powerful .....which is it?

I am not understanding what you are saying here. 

But this article may or may not be relevant:

https://carm.org/god-does-not-change-why-do-his-moral-laws-change

If He cannot what?

Dee

@IdolRocks

If god cannot change objective moral facts they’re not objective , if he cannot he’s not all powerful, so which is it?

Dee

@IdolRocks

I don’t know what this is in relation to , why do you post all your answers separately and why do you not link what I’ve said to each point?

Dee

@IdolRocks

You say .....No, I do not condemn those Christians, nor do I consider them to be actual Christians. They may have called themselves Christians but based on their actions, they weren't. 

My reply .....But of course they were Christians the Bible tells how one is to treat his slaves even Jesus said slaves should obey their masters do you deny this 

You say .....Can you please remind me what actions we are speaking of? 

My reply .....Slavery 

Dee

@IdolRocks

I said ......I’m guilty as charged as I don’t think it moral to slaughter over 20 million of my subjects 

You replied .....Okay, well, that is a nice opinion, but is simply nothing but your opinion

My reply ......

You see that’s the difference with you and me I can tell what’s right and wrong you on the other hand think it’s up to god to decide , if it’s up to god to decide then for god himself there is no difference and you can no longer claim god is good  

Dee

@IdolRocks

You say .....Can you please tell me which verses you are referring to?

My reply .....You still refuse to answer my question which I’ve asked 7 times now .....Is it morally right to own another human as property?

I bet you will refuse to answer yet again , I’ve answered everyone of your questions , why can you not answer this simple question? 

Here you go sex slavery plain and simple .....

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Dee

@IdolRocks

You say .....Okay, that is nothing but an ad-hominem fallacy. 

My reply .....It’s not , what I state is actually pretty fair the founder of this nonsensical ministry is the crackpot Ken Ham who is an without equal and who’s ignorance on most matters scientific is hilarious......

Creation Ministries International(CMI), formerly known as Answers in Genesis - Australiaand Creation Science Foundation, is the estranged, but equally scientifically fraudulent cousin of Ken Ham's infamous Answers in Genesis.

You say ....Here is an idea: how about you read the article and then we can discuss what it says? 

My reply ....I don’t read gibberish 

You say ...If you are just going to complain about the websites that I use because you are too scared to read what they have to say, then I am not going to waste my time. 

My reply .....Why would I read what’s regarded amongst rational beings a site populated by religious lunatics who believed in a 10,000 year old earth? 

Also read this .....the other hand, CMI publishes Alien Intrusion, UFOs and the Evolution Connection, the author of which featured on Coast to Coast AM. The description of the interviews says that "aliens are actually fallen angels who are not extraterrestrialin nature, but rather interdimensional. ... He noted that some people had been able to stop alien abductionsfrom taking place ... by invoking the name of Christ. He suggested that this lends credence to the idea that the aliens are demonicin nature, and thus susceptible to invocations that run counter to them."

You seriously want me tread gibberish from an organization that believes that ? 

If you cannot handle the truth find a new hobby if you feel like you’re wasting your time , fine , I accept your withdrawal and capitulation 

You say .....If you want to have an actual conversation, then please, read the article and let's talk about what it says. The article I sited specifically points out where Wikipedia lies and that what is says it wrong and then it explains why it is wrong. 

My reply .....So a crackpot site that believes aliens are fallen  angels  says Wiki is lying and I should believe them why?

IdolRocks

@Dee Going to bed now. Talk to you tomorrow.

Dee

@IdolRocks

Ok , thanks talk soon 

TKDB

@Dee

"Are you an attention seeker?

You seem to be using the internet to gain attention with."

Nope, I'm pro kid, child, pro family, pro public, and pro athiest, pro theist, and pro religion.

Some of the anti religious, are good at using the internet to discriminate against religious individuals with.

Isn't that kind discrimination immoral? 

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?"

Dee

@TKDB

You say .....

Some of the anti religious, are good at using the internet to discriminate against religious individuals with.

My reply ......Well take it up with them then 

You say .....Isn't that kind discrimination immoral? 

My reply .....Ask those doing it 

See that ........ It’s called a debate topic if you cannot debate maybe get a new hobby ........

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible ?"

TKDB

@Dee

"Why do Christians defend the immorality of the Christian god as depicted in the Bible?"

Why not go to a religious building, and ask the parishioners, or the minister, preacher, priest, or rabbi, in person, the above question, instead of posing the question on the internet?

It's similar to this posed question, posed by an atheist on the internet as well:

"There is no God. Here is why."

"See that ........ It’s called a debate topic if you cannot debate maybe get a new hobby."

Dee

@TKDB

You say ......Why not go to a religious building, and ask the parishioners, or the minister, preacher, priest, or rabbi, in person, the above question, instead of posing the question on the internet?

My reply .......Because this is a ......debate site . I’m allowed post questions on a debate site , I know this has come as a terrible shock to you 

You say .....It's similar to this posed question, posed by an atheist on the internet as well:

"There is no God. Here is why."**

My reply .......Who said that? 

TKDB

@Dee

"My reply .......Because this is a ......debate site . I’m allowed post questions on a debate site , I know this has come as a terrible shock to you."

A shocker, is an anti religious talking head making unfounded, and opinion filled claims, that any parent or parents, who are teaching their kids about religion, and that that action, should be viewed as child abuse?

And my response to that talking head is this:

Then go to the Police, and file a complaint against any parent, or parents, who have, and are teaching kids their kids about religion, and see what the Police say to any anti religious talking head, who's pushing an individual anti religious opinion as a legitimate, or real world fact, and see if any law enforcement agency, doesn't agree with the anti religious talking head, in making such a complaint against a religious parent, or parents, and see if the Police file that complaint, and go arrest that parent, or parents for child abuse, via teaching their kids about religion?

The above would be a shock, to see that hypothetical situation, become a reality?

Or file a complaint, with CPS, Child Protective Services? 

The above would be a shock as well.

@Dee

You say .....It's similar to this posed question, posed by an atheist on the internet as well: 

"There is no God. Here is why."**

"My reply .......Who said that?"

(SemiSteve,) from another debate website.

ZeusAres42

@TKDB

So, why do you think it is that you have so much antipathy towards those that do not follow a religion?

Dee

@TKDB

You seem to have a detestation for debate instead you go off on yet another rant to express your bizarre views , I dismiss what you say as gibberish possibly due to your drink problem , I predict any future postings from you will be equally void of implication so don’t bother posting 

TKDB

@Dee

Your vain attitude is showing.

I don't drink, and second of all, I don't live my life, according to how you think, so you can apply your imagined words towards someone, who rightfully deserves them?

"You seem to have a detestation for debate instead you go off on yet another rant to express your bizarre views , I dismiss what you say as gibberish possibly due to your drink problem , I predict any future postings from you will be equally void of implication so don’t bother posting"